NPR

Glaston wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:07 pm What is the dividing line?

Historical culture , how far back can you go without offending some one?

More modern cultures, are only relatively successful ones useable?
Why is Viking/Celtic/Irish OK but not American Indian?

When will we deem inappropriate, useage of animal logos especially if they are endangered?

There are no Tigers in Leicester or Sharks in Sale or Bears in Bristol.

I do admit I have always found the Exeter stuff a bit cringy.

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:16 pm. if they ask you to stop doing something that is easy for you to give up, why wouldn't you?

assfly wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:32 pm

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:16 pm. if they ask you to stop doing something that is easy for you to give up, why wouldn't you?

Because that's not how the world works?

Glaston wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:07 pm What is the dividing line?

Historical culture , how far back can you go without offending some one?

More modern cultures, are only relatively successful ones useable?
Why is Viking/Celtic/Irish OK but not American Indian?



When will we deem inappropriate, useage of animal logos especially if they are endangered?

There are no Tigers in Leicester or Sharks in Sale or Bears in Bristol.





I do admit I have always found the Exeter stuff a bit cringy.

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:41 pm

It's not hard. Are you doing it to someone who suffers discrimination, oppression or some other disadvantage due to their race / ethnicity?

There's not really any discrimination against Vikings in today's society.

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:43 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:41 pm

It's not hard. Are you doing it to someone who suffers discrimination, oppression or some other disadvantage due to their race / ethnicity?

There's not really any discrimination against Vikings in today's society.

But the Celts still get it hard?

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:43 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:41 pm

It's not hard. Are you doing it to someone who suffers discrimination, oppression or some other disadvantage due to their race / ethnicity?

There's not really any discrimination against Vikings in today's society.

But the Celts still get it hard?

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:44 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:43 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:41 pm

It's not hard. Are you doing it to someone who suffers discrimination, oppression or some other disadvantage due to their race / ethnicity?

There's not really any discrimination against Vikings in today's society.

But the Celts still get it hard?

Yeah baby!

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:06 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:44 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:43 pm

But the Celts still get it hard?

Yeah baby!

Austin Powers? Probably less offensive as an English character than the idea Shrek has a Scottish accent, but dangerous territory either way

Glaston wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:07 pm What is the dividing line?

Historical culture , how far back can you go without offending some one?

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:45 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:06 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:44 pm

Yeah baby!

Austin Powers? Probably less offensive as an English character than the idea Shrek has a Scottish accent, but dangerous territory either way

I in no way see it as offensive. I'd argue it's more offensive that every fictional character has American or English accents.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:01 pm

Glaston wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:07 pm What is the dividing line?

Historical culture , how far back can you go without offending some one?

Aye, at what point do the Highlanders become offensive?

Un Pilier wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:49 pm

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:45 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:06 pm

Austin Powers? Probably less offensive as an English character than the idea Shrek has a Scottish accent, but dangerous territory either way

I in no way see it as offensive. I'd argue it's more offensive that every fictional character has American or English accents.

I think I must be missing something here? You can’t really be saying every fictional character has an American or English Accent can you?

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:19 pm

Un Pilier wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:49 pm

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:45 pm
I in no way see it as offensive. I'd argue it's more offensive that every fictional character has American or English accents.

I think I must be missing something here? You can’t really be saying every fictional character has an American or English Accent can you?

No. I'm saying it would be offensive if they did. R&C us saying Shrek is potentially offensive.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:19 pm

Un Pilier wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:49 pm

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:45 pm
I in no way see it as offensive. I'd argue it's more offensive that every fictional character has American or English accents.

I think I must be missing something here? You can’t really be saying every fictional character has an American or English Accent can you?

No. I'm saying it would be offensive if they did. R&C us saying Shrek is potentially offensive.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:01 pm
Aye, at what point do the Highlanders become offensive?

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:15 am

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:01 pm
Aye, at what point do the Highlanders become offensive?

When living, real life highlanders clearly, sincerely explain why the use of the image is offensive to them. You know. The way Native Americans have.

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:15 am

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:01 pm
Aye, at what point do the Highlanders become offensive?

When living, real life highlanders clearly, sincerely explain why the use of the image is offensive to them. You know. The way Native Americans have.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:04 pm

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:15 am

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:01 pm
Aye, at what point do the Highlanders become offensive?

When living, real life highlanders clearly, sincerely explain why the use of the image is offensive to them. You know. The way Native Americans have.

Well that was a rather childish post in what has been a decent thread from what I've read.

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:06 am

Jock42 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:04 pm

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:15 am

When living, real life highlanders clearly, sincerely explain why the use of the image is offensive to them. You know. The way Native Americans have.

Well that was a rather childish post in what has been a decent thread from what I've read.

I find it odd that you're taking issue with my response to your post. You gave a red herring argument and I replied with some light sarcasm.

Perhaps we're misunderstanding each other. To clarify: Native American people have complained about sports teams using them as an image. Nobody has taken issue with the Highlanders' name and imagery. Your post seemed to be trying to suggest an equivalence that just isn't there.

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:13 pm
All jokes about the English are offensive and must stop now, they are sincerely and deeply hurtful.

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:23 am The Highlanders rugby team has a connection to the Scottish Highlands. Many of the early settlers in the Otago region were from Scotland in general and the highlands in particular. The name "Dunedin" is the Gaelic word for "Edinburgh".

This is in contrast to the Exeter Chiefs who have no connection to indigenous American peoples.

This connection would still not justify the Highlanders rugby team using the name if there were systematically oppressed people in the Highlands today asking for the rugby team not to use their name and culture.

As far as I know, no such movement exists.

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:23 am The Highlanders rugby team has a connection to the Scottish Highlands. Many of the early settlers in the Otago region were from Scotland in general and the highlands in particular. The name "Dunedin" is the Gaelic word for "Edinburgh".

This is in contrast to the Exeter Chiefs who have no connection to indigenous American peoples.

This connection would still not justify the Highlanders rugby team using the name if there were systematically oppressed people in the Highlands today asking for the rugby team not to use their name and culture.

As far as I know, no such movement exists.

ASMO wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:53 am

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:23 am The Highlanders rugby team has a connection to the Scottish Highlands. Many of the early settlers in the Otago region were from Scotland in general and the highlands in particular. The name "Dunedin" is the Gaelic word for "Edinburgh".

This is in contrast to the Exeter Chiefs who have no connection to indigenous American peoples.

This connection would still not justify the Highlanders rugby team using the name if there were systematically oppressed people in the Highlands today asking for the rugby team not to use their name and culture.

As far as I know, no such movement exists.

You might want to look up the Highland Clearances

https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/H ... learances/

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:29 am

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:13 pm
All jokes about the English are offensive and must stop now, they are sincerely and deeply hurtful.

The reason indigenous people need to be treated with particular sensitivity is that they have endured the effects of colonialism. I think the general consensus is that the English haven't suffered too badly through the whole colonial process.

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:23 am The Highlanders rugby team has a connection to the Scottish Highlands. Many of the early settlers in the Otago region were from Scotland in general and the highlands in particular. The name "Dunedin" is the Gaelic word for "Edinburgh".

This is in contrast to the Exeter Chiefs who have no connection to indigenous American peoples.

This connection would still not justify the Highlanders rugby team using the name if there were systematically oppressed people in the Highlands today asking for the rugby team not to use their name and culture.

As far as I know, no such movement exists.

So because we have to go back further for the many, many invasions of England we treat people unequally?

Slick wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:18 pm

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:23 am The Highlanders rugby team has a connection to the Scottish Highlands. Many of the early settlers in the Otago region were from Scotland in general and the highlands in particular. The name "Dunedin" is the Gaelic word for "Edinburgh".

This is in contrast to the Exeter Chiefs who have no connection to indigenous American peoples.

This connection would still not justify the Highlanders rugby team using the name if there were systematically oppressed people in the Highlands today asking for the rugby team not to use their name and culture.

As far as I know, no such movement exists.

There are plenty of Scottish Highlanders who would say they have been, and still are, oppressed

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:08 am

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:23 am The Highlanders rugby team has a connection to the Scottish Highlands. Many of the early settlers in the Otago region were from Scotland in general and the highlands in particular. The name "Dunedin" is the Gaelic word for "Edinburgh".

This is in contrast to the Exeter Chiefs who have no connection to indigenous American peoples.

This connection would still not justify the Highlanders rugby team using the name if there were systematically oppressed people in the Highlands today asking for the rugby team not to use their name and culture.

As far as I know, no such movement exists.

Yep, about 20 per cent of New Zealander’s have Scottish roots, South Island has particularly strong links. You just have to look at the street names walking around Dunedin and the links are obvious.

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:19 pm

Slick wrote: ↑

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:23 am The Highlanders rugby team has a connection to the Scottish Highlands. Many of the early settlers in the Otago region were from Scotland in general and the highlands in particular. The name "Dunedin" is the Gaelic word for "Edinburgh".

This is in contrast to the Exeter Chiefs who have no connection to indigenous American peoples.

This connection would still not justify the Highlanders rugby team using the name if there were systematically oppressed people in the Highlands today asking for the rugby team not to use their name and culture.

As far as I know, no such movement exists.

There are plenty of Scottish Highlanders who would say they have been, and still are, oppressed

My post left that as a possibility. Are these people campaigning to have the Otago Highlanders change their name and branding?

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:18 pm

So because we have to go back further for the many, many invasions of England we treat people unequally?

Well I was being a bit flippant. But the oppression a group has faced for the past two hundred years, right up to the present moment isn’t the same as a few Vikings pillaging a monastery a thousand years ago. An obvious difference.

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:45 pm

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:18 pm

So because we have to go back further for the many, many invasions of England we treat people unequally?

Well I was being a bit flippant. But the oppression a group has faced for the past two hundred years, right up to the present moment isn’t the same as a few Vikings pillaging a monastery a thousand years ago. An obvious difference.

And if one looks at the power dynamics resulting from invasion and counter invasion, from serfdom through to low paid labour, are we happy to say everyone has escaped oppression? For sure we've got a certain amount of social mobility, but so have Native Americans

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:45 pm

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:18 pm

So because we have to go back further for the many, many invasions of England we treat people unequally?

Well I was being a bit flippant. But the oppression a group has faced for the past two hundred years, right up to the present moment isn’t the same as a few Vikings pillaging a monastery a thousand years ago. An obvious difference.

And if one looks at the power dynamics resulting from invasion and counter invasion, from serfdom through to low paid labour, are we happy to say everyone has escaped oppression? For sure we've got a certain amount of social mobility, but so have Native Americans

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:05 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:45 pm

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:18 pm

Well I was being a bit flippant. But the oppression a group has faced for the past two hundred years, right up to the present moment isn’t the same as a few Vikings pillaging a monastery a thousand years ago. An obvious difference.

And if one looks at the power dynamics resulting from invasion and counter invasion, from serfdom through to low paid labour, are we happy to say everyone has escaped oppression? For sure we've got a certain amount of social mobility, but so have Native Americans

This sort of sophistry is kinda aggravating just FYI.