Rich countries are hoarding vaccines: 51% of doses reserved by 15% of world's population

[FalseBayFC]

Enjoy your vaccines and immunity guys I guess it is what it is. Or, how about Aus, US,Canada, UK, NZ gives South Africa say $25000 worth of vaccine for every health professional we have exported without compensation. So say NZ for instance could give us 600 doctors x $25000 or $15 million or at $10 a course enough to vaccinate 150 000 of our old folks.

Your immigration policies are designed to import free professionals without having to invest in developing your own. As a result we have crippling shortages of doctors. Two state oncologists for a province of 9 million. Dozens of Saffer oncologists overseas. Why don't you train your own doctors and nurses etc?

You guys may think I am moaning unnecessarily and I guess its easy to not have empathy when you are safe and provided for. But your countries policies are designed to enrich yourselves at others expense.

[FalseBayFC]

Enjoy your vaccines and immunity guys I guess it is what it is. Or, how about Aus, US,Canada, UK, NZ gives South Africa say $25000 worth of vaccine for every health professional we have exported without compensation. So say NZ for instance could give us 600 doctors x $25000 or $15 million or at $10 a course enough to vaccinate 1500 0000 of our old folks.

Your immigration policies are designed to import free professionals without having to invest in developing your own. As a result we have crippling shortages of doctors. Two state oncologists for a province of 9 million. Dozens of Saffer oncologists overseas. Why don't you train your own doctors and nurses etc?

You guys may think I am moaning unnecessarily and I guess its easy to not have empathy when you are safe and provided for. But your countries policies are designed to enrich yourselves at others expense.

[Saint]

What use is the money to you if there's no vaccine for you to buy? I think you need to be clear want you're asking for

[Fangle]

.

[Fangle]

I’m pleased that my large number of relatives in South Africa, and indeed most South Africans, aren’t such whingers. They know it’s the incompetency of the wonderful ANC. It’s sad that you have such paranoia. The whole world isn’t against you.

[Lobby]

Enjoy your vaccines and immunity guys I guess it is what it is. Or, how about Aus, US,Canada, UK, NZ gives South Africa say $25000 worth of vaccine for every health professional we have exported without compensation. So say NZ for instance could give us 600 doctors x $25000 or $15 million or at $10 a course enough to vaccinate 150 000 of our old folks.

Your immigration policies are designed to import free professionals without having to invest in developing your own. As a result we have crippling shortages of doctors. Two state oncologists for a province of 9 million. Dozens of Saffer oncologists overseas. Why don't you train your own doctors and nurses etc?

You guys may think I am moaning unnecessarily and I guess its easy to not have empathy when you are safe and provided for. But your countries policies are designed to enrich yourselves at others expense.

As Kiap has pointed out earlier in the thread, the COVAX initiative has secured $2.4 Bln of funding to provide equitable access to Covid19 vaccines.

"COVAX will achieve this by acting as a platform that will support the research, development and manufacturing of a wide range of COVID-19 vaccine candidates, and negotiate their pricing. All participating countries, regardless of income levels, will have equal access to these vaccines once they are developed. The initial aim is to have 2 billion doses available by the end of 2021, which should be enough to protect high risk and vulnerable people, as well as frontline healthcare workers.

For lower-income funded nations, who would otherwise be unable to afford these vaccines, as well as a number of higher-income self-financing countries that have no bilateral deals with manufacturers, COVAX is quite literally a lifeline and the only viable way in which their citizens will get access to COVID-19 vaccines."


As for the Countries that you have asked to give money to South Africa, the UK has given $706M to the COVAX initiative, Australia has given 58M AUD, NZ 11M NZD and Canada $246M.

Unfortunately, South Africa has so far failed to join the COVAX alliance:

"On 17 November, it was reported that the [South African] government failed to give the Solidarity Fund approval to pay a R327 million deposit to COVAX, the 15% deposit that would guarantee access to vaccines secured through this facility."

As South Africa has failed to join COVAX, apparently because of an administrative oversight, do you expect us to redirect this COVAX funding to South Africa to make up for your government's failures?

[FalseBayFC]

I’m pleased that my large number of relatives in South Africa, and indeed most South Africans, aren’t such whingers. They know it’s the incompetency of the wonderful ANC. It’s sad that you have such paranoia. The whole world isn’t against you.

I am not saying that. You clearly give no fucks about your SA relatives and believe they deserve to go unvaccinated. So we should not say anything about the predicament, just be quiet and accept it? The UK has thousands of South African doctors and nurses trained with my South African tax money who will be administering vaccines to your population. How about stopping the import of our health professionals, why cant you train your own?

[FalseBayFC]

South Africa has joined and paid its Covax dues. Your article dated November 17 has no relevance.

[Chrysoprase]

The UK has thousands of South African doctors and nurses trained with my South African tax money who will be administering vaccines to your population. How about stopping the import of our health professionals, why cant you train your own?

Why did they leave SA to move to the UK?

[Sandstorm]

The UK has thousands of South African doctors and nurses trained with my South African tax money who will be administering vaccines to your population. How about stopping the import of our health professionals, why cant you train your own?

Why did they leave SA to move to the UK?

The weather

[FalseBayFC]

The UK has thousands of South African doctors and nurses trained with my South African tax money who will be administering vaccines to your population. How about stopping the import of our health professionals, why cant you train your own?

Why did they leave SA to move to the UK?

Because the governments of the US, UK and Australia and Canada amongst others pay them handsomely to do so. Much cheaper than training them themselves.

There are 17000+ African trained physicians working in the USA. Many thousands more in other anglophone countries

So my tax dollars in other words go toward providing manpower for the NHS etc. Let us say there are 25000 working abroad. Thats 1.25 billion dollars in saved tuition alone. This doesn't count the nurses,emt techs etc.

[sockwithaticket]

The UK has thousands of South African doctors and nurses trained with my South African tax money who will be administering vaccines to your population. How about stopping the import of our health professionals, why cant you train your own?

Why did they leave SA to move to the UK?

Because the governments of the US, UK and Australia and Canada amongst others pay them handsomely to do so.

They may well be leaving SA due to earning potential overseas, but they're not being paid to leave unless there's a government scheme I've missed.

[Biffer]

I think the question you want to ask yourself is why the South African government didn’t make it a condition of licensing the trial that they would have access to a certain Mount of vaccine on a certain timescale. Seems a fairly obvious thing to do.

[Sandstorm]

I think the question you want to ask yourself is why the South African government didn’t make it a condition of licensing the trial that they would have access to a certain Mount of vaccine on a certain timescale. Seems a fairly obvious thing to do.

That requires common sense and business acumen. SA leaders don’t have either.

[assfly]

Just looks like a pure form of realism being displayed. The rich and powerful countries will always put themselves first. Developing countries should not be surprised about this, and know what the back of the queue looks like. I don't like it, but that's just how it is and it was easily predicted.

[GogLais]

Just looks like a pure form of realism being displayed. The rich and powerful countries will always put themselves first. Developing countries should not be surprised about this, and know what the back of the queue looks like. I don't like it, but that's just how it is and it was easily predicted.

Yes, I was going to ask what’s the point of being a wealthy nation if you don’t use that wealth to look after your citizens but I thought I’d let somebody else say it first. Hoarding vaccine that you know you don’t need is out of order of course.

[assfly]

Yes, I was going to ask what’s the point of being a wealthy nation if you don’t use that wealth to look after your citizens but I thought I’d let somebody else say it first. Hoarding vaccine that you know you don’t need is out of order of course.

I'm sure some will become more magnanimous once they have sorted themselves out. And even then, I'm sure it will be selective with strings attached.

[Sandstorm]

Yes, I was going to ask what’s the point of being a wealthy nation if you don’t use that wealth to look after your citizens but I thought I’d let somebody else say it first. Hoarding vaccine that you know you don’t need is out of order of course.

I'm sure some will become more magnanimous once they have sorted themselves out. And even then, I'm sure it will be selective with strings attached.

You’d kick yourself if you gave 5 million spare vaccines to Senegal and then the scienticians say the best defence against Covid is a 3rd booster just before Halloween.

[Openside]

AZ does not have any available vaccine for Africa in 2021, even if we paid for it.

Because other countries have already paid for their expected production for the entire year.

Why are they ordering amounts in excess of their requirement?

I am guessing because the antibodies don't last long.

[Raggs]

Because other countries have already paid for their expected production for the entire year.

Why are they ordering amounts in excess of their requirement?

I am guessing because the antibodies don't last long.

It's because when the orders were made they didn't know if they'd work.

[Openside]

Enjoy your vaccines and immunity guys I guess it is what it is. Or, how about Aus, US,Canada, UK, NZ gives South Africa say $25000 worth of vaccine for every health professional we have exported without compensation. So say NZ for instance could give us 600 doctors x $25000 or $15 million or at $10 a course enough to vaccinate 150 000 of our old folks.

Your immigration policies are designed to import free professionals without having to invest in developing your own. As a result we have crippling shortages of doctors. Two state oncologists for a province of 9 million. Dozens of Saffer oncologists overseas. Why don't you train your own doctors and nurses etc?

You guys may think I am moaning unnecessarily and I guess its easy to not have empathy when you are safe and provided for. But your countries policies are designed to enrich yourselves at others expense.

is medical school in SA publicly funded? I would be amazed if so.

[Openside]

Why are they ordering amounts in excess of their requirement?

I am guessing because the antibodies don't last long.

It's because when the orders were made they didn't know if they'd work.

that too I guess

[FalseBayFC]

Why did they leave SA to move to the UK?

Because the governments of the US, UK and Australia and Canada amongst others pay them handsomely to do so.

They may well be leaving SA due to earning potential overseas, but they're not being paid to leave unless there's a government scheme I've missed.

Most of them go straight into NHS or state hospital positions. Recruited by the government.

[GogLais]

I'll show my ignorance. Do you still get/need the vaccine now if you've had the Covid recently? I realise you're not immune for ever after having it. I'm looking to get nearer the front of the queue.

[FalseBayFC]

Enjoy your vaccines and immunity guys I guess it is what it is. Or, how about Aus, US,Canada, UK, NZ gives South Africa say $25000 worth of vaccine for every health professional we have exported without compensation. So say NZ for instance could give us 600 doctors x $25000 or $15 million or at $10 a course enough to vaccinate 150 000 of our old folks.

Your immigration policies are designed to import free professionals without having to invest in developing your own. As a result we have crippling shortages of doctors. Two state oncologists for a province of 9 million. Dozens of Saffer oncologists overseas. Why don't you train your own doctors and nurses etc?

You guys may think I am moaning unnecessarily and I guess its easy to not have empathy when you are safe and provided for. But your countries policies are designed to enrich yourselves at others expense.

is medical school in SA publicly funded? I would be amazed if so.

All our universities and training hospitals are built with and funded by tax money. About 70 percent of the cost of training a doctor is born by the state.

[Openside]

I'll show my ignorance. Do you still get/need the vaccine now if you've had the Covid recently? I realise you're not immune for ever after having it. I'm looking to get nearer the front of the queue.

Yes you do

[Openside]

Enjoy your vaccines and immunity guys I guess it is what it is. Or, how about Aus, US,Canada, UK, NZ gives South Africa say $25000 worth of vaccine for every health professional we have exported without compensation. So say NZ for instance could give us 600 doctors x $25000 or $15 million or at $10 a course enough to vaccinate 150 000 of our old folks.

Your immigration policies are designed to import free professionals without having to invest in developing your own. As a result we have crippling shortages of doctors. Two state oncologists for a province of 9 million. Dozens of Saffer oncologists overseas. Why don't you train your own doctors and nurses etc?

You guys may think I am moaning unnecessarily and I guess its easy to not have empathy when you are safe and provided for. But your countries policies are designed to enrich yourselves at others expense.

is medical school in SA publicly funded? I would be amazed if so.

All our universities and training hospitals are built with and funded by tax money. About 70 percent of the cost of training a doctor is born by the state.

If you are paying 70% of medics fees etc. and not getting any return on service as a condition of said funding then it is an Omnishambles.

[FalseBayFC]

is medical school in SA publicly funded? I would be amazed if so.

All our universities and training hospitals are built with and funded by tax money. About 70 percent of the cost of training a doctor is born by the state.

If you are paying 70% of medics fees etc. and not getting any return on service as a condition of said funding then it is an Omnishambles.

The doctors are doing a perfectly rational thing by seeking a better life. But for every doctor in the NHS who comes from a developing country there is a corresponding hole in the exporting country's health service. A massive loss of both intellectual and financial capital.
Of course I understand how the world works. But if developing countries keep rolling over they will continue to get fucked over.

[sockwithaticket]

Because the governments of the US, UK and Australia and Canada amongst others pay them handsomely to do so.

They may well be leaving SA due to earning potential overseas, but they're not being paid to leave unless there's a government scheme I've missed.

Most of them go straight into NHS or state hospital positions. Recruited by the government.

As in they're actively being solicited by foreign governments or is this a statement that their employer is the government? Outside of the former, for which I'm not aware of there bein any evidence, that's simply individuals exercising their option to pursue available job opportunities and successfully getting them. If you have a probelm with drain from a particular sector, your government needs to do something about it.

[Glaston]

Is FalseBay the Saffa Refry?

[Fangle]

Is FalseBay the Saffa Refry?

Similar paranoia.

[FalseBayFC]

They may well be leaving SA due to earning potential overseas, but they're not being paid to leave unless there's a government scheme I've missed.

Most of them go straight into NHS or state hospital positions. Recruited by the government.

As in they're actively being solicited by foreign governments or is this a statement that their employer is the government? Outside of the former, for which I'm not aware of there bein any evidence, that's simply individuals exercising their option to pursue available job opportunities and successfully getting them. If you have a probelm with drain from a particular sector, your government needs to do something about it.

That's the whole point I am trying to make. The UK govt doesn't simply let any immigrant in, it recruits doctors from developing countries and gives them favourable immigrant status. So its a conscious and active policy and not simply down to market forces. And how is my government supposed to do anything about it, we have no way of competing with a top 10 economy.

[FalseBayFC]

Is FalseBay the Saffa Refry?

Similar paranoia.

So no response to the points I raise. Paranoia is fear of non-existent threats. Covid19 has killed 30000 in 12 months. The UK has plundered the ranks of our doctors. Fangle, your elderly relatives my not whinge. But I am also sure the don't live on a pension of £50 a month in crowded, tiny multi-generational houses where isolating is impossible. Not able to get medical treatment because the doctors are working 8000 km away for the NHS. This is the reality of most of the elderly in South Africa. But you're quite correct, they shouldn't whinge. Its not so easy to be stoic in those conditions.

[Jb1981]

Enjoy your vaccines and immunity guys I guess it is what it is. Or, how about Aus, US,Canada, UK, NZ gives South Africa say $25000 worth of vaccine for every health professional we have exported without compensation. So say NZ for instance could give us 600 doctors x $25000 or $15 million or at $10 a course enough to vaccinate 150 000 of our old folks.

Your immigration policies are designed to import free professionals without having to invest in developing your own. As a result we have crippling shortages of doctors. Two state oncologists for a province of 9 million. Dozens of Saffer oncologists overseas. Why don't you train your own doctors and nurses etc?

You guys may think I am moaning unnecessarily and I guess its easy to not have empathy when you are safe and provided for. But your countries policies are designed to enrich yourselves at others expense.

As has already been pointed out, NZ and Australia have both secured vaccines for their Pacific neighbours. They are helping beyond their shores. I appreciate South Africa’s predicament and your own loss but you are being disingenuous when you continue to say that NZ and Australia are only looking out for themselves. It makes sense that they would support those closest to them first.

[Ted.]

I am also most worried for my parents and in-laws who are all in their eighties. Not just the risk to their physical health but self-isolating is putting a big mental strain on them. The good news is that I am confident our private sector medicine will handle distribution of the vaccine to those who can afford it quite easily. We also have good experience in rural areas in dealing with TB and HIV so I think we are better positioned to roll out than people think. Only the Pfizer vacc has the extreme cold requirement and our President has said that we can't afford that anyway.

Ever so slightly hypocritical. But as you have come out as a member of the privileged few, I'll let it pass.

[Fangle]

You are complaining at the wrong time. The horse has left the stable. You should have been pressuring your government when all the other countries were putting in their orders. SA missed the deadline. It is not any other country’s fault. I am equally pissed off, but it is completely SA’s responsibility and they should admit it.

[FalseBayFC]

I am also most worried for my parents and in-laws who are all in their eighties. Not just the risk to their physical health but self-isolating is putting a big mental strain on them. The good news is that I am confident our private sector medicine will handle distribution of the vaccine to those who can afford it quite easily. We also have good experience in rural areas in dealing with TB and HIV so I think we are better positioned to roll out than people think. Only the Pfizer vacc has the extreme cold requirement and our President has said that we can't afford that anyway.

Ever so slightly hypocritical. But as you come out as a member of the privileged few, I'll let it pass.

Ted, I am very active in the underprivileged community which is huge over here. I pay huge money which I can hardly afford for my parents health insurance. My wife has just lost her job so it just got harder. We don't have a safety net like you guys. Can you see why I may be a little strung out about this. My medical aid costs are 30 percent of my salary.

[FalseBayFC]

You are complaining at the wrong time. The horse has left the stable. You should have been pressuring your government when all the other countries were putting in their orders. SA missed the deadline. It is not any other country’s fault. I am equally pissed off, but it is completely SA’s responsibility and they should admit it.

There is still time to save millions of lives in the developing world. Release the licenses of effective vaccines so they can be mass produced in the interests of humanity.

[sockwithaticket]

Most of them go straight into NHS or state hospital positions. Recruited by the government.

As in they're actively being solicited by foreign governments or is this a statement that their employer is the government? Outside of the former, for which I'm not aware of there bein any evidence, that's simply individuals exercising their option to pursue available job opportunities and successfully getting them. If you have a probelm with drain from a particular sector, your government needs to do something about it.

That's the whole point I am trying to make. The UK govt doesn't simply let any immigrant in, it recruits doctors from developing countries and gives them favourable immigrant status. So its a conscious and active policy and not simply down to market forces. And how is my government supposed to do anything about it, we have no way of competing with a top 10 economy.

Ok, you are making spurious claims after all. The NHS is staffed by doctors from all over the place, including plenty from the EU. No one's singling out the developing world.

Skilled workers are more desired than non-skilled and face an easier ride into the country, what a shock.

Your government has lots of tools at its disposal. You say tax pays for a huge portion of your doctors' training, well pass legislation that anyone who graduates having had that tax payer input into their education, has to serve 5 years in SA. Give them special tax breaks for staying put, that scale up the longer they provide service.

[FalseBayFC]

I am also most worried for my parents and in-laws who are all in their eighties. Not just the risk to their physical health but self-isolating is putting a big mental strain on them. The good news is that I am confident our private sector medicine will handle distribution of the vaccine to those who can afford it quite easily. We also have good experience in rural areas in dealing with TB and HIV so I think we are better positioned to roll out than people think. Only the Pfizer vacc has the extreme cold requirement and our President has said that we can't afford that anyway.

Ever so slightly hypocritical. But as you have come out as a member of the privileged few, I'll let it pass.

I was referring to a distribution network, not access to the actual vaccine. Access will not be prioritized for those who can pay for it. So no not hypocritical at all.