NPR

_Os_ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:06 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:57 am A lot of it stems, once again, from gutless Cameron appeased and ballsed it up (onshore wind, fracking, cut the green crap) rather than confronting the issue, and the associated wingnuts in his Party. A man who literally ran away at the end of statements to the Press rather than take questions.

The Great Stink is a good parallel, that eventually got solved when the Houses of Parliament were overwhelmed by it. So when PMQS is conducted in galoshes, we might get some political leadership on the issue.

Although the real answer, and it's already starting to happen, is when the insurance industry gets it's teeth into the issue. Once the underwriters start to review cover and deem certain industries and activities bad risks, the writing will be on the wall.

The negatives for the UK aren't too bad, the worst cases are a lot colder and drier. Frost is a moron but wasn't entirely wrong, climate change has a smaller impact on the UK than elsewhere.

The thing that isn't being factored into the UK's discussion is my point 3 in the above post. It doesn't really matter what the impact to the UK is, the places the UK trades with have made up their mind, so the choice ends up being go with them or become poorer.

Only if you ignore migration, or regard it as a positive, which the Anti-Net Zero Tories clearly don't !

tc27 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:03 pm You may detest the Prime Minister and the party but the idea they shouldn't use VIP transport when on official business is nuts.

Helicopters aren't required, cars are available.

It's a way of attacking him for being a near enough a billionaire. "Man takes helicopter rides all the time", "man has ultra expensive shoes/suit/watch", "man has heated swimming pool that uses so much power it required upgrading the local power grid infrastructure", "man has multiple mansions", "man so out of touch he tells homeless man at soup kitchen to become an investment banker or something", "man so out of touch he doesn't know how to buy petrol".

It was always a bold move for the Tories to pick a billionaire guy as leader.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:16 pm

tc27 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:03 pm You may detest the Prime Minister and the party but the idea they shouldn't use VIP transport when on official business is nuts.

Helicopters aren't required, cars are available.

It's a way of attacking him for being a near enough a billionaire. "Man takes helicopter rides all the time", "man has ultra expensive shoes/suit/watch", "man has heated swimming pool that uses so much power it required upgrading the local power grid infrastructure", "man has multiple mansions", "man so out of touch he tells homeless man at soup kitchen to become an investment banker or something", "man so out of touch he doesn't know how to buy petrol".

It was always a bold move for the Tories to pick a billionaire guy as leader.

Multimillionaire takes expensive travel option paid for by the state while preaching cuts and restraint for everyone else.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:16 pm
It was always a bold move for the Tories to pick a billionaire guy as leader.

Dennis Thatcher was very comfortably off. Call me Dave was rich, his wife richer. And now Rishi is minted even if like Call me Dave his wife is far richer again. Even Boris was of the land of opulence, he just lacked the instinct to keep track of any of his wealth because it would have taken a modicum of effort and splurged still more again

I don't think they think it's a problem somehow, their thing is being selfish no matter the cost to others, to the environment...

tc27 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:03 pm You may detest the Prime Minister and the party but the idea they shouldn't use VIP transport when on official business is nuts.

I agree. But also make them take trains so they realise how f*cked the network is.

tc27 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:03 pm You may detest the Prime Minister and the party but the idea they shouldn't use VIP transport when on official business is nuts.

Flying by helicopter from London to Aberdeen makes total sense.

Flying from London to Oxfordshire, Nottinghamshire, Birmingham etc. is demonstrating what a rich entitled twat you are.

(Ps for disclaimer: I don't know his exact travel schedule, but I know that there were several trips that were just 1-2 hours by train or car)

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:15 pm

_Os_ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:16 pm
It was always a bold move for the Tories to pick a billionaire guy as leader.

Dennis Thatcher was very comfortably off. Call me Dave was rich, his wife richer. And now Rishi is minted even if like Call me Dave his wife is far richer again. Even Boris was of the land of opulence, he just lacked the instinct to keep track of any of his wealth because it would have taken a modicum of effort and splurged still more again

I don't think they think it's a problem somehow, their thing is being selfish no matter the cost to others, to the environment...

The dodgy part of Cameron's wealth was that his father was an offshore specialist, similar to Thatcher she offshored her wealth so her children could get around inheritance tax. (I need to make a follow up post on offshoring continuing where Paddington left it, but it's difficult making it short, the big issue is it provides such an advantage to those who do it that any large corporate doing it obliterates smaller competition, it's probably feeding the UK's productivity problem).

Back to Sunak. It's an issue because of point 1 in my above post. Tories are leaning into the culture war and identity stuff. People like Cameron and Johnson know how they're seen by ordinary people and take active measures to avoid it looking too bad, they make it as hard as possible for people to say "this guy isn't one of us and doesn't share our identity". Sunak is richer than all of them, if he isn't a billionaire already he will be. If it lands that Sunak "isn't one of us and doesn't share our identity", then the Tories are fucked with their own voters, being the nouveau riche billionaire guy with an opulent life makes it really easy to land this. Much harder when the Tory leader is pretending to be middle class whilst they're offshoring wheelbarrows of cash/assets.

Boris, weirdly, as the least sociable of recent Tory leaders did cut across the wealth divide such 'ordinary' folk found they could identify with him, another thing the lying, fat, corrupt arsewipe has in common with Trump. Call me Dave never connected, sometimes he'd try, claiming to be an Aston Villa fan but not being able to name a player, that sort of thing, Rishi has tried it filling up an aide's small car at a petrol station.

If they need to do the culture war thing it's better not to have Rishi do it, he and Hunt can be the steady hands on the tiller who don't scare the professional classes. They've plenty of folk who can get out and spin some bad faith nonsense to drum up some populist support, not just 30p Lee and Mark 'Penfold' Francois but people who can actually construct a sentence and reliably turn up sober

salanya wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:38 pm

tc27 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:03 pm You may detest the Prime Minister and the party but the idea they shouldn't use VIP transport when on official business is nuts.

Flying by helicopter from London to Aberdeen makes total sense.

Flying from London to Oxfordshire, Nottinghamshire, Birmingham etc. is demonstrating what a rich entitled twat you are.

(Ps for disclaimer: I don't know his exact travel schedule, but I know that there were several trips that were just 1-2 hours by train or car)

Car travel for a PM requires outriders and multiple cars...its generally a ball ache for special branch and other drivers. I just think we need to stop spilling so much digital ink getting outraged that national and devolved leaders/ministers get VIP travel arrangements. It completely unremarkable and happens in every other country.

tc27 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 4:12 pm

salanya wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:38 pm

tc27 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:03 pm You may detest the Prime Minister and the party but the idea they shouldn't use VIP transport when on official business is nuts.

Flying by helicopter from London to Aberdeen makes total sense.

Flying from London to Oxfordshire, Nottinghamshire, Birmingham etc. is demonstrating what a rich entitled twat you are.

(Ps for disclaimer: I don't know his exact travel schedule, but I know that there were several trips that were just 1-2 hours by train or car)

Car travel for a PM requires outriders and multiple cars...its generally a ball ache for special branch and other drivers. I just think we need to stop spilling so much digital ink getting outraged that national and devolved leaders/ministers get VIP travel arrangements. It completely unremarkable and happens in every other country.

Kim Jong Un travels by train, if it's good enough for him....

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:27 pm

tc27 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:03 pm You may detest the Prime Minister and the party but the idea they shouldn't use VIP transport when on official business is nuts.

I agree. But also make them take trains so they realise how f*cked the network is.

Corbyn took a train and it started him on the downward slide right out of the Party Cabinet.

Anything to try and scrape votes - easier than trying to create initiatives to reduce car dependency I suppose

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 4:02 pm

_Os_ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:16 pm

tc27 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:03 pm You may detest the Prime Minister and the party but the idea they shouldn't use VIP transport when on official business is nuts.

Helicopters aren't required, cars are available.

It's a way of attacking him for being a near enough a billionaire. "Man takes helicopter rides all the time", "man has ultra expensive shoes/suit/watch", "man has heated swimming pool that uses so much power it required upgrading the local power grid infrastructure", "man has multiple mansions", "man so out of touch he tells homeless man at soup kitchen to become an investment banker or something", "man so out of touch he doesn't know how to buy petrol".

It was always a bold move for the Tories to pick a billionaire guy as leader.

Security often dictates otherwise. It's la la land stuff to think otherwise. You can detest the political class but also recognise the risks inherent in the job. It's what makes us the right sorts ffs

Yeah? What are the risks to a serving UK Prime Minister travelling in England? It's not fucking Blackhawk Down, lads.

Yes Rishi, they're super important... because your party has overseen a massive contraction in public transport services. Buses in particular.

tc27 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 4:12 pm

salanya wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 1:38 pm

tc27 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 12:03 pm You may detest the Prime Minister and the party but the idea they shouldn't use VIP transport when on official business is nuts.

Flying by helicopter from London to Aberdeen makes total sense.

Flying from London to Oxfordshire, Nottinghamshire, Birmingham etc. is demonstrating what a rich entitled twat you are.

(Ps for disclaimer: I don't know his exact travel schedule, but I know that there were several trips that were just 1-2 hours by train or car)

Car travel for a PM requires outriders and multiple cars...its generally a ball ache for special branch and other drivers. I just think we need to stop spilling so much digital ink getting outraged that national and devolved leaders/ministers get VIP travel arrangements. It completely unremarkable and happens in every other country.

Yeah I would agree but the tolerance for this unelected fuckwit pm is absolutely zero. They've spent 10 years lecturing us about public finances while spaffing vast quantities of public money all over the place including to their mates. You can't expect public servants to dip into their own pockets for stuff then as a multimillionaire expect the public to pay for your helicopter trips. We've all got to be part of our big society and play our part in levelling up the UK while taking back control.

To coin a misquote...

If a monkey hoarded more bananas than it could eat, while most of the other monkeys starved, scientists would study that monkey to figure out what the heck was wrong with it. When humans do it, we elect them into government

This is mad.

Apparently Starmer is a super villain, Moscow's man in London. The entire strategy from Labour has been to make sure these types of attacks cannot land.

Does Infosys still operate in Russia and pay tax to the Putin? (last time there was any reporting on this at the end of 2022 they had not left Russia) Does Infosys still work with most of the biggest integrated oil and gas companies, oilfield service companies, and upstream oil and gas companies? (obviously yes they do).

Starmer probably doesn't have a family business literally employing Russians. Starmer could respond "Labour supports the ban on all Russian oil and gas, you say I want to protect Russia jobs, does your family business still operate in Russia and employ Russians? Is your family business currently working with any Russian oil and gas companies?". But that would mean risking Starmer's carefully constructed bland image, because then the Tories say "Labour are anti-family businesses" and the right wing press (and most of the media that follows them zombie like) attacks.

Going full Trump

_Os_ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:03 pm This is mad.

Apparently Starmer is a super villain, Moscow's man in London. The entire strategy from Labour has been to make sure these types of attacks cannot land.

Does Infosys still operate in Russia and pay tax to the Putin? (last time there was any reporting on this at the end of 2022 they had not left Russia) Does Infosys still work with most of the biggest integrated oil and gas companies, oilfield service companies, and upstream oil and gas companies? (obviously yes they do).

Starmer probably doesn't have a family business literally employing Russians. Starmer could respond "Labour supports the ban on all Russian oil and gas, you say I want to protect Russia jobs, does your family business still operate in Russia and employ Russians? Is your family business currently working with any Russian oil and gas companies?". But that would mean risking Starmer's carefully constructed bland image, because then the Tories say "Labour are anti-family businesses" and the right wing press (and most of the media that follows them zombie like) attacks.

Absolute fucking filth. Dirty populist shitbag.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 7:03 pm This is mad.

Apparently Starmer is a super villain, Moscow's man in London. The entire strategy from Labour has been to make sure these types of attacks cannot land.

Does Infosys still operate in Russia and pay tax to the Putin? (last time there was any reporting on this at the end of 2022 they had not left Russia) Does Infosys still work with most of the biggest integrated oil and gas companies, oilfield service companies, and upstream oil and gas companies? (obviously yes they do).

Starmer probably doesn't have a family business literally employing Russians. Starmer could respond "Labour supports the ban on all Russian oil and gas, you say I want to protect Russia jobs, does your family business still operate in Russia and employ Russians? Is your family business currently working with any Russian oil and gas companies?". But that would mean risking Starmer's carefully constructed bland image, because then the Tories say "Labour are anti-family businesses" and the right wing press (and most of the media that follows them zombie like) attacks.

Rishi (or his wife) have less than no impact on Infosys. The Tories are awash with Russian cash and have boosted key industries for them in Londoningrad that's where the influence is.

But the policy is mad because it's a culture war. There's not enough oil and gas in the north sea for any sort of self sufficiency anyway.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:51 am ... This whole thing reminds me a lot of Truss and Kwarteng, who thought they knew what business and the market wanted (having never run a business), until they blew everything up because the market told them "no". Not much evidence the market is going to want a super abundance of hydrocarbons, they cannot see this because they think the market is self regulating and government has no role.

Err, this one came in quicker than I expected.

https://www.politico.eu/article/billion ... nvestment/

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 10:51 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 5:39 pm

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 4:02 pm

Security often dictates otherwise. It's la la land stuff to think otherwise. You can detest the political class but also recognise the risks inherent in the job. It's what makes us the right sorts ffs

Yeah? What are the risks to a serving UK Prime Minister travelling in England? It's not fucking Blackhawk Down, lads.

There is a discernible risk. Any security analyst or twat on the internet can see that

But not such a risk that he can't be taking a car without a military convoy. It's more dangerous being a fucking cyclist

The Dutch PM used to ride to work on a bicycle (might still do, not sure).

Anyways, it's good to see that Rishi's claim to stand for integrity is still going strong

I know there are politics to be played, but blaming Labour for supporting Russian jobs over British jobs is ridiculous on several levels.

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:39 pm

salanya wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 11:35 pm The Dutch PM used to ride to work on a bicycle (might still do, not sure).

Anyways, it's good to see that Rishi's claim to stand for integrity is still going strong

I know there are politics to be played, but blaming Labour for supporting Russian jobs over British jobs is ridiculous on several levels.

He'd be an idiot to do that these days. The atmosphere is poisonous all over the world.

It's been poisonous for a good while (see Pim Fortuyn), and he was still riding his bike then.

I'm not suggesting that it's the best mode of transport for Rishi, but getting a helicopter out anytime he needs to venture out of the City is nonsense.

The helicopter/private jets thing is more about the tin ear of Sunak and the incredibly poor images he presents. There are times he could have used train/schedule flights with little difference in time and security concerns yet he hasn't. Any politician in touch would have read the room and made a bit of a show about getting the train to a few places with a photo op of him working hard in first class and even a picture of him jumping aboard a BA flight to get to Aberdeen would have been good politics given his visit was about green issues. That he hasn't done this and indeed behaved like a petulant spoiled child when challenged about his use of helicopters and private jets demonstrates how little he actually understands about the communications and political environment outside of Westminster and his rich buddies. All he has done is made it an issue and prolonged the debate over his behaviour and shown how out of touch he is with the public. Very poor but there again I dont think he gives a shit now, he is too busy lining the pockets of his family/mates and burning the country before they get chucked out at the next GE.

dpedin wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 8:06 am The helicopter/private jets thing is more about the tin ear of Sunak and the incredibly poor images he presents. There are times he could have used train/schedule flights with little difference in time and security concerns yet he hasn't. Any politician in touch would have read the room and made a bit of a show about getting the train to a few places with a photo op of him working hard in first class and even a picture of him jumping aboard a BA flight to get to Aberdeen would have been good politics given his visit was about green issues. That he hasn't done this and indeed behaved like a petulant spoiled child when challenged about his use of helicopters and private jets demonstrates how little he actually understands about the communications and political environment outside of Westminster and his rich buddies. All he has done is made it an issue and prolonged the debate over his behaviour and shown how out of touch he is with the public. Very poor but there again I dont think he gives a shit now, he is too busy lining the pockets of his family/mates and burning the country before they get chucked out at the next GE.

I read yesterday that there were two scheduled flights from London to Aberdeen around the time of Sunak's arrival, one landed around twenty minutes before and one about the same time after.

I imagine it's a fairly busy route due to the North Sea, so he wouldn't have been short of choices.

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 10:51 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 5:39 pm

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 4:02 pm

Security often dictates otherwise. It's la la land stuff to think otherwise. You can detest the political class but also recognise the risks inherent in the job. It's what makes us the right sorts ffs

Yeah? What are the risks to a serving UK Prime Minister travelling in England? It's not fucking Blackhawk Down, lads.

There is a discernible risk. Any security analyst or twat on the internet can see that

Helicopters being famously risk free, both in themselves and in the event of being attacked

The scale of Tory lying is simply staggering.

Gerard Butler’s not working at the moment, he’s very experienced at this close transport business.

FWIW I saw Boris Johnson cycling to work when he was Mayor a few times...not sure it means anything about his character.

I also suspect a couple of the posters ardently complaining about this here could not care less about Nicola Sturgeons and other SG senior ministers preference for chauffeur driven cars instead of trains to travel around the central belt.

This is incredibly insightful but the earlier poster put it more succinctly. In the absence of a Donald Pleasance level goat fucker he’s prob ok in a car.

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:19 am

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 8:38 am

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2023 10:51 pm

There is a discernible risk. Any security analyst or twat on the internet can see that

Helicopters being famously risk free, both in themselves and in the event of being attacked

You're general nut bag doesn't have access to SAM's but a bog standard goat fucker can put together an IED.

The rare instance of wanting your not you're. Also how many goat fuckers do you imagine there are that one needs to classify some as merely bog standard?

And true, but SAMs aren't the only issue. Not so much a well maintained helicopter itself, more lasers, drones. Point being risk is a common theme, and if his best defence is he's led a country to such a state of violence he can't catch the train, then would he kindly fuck off from public life

Line6 HXFX wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 8:48 am The scale of Tory lying is simply staggering.

Has Starmer said anything about this yet? Surely this is an easy one to point out that they are lying to you again?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66340991

And I thought my council was bad....

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:37 am

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:26 am

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:19 am

You're general nut bag doesn't have access to SAM's but a bog standard goat fucker can put together an IED.

The rare instance of wanting your not you're. Also how many goat fuckers do you imagine there are that one needs to classify some as merely bog standard?

And true, but SAMs aren't the only issue. Not so much a well maintained helicopter itself, more lasers, drones. Point being risk is a common theme, and if his best defence is he's led a country to such a state of violence he can't catch the train, then would he kindly fuck off from public life

You're can fuck off. Seriously though you have enough reasons to not like the Tories without focusing on security issues

Oh please, one can never have too many reasons to loathe them, what they've done to the country and even what they've done to their party.

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:47 am

sturginho wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:38 am https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66340991

And I thought my council was bad....

Now THAT is an actual issue with the Tories. It's hilariously bad

Further details here https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/s ... -taxpayers
Incredible really. Every time the public bears the cost.

tc27 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:11 am FWIW I saw Boris Johnson cycling to work when he was Mayor a few times...not sure it means anything about his character.

The same Johnson who successfully conned much (most?) of the UK into thinking he was a normal down to earth guy who "is intelligent really"? Cycling seemed to work then?

Taking a helicopter everywhere is so obviously a bad move. Was it Major (could've been Thatcher) who wanted to install a helicopter landing pad on the roof of No 10, just to speed travel up? He was told he wasn't a president and that wouldn't go down well.

Johnson got taken down by partygate, it tanked his polling which forced him into lying to parliament about it. Taking helicopter rides everywhere is in the same category of "this guy isn't one of us, there's things he's doing we cannot". There should be different rules for the people running the UK, they should ignore lockdown they should take helicopters everywhere ... but that's not what the UK public wants, they want leaders who pretend to be normal.

Given the nature of the UK media/public debate, "billionaire man takes helicopter rides everywhere" is something which can cut through. It has to be so simple that the tabloids cannot ignore it. This is dumb, but it's also what works.

tc27 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:11 am FWIW I saw Boris Johnson cycling to work when he was Mayor a few times...not sure it means anything about his character.

I also suspect a couple of the posters ardently complaining about this here could not care less about Nicola Sturgeons and other SG senior ministers preference for chauffeur driven cars instead of trains to travel around the central belt.

Then again there are photos of Nicola Sturgeon on the airport bus with everyone else while she was FM.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:58 am

tc27 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:11 am FWIW I saw Boris Johnson cycling to work when he was Mayor a few times...not sure it means anything about his character.

The same Johnson who successfully conned much (most?) of the UK into thinking he was a normal down to earth guy who "is intelligent really"? Cycling seemed to work then?

Taking a helicopter everywhere is so obviously a bad move. Was it Major (could've been Thatcher) who wanted to install a helicopter landing pad on the roof of No 10, just to speed travel up? He was told he wasn't a president and that wouldn't go down well.

Johnson got taken down by partygate, it tanked his polling which forced him into lying to parliament about it. Taking helicopter rides everywhere is in the same category of "this guy isn't one of us, there's things he's doing we cannot". There should be different rules for the people running the UK, they should ignore lockdown they should take helicopters everywhere ... but that's not what the UK public wants, they want leaders who pretend to be normal.

Given the nature of the UK media/public debate, "billionaire man takes helicopter rides everywhere" is something which can cut through. It has to be so simple that the tabloids cannot ignore it. This is dumb, but it's also what works.

Lets be clear, Johnson is a cunt, but his ability to connect with anyone from anywhere is pretty remarkable. I'd see him almost daily when he was Mayor chatting away to anyone who came up to him, binmen, city folk, and all left with a smile on their face. Lets be clear, Johnson is a cunt.

Didn't Boris get caught slagging off John Lewis?

Thought that would torpedo his standing in Middle England.

To their credit, John Lewis responded by releasing an 'everyday' range that was in distinct contrast to Boris and Carrie's profligacy.