tc27 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:11 am
FWIW I saw Boris Johnson cycling to work when he was Mayor a few times...not sure it means anything about his character.
I also suspect a couple of the posters ardently complaining about this here could not care less about Nicola Sturgeons and other SG senior ministers preference for chauffeur driven cars instead of trains to travel around the central belt.
Then again there are photos of Nicola Sturgeon on the airport bus with everyone else while she was FM.
tc27 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:11 am
FWIW I saw Boris Johnson cycling to work when he was Mayor a few times...not sure it means anything about his character.
I also suspect a couple of the posters ardently complaining about this here could not care less about Nicola Sturgeons and other SG senior ministers preference for chauffeur driven cars instead of trains to travel around the central belt.
Then again there are photos of Nicola Sturgeon on the airport bus with everyone else while she was FM.
Slick wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 10:12 am
Lets be clear, Johnson is a cunt, but his ability to connect with anyone from anywhere is pretty remarkable. I'd see him almost daily when he was Mayor chatting away to anyone who came up to him, binmen, city folk, and all left with a smile on their face. Lets be clear, Johnson is a cunt.
What's remarkable about cycling and talking to people? It was all just part of his act, does he bother with any of that now that con has been played?
The UK public wants leaders that pretend to be normal, it's probably stupid but that's what they want.
"Man cycles to work and talks to people" = Make this completely unsuitable cunt PM with a huge majority!
"Billionaire man takes helicopter rides everywhere" = Who does he think he is the PM or something! Get him out!
Line6 HXFX wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 8:48 am
The scale of Tory lying is simply staggering.
Has Starmer said anything about this yet? Surely this is an easy one to point out that they are lying to you again?
Not Starmer himself, but it's clearly part of the Labour brief at the moment.
Given the format of PMQs it wasn't as detailed as a 5 minute news segment, but Rayner slapped Sunak down over his claims last week pointing out it wasn't going to do anything for bills or energy security.
Last night someone from Labour was on Channel 4 reiterating the same and (encouragingly!) talking about Labour wanting turning the UK into a green energy leader with massive expansion in tidal, solar and on and off shore wind which would have the trifold benefit of providing jobs, increasing energy security and marching us towards emission targets the Tories are ignoring.
I'd really like to hear mentioned on top of that removing subsidies to fossil fuel companies and decoupling the price of electricity from that of gas.
The pipe dream is to hear of punitive climate crisis levies on fossil fuel companies who've actively funded 'research' and lobbied against greener energy production, even used their finanical clout to buy start ups and suppress them.
Slick wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 10:12 am
Lets be clear, Johnson is a cunt, but his ability to connect with anyone from anywhere is pretty remarkable. I'd see him almost daily when he was Mayor chatting away to anyone who came up to him, binmen, city folk, and all left with a smile on their face. Lets be clear, Johnson is a cunt.
What's remarkable about cycling and talking to people? It was all just part of his act, does he bother with any of that now that con has been played?
The UK public wants leaders that pretend to be normal, it's probably stupid but that's what they want.
"Man cycles to work and talks to people" = Make this completely unsuitable cunt PM with a huge majority!
"Billionaire man takes helicopter rides everywhere" = Who does he think he is the PM or something! Get him out!
It was always a fraud. He never once had his bike nicked or got knocked off by a jaywalker on their mobile phone.
I've not been impressed with Sunak's oil and gas agenda as announced these last few days but describing Infosys as his family's business is not great journalism.
Now THAT is an actual issue with the Tories. It's hilariously bad
The Tories plan of councils becoming investors was stupid because councils don't have that expertise.
In this case though, how's the guy not being arrested for fraud? Should be in jail for 10+ years.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2023 12:04 pm
by _Os_
robmatic wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 11:47 am
I've not been impressed with Sunak's oil and gas agenda as announced these last few days but describing Infosys as his family's business is not great journalism.
It was co-founded by Sunak's father in law and his family (his wife) is still invested and getting millions in dividend payments every year.
If it's not a family business and it's instead explained what it is in detail and how Sunak's family is benefitting. The question then becomes "why is the PM's family benefitting from a company that seems to be invested in Russia still, and why is the PM claiming Starmer wants Russian jobs protected?".
His family doesn't have to stay invested. If there's no family connection and it isn't a family business at all, and it really just is an investment, then sell the shares and invest elsewhere. It's not exactly "sell Coke, buy Pepsi" though.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2023 12:28 pm
by SaintK
Move along, nothing to see here!
Jeremy Hunt oversaw the signing of a low-tax treaty with San Marino championed by a leading Tory donor, who with his companies has given more than £700,000 to the party and £30,000 to the chancellor.
Maurizio Bragagni, a prominent businessman and diplomat for San Marino, was present in No 11 Downing Street when a “double taxation” treaty between the UK and San Marino was signed in May.
Hunt is a former member of the APPG on San Marino and visited the small landlocked state, surrounded by Italy, in 2021, declaring hospitality from San Marino for four members of his family and himself, flights, accommodation and food with a total value of £7,869 over three days.
tc27 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:11 am
FWIW I saw Boris Johnson cycling to work when he was Mayor a few times...not sure it means anything about his character.
I also suspect a couple of the posters ardently complaining about this here could not care less about Nicola Sturgeons and other SG senior ministers preference for chauffeur driven cars instead of trains to travel around the central belt.
Hey do you think there's a small chance people consider cars to be completely different in cost and pollution to helicopters and private jets or were you just keen on getting some more whataboutery in?
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2023 2:05 pm
by Insane_Homer
United Nations Secretary General Antonio Guterres: “By announcing hundreds of new oil and gas licences, the PM, Rishi Sunak, has become a dangerous radical pursuing moral and economic madness”
United Nations Secretary General Antonio Guterres: “By announcing hundreds of new oil and gas licences, the PM, Rishi Sunak, has become a dangerous radical pursuing moral and economic madness”
United Nations Secretary General Antonio Guterres: “By announcing hundreds of new oil and gas licences, the PM, Rishi Sunak, has become a dangerous radical pursuing moral and economic madness”
Just for anyone else who thought this unlikely, the quote is from 2022 and does not name Rishi Sunak.
Actual sourced quote:
Climate activists are sometimes depicted as dangerous radicals. But, the truly dangerous radicals are the countries that are increasing the production of fossil fuels.
Investing in new fossil fuels infrastructure is moral and economic madness.
United Nations Secretary General Antonio Guterres: “By announcing hundreds of new oil and gas licences, the PM, Rishi Sunak, has become a dangerous radical pursuing moral and economic madness”
Just for anyone else who thought this unlikely, the quote is from 2022 and does not name Rishi Sunak.
Actual sourced quote:
Climate activists are sometimes depicted as dangerous radicals. But, the truly dangerous radicals are the countries that are increasing the production of fossil fuels.
Investing in new fossil fuels infrastructure is moral and economic madness.
Fabricating specificity of the quote is certainly dumb, but it's hardly bullshit. The following was said, and Sunak has now become one of the people Guterres was talking about.
But, the truly dangerous radicals are the countries that are increasing the production of fossil fuels.
Investing in new fossil fuels infrastructure is moral and economic madness.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:30 pm
by fishfoodie
Unsurprising they sneaked this story out over the summer recess.
UK government climbs down on post-Brexit product mark
Adoption of Britain-only rival to EU’s CE designation postponed ‘indefinitely’, say ministers
The UK government has bowed to pressure from businesses and dropped rules to force companies to use a new post-Brexit replacement for the EU’s “CE” product quality mark.
The “indefinite” postponement was widely welcomed by industry and came after more than two years of intense lobbying to abandon the new rules.
The government has long portrayed the UKCA safety mark as a way the country can “take back control of our product regulations” in the wake of Brexit.
But the plans to establish a rival to the CE mark, which assures the safety of electronic, industrial and consumer goods, have been deeply unpopular with manufacturers and traders who see them as an additional burden.
The government said that under the indefinite delay, businesses would be free to use either the UKCA or the CE mark when placing goods on the UK market.
Kevin Hollinrake, business minister, said the decision was taken to reduce “red tape” on business and to “prevent a cliff-edge moment” ahead of the planned introduction of UKCA from the start of 2025.
....
I'm sure an eyewatering amount of money has already been pissed away on this insanity.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:58 pm
by Hal Jordan
It's almost as if Brexit was the stupidest, shittest idea since we decided to teach the Egyptians a lesson about a canal and found out just how much our power had waned since the Victoriam heyday of Empire engorged flagshaggers everywhere.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2023 5:00 pm
by SaintK
He really isn't very good at the PR stuff with the "common man in the street" Even forgot he was now PM and not chancellor!!
In another all-round-awkward photoshoot for Sunak, he mistakenly referred to himself as the chancellor, his last job, before he was loudly heckled while pulling a pint of Black Dub stout at the Great British beer festival in west London.
As he poured the beer, part of a visit to promote changes to alcohol duty, Sunak was greeted by a shout of: “Prime minister, oh the irony that you’re raising alcohol duty on the day that you’re pulling a pint.”
After pulling the pint of stout made by the Wensleydale brewery based in his Yorkshire constituency, Sunak was asked by GB News to name his favourite pub, beginning the answer with: “Well, I’m a teetotal chancellor …
fishfoodie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:30 pm
Unsurprising they sneaked this story out over the summer recess.
UK government climbs down on post-Brexit product mark
Adoption of Britain-only rival to EU’s CE designation postponed ‘indefinitely’, say ministers
The UK government has bowed to pressure from businesses and dropped rules to force companies to use a new post-Brexit replacement for the EU’s “CE” product quality mark.
The “indefinite” postponement was widely welcomed by industry and came after more than two years of intense lobbying to abandon the new rules.
The government has long portrayed the UKCA safety mark as a way the country can “take back control of our product regulations” in the wake of Brexit.
But the plans to establish a rival to the CE mark, which assures the safety of electronic, industrial and consumer goods, have been deeply unpopular with manufacturers and traders who see them as an additional burden.
The government said that under the indefinite delay, businesses would be free to use either the UKCA or the CE mark when placing goods on the UK market.
Kevin Hollinrake, business minister, said the decision was taken to reduce “red tape” on business and to “prevent a cliff-edge moment” ahead of the planned introduction of UKCA from the start of 2025.
....
fishfoodie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:30 pm
Unsurprising they sneaked this story out over the summer recess.
UK government climbs down on post-Brexit product mark
Adoption of Britain-only rival to EU’s CE designation postponed ‘indefinitely’, say ministers
The UK government has bowed to pressure from businesses and dropped rules to force companies to use a new post-Brexit replacement for the EU’s “CE” product quality mark.
The “indefinite” postponement was widely welcomed by industry and came after more than two years of intense lobbying to abandon the new rules.
The government has long portrayed the UKCA safety mark as a way the country can “take back control of our product regulations” in the wake of Brexit.
But the plans to establish a rival to the CE mark, which assures the safety of electronic, industrial and consumer goods, have been deeply unpopular with manufacturers and traders who see them as an additional burden.
The government said that under the indefinite delay, businesses would be free to use either the UKCA or the CE mark when placing goods on the UK market.
Kevin Hollinrake, business minister, said the decision was taken to reduce “red tape” on business and to “prevent a cliff-edge moment” ahead of the planned introduction of UKCA from the start of 2025.
....
fishfoodie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 4:30 pm
Unsurprising they sneaked this story out over the summer recess.
UK government climbs down on post-Brexit product mark
Adoption of Britain-only rival to EU’s CE designation postponed ‘indefinitely’, say ministers
The UK government has bowed to pressure from businesses and dropped rules to force companies to use a new post-Brexit replacement for the EU’s “CE” product quality mark.
The “indefinite” postponement was widely welcomed by industry and came after more than two years of intense lobbying to abandon the new rules.
The government has long portrayed the UKCA safety mark as a way the country can “take back control of our product regulations” in the wake of Brexit.
But the plans to establish a rival to the CE mark, which assures the safety of electronic, industrial and consumer goods, have been deeply unpopular with manufacturers and traders who see them as an additional burden.
The government said that under the indefinite delay, businesses would be free to use either the UKCA or the CE mark when placing goods on the UK market.
Kevin Hollinrake, business minister, said the decision was taken to reduce “red tape” on business and to “prevent a cliff-edge moment” ahead of the planned introduction of UKCA from the start of 2025.
....
I'm sure an eyewatering amount of money has already been pissed away on this insanity.
There is now no practical reason not to return formally to the single market.
There is on the EU side.
They've had to deal with this bullshit for years, spent billions on accommodating the UKs fit of pique, & will need to be convinced that the UK won't be in & out of the SM like a jockeys bollox, every election cycle.
I'm sure an eyewatering amount of money has already been pissed away on this insanity.
There is now no practical reason not to return formally to the single market.
There is on the EU side.
They've had to deal with this bullshit for years, spent billions on accommodating the UKs fit of pique, & will need to be convinced that the UK won't be in & out of the SM like a jockeys bollox, every election cycle.
I actually agree that reasonably the EU/EEA nations would want to see a settled political consensus in favour ( so we are years away) but I think the UK economy inside the EEA (not full EU membership) would be welcomed by everybody.
United Nations Secretary General Antonio Guterres: “By announcing hundreds of new oil and gas licences, the PM, Rishi Sunak, has become a dangerous radical pursuing moral and economic madness”
Just for anyone else who thought this unlikely, the quote is from 2022 and does not name Rishi Sunak.
Actual sourced quote:
Climate activists are sometimes depicted as dangerous radicals. But, the truly dangerous radicals are the countries that are increasing the production of fossil fuels.
Investing in new fossil fuels infrastructure is moral and economic madness.
The truly dangerous radicals are the countries that are increasing the production of fossil fuels,” Guterres said in 2022
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2023 8:46 pm
by _Os_
tc27 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 7:48 pm
a settled political consensus in favour ( so we are years away)
The "political consensus in favour" part is what's often ignored. It means nothing will change in the 2020s.
If you want to vote to join the SM, there's no party clearly offering it. The Tories and Labour are ruling it out. Greens have a confusing position and have inherited a lot of Labour's traditional anti-Europe outlook (capitalist plot etc). Lib Dems are the most pro, but they want to win Tory voters, it ends up hard to know what their position is beyond being the most pro-EU among anti-EU parties.
On the other hand, the ERG/Tory far right, know they can permanently block any pro-EU move if they never move from their hard Brexit position, blocking any consensus forming which isn't theirs. Everything points to the Tory leader after Sunak being another headbanger. If the Tory far right remains anti-EU and exists, then EU members are going to be less keen.
If Starmer/Labour form a government but fall short of expectations (they likely will, it's impossible to immediately undo the damage of the 2008 GFC/austerity/Brexit), UK politics would further fragment as people turn against the Tories and Labour. Traditionally the far left and far right have been anti-Europe, and would both grow in this scenario.
There is now no practical reason not to return formally to the single market.
There is on the EU side.
They've had to deal with this bullshit for years, spent billions on accommodating the UKs fit of pique, & will need to be convinced that the UK won't be in & out of the SM like a jockeys bollox, every election cycle.
I actually agree that reasonably the EU/EEA nations would want to see a settled political consensus in favour ( so we are years away) but I think the UK economy inside the EEA (not full EU membership) would be welcomed by everybody.
Surely they could come up with a clever treaty that keeps us in the SM but with a name that implies the opposite like "Great Britain Freedom Sovereignty Princess Diana treaty" then whenever the Brexit loons complain about it the govt can retort that they must be against freedom, sovereignty and Princess Di
I have to agree - primary role of any Gov, regardless of colour, is to protect the population from harm. I suspect this current lot have forgot this?
The science is now pretty conclusive (it has been for some time) about global warming and climate change and what the likely outcomes are going to be, the speed and specifics are still unclear but if anything it looks like things are accelerating not slowing down. The recent stats about hottest day/month/year on record, fires burning across the Med and North America, flooding in Italy, etc is pretty scary. What any decent Gov should be doing is being clear about the scale and urgency of the problem and try to get some sort of cross party alliance and agreement, as we have had for wars and pandemics, around those actions that are just non-negotiable and get on with them asap. However I suspect our current Gov is either full of climate change deniers or is being held hostage by them, funded by dark oil money. Also there is now zero trust in the bunch of wankers that currently make up the cabinet even within their own party let alone the opposition so I cant see anyone willing to work alongside them. I am sure that many of the Tory bastards, sorry MPs, still believe Cameron was right with his "Green Crap' approach and even if they had seen the light, and the numerous scientific research papers, they couldn't possibly admit they were wrong and the woke, tofu eating, Guardian reading, socialist 'Stop the Oil' protestors were right all along. They will just dig the trenches deeper for the woke war to come ... dont look up!
I think there's a few other factors at work, a key one being the mindset of 'why should we do this when it's China/India etc etc currently making most of the mess'
Even in this flawed context, a forward-thinking person might have concluded that being a global incubator for green technology would be a Very Good Thing.
I'd like to see the stats that tend to be shown on carbon emissions by country at least have alongside it the consumer country as well as the producer country.
Gut feel suggests that if we looked by consumer rather that producer that it would tell a different picture.
Different picture yes, but not as big a difference as you’d think.
Summary would be; it knocks some shine off the west’s virtue signalling of CO2 reductions, but China and India are still the biggest producers even after that is taken into account.
They've had to deal with this bullshit for years, spent billions on accommodating the UKs fit of pique, & will need to be convinced that the UK won't be in & out of the SM like a jockeys bollox, every election cycle.
I actually agree that reasonably the EU/EEA nations would want to see a settled political consensus in favour ( so we are years away) but I think the UK economy inside the EEA (not full EU membership) would be welcomed by everybody.
Surely they could come up with a clever treaty that keeps us in the SM but with a name that implies the opposite like "Great Britain Freedom Sovereignty Princess Diana treaty" then whenever the Brexit loons complain about it the govt can retort that they must be against freedom, sovereignty and Princess Di
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:15 pm
by Rhubarb & Custard
_Os_ wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 8:46 pm
Lib Dems are the most pro, but they want to win Tory voters, it ends up hard to know what their position is beyond being the most pro-EU among anti-EU parties.
The Lib Dems are happily returning to being a plural party, one which campaigns with different ideas in different constituencies in the same election.
It's rather bonkers, it also lacks some element of democracy per se. But it's much easier to unite the factions if everyone pretends everyone else isn't doing something different
Mahoney wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 3:19 pm
Actual sourced quote:
Climate activists are sometimes depicted as dangerous radicals. But, the truly dangerous radicals are the countries that are increasing the production of fossil fuels.
Investing in new fossil fuels infrastructure is moral and economic madness.
The truly dangerous radicals are the countries that are increasing the production of fossil fuels,” Guterres said in 2022
Yes, I literally quoted it in the bit you are replying to. You'll note that's the only link to anything he's said in that Guardian article, and that in the opening sentence where they disingenuously imply he was directly & personally criticising Sunak in response to Sunak's recent policy announcement they carefully only put quotation marks around the bits from the 2022 article.
It's perfectly reasonable to draw the conclusion that Guterres ought to think that about Sunak, given what he said in 2022, but that's all that can be said - Guterres hasn't made a further statement directly calling Sunak a dangerous radical pursuing moral and economic madness, which isn't surprising given he's UN Secretary General and Sunak is political leader of a country with a seat on the security council. Be pretty astonishing if he did.
The truly dangerous radicals are the countries that are increasing the production of fossil fuels,” Guterres said in 2022
Yes, I literally quoted it in the bit you are replying to. You'll note that's the only link to anything he's said in that Guardian article, and that in the opening sentence where they disingenuously imply he was directly & personally criticising Sunak in response to Sunak's recent policy announcement they carefully only put quotation marks around the bits from the 2022 article.
It's perfectly reasonable to draw the conclusion that Guterres ought to think that about Sunak, given what he said in 2022, but that's all that can be said - Guterres hasn't made a further statement directly calling Sunak a dangerous radical pursuing moral and economic madness, which isn't surprising given he's UN Secretary General and Sunak is political leader of a country with a seat on the security council. Be pretty astonishing if he did.
Huh? The article could not be clearer these are comments made in 2022?
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2023 10:31 pm
by Rhubarb & Custard
Sunak isn't so much a dangerous radical as a dangerous conservative, or just a conservative, wedded to doing things the way they've always been done, and doing it really badly. Which is why Norway did something useful with O&G and we've spaffed it up the wall.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2023 10:35 pm
by C69
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 10:31 pm
Sunak isn't so much a dangerous radical as a dangerous conservative, or just a conservative, wedded to doing things the way they've always been done, and doing it really badly. Which is why Norway did something useful with O&G and we've spaffed it up the wall.
Tbh I just want competence, the Tory Party have not demonstrated any competency for half a decade
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2023 10:44 pm
by Mahoney
Simian wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 9:38 pm
Huh? The article could not be clearer these are comments made in 2022?
Of course it could. if you only read the first headline, sub head & first 2 paragraphs, as many people will have done, they won't have even got to the 2022 mention, they'll just have read this:
Sunak’s new oil and gas licences are ‘moral and economic madness’
PM becomes ‘dangerous radical’, in words of UN chief, by backing fossil fuels incompatible with net zero goals
By announcing hundreds of new oil and gas licences, the prime minister, Rishi Sunak, has become a “dangerous radical” pursuing “moral and economic madness”.
That is not the judgment of Just Stop Oil, or any other environmental campaign group, but the United Nations secretary general, António Guterres.
Read that in isolation (and to repeat it is the opening of the article so when you first read it it will be in isolation) and you'd assume that Guterres was speaking after Sunak's policy announcements and directly criticising Sunak.
Only when you read on do you realise (well, if you have decent reading comprehension...) that they are extrapolating his current views on Sunak from statements made in 2022.
Obviously the article could have been clearer, because it could have opened with:
"In 2022, the United Nations secretary general, António Guterres, declared that 'the truly dangerous radicals are the countries that are increasing the production of fossil fuels. Investing in new fossil fuels infrastructure is moral and economic madness'. As that is now Rishi Sunak's policy, the only logical conclusion is that Guterres should now consider him a 'dangerous radical' pursuing 'moral and economic madness'."
Then there'd be no question about the order of events and the degree of editorialising.
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 10:31 pm
Sunak isn't so much a dangerous radical as a dangerous conservative, or just a conservative, wedded to doing things the way they've always been done, and doing it really badly. Which is why Norway did something useful with O&G and we've spaffed it up the wall.
Tbh I just want competence, the Tory Party have not demonstrated any competency for half a decade
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2023 10:31 pm
Sunak isn't so much a dangerous radical as a dangerous conservative, or just a conservative, wedded to doing things the way they've always been done, and doing it really badly. Which is why Norway did something useful with O&G and we've spaffed it up the wall.
Tbh I just want competence, the Tory Party have not demonstrated any competency for half a decade
I just want a plan. Any plan. Just rudderless.
Lock up climate protesters for 2-3 years, brutalise asylum seekers, demonise the Other and minorities, avoid all scrutiny and line their pockets.
That's the plan.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2023 9:03 am
by Sandstorm
Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 02, 2023 7:06 am
Lock up climate protesters for 2-3 years, brutalise asylum seekers, demonise the Other and minorities, avoid all scrutiny and line their pockets.
That's the plan.
Just a few years ago that was the plan in Zimbabwe and there was a (fairly) massive outcry from the Britain public.
