NPR

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:26 pm And if we are back to pre-pandemic, why are so many people still struggling?

Boat people

tc27 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:42 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:26 pm And if we are back to pre-pandemic, why are so many people still struggling?

Inflation and (ironically) stagnant wages.

And this is why I don't understand economics. By what measure is the economy back to pre-pandemic levels if people other than bankers (with their relatively freshly uncapped bonuses) are real terms poorer?

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:24 pm

tc27 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 1:34 pm So everything we thought we knew about the economy and GDP for the last two years turns out to have being wrong.

What's this about? Are we saying the government have made up some numbers and are now promoting this narrative or are these independent figures and we are actually doing better than we though?

Genuine question, genuinely confused.

ONS keeps cocking up its initial data, then with a bit more time and more data has to substantially revise it. The figures are independent.
Moral of the story, never move something to Wales

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:26 pm And if we are back to pre-pandemic, why are so many people still struggling?

Changes in the economy aren’t evenly distributed. Energy prices hit the poor and manufacturing harder than they hit the wealthy and professional services, for example. The truth of the current squeeze is that most people are still doing fine.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 3:14 pm

tc27 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:42 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:26 pm And if we are back to pre-pandemic, why are so many people still struggling?

Inflation and (ironically) stagnant wages.

And this is why I don't understand economics. By what measure is the economy back to pre-pandemic levels if people other than bankers (with their relatively freshly uncapped bonuses) are real terms poorer?

GDP only measures the total value of the goods/services produced. It says nothing about what is beneath the hood.

Using an extreme (but current) example. Sanctions on Russia were predicted to have had more impact than has so far been the case, but when you look under the hood parts of their GDP are now "haul out old rusting tank from storage, fix it up and send it into Ukraine where it is blown up inside a month". Adding value to that good (the tank) is counted in Russia's GDP figure. Anyone with a functioning brain knows in reality the refurbished tank has added not much to Russia's economy, but in GDP terms it has added x million. Looking at GDP alone you may think Russia's economy is doing not so bad, but under the hood it's a disaster.

Back to the UK. If a car factory closes down, and in its place there's a combination of retail and low end services (hairdressers, warehouses, etc). The GDP remains the same if the past value of the car factory's goods output matches the value of output from all those new services. It's not measuring things like high paying jobs being replaced by more jobs but at lower pay, or if debt is funding the goods/services produced, or new barriers to trade make some sectors of an economy uncompetitive (the car factory).

The last time I looked at this the UK's GDP growth seemed to track immigration, as more workers are added the UK economy grows by a corresponding amount.

GDP is just a crude measure of economic activity - for instance an economist I follow has being saying for a while that tax receipts were indicating GDP data has being wrong for a while.

tc27 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 4:56 pm GDP is just a crude measure of economic activity - for instance an economist I follow has being saying for a while that tax receipts were indicating GDP data has being wrong for a while.

It's impossible for a single number to distill all economic activity. A total waste of everyone's time. Even the guy who created GBP as a measurement thinks so.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 4:36 pm The last time I looked at this the UK's GDP growth seemed to track immigration, as more workers are added the UK economy grows by a corresponding amount.

It is fairly outstanding how outdated headline GDP as a number is in modern times as scope for comparison has improved. The latest revision has UK GDP tracking France since Q4 19, whilst France has had 500k fewer immigrants (majority of course working age adults). Strip out non-metropolitian France and the per capita view still leaves UK really wanting

Invariably any pre-2023 comparatives will be rubbish for a bit and a lot of learning and standardising to be done. Other countries still working through their interpretation of GDP and we may bounce around

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 4:29 pm ONS keeps cocking up its initial data, then with a bit more time and more data has to substantially revise it. The figures are independent.
Moral of the story, never move something to Wales

Incidentally, for some portions related, a lot of this is a reversal of the 1.7% blue book adjustment last year... so the initial data was correct (headline, subject to further revision, differing factors, blah blah blah)

I like neeps wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 5:59 pm

tc27 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 4:56 pm GDP is just a crude measure of economic activity - for instance an economist I follow has being saying for a while that tax receipts were indicating GDP data has being wrong for a while.

It's impossible for a single number to distill all economic activity. A total waste of everyone's time. Even the guy who created GBP as a measurement thinks so.

GDP, at least in PPP, still a necessary simple high level tool? Who can do/make what/how much/etc, with what economic base? Waste is a very strong word.

TheNatalShark wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 7:12 pm

_Os_ wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 4:36 pm The last time I looked at this the UK's GDP growth seemed to track immigration, as more workers are added the UK economy grows by a corresponding amount.

It is fairly outstanding how outdated headline GDP as a number is in modern times as scope for comparison has improved. The latest revision has UK GDP tracking France since Q4 19, whilst France has had 500k fewer immigrants (majority of course working age adults). Strip out non-metropolitian France and the per capita view still leaves UK really wanting

Invariably any pre-2023 comparatives will be rubbish for a bit and a lot of learning and standardising to be done. Other countries still working through their interpretation of GDP and we may bounce around

There's been attempts to replace it, HDI is the most well known but HDI suffers from losing a lot of meaning when comparing highly developed nations. GDP pops up a lot in UK politics because on the nominal value the UK is ranked 6th, this sounds impressive until it's pointed out the US and China are multiples larger, to such an extent 6th may as well be 5th or 7th or 10th. GDP PPP per capita shows a different picture (UK is currently 29th), and gets closer to the productivity issue you're describing. But no one in the UK is going to use a metric that places the UK 29th, especially when it also places Ireland 1st.

There's just a lot of powerful forces that don't want any change in the UK, this can be seen in the concentration of media ownership etc. GDP is useful to them because if the UK is 6th and has an average performance or not that far below average performance, then nothing needs to change and the structure of the UK economy is totally fine. That includes mass immigration continuing because that's what maintains/increases GDP, that includes London/South East dominating for the same reason. Everything we're seeing in UK politics points towards that being the political consensus. Besides Labour getting into power no significant changes look at all likely, just more of the same.

GDP PPP per capita seems like the best way of using GDP to me, the cost of living/inflation differences are stripped out and the comparison to different sized economies becomes a bit more useful. On that way of looking at GDP the UK is at risk of falling behind multiple Eastern European countries.

Almost all the other European and G7 comparators re the G7 numbers are also revising their own numbers so expect everyone to move their initial assessment upwards as per the UK. These figures move around for some time as more data becomes available. Experts still expect the UK to be towards or at the bottom of the pile for GDP growth and the main reason being .... Brexit and the self imposed trade barriers.

Everyone with any interest in the subject knows that GDP doesn't capture all aspects of a country's success or even economic success. But it's easy to measure and so is difficult (but not impossible) to doctor or make up. Because it's such a simple measure, it's easy to judge if there's been any shenanigans involved in measuring it. It's stood the test of time - it's been measured the same way over time and across countries so, knowing its limitations, it's provides a great basis for comparison across history and geography.

And even if it doesn't measure everything, it's highly very correlated with most quality of life metrics. Countries with low GDP tend to be unpleasant places to live and visa-versa.

Everyone now and then suggests an alternative which has none of these properties and usually involves a whole load of subjective inputs (e.g. polling people on how they feel about things) which are subject to a whole load of cultural influences. Or someone while chime up with a variant of the broken window paradox - without actually understanding that it's a paradox.

It's like liberal democracy, not perfect but the best we've come up so far. There's no consensus that it's "useless".

dpedin wrote: ↑Sat Sep 02, 2023 10:29 am Almost all the other European and G7 comparators re the G7 numbers are also revising their own numbers so expect everyone to move their initial assessment upwards as per the UK. These figures move around for some time as more data becomes available. Experts still expect the UK to be towards or at the bottom of the pile for GDP growth and the main reason being .... Brexit and the self imposed trade barriers.

From what I understand the UK was the outlier in the way it compiled and thus this was just the correction. Trade barriers certainly are a factor but we are not now performing noticeably worse in GDP terms than major EU economies so its not that clear cut.

Really we in Europe have fallen way behind the US and are now relatively poor in comparison. Working yfor a UK/US company really has opened my eyes. My US colleagues in the same approximate job role all have huge houses, at least one 'luxury' hobby (motorboats ETC) and loads of disposable income. The company also has to pay the health insurance costs as part of the employment package.

tc27 wrote: ↑Sat Sep 02, 2023 12:25 pm

dpedin wrote: ↑Sat Sep 02, 2023 10:29 am Almost all the other European and G7 comparators re the G7 numbers are also revising their own numbers so expect everyone to move their initial assessment upwards as per the UK. These figures move around for some time as more data becomes available. Experts still expect the UK to be towards or at the bottom of the pile for GDP growth and the main reason being .... Brexit and the self imposed trade barriers.

From what I understand the UK was the outlier in the way it compiled and thus this was just the correction. Trade barriers certainly are a factor but we are not now performing noticeably worse in GDP terms than major EU economies so its not that clear cut.

Really we in Europe have fallen way behind the US and are now relatively poor in comparison. Working yfor a UK/US company really has opened my eyes. My US colleagues in the same approximate job role all have huge houses, at least one 'luxury' hobby (motorboats ETC) and loads of disposable income. The company also has to pay the health insurance costs as part of the employment package.

All countries revise their GDP figures - here is paper on who and how much as compared to the UK. The UK does seem to be a bit more accurate but even then it makes international comparisons difficult in short term?

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdom ... 2016-04-28

derriz wrote: ↑Sat Sep 02, 2023 10:52 am Or someone while chime up with a variant of the broken window paradox - without actually understanding that it's a paradox.

It's the opposite of a paradox, it's a fallacy ("the broken window fallacy"). A paradox is something that seems wrong but is actually true, a fallacy is something that seems true but is actually wrong. The broken window is about it seeming to be true that replacing the broken window helps the economy, but this actually being wrong. The guy who came up with it even singled out war costs as being harmful, my Russian tank example isn't a variant of the broken window, it's in the original 19th century example.

Russia has blown out their deficit, their debt to GDP is the highest since the mid-2000s, and their foreign exchange reserve is frozen or has a growing non-US$/non-Euro component (in both cases good luck to them using that to do anything). None of that will show up in GDP, 2022 was a good year for Russian GDP. I did say it was an extreme example, to help someone understand what GDP captures and what it doesn't.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Sat Sep 02, 2023 1:01 pm

derriz wrote: ↑Sat Sep 02, 2023 10:52 am Or someone while chime up with a variant of the broken window paradox - without actually understanding that it's a paradox.

It's the opposite of a paradox, it's a fallacy ("the broken window fallacy").

Correct.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Sat Sep 02, 2023 1:01 pm

derriz wrote: ↑Sat Sep 02, 2023 10:52 am Or someone while chime up with a variant of the broken window paradox - without actually understanding that it's a paradox.

It's the opposite of a paradox, it's a fallacy ("the broken window fallacy"). A paradox is something that seems wrong but is actually true, a fallacy is something that seems true but is actually wrong. The broken window is about it seeming to be true that replacing the broken window helps the economy, but this actually being wrong. The guy who came up with it even singled out war costs as being harmful, my Russian tank example isn't a variant of the broken window, it's in the original 19th century example.

Russia has blown out their deficit, their debt to GDP is the highest since the mid-2000s, and their foreign exchange reserve is frozen or has a growing non-US$/non-Euro component (in both cases good luck to them using that to do anything). None of that will show up in GDP, 2022 was a good year for Russian GDP. I did say it was an extreme example, to help someone understand what GDP captures and what it doesn't.

It'll be, interesting, to see how the impact of sanctions plays out in Russia over the next few years.

They've already destroyed the Nordstream pipelines in a fit of pique, & their economy is completely dependent on revenue from fossil fuels & other natural resources. Everything I've read says that critical elements of these industries need equipment & parts & services that are now embargoed, so like their aviation & other industries, they can only scavenge parts & slap on the duct tape & try to maintain production.

sefton wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 4:16 am What a shambles from the DFE, the issue around RAAC has been known about for years but capital investment has been cut to the bone so it has not been dealt with. I was on a DFE conference call back in March about the rebuilding programme they announced and there was an acknowledgment that this was as a major issue as any school that is in the programme but did not have RAAC in its estate was told they would be at the back of the queue. Yet with a couple of days before the start of the new academic year schools are told to shut buildings and make new arrangements, all within their existing budgets.

The more I hear about this, the more it sounds like this is going to be an colossally expensive issue to remediate.

Hunt on Laura K refusing to say how many schools, let alone other public buildings, are involved, but others are talking thousands, which isn't an unbelievable number, when you're talking about a building element that was used for ~50 years, & even the newest buildings are now at the end of the life; & now it's again, unsurprisingly revealed that 80% of the ~100 schools that they've highlighted as an immediate risk, also contain asbestos, so remediation is going to be a colossal pain in the hole.

Bottom line, this is going to last decades, & cost tens of billions, & none of it is budgeted for.

So, if I read the limited news I have seen about this it only arose as a known issue in 2018, not before?

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 12:34 pm So, if I read the limited news I have seen about this it only arose as a known issue in 2018, not before?

Well a curious mind might ask why exactly the building industry ceased using RAAC in the 1990s ?

[Edit] And then note that RAAC was always reckoned to have a ~30 year lifespan

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 12:41 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 12:34 pm So, if I read the limited news I have seen about this it only arose as a known issue in 2018, not before?

Well a curious mind might ask why exactly the building industry ceased using RAAC in the 1990s ?

[Edit] And then note that RAAC was always reckoned to have a ~30 year lifespan

Although it would be expensive, no doubt a fudge and resisted by this current shitshamble of a Government, sounds like grounds for a Public Inquiry alright

[EDIT] and with hindsight of course this doesn't look good

2011 -"Under the £55bn scheme introduced by Labour, every secondary school in England was to be either rebuilt or refurbished. More than 700 schools' building projects were cancelled when the scheme was scrapped in July [2011]"

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 12:50 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 12:41 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 12:34 pm So, if I read the limited news I have seen about this it only arose as a known issue in 2018, not before?

Well a curious mind might ask why exactly the building industry ceased using RAAC in the 1990s ?

[Edit] And then note that RAAC was always reckoned to have a ~30 year lifespan

Although it would be expensive, no doubt a fudge and resisted by this current shitshamble of a Government, sounds like grounds for a Public Inquiry alright

[EDIT] and with hindsight of course this doesn't look good

2011 -"Under the £55bn scheme introduced by Labour, every secondary school in England was to be either rebuilt or refurbished. More than 700 schools' building projects were cancelled when the scheme was scrapped in July [2011]"

That's exactly where it should end up, but you can expect the Tories to fight like hell against it.

The asbestos is a real spanner in the works for any remediation, as it's removal is specialist operation, which is really disruptive, & not something you want to even try doing in a building that's is use. I doubt the UK has even close to enough of these specialists to deal with the massive task ahead, so which building gets done first will be a real battle, with every Minister & MP trying to get their school to the front of the queue.

It's also going to do wonders for the head boys pledge to cut NHS waiting lists, with this same shite in use in hospitals, & clinics, across the country.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 1:27 pm
The asbestos is a real spanner in the works for any remediation, as it's removal is specialist operation, which is really disruptive, & not something you want to even try doing in a building that's is use. I doubt the UK has even close to enough of these specialists to deal with the massive task ahead, so which building gets done first will be a real battle, with every Minister & MP trying to get their school to the front of the queue.

It's also going to do wonders for the head boys pledge to cut NHS waiting lists, with this same shite in use in hospitals, & clinics, across the country.

After first trying to contract the work to friends/relatives/donors companies....

A good article in the Times

Scientists identified RAAC as a safety issue in the 1990s but the full danger became apparent in 2018 when a roof collapsed at Singlewell Primary in Gravesend, Kent — fortunately on a Saturday.

The National Audit Office estimated that 24,000 school buildings — 38 per cent — had exceeded their initial life span.
A government survey of schools was carried out over the past year to identify the presence of RAAC. At the start of summer, with 6,300 schools questioned, 572 with suspected RAAC were identified, with 8,600 yet to respond. More detailed investigations then found that 156 schools had confirmed RAAC, with about 60 of these at critical risk.

https://archive.ph/96q4w

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 1:35 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 1:27 pm
The asbestos is a real spanner in the works for any remediation, as it's removal is specialist operation, which is really disruptive, & not something you want to even try doing in a building that's is use. I doubt the UK has even close to enough of these specialists to deal with the massive task ahead, so which building gets done first will be a real battle, with every Minister & MP trying to get their school to the front of the queue.

It's also going to do wonders for the head boys pledge to cut NHS waiting lists, with this same shite in use in hospitals, & clinics, across the country.

After first trying to contract the work to friends/relatives/donors companies....

Not by chance, the mob had a significant interest in asbestos removal in the US east coast. It was just too attractive as a job you could charge the earth for, but then employ monkeys, & pay them peanuts for doing it badly & completely without the necessary safety measures, & then to put the tin hat on it, they'd dump the waste illegally, instead of paying the price for it's proper disposal in a licensed site.

I have an asbestos roof on my ancient garage, the cost for a domestic safe and licensed removal is astronomic considering ease of removal and the amount of material. I don't know how much unlawful dumping there is here, but council tips are pretty strict about how they will accept it.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 12:50 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 12:41 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 12:34 pm So, if I read the limited news I have seen about this it only arose as a known issue in 2018, not before?

Well a curious mind might ask why exactly the building industry ceased using RAAC in the 1990s ?

[Edit] And then note that RAAC was always reckoned to have a ~30 year lifespan

Although it would be expensive, no doubt a fudge and resisted by this current shitshamble of a Government, sounds like grounds for a Public Inquiry alright

[EDIT] and with hindsight of course this doesn't look good

2011 -"Under the £55bn scheme introduced by Labour, every secondary school in England was to be either rebuilt or refurbished. More than 700 schools' building projects were cancelled when the scheme was scrapped in July [2011]"

Killing that program looked bad at the time too as anyone in education told them. It's typical Tory 'price of everything, value of nothing' carry on. Yeah, 55 billion isn't a sum to be sniffed at, but the gradual replacement and refurbishment over years is less expensive both directly and indirectly than waiting 'til things hit a crisis point and turfing kids out 0f 100+ schools all in one go, then trying to find alternative provisions for them while desperately overdue work is conducted.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 2:04 pm I have an asbestos roof on my ancient garage, the cost for a domestic safe and licensed removal is astronomic considering ease of removal and the amount of material. I don't know how much unlawful dumping there is here, but council tips are pretty strict about how they will accept it.

My friend says hire a skip and put the asestos at the bottom and fill the skip up

C69 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 2:22 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 2:04 pm I have an asbestos roof on my ancient garage, the cost for a domestic safe and licensed removal is astronomic considering ease of removal and the amount of material. I don't know how much unlawful dumping there is here, but council tips are pretty strict about how they will accept it.

My friend says hire a skip and put the asestos at the bottom and fill the skip up

Sounds legit

C69 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 2:22 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 2:04 pm I have an asbestos roof on my ancient garage, the cost for a domestic safe and licensed removal is astronomic considering ease of removal and the amount of material. I don't know how much unlawful dumping there is here, but council tips are pretty strict about how they will accept it.

My friend says hire a skip and put the asestos at the bottom and fill the skip up

It's not just the disposal, the removal can be dicey as well and you need the garage completely cleared, everything soaking wet and wearing the correct PPE. Saying that I got a quote for removal and disposal of £520, which I thought was reasonable.

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 3:05 pm

C69 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 2:22 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 2:04 pm I have an asbestos roof on my ancient garage, the cost for a domestic safe and licensed removal is astronomic considering ease of removal and the amount of material. I don't know how much unlawful dumping there is here, but council tips are pretty strict about how they will accept it.

My friend says hire a skip and put the asestos at the bottom and fill the skip up

It's not just the disposal, the removal can be dicey as well and you need the garage completely cleared, everything soaking wet and wearing the correct PPE. Saying that I got a quote for removal and disposal of £520, which I thought was reasonable.

That's not a bad price, quote for mine was over £1000, so either they were taking the mick or the cost is higher in the "wealthy" SE

Did dispose a small piece of the "safer" asbestos myself for free at the council tip but it had to be securely bagged and intact, give name and address etc.
Obviously possible to DIY if you either follow the strict guidelines with PPE and cut the costs out but at risk if you're just a chancer

C69 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 2:22 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 2:04 pm I have an asbestos roof on my ancient garage, the cost for a domestic safe and licensed removal is astronomic considering ease of removal and the amount of material. I don't know how much unlawful dumping there is here, but council tips are pretty strict about how they will accept it.

My friend says hire a skip and put the asestos at the bottom and fill the skip up

I heard there was a twat in Oundle who recounts a tale removing asbestos wearing scuba diving kit

Gillian Keegan, Secretary of State for Education, has maintained radio silence Thursday. Accountability!

Apparently a fair few letters have found their way to Brady as well over the ECHR.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 4:56 pm Gillian Keegan, Secretary of State for Education, has maintained radio silence Thursday. Accountability!

Apparently a fair few letters have found their way to Brady as well over the ECHR.

Having Cruella in the Cabinet, let alone in one of the great offices of state is grounds enough to send in a letter. It shows a breathtaking lack of judgement.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 5:21 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 4:56 pm Gillian Keegan, Secretary of State for Education, has maintained radio silence Thursday. Accountability!

Apparently a fair few letters have found their way to Brady as well over the ECHR.

Having Cruella in the Cabinet, let alone in one of the great offices of state is grounds enough to send in a letter. It shows a breathtaking lack of judgement.

Her latest wheeze is commissioning a report into how the Police have become politicised.

And by politicised, we mean occasionally taking the knee, having a stand at Pride events etc.

She has a howling void where her soul should be.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 6:00 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 5:21 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 4:56 pm Gillian Keegan, Secretary of State for Education, has maintained radio silence Thursday. Accountability!

Apparently a fair few letters have found their way to Brady as well over the ECHR.

Having Cruella in the Cabinet, let alone in one of the great offices of state is grounds enough to send in a letter. It shows a breathtaking lack of judgement.

Her latest wheeze is commissioning a report into how the Police have become politicised.

And by politicised, we mean occasionally taking the knee, having a stand at Pride events etc.

She has a howling void where her soul should be.

Christian fundamentalists frequently do.

Hunt told the BBC’s Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg that he would not speculate on the potential cost of fixing the problem, but said: “We will spend what it takes to make sure children can go to school safely, yes.”

But hours later, Treasury sources briefed that any such funding will come from the Department for Education’s existing budget for buildings – and not from additional funds.

Whitehall sources said schools, academies and local authorities forced to bus their pupils to alternative sites will not be given extra cash either.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... in-schools

Cunt by name, Cunt by nature !

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 7:52 pm

Hunt told the BBC’s Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg that he would not speculate on the potential cost of fixing the problem, but said: “We will spend what it takes to make sure children can go to school safely, yes.”

But hours later, Treasury sources briefed that any such funding will come from the Department for Education’s existing budget for buildings – and not from additional funds.

Whitehall sources said schools, academies and local authorities forced to bus their pupils to alternative sites will not be given extra cash either.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... in-schools

Cunt by name, Cunt by nature !

So just teach them at home using Zoom again. Cheap.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 7:52 pm

Hunt told the BBC’s Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg that he would not speculate on the potential cost of fixing the problem, but said: “We will spend what it takes to make sure children can go to school safely, yes.”

But hours later, Treasury sources briefed that any such funding will come from the Department for Education’s existing budget for buildings – and not from additional funds.

Whitehall sources said schools, academies and local authorities forced to bus their pupils to alternative sites will not be given extra cash either.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... in-schools

Cunt by name, Cunt by nature !

Worth remembering private schools are charities including Eton.

Surely even diehard Tories can't fall for the "But Labour! But Corbyn!" line on this

Government 'halved funding for rebuilding schools'

Jonathan Slater, who was the top civil servant at the Department for Education from May 2016 to August 2020, tells the Today programme a survey of schools was carried out about 10 years ago and a second was commissioned in his time. These showed the the scale of the rebuilding programme needed.

According to that, 300 to 400 schools needed to be repaired per year "because of the system the schools were built with was post-war concrete and it was only supposed to live for 30-40 years".

When they went to the Treasury, they got funding to rebuild 100 schools per year.

"It was frustrating when your priority was safety," he says. Slater says the education department saw the benefits of the program but "the challenge was to face the chancellor".

In 2021, they wanted to be realistic and asked the government to double the 100 schools to 200. "We know 300 to 400 needed, but the actual ask in 2021 was to double the 100 to 200. I thought we'd get it but the actual decision made in 2021 was to halve down from 100 a year to 50 year," he adds.

And he reminds the programme that the chancellor then was Rishi Sunak.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-66701626