NPR

Posted: **Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:07 am**

One of the wings anyway

Posted: **Fri Sep 22, 2023 11:15 am**

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 9:31 am Yeah. Manu's not justified the hype around his performances at this world cup - the media/English disease of praising a storied player for existing and doing basic shit - and Lawrence absolutely should be in his place for the big games. Even though he's probably better at 13, I think he's a better 12 than Manu.

But we'll get Ford - Farrell - Manu, with Lawrence as the backup 13 if Manu is injured during the week, and Marchant either benching or on the wing.

Daly's had a terrible time of things so here's hoping 13 goes well for him, because if he's going to continue being first choice on the wing he needs some form.

My suspicion is Daly is there to keep the 60m pen in the back pocket. Not saying it’s my call, but that’s my assumption given our attacking prowess

Posted: **Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:03 pm**

Does anyone have stats on his accuracy? My impression is he misses more than he gets at 50m+ and thus it's not that useful an attribute to have.

Posted: **Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:04 pm**

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 9:31 am Yeah. Manu's not justified the hype around his performances at this world cup - the media/English disease of praising a storied player for existing and doing basic shit - and Lawrence absolutely should be in his place for the big games. Even though he's probably better at 13, I think he's a better 12 than Manu.

But we'll get Ford - Farrell - Manu, with Lawrence as the backup 13 if Manu is injured during the week, and Marchant either benching or on the wing.

Daly's had a terrible time of things so here's hoping 13 goes well for him, because if he's going to continue being first choice on the wing he needs some form.

Ugh. You're right, but ugh.

We should be going with Ford - Lawrence - Marchant.

Posted: **Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:14 pm**

Fair point about his goalkicking.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:03 pm Does anyone have stats on his accuracy? My impression is he misses more than he gets at 50m+ and thus it's not that useful an attribute to have.

He's missed a fair number in the last few years but for a long while he was astonishingly accurate at that range.

Posted: **Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:29 pm**

I think the bigger attraction with him these days is having a left footed kicker in the backline to grubber away more attacking ball.

Posted: **Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:30 pm**

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:29 pm I think the bigger attraction with him these days is having a left footed kicker in the backline to grubber away more attacking ball.

This

Posted: **Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:08 pm**

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:03 pm Does anyone have stats on his accuracy? My impression is he misses more than he gets at 50m+ and thus it's not that useful an attribute to have.

I also wonder. It's a bit like Roberto Carlos who scored one screamer from about 30 metres out then spent an entire career knocking out kids in row M

Posted: **Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:09 pm**

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:08 pm
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:03 pm Does anyone have stats on his accuracy? My impression is he misses more than he gets at 50m+ and thus it's not that useful an attribute to have.
I also wonder. It's a bit like Roberto Carlos who scored one screamer from about 30 metres out then spent an entire career knocking out kids in row M

To be fair, if I scored a goal like that I'd probably spend much of my career trying to replicate it.

Posted: **Fri Sep 22, 2023 5:15 pm**

Farrell really should be stating his case with the proper English backline. So Youngs, Tuilagi, Marchant, may, daly, Steward.

Posted: **Fri Sep 22, 2023 5:28 pm**

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:08 pm
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:03 pm Does anyone have stats on his accuracy? My impression is he misses more than he gets at 50m+ and thus it's not that useful an attribute to have.
I also wonder. It's a bit like Roberto Carlos who scored one screamer from about 30 metres out then spent an entire career knocking out kids in row M

His international rate is exactly 50% - 7/14 pens, 1/2 conversions. Not bad considering those pens are almost always well behind halfway.

Posted: **Fri Sep 22, 2023 5:50 pm**

Slick wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 3:08 pm
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 12:03 pm Does anyone have stats on his accuracy? My impression is he misses more than he gets at 50m+ and thus it's not that useful an attribute to have.
I also wonder. It's a bit like Roberto Carlos who scored one screamer from about 30 metres out then spent an entire career knocking out kids in row M

There’s the psychological aspect of this though - football teams defend a man with a 30 yard screamer in them differently to other players, likewise rugby teams defend differently if there’s a legitimate chance of conceding 3 points from nowhere (even if it’s not a banker)

Posted: **Fri Sep 22, 2023 6:57 pm**

Glaws running them in against Quins

Posted: **Fri Sep 22, 2023 7:05 pm**

I'm a fan of Lynagh, but his defence was poor there

Posted: **Fri Sep 22, 2023 7:37 pm**

Even if you miss the 60m penalty, you likely get possession back 20-30 yards further up the pitch.

Posted: **Sat Sep 23, 2023 12:47 pm**

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2023 2:29 pm I think the bigger attraction with him these days is having a left footed kicker in the backline to grubber away more attacking ball.

Or, more accurately, bounce it off the shins of a defender and have to turn around to try and regather it.

Posted: **Sat Sep 23, 2023 5:56 pm**

Got through unscathed and ran up a stack of tries, that's all you can ask for.

Posted: **Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:46 pm**

Not that I'm expecting to, but if we make it to the semi finals, we're not getting through. SA and Ire are both vastly better than us.

Posted: **Sat Sep 23, 2023 9:34 pm**

Raggs wrote: ↑Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:46 pm Not that I'm expecting to, but if we make it to the semi finals, we're not getting through. SA and Ire are both vastly better than us.

Yeah but thats true of everyone else save France.

Posted: **Sun Sep 24, 2023 9:16 am**

Did we learn anything from yesterday?

Arundell was doing Arundell things and should have been starting in place.
Willis was doing Willis things in defence
Smith did Smith things of position.

Etc.

Posted: **Sun Sep 24, 2023 9:18 am**

We learned that there's a 99.9% chance our midfield going forward will be Ford-Farrell.

Posted: **Sun Sep 24, 2023 11:05 am**

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 9:18 am We learned that there's a 99.9% chance our midfield going forward will be Ford-Farrell.

Borthwick has basically said Farrel's the automatic choice for captain and he starts come what may, so he will be there somewhere.

Posted: **Sun Sep 24, 2023 11:07 am**

With the Smith thing likely an audition for bench 15 'game changer' cover, I think this is the backline we'll see

Mitchell
Ford
May
Farrell
Marchant/Tuilagi
Arundell
Steward

As above, just can't see him not reverting to Ford/Farell. Guessing Arundell has done enough and hoping it's Marchant, rather than Tuilagi at 13. Smith as 15 cover does give you the option of going 6:2, although Borthwick strikes me as more of a traditionalist.

Posted: **Sun Sep 24, 2023 11:11 am**

As much as I like Marchant, I think he makes way for Tuilagi or Lawrence. He's most useful when the man inside him can punch holes or hold the defence's attention with the threat of doing so. I'd prefer Lawrence, but suspect Borthwick will go with Tuilagi because why break the habit of not selecting on form?

Posted: **Sun Sep 24, 2023 11:27 am**

geordie_6 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 24, 2023 9:16 am Did we learn anything from yesterday?

Arundell was doing Arundell things and should have been starting in place.
Willis was doing Willis things in defence
Smith did Smith things of position.

Etc.

Watching bits of it now - our fitness looks pretty good

Posted: **Wed Sep 27, 2023 2:09 pm**

shit's getting real -Bath have submitted the planning application for the Rec redevelopment.

https://www.bathrugby.com/news/stadium- ... plication/

Anyone who wants to experience a match on temporary scaffold terracing, drinking beer bought from a tent and watching two teams slog their way round a waterlogged clay mudbath had perhaps better go soon.

Posted: **Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:13 pm**

We are through...not a given a few months ago.

Posted: **Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:41 pm**

tc27 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:13 pm We are through...not a given a few months ago.

Top of the pool too, so Fiji or Australia.

Posted: **Fri Sep 29, 2023 7:11 am**

Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:41 pm
tc27 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:13 pm We are through...not a given a few months ago.
Top of the pool too, so Fiji or Australia.

Mission accomplished.

You can only beat what’s put in front of you. Fitness and intensity has been much better than expected and we’d all have taken the margins of victory. Fiji are the best side in Pool C and their back row will take some beating, but the tournament has opened up somewhat.

I have my worries about the Samoa game. They were inches away from complete head loss against Japan, and I wonder if now they’re out we’ll see them try and leave a mark on the tournament by aiming for the head. Hopefully Lawes etc get a rest

Posted: **Fri Sep 29, 2023 8:29 am**

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 7:11 am
Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:41 pm
tc27 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:13 pm We are through...not a given a few months ago.
Top of the pool too, so Fiji or Australia.
Mission accomplished.

You can only beat what’s put in front of you. Fitness and intensity has been much better than expected and we’d all have taken the margins of victory. Fiji are the best side in Pool C and their back row will take some beating, but the tournament has opened up somewhat.

I have my worries about the Samoa game. They were inches away from complete head loss against Japan, and I wonder if now they’re out we’ll see them try and leave a mark on the tournament by aiming for the head. Hopefully Lawes etc get a rest

I'd back Wales beating us more than Fiji to be honest. Fiji to beat Wales, but Wales beat us more easily I reckon. That's not to say I'm overly confident we can beat Fiji, but I think it's a better match for us.

Posted: **Fri Sep 29, 2023 9:15 am**

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 7:11 am
Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:41 pm
tc27 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:13 pm We are through...not a given a few months ago.
Top of the pool too, so Fiji or Australia.
Mission accomplished.

You can only beat what’s put in front of you. Fitness and intensity has been much better than expected and we’d all have taken the margins of victory. Fiji are the best side in Pool C and their back row will take some beating, but the tournament has opened up somewhat.

I have my worries about the Samoa game. They were inches away from complete head loss against Japan, and I wonder if now they’re out we’ll see them try and leave a mark on the tournament by aiming for the head. Hopefully Lawes etc get a rest

I can still remember the 1995 pool game between England and Western Samoa (as it then was) which was brutal. England had so many injuries during the game that we ended the match with a makeshift back row which included Kyran Bracken and Brian Moore. That was also the final pool game (we won 44 -22)

Posted: **Fri Sep 29, 2023 1:10 pm**

Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 8:29 am
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 7:11 am
Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:41 pm

Top of the pool too, so Fiji or Australia.
Mission accomplished.

You can only beat what’s put in front of you. Fitness and intensity has been much better than expected and we’d all have taken the margins of victory. Fiji are the best side in Pool C and their back row will take some beating, but the tournament has opened up somewhat.

I have my worries about the Samoa game. They were inches away from complete head loss against Japan, and I wonder if now they’re out we’ll see them try and leave a mark on the tournament by aiming for the head. Hopefully Lawes etc get a rest
I'd back Wales beating us more than Fiji to be honest. Fiji to beat Wales, but Wales beat us more easily I reckon. That's not to say I'm overly confident we can beat Fiji, but I think it's a better match for us.

Hmm we’ve been pretty dominant over Wales during what has otherwise been a deeply bleak period. They can say the same about us and Argentina, no doubt, but Australia were desperate. Plus they should have lost to Fiji.
Botia is giving me nightmares tbh

Posted: **Fri Sep 29, 2023 1:52 pm**

tc27 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:13 pm We are through...not a given a few months ago.

Typical English arrogance, qualifying without a ball being kicked (repeatedly, for 80 minutes).

Posted: **Fri Sep 29, 2023 1:56 pm**

Tuisava and Nayacalevu could make any England center pairing look rather silly also.

Tuisava gets all the plaudits but I really rate Nayacalevu’s performances so far this WC

Posted: **Fri Sep 29, 2023 2:21 pm**

Sinkers wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 1:56 pm Tuisava and Nayacalevu could make any England center pairing look rather silly also.

Tuisava gets all the plaudits but I really rate Nayacalevu’s performances so far this WC

Yeah, but the same can also be true in reverse - they are prone to dumb shit and defensively are sometimes hilarious.

Our defence hasn't been tested since we got to the world cup so I'm under no illusions that Fiji can tear us open. They can do that to anyone. But it seems likely that they'd struggle with our kicking game and we're probably going to be a bit better than we were when we lost to them. So I'd make England favourites for that one, if not by a lot. Certainly would be no surprise to lose.

Posted: **Fri Sep 29, 2023 3:05 pm**

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 7:11 am
Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:41 pm
tc27 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:13 pm We are through...not a given a few months ago.
Top of the pool too, so Fiji or Australia.
Mission accomplished.

You can only beat what’s put in front of you. Fitness and intensity has been much better than expected and we’d all have taken the margins of victory. Fiji are the best side in Pool C and their back row will take some beating, but the tournament has opened up somewhat.

I have my worries about the Samoa game. They were inches away from complete head loss against Japan, and I wonder if now they’re out we’ll see them try and leave a mark on the tournament by aiming for the head. Hopefully Lawes etc get a rest

Hopefully we rest everyone we possibly can for what is basically a nothing game.

Posted: **Fri Sep 29, 2023 3:29 pm**

I think Wales would beat us right now..Gatland is just a better coach than Bortwick and they are executing the 'kick and be very fit' gameplan much better than us.

Think we could beat Fiji TBH. But the semi wouod be like an express train coming down a tunnel towards us

Posted: **Fri Sep 29, 2023 3:34 pm**

I don't think there's a right approach to who plays/rests when it comes to the Samoa game. You want them to play to be rugby fit, you want them to rest to avoid fatigue and even injury. It's a messy situation that can result in a lot of people claiming they were right after the fact and that the coach is a know-nothing fiasco.

Posted: **Fri Sep 29, 2023 5:16 pm**

tc27 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 3:29 pm I think Wales would beat us right now..Gatland is just a better coach than Bortwick and they are executing the 'kick and be very fit' gameplan much better than us.

Think we could beat Fiji TBH. But the semi wouod be like an express train coming down a tunnel towards us

Tbh I think Gats and Borthwick have done a very similar job. We’re unlikely to find out in a direct contest but you’d back both to make the semis from here, which isn’t a bad outcome

Posted: **Fri Sep 29, 2023 5:51 pm**

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 1:52 pm
tc27 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:13 pm We are through...not a given a few months ago.
Typical English arrogance, qualifying without a ball being kicked (repeatedly, for 80 minutes).

"England" and "without a ball being kicked" just doesn't parse right for me. It's the worst non-sequitur I've seen, in fact.

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