The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Tichtheid]

I've said a few times that if only we had the backs we have now with the packs we had back then...

If my aunty had baws, I know, but in the professional era we've never had a complete team - yet.

In terms of recent era players I wish we had in our team now, Jason White is definitely in the top three.

Just coz it’s midweek and there is no news yet on the team,

My pro era pack would be Schoeman, Bulloch, Euan Murray, Scott Murray, Nathan Hines, Jason White, Mish, Simon Taylor

[I like neeps]

Oh good, three NSQs at TH for Glasgow and one injury away from Elliot Millar-Mills starting for Scotland.

I saw that Ferrie, Samuels, and Williamson are training with the national squad for exposure. Here's an idea for getting them exposure. Stop signing guys like Greg Peterson and Hanco Venter and let them play real rugby. Scotland's poor youth development continues.

[Big D]

I've said a few times that if only we had the backs we have now with the packs we had back then...

If my aunty had baws, I know, but in the professional era we've never had a complete team - yet.

In terms of recent era players I wish we had in our team now, Jason White is definitely in the top three.

Just coz it’s midweek and there is no news yet on the team,

My pro era pack would be Schoeman, Bulloch, Euan Murray, Scott Murray, Nathan Hines, Jason White, Mish, Simon Taylor

For gits and shiggles:
Smith
Rambo (the version from the 18months where he was very good).
Murray
Gray Snr
Hines
White
Rennie - He could turnover ball but was also able to link play.
Taylor

Bulloch, Schoeman, Nel, Murray and Barclay on bench.

[westport]

Hive Stadium will host Scotland U20 and the World Rugby U20 Trophy this July as eight international age-grade sides fight for promotion to the World Rugby U20 Championship in 2025.

Played over four match days at Hive Stadium (2-17 July), Scotland will hope to make the most of home advantage to claim the title and return to the U20 Championship for the first time since they were relegated in 2018.

Kenny Murray’s side been placed in Pool A with Japan, Hong Kong China and the Oceania qualifier while the Pool B will see U20 Trophy debutants the Netherlands facing Uruguay and qualified teams from Africa and North America.

While five teams are already confirmed, three nations must still qualify via regional competitions in Africa, North America and Oceania.

Samoa and Tonga will meet in the Oceania play-off on 8 March in Auckland, New Zealand with the winner joining the U20 Trophy line-up, while Africa will be represented by the U20 Barthés Trophy champion and North America by the winner of a play-off between Canada and USA.

The World Rugby U20 Trophy 2024 participating teams are: Japan (relegated from the U20 Championship in 2023), Scotland (hosts), Hong Kong China (Asia), Netherlands (Europe), Uruguay (South America) and Africa, North America and Oceania representatives.

[Biffer]

We all knew that was coming! We’ll see some good rugby hopefully, but this is also a vital competition for us.

[Tichtheid]

In terms of recent era players I wish we had in our team now, Jason White is definitely in the top three.

Just coz it’s midweek and there is no news yet on the team,

My pro era pack would be Schoeman, Bulloch, Euan Murray, Scott Murray, Nathan Hines, Jason White, Mish, Simon Taylor

For gits and shiggles:
Smith
Rambo (the version from the 18months where he was very good).
Murray
Gray Snr
Hines
White
Rennie - He could turnover ball but was also able to link play.
Taylor

Bulloch, Schoeman, Nel, Murray and Barclay on bench.

I didn’t get as far as the bench but we have pretty much the same players if I’d included the five extras. I considered Rennie but his injury record made me discard him. Rambo was terrific but my memory of Bulloch throwing to Murray is that was our best ever lineout.
As much as I love WP Nel, and thank dog he was available for Scotland in his prime, because we had no one else bar a callow Fagerson, I think Fagerson offers more around the park.

Barclay v Kelly Brown is too close to call for me. Beattie jnr should have been held in the same esteem as Parisse, by all accounts it all came too easy to him and he never really had to try so he never got to the level he could have.

[Tichtheid]

Hive Stadium will host Scotland U20 and the World Rugby U20 Trophy this July as eight international age-grade sides fight for promotion to the World Rugby U20 Championship in 2025.

Played over four match days at Hive Stadium (2-17 July), Scotland will hope to make the most of home advantage to claim the title and return to the U20 Championship for the first time since they were relegated in 2018.

Kenny Murray’s side been placed in Pool A with Japan, Hong Kong China and the Oceania qualifier while the Pool B will see U20 Trophy debutants the Netherlands facing Uruguay and qualified teams from Africa and North America.

While five teams are already confirmed, three nations must still qualify via regional competitions in Africa, North America and Oceania.

Samoa and Tonga will meet in the Oceania play-off on 8 March in Auckland, New Zealand with the winner joining the U20 Trophy line-up, while Africa will be represented by the U20 Barthés Trophy champion and North America by the winner of a play-off between Canada and USA.

The World Rugby U20 Trophy 2024 participating teams are: Japan (relegated from the U20 Championship in 2023), Scotland (hosts), Hong Kong China (Asia), Netherlands (Europe), Uruguay (South America) and Africa, North America and Oceania representatives.

Ya dancer, if “ The Plan” works out in terms of time, I’ll back living near Embra in time for that

[clydecloggie]

Hive Stadium will host Scotland U20 and the World Rugby U20 Trophy this July as eight international age-grade sides fight for promotion to the World Rugby U20 Championship in 2025.

Played over four match days at Hive Stadium (2-17 July), Scotland will hope to make the most of home advantage to claim the title and return to the U20 Championship for the first time since they were relegated in 2018.

Kenny Murray’s side been placed in Pool A with Japan, Hong Kong China and the Oceania qualifier while the Pool B will see U20 Trophy debutants the Netherlands facing Uruguay and qualified teams from Africa and North America.

While five teams are already confirmed, three nations must still qualify via regional competitions in Africa, North America and Oceania.

Samoa and Tonga will meet in the Oceania play-off on 8 March in Auckland, New Zealand with the winner joining the U20 Trophy line-up, while Africa will be represented by the U20 Barthés Trophy champion and North America by the winner of a play-off between Canada and USA.

The World Rugby U20 Trophy 2024 participating teams are: Japan (relegated from the U20 Championship in 2023), Scotland (hosts), Hong Kong China (Asia), Netherlands (Europe), Uruguay (South America) and Africa, North America and Oceania representatives.

Ya dancer, if “ The Plan” works out in terms of time, I’ll back living near Embra in time for that

While it's great to see this comp in Scotland, I remain miffed that Scotland is in it because they have no claim to be one of the competing teams. Pure Tier 1 apartheid this.

[Tichtheid]

While it's great to see this comp in Scotland, I remain miffed that Scotland is in it because they have no claim to be one of the competing teams. Pure Tier 1 apartheid this.

I thought we might have to play off against another team to qualify for this, but after getting stuck in a pool of death at the RWC I’ll take this small crumb, presumably we qualify as hosts, as they always do.

By the looks of things from last Friday we have a pack that should serve us well this summer, if not against the 19 year old orcs from the other 6N countries

[Slick]

Bit of Jason White for you.

And yet look how comparatively low he was hitting compared to today.

Quite. he, himself, made the same point yesterday

[Big D]

Just coz it’s midweek and there is no news yet on the team,

My pro era pack would be Schoeman, Bulloch, Euan Murray, Scott Murray, Nathan Hines, Jason White, Mish, Simon Taylor

For gits and shiggles:
Smith
Rambo (the version from the 18months where he was very good).
Murray
Gray Snr
Hines
White
Rennie - He could turnover ball but was also able to link play.
Taylor

Bulloch, Schoeman, Nel, Murray and Barclay on bench.

I didn’t get as far as the bench but we have pretty much the same players if I’d included the five extras. I considered Rennie but his injury record made me discard him. Rambo was terrific but my memory of Bulloch throwing to Murray is that was our best ever lineout.
As much as I love WP Nel, and thank dog he was available for Scotland in his prime, because we had no one else bar a callow Fagerson, I think Fagerson offers more around the park.

Barclay v Kelly Brown is too close to call for me. Beattie jnr should have been held in the same esteem as Parisse, by all accounts it all came too easy to him and he never really had to try so he never got to the level he could have.

Lots of close calls.
My reasoning, and it is very subjective:
Smith would fit very well into modern rugby (maybe struggle in the scrum due to size). Very mobile and good hands which is a big benefit as we see with Ireland and their props.
I may be misremembering but for 18 months or so, Rambo was one of the best hookers around, certainly of the home nations. I never felt Bulloch quite had the same peak, although he probably has a higher overall baseline of performance.
WP was pretty good around the park before his neck injury, and his set piece (peak) was better than Fagerson.
Murray v Gray is probably my closest selection.
If discarding Rennie due to injury then I'd start Barclay and bench Brown.

[Slick]

I still can't get my head around Scott Murray, the quiet skinny lad that turned up at the rugby club and I took under my wing, being a couple of years older, and spent many nights on the piss with, becoming a player who would be picked in a best ever side.

[Jock42]

I still can't get my head around Scott Murray, the quiet skinny lad that turned up at the rugby club and I took under my wing, being a couple of years older, and spent many nights on the piss with, becoming a player who would be picked in a best ever side.

Subtle "you're all due me a beer" post.

[Slick]

I still can't get my head around Scott Murray, the quiet skinny lad that turned up at the rugby club and I took under my wing, being a couple of years older, and spent many nights on the piss with, becoming a player who would be picked in a best ever side.

Subtle "you're all due me a beer" post.

Ha. It was definitely more my apres rugby skills that impressed him than my actual rugby ones!

[Tichtheid]

I've just seen this thing on FB from a couple of days ago, wishing David Denton a happy 34th birthday - he was forced out the game in September 2019.

It struck me because 34 is far younger than I would have answered if asked how old he is - when I think about the subject, the risk these guys take makes me wince. I don't know how comfortable I'm going to be with it and for how long, especially when you see the hits to the head going either unpunished or ludicrously light suspensions handed down by the various panels.

[KingBlairhorn]

In didn't see the second half - presumably more good stuff undone by the lineout and daft mistakes?

Some very frustrating errors in the bits of the 2nd half I saw. Lots of decent stuff too though.

I also missed the second half but I saw enough to think this crop are better than previous years.

Apparently, and this is just a rumour, Blyth-Lafferty was withdrawn not through injury but due to tournament rules. The chat is you have to be 18 to scrum in U20 rugby for player welfare reasons. Anyone else hear the same? Poor show from the coaches to make an error like that if true.

That rumour on selection in the front row as a teenager confirmed here:
https://www.scotlandrugbynews.com/news/ ... ny-murray/

[SomersetJock]

[quote=KingBlairhorn post_id=338120 time=<a href="tel:1706959548">1706959548</a> user_id=465]
[quote="Big D" post_id=338069 time=<a href="tel:1706913667">1706913667</a> user_id=371]
[quote=S/Lt_Phillips post_id=338057 time=<a href="tel:1706911398">1706911398</a> user_id=271]


In didn't see the second half - presumably more good stuff undone by the lineout and daft mistakes?

Some very frustrating errors in the bits of the 2nd half I saw. Lots of decent stuff too though.
[/quote]

I also missed the second half but I saw enough to think this crop are better than previous years.

Apparently, and this is just a rumour, Blyth-Lafferty was withdrawn not through injury but due to tournament rules. The chat is you have to be 18 to scrum in U20 rugby for player welfare reasons. Anyone else hear the same? Poor show from the coaches to make an error like that if true.
[/quote]

That rumour on selection in the front row as a teenager confirmed here:
https://www.scotlandrugbynews.com/news/ ... ny-murray/
[/quote]

Didn’t hear any announcements about a change in player when at the game, me and my mate were wondering where the tighthead was hiding his 130 kilos

[KingBlairhorn]

[quote=KingBlairhorn post_id=338120 time=<a href="tel:1706959548">1706959548</a> user_id=465]
[quote="Big D" post_id=338069 time=<a href="tel:1706913667">1706913667</a> user_id=371]
[quote=S/Lt_Phillips post_id=338057 time=<a href="tel:1706911398">1706911398</a> user_id=271]


In didn't see the second half - presumably more good stuff undone by the lineout and daft mistakes?

Some very frustrating errors in the bits of the 2nd half I saw. Lots of decent stuff too though.

I also missed the second half but I saw enough to think this crop are better than previous years.

Apparently, and this is just a rumour, Blyth-Lafferty was withdrawn not through injury but due to tournament rules. The chat is you have to be 18 to scrum in U20 rugby for player welfare reasons. Anyone else hear the same? Poor show from the coaches to make an error like that if true.
[/quote]

That rumour on selection in the front row as a teenager confirmed here:
https://www.scotlandrugbynews.com/news/ ... ny-murray/
[/quote]

Didn’t hear any announcements about a change in player when at the game, me and my mate were wondering where the tighthead was hiding his 130 kilos
[/quote]

To be fair, Norrie is big for a Scottish u20 too, he’s around 120kg. That’s as big as Zander.

[topofthemoon]

For Scotland Rugby News, part 1 of the match preview for Scotland v France this Saturday.

- 500 championship matches;
- why it's likely to take a high score to beat France;
- previous history with referee, Nic Berry.

https://www.scotlandrugbynews.com/analy ... r-referee/

[topofthemoon]

Taking a look at Scotland's 19 infringements v Wales - trying to focus on what improvements need to be made for the visit of France:

https://www.scotlandrugbynews.com/analy ... s-victory/

[Jock42]

Anybody else had an email from viaplay saying they've tried, unsuccessfully, to take payment? Had a DD for 3 years but now I need to enter card details.

Obviously I didn't try anything through the email in case it was a scam but my account details confirmed there's no payment details anymore.

[KingBlairhorn]

The changes to the team are broadly as expected then. Surprised to see Turner keep his spot but given Toonie doesn’t seem to trust Matthews yet and Asman remains inexperienced I guess it shouldn’t be a surprise. Not surprised to see Dempsey in at 8, not surprised to see Darge in at 7 after our breakdown issues in Cardiff and Fagerson was really excellent last week where Richie wasn’t so he is also a fair pick. Christie on the bench makes sense as he is much more dynamic than Richie IMO.

The only real surprise for me is the 5/3 split; cautiously pleased to see it as it hopefully suggests a plan to play our game, not try to out bosh France. Ireland did that pretty effectively last week so fingers crossed it’s a good strategy.

[Big D]

Said this on the match thread thread.

Darge really needs to have a break out 6N/international season and be the 7 we all think he can be at that level.

Need a lot more from the back row than a high tackle count from each of them this week.

Game will rise or fall up front.

[Biffer]

Lengthy quotes from Townsend on the offside line website. Doesn’t seem to think there was a discipline problem. Mental.

[Tichtheid]

Lengthy quotes from Townsend on the offside line website. Doesn’t seem to think there was a discipline problem. Mental.

Whilst agreeing that he should 'fess up that discipline, or playing to the ref is a problem - can you imagine the press and social media reaction if South Africa, New Zealand, Ireland, England or France had conceded a 16-4 penalty count and 14 in a row during the match?

It's unprecedented at this level of rugby.

There is another article about Ritchie, I think he is hard done by to be honest, another referee would have awarded him at least two, possibly three jackal turnovers and that is a completely different match because of when they happened.

[Tichtheid]

Said this on the match thread thread.

Darge really needs to have a break out 6N/international season and be the 7 we all think he can be at that level.

Need a lot more from the back row than a high tackle count from each of them this week.

Game will rise or fall up front.

I agree on Darge, but I also think Fagerson needs to step up a notch.

[topofthemoon]

Lengthy quotes from Townsend on the offside line website. Doesn’t seem to think there was a discipline problem. Mental.

Got to say I do have some sympathy. 19 times they were pinged (16 pens, 2 others where advantage was over, 1 free kick).

5 at attacking rucks: 3 where there were Welsh offences that could as easily have been whistled. 1 where the ref just didn't see what actually happened. 1 so borderline with Scotland metres from a try it really stood out in comparison to the ref generally favouring the attacking team.

3 at scrums: 3 toss of a coin calls that could have gone against Wales or been reset on another day.

3 offsides: all 3 of a toe over the line nature. Would only take a few minutes to find instances of players in similar positions not getting penalised (including the very final play of the game and the Welshman who tackled van der Merwe on the goal line).

3 off feet, slowing ball at a tackle: 2 were 50/50, the other was a rank bad decision by the ref.

2 high tackles: both seatbelts and both marginal whether contact was actually made with the neck.

1 maul collapse: the only egregiously daft act.

1 contact in the air at the lineout: as soft as they come.

1 tackling while on the ground: after the ball was passed and wholly immaterial to the game.

After their review I think Scotland's work ons from the above won't really be related to discipline with the exception of take an extra step at rucks and don't do dumb shit with mauls that are travelling at speed (George...)

- better work to be in position to make clear outs, especially when breaks happen
- keep in the defensive line to avoid needing to make over the shoulder tackles

If even 3 or 4 of those decisions go Scotland's way it breaks Wales' momentum and the comeback doesn't happen.

That game could be replayed 100 times (same ref, different ref, whatever) and you wouldn't get a sequence of 17 infringements in a row going against Scotland. It's such a freak occurrence I don't think you can legislate or prepare for it.

[Yr Alban]

From what Finn was saying, ‘don’t hit rucks after being told not to’ probably needs to be on the list of instructions too.

[Biffer]

Lengthy quotes from Townsend on the offside line website. Doesn’t seem to think there was a discipline problem. Mental.

Got to say I do have some sympathy. 19 times they were pinged (16 pens, 2 others where advantage was over, 1 free kick).

5 at attacking rucks: 3 where there were Welsh offences that could as easily have been whistled. 1 where the ref just didn't see what actually happened. 1 so borderline with Scotland metres from a try it really stood out in comparison to the ref generally favouring the attacking team.

3 at scrums: 3 toss of a coin calls that could have gone against Wales or been reset on another day.

3 offsides: all 3 of a toe over the line nature. Would only take a few minutes to find instances of players in similar positions not getting penalised (including the very final play of the game and the Welshman who tackled van der Merwe on the goal line).

3 off feet, slowing ball at a tackle: 2 were 50/50, the other was a rank bad decision by the ref.

2 high tackles: both seatbelts and both marginal whether contact was actually made with the neck.

1 maul collapse: the only egregiously daft act.

1 contact in the air at the lineout: as soft as they come.

1 tackling while on the ground: after the ball was passed and wholly immaterial to the game.

After their review I think Scotland's work ons from the above won't really be related to discipline with the exception of take an extra step at rucks and don't do dumb shit with mauls that are travelling at speed (George...)

- better work to be in position to make clear outs, especially when breaks happen
- keep in the defensive line to avoid needing to make over the shoulder tackles

If even 3 or 4 of those decisions go Scotland's way it breaks Wales' momentum and the comeback doesn't happen.

That game could be replayed 100 times (same ref, different ref, whatever) and you wouldn't get a sequence of 17 infringements in a row going against Scotland. It's such a freak occurrence I don't think you can legislate or prepare for it.

Equally the ref was pinging Wales early on to the point he warned them after eight minutes. They adjusted to him, we didn’t.

[Tichtheid]

Just looking through some of the match stats from last week - Wales had 20 lineout throws compared to Scotland's 6.

Another stat that stands out is that Wales conceded 11 turnovers to Scotland's 4. I assume a good few of Wales' was down to their lineout

[Tichtheid]

Equally the ref was pinging Wales early on to the point he warned them after eight minutes. They adjusted to him, we didn’t.

He warned them that after three offsides the next one would be a yellow card, then didn't penalise them for another hour or so, despite there being a good few examples of the same type of "offside" that Cummings was pinged for and you can clearly hear O'Keefe telling Wales to get back onside "take a step red" after the warning.

I'm not exactly sure what adjustment Wales made.

[topofthemoon]

Equally the ref was pinging Wales early on to the point he warned them after eight minutes. They adjusted to him, we didn’t.

He warned them that after three offsides the next one would be a yellow card, then didn't penalise them for another hour or so, despite there being a good few examples of the same type of "offside" that Cummings was pinged for and you can clearly hear O'Keefe telling Wales to get back onside "take a step red" after the warning.

I'm not exactly sure what adjustment Wales made.

Aye, there's a fair number of those kinds of offsides at rucks by Wales subsequent to the warning. Also other infringements in a similar kind of vein, including:

Brown tackling van der Merwe from an offside position which led to a holding on pen; Wainwright entering the tackle area from Scotland’s side of the ball which led to the off feet pen against Ritchie; Assiratti - from the wrong side of a tackle - blocking Turner's clearout after Shug's break out of our 22.

My assumption is the 'don't compete' instruction came in after Turner got pinged for hands on the ground. The only one that would have been avoided was Ritchie's and the first offence at that tackle was blatantly Wainwright.

Taking an extra step after Cummings got done would have saved Tuipulotu's pen but he didn't look to be in a position other backs didn't regularly get into (including a wee false start and a step back) wide out from the ruck and nowhere near where any subsequent tackle happened.

[Tichtheid]

I was just re-reading article on Jamie Ritchie on TOL. Toonie says he expects Ritchie to play for Edinburgh next week, so we'll probably have Watson and Ritchie with points to prove and Big Bill making up the back row

[topofthemoon]

For Scotland Rugby News, part 1 of the match preview for Scotland v France this Saturday.

- 500 championship matches;
- why it's likely to take a high score to beat France;
- previous history with referee, Nic Berry.

https://www.scotlandrugbynews.com/analy ... r-referee/

Part 2 of the match preview:

- head to heads;
- 4th in the world hypothetical;
- red cards galore.

https://www.scotlandrugbynews.com/scotl ... ons-clash/

[Slick]

Anyone else heading to the game tomorrow?

[KingBlairhorn]

I feel a bit for the u20s here, 19-0 feels a bit harsh, they’ve played okay. France ruthless though and their backs are electric, Scotland have nobody with that kind of verve.

[S/Lt_Phillips]

Anyone else heading to the game tomorrow?

My fiancée is. Spare ticket from a colleague

[Yr Alban]

I feel a bit for the u20s here, 19-0 feels a bit harsh, they’ve played okay. France ruthless though and their backs are electric, Scotland have nobody with that kind of verve.

Watched the second half. Scotland genuinely played well, final score 29-14. Gave themselves too much to do in the end, but they showed a lot of heart and this wasn’t a shaming by any measure. Our No 10 will have nightmares about twice missing touch when kicking to the corner.

[KingBlairhorn]

I feel a bit for the u20s here, 19-0 feels a bit harsh, they’ve played okay. France ruthless though and their backs are electric, Scotland have nobody with that kind of verve.

Night and day between these u20s and the last few years IMO. That second half was good and a little bit more execution (4 kicked dead by Coates?) it might have been a one score game. The scrum was broadly good against the French monsters and the maul defence was excellent at times.

Perhaps things aren’t quite as bad as they seem.

[Yr Alban]

I feel a bit for the u20s here, 19-0 feels a bit harsh, they’ve played okay. France ruthless though and their backs are electric, Scotland have nobody with that kind of verve.

Night and day between these u20s and the last few years IMO. That second half was good and a little bit more execution (4 kicked dead by Coates?) it might have been a one score game. The scrum was broadly good against the French monsters and the maul defence was excellent at times.

Perhaps things aren’t quite as bad as they seem.

Maybe, just maybe, the Super 6 is actually working?