Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 7:31 am
Somewhat amusingly Sunak’s claiming that the money ‘saved’ from HS2 phase 2 will be spent on extending the Nottingham tram system to Clifton, which is funny because I could have sworn I was on a tram that terminated at Clifton on Monday
I saw this too:
What a total shower these cons are.
Just absolute bullshit they came up with in the hotel room in an attempt to diffuse criticism. Of the bits that might happen, the Midlands Rail Hub is already a work in progress or as you’ve pointed out some of these things are already built. For £2bn Leeds might get a couple of tram lines a la Birmingham and Nottingham, but it isn’t getting a metro network.
Network Rail weren’t consulted on “Network North”, and they’ve killed HS2 which was critical to adding the capacity they need to make any east/west link work.
And £2bn of the ‘long term’ money is to be spent on fixing potholes, last I checked that ought to be opex.
Oh, and given the majority of the money on phase 2 of HS2 wasn’t scheduled to be spent until the next Parliament anyway, any chance of things coming online quicker is pretty illusory anyway.
A national embarrassment that makes us all poorer. The press have to take a fair share of the blame for the fact this was even possible, the standard of their reporting on HS2 has been dismal, a phenomenally misunderstood project
Why would the small state, low tax campaigners in the national media be honest in their reporting of HS2 (or any infrastructure project) though?
The last thing the owners of the times, sun, telegraph, mail etc want is large state run investments.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 12:53 pm
by Raggs
This is a fantastic bit of ignoring reality:
One of them says he's scared whether he can get a job, a house, if he'll have to move a long way from home to find these things. Has it pointed out that the tories have been in charged for most his life, and just sort of glosses over that to say they've promised to fix it.
What exactly did he think they were promising to do before? Fuck it all up?
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 1:45 pm
by sockwithaticket
Punchable bunch of wankers who give me flashbacks to the kind of pricks who made me desperate to leave private school and go back to state. Strident in their opinions despite only being able to trippingly back them up, it's a sort of misplaced yet unerring confidence that's bred into them
Also, holy shit, that ginger lad who came on strong must be a one in a few million find - young, Scottish Tory.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 3:28 pm
by Slick
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 1:45 pm
Punchable bunch of wankers who give me flashbacks to the kind of pricks who made me desperate to leave private school and go back to state. Strident in their opinions despite only being able to trippingly back them up, it's a sort of misplaced yet unerring confidence that's bred into them
Also, holy shit, that ginger lad who came on strong must be a one in a few million find - young, Scottish Tory.
There was another one of these videos with a lad and Owen Jones, thought the lad more than held his own and made Jones look a bit pathetic.
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 1:45 pm
Punchable bunch of wankers who give me flashbacks to the kind of pricks who made me desperate to leave private school and go back to state. Strident in their opinions despite only being able to trippingly back them up, it's a sort of misplaced yet unerring confidence that's bred into them
Also, holy shit, that ginger lad who came on strong must be a one in a few million find - young, Scottish Tory.
There was another one of these videos with a lad and Owen Jones, thought the lad more than held his own and made Jones look a bit pathetic.
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 1:45 pm
Punchable bunch of wankers who give me flashbacks to the kind of pricks who made me desperate to leave private school and go back to state. Strident in their opinions despite only being able to trippingly back them up, it's a sort of misplaced yet unerring confidence that's bred into them
Also, holy shit, that ginger lad who came on strong must be a one in a few million find - young, Scottish Tory.
There was another one of these videos with a lad and Owen Jones, thought the lad more than held his own and made Jones look a bit pathetic.
That's not hard tbf.
There's a vid (part of the long video Refry posted, the clue is that Jones uploaded it himself), where someone with a particular point of view may think Jones was shown up. But if someone is talking about "natives" "homelands" and "aliens", it's fair to say Jones was probably happy to just let him run with it and do the talking. If Jones is on one side, and on the other is an ethno nationalist that seems keen on a bit of great replacement conspiracy theory (he talks about the white working class "being moved out"), then I'm definitely on the side of Jones.
Here is a senior political correspondent at the Express sharing the video, the account he's reposting is far right (tweets that are anti-Semitic, praising Hitler, etc), of course there's the always present Farage retweets too, even the tweet the Express journo shares uses the word "aryan" which should be a bit of a clue. Jones has pointed this out to him, yet the tweet remains up.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 4:46 pm
by _Os_
Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 7:22 am
That was likely a quip about Farage more than even a vague actual consideration. But too I don't see the practical point now in noting someone even if you liked their politics is dramatically unsuitable to a role as party leader, Boris and to a greater degree Trump have changed the game, all we can do is take the piss and that doesn't do much.
We've already had Truss, we're bound to get more people similarly unqualified for a senior executive role.
Gauke reckons that Farage will not want to join before the next election and be connected to that loss. Instead the next leader will very likely be someone that has to promise to let Farage join, as in it'll be a live question in the debates etc. Farage is then allowed in by whichever loony replaces Sunak, and then who knows from there.
There was another one of these videos with a lad and Owen Jones, thought the lad more than held his own and made Jones look a bit pathetic.
That's not hard tbf.
There's a vid (part of the long video Refry posted, the clue is that Jones uploaded it himself), where someone with a particular point of view may think Jones was shown up. But if someone is talking about "natives" "homelands" and "aliens", it's fair to say Jones was probably happy to just let him run with it and do the talking. If Jones is on one side, and on the other is an ethno nationalist that seems keen on a bit of great replacement conspiracy theory (he talks about the white working class "being moved out"), then I'm definitely on the side of Jones.
Here is a senior political correspondent at the Express sharing the video, the account he's reposting is far right (tweets that are anti-Semitic, praising Hitler, etc), of course there's the always present Farage retweets too, even the tweet the Express journo shares uses the word "aryan" which should be a bit of a clue. Jones has pointed this out to him, yet the tweet remains up.
I've Refry on ignore, so I hadn't seen it.
Don't get me wrong, Jones' heart is very much in the right place, but I don't often come across him making particularly good points. Even in the clip you've posted, while the other guy is clearly an arsehole of the highest order, Jones engages him with some fairly weaksauce stuff. The questions to clarify are fine and would've been enough on their own to let the muppet hang himself with his dodgy, Powell-inspired rhetoric.
There's a vid (part of the long video Refry posted, the clue is that Jones uploaded it himself), where someone with a particular point of view may think Jones was shown up. But if someone is talking about "natives" "homelands" and "aliens", it's fair to say Jones was probably happy to just let him run with it and do the talking. If Jones is on one side, and on the other is an ethno nationalist that seems keen on a bit of great replacement conspiracy theory (he talks about the white working class "being moved out"), then I'm definitely on the side of Jones.
Here is a senior political correspondent at the Express sharing the video, the account he's reposting is far right (tweets that are anti-Semitic, praising Hitler, etc), of course there's the always present Farage retweets too, even the tweet the Express journo shares uses the word "aryan" which should be a bit of a clue. Jones has pointed this out to him, yet the tweet remains up.
I've Refry on ignore, so I hadn't seen it.
Don't get me wrong, Jones' heart is very much in the right place, but I don't often come across him making particularly good points. Even in the clip you've posted, while the other guy is clearly an arsehole of the highest order, Jones engages him with some fairly weaksauce stuff. The questions to clarify are fine and would've been enough on their own to let the muppet hang himself with his dodgy, Powell-inspired rhetoric.
Yes, exactly right.
I was hoping that with normal people I wouldn’t have to clarify that you didn’t have to agree with mini Hitler to appreciate how weak Jones was on the clip, so get fucked Os
I was hoping that with normal people I wouldn’t have to clarify that you didn’t have to agree with mini Hitler to appreciate how weak Jones was on the clip, so get fucked Os
A lot of people have piled in on Jones, only to have to row back once they realised "who/what are we agreeing with to get one over Jones?". Even that Express journo hours later stated he maybe disagreed with the Tory boy, "I don't necessarily agree with the kid, but he's making well-thought-out and articulate points" (they weren't for what it is worth, as soon as Jones says "there's plenty of mixed relationships" he pivots from diversity being bad to claiming it's not good or bad, then works his way back to claiming it's bad by way of a perfect culture which has been corrupted/weakened ... the Tory boy is all over the place). The Express journo ends up making quite a strange point "I maybe disagree with that Tory boy, but he said those things I maybe think are wrong extremely well, i sure do disagree with Jones still somehow". All whilst boosting some guy waffling about "aryans".
Quite a lot of disingenuousness too, the Express journo and others just agreed with the Tory boy (he can only bring himself to say "I don't necessarily agree", which is it?). Once someone agrees with the Tory boy, that "aliens" are corrupting the culture of the "homeland" and taking something from the "natives", then what next?
Come now, Slick. The Tory boy was "mini Hitler" but the "lad more than held his own and made Jones look a bit pathetic". So you disagree with the Tory boy, but Jones is the pathetic one? Jones was mostly just letting the Tory boy speak to see what he had to say.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 6:30 pm
by Slick
You are a very strange person
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 6:37 pm
by Raggs
Tory boy is well spoken and articulate, but vapid. The problem is, Jones can often come across in a similar way (but he doesn't have the posh accent to make it all sound a bit better).
Would have thought an obvious question would have been if white British culture is the same as it was 50 years ago? If not, then what's the issue with change?
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 8:32 pm
by _Os_
Slick wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 6:30 pm
You are a very strange person
Coming to the conclusion "mini Hitler really showed Jones there", seems very strange to me. Shrug.
Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2023 6:37 pm
Tory boy is well spoken and articulate, but vapid. The problem is, Jones can often come across in a similar way (but he doesn't have the posh accent to make it all sound a bit better).
Would have thought an obvious question would have been if white British culture is the same as it was 50 years ago? If not, then what's the issue with change?
Jones wasn't in combative mode I don't think, there's plenty of videos of what he looks like when he's enraged in a TV studio. He was just throwing softballs to get a sense of what the delegates view of the world is, when Pickles got the Rwanda scheme totally wrong it was bemused dismissal from Jones.
Tory boy had some rehearsed talking points, that didn't fit together that well on any close inspection. It fell apart when Jones brought up mixed relationships and how they fit in (Jones said they were good), to be consistent Tory boy would have had to answer differently to how he did (but it's difficult to say two people loving eachother is bad). Not clear what policies would come from any of this and how he preserves his perfect culture.
Really easy to see how this party could become more loony yet.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2023 4:20 am
by Line6 HXFX
Tory boy superstar, doesn't even live in London ffs. He is just spouting rightwing, white supremacist, white replacement theory, and a bunch of cowardly saying nothing, but implying lots and lots , Jordan Peterson style bollocks.
"Oh it's really interesting that black people get worse results in school".
So you saying black people are less intelligent..using that old trope..
"God no..where did I say that?
Just saying black people don't achieve anywhere nearly as much as white people and its interesting.."
Hey its a marketable skill, in this day and age..I'll give them that. Spouting "interesting facts" from a position of academic aloofness..offering zero solutions, because the only solutions white, right wing, or white supremacist people come up with, (ie Petersons audience) are also very f'king "interesting".
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:07 am
by C69
Pretty massive turnaround for Labour and a kick in the balls for the SNP.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2023 10:47 am
by tabascoboy
C69 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 8:07 am
Pretty massive turnaround for Labour and a kick in the balls for the SNP.
Tories claiming their big drop in the vote was tactical voting to kick out the SNP, guess it's better than thinking the shitshow of the last few days had anything to do with it
It’s grimly funny, I take some satisfaction from the fact that he’s cancelled a project I thought was crucial and it’s torching his reputation, seemingly it’s another nail in his electoral coffin
It’s grimly funny, I take some satisfaction from the fact that he’s cancelled a project I thought was crucial and it’s torching his reputation, seemingly it’s another nail in his electoral coffin
He's also trying his damnedest to make sure that any future government can't restart the project. Bastard
It’s grimly funny, I take some satisfaction from the fact that he’s cancelled a project I thought was crucial and it’s torching his reputation, seemingly it’s another nail in his electoral coffin
He's also trying his damnedest to make sure that any future government can't restart the project. Bastard
Yeah I cannot work that bit out at all, seems to be no motive other than spite to it. We’ll still need the capacity north of Birmingham (incidentally the leg with the highest CBR was Brum - Leeds even though it was the first to be cancelled), so we’ll have to go back to the drawing board and come up with a delayed an expensive solution to work around this.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2023 10:14 am
by tabascoboy
While he has been pretty hopeless in senior posts, doesn't deserve this and I wish him the best in his fight against cancer
Former Transport Secretary Chris Grayling is to stand down as an MP at the end of this Parliament.
Mr Grayling, who also served as Leader of the House of Commons and Lord Chancellor, has been the MP for Epsom and Ewell in Surrey since 2001.
In a statement to his local Conservative constituency association on Friday he revealed the decision came following a prostate cancer diagnosis.
The association will now select a successor as Conservative candidate. In the statement Mr Grayling said: "Earlier this year I was diagnosed with prostate cancer, and although the treatment has been successful, it has prompted me to think that after 22 years it is time for a change. "I am very grateful to you for the support I have been given by you all over the years.
"I will obviously carry on working as normal until the election and will hope to see you at one of the upcoming events."
Mr Grayling's political career has not been without criticism, during his tenure as Transport Secretary he was dubbed "Failing Grayling" by opposition MPs.
It is just very, very embarrassing for everyone now! It is clear the Tories are in meltdown with everything from the 'illustrations' above to the meat tax and the 7 bins, RAAC, Education budget, etc debacles. Their conference was a disaster, poorly attended and a laughing stock to anyone watching - 'Stand Up and Fight' being the nadir for me. They are moving further and further right in order to find some ground to fight the election on and it looks like Farage is their latest gamble - bring him into the party and try and capture the Reform Party votes to boost their chances. I suspect this will happen in the weeks/months before the next GE in a last minute attempt to snatch victory, a bit like they did when Farage 'stood his party down' in run up to GE. I suspect and hope this will backfire disastrously for them. However in the interim we will see the Head Boy stumble on through one disaster after another and the public and business, here and overseas, increasingly lose faith with him and his party. It is going to be a slow and long painful death for him, his party and unfortunately for masses of the UK.
PS - If Farage gets anywhere near the Tory Party then their vote would collapse here in Scotland where the toad faced racist is despised and loathed, even by Tory voters.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2023 8:15 am
by Raggs
Farage won't come in yet, he knows they're going to lose this coming GE, and wouldn't want to be tainted with that. Instead he can come in just after, and get to potentially even be leader (certainly a prominent voice) for the whole of Labours government.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2023 8:53 am
by Paddington Bear
On that point, the Tory party is very vulnerable to entryism particularly after a likely electoral thrashing. There are what, 80,000 members? Doesn’t take a lot to double that
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2023 11:51 am
by I like neeps
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 8:53 am
On that point, the Tory party is very vulnerable to entryism particularly after a likely electoral thrashing. There are what, 80,000 members? Doesn’t take a lot to double that
I still doubt he has a path. Farage would have to join the conservative party, convince his fans to do so (I don't think he has enough who would pay to wait for him to take over the Tories), wait for a bye election, be selected by the local association (not very open to entryism I presume but could be wrong), the seat to be a high %™Brexit voting seat who still care about the issue when Brexit isn't a talking point anymore and regret for Brexit is increasing, then either try and unseat the leader and rely on those new faragist members to elect him leader. Also he'd have to keep his appeal as an anti- establishment firebrand whilst leader of the Tories. Which yes is possible as Johnson has done it but it's not easy. It's just not a viable path to power.
And also, he'd have to want to. He's not really that much of a political mover and shaker to go through all that. He's the firebrand outside the tent, it's not his style. He wants to be as disruptive as possible as a means unto itself.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2023 11:54 am
by David in Gwent
The current nightmare situation in the Middle East can't be good for Labour. I would suggest some of their mob are on a tight leash.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2023 11:59 am
by C69
David in Gwent wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 11:54 am
The current nightmare situation in the Middle East can't be good for Labour. I would suggest some of their mob are on a tight leash.
Given that Starmer has complete control of the Party and the prevailing mood following the hostage taking I doubt any dissent will be tolerated.
His wife is Jewish and his children are being raised in the Jewish faith.
David in Gwent wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 11:54 am
The current nightmare situation in the Middle East can't be good for Labour. I would suggest some of their mob are on a tight leash.
Given that Starmer has complete control of the Party and the prevailing mood following the hostage taking I doubt any dissent will be tolerated.
His wife is Jewish and his children are being raised in the Jewish faith.
Oh, there's already been a few incidents but it's being managed well and so far only Twitter is showing them.
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 8:53 am
On that point, the Tory party is very vulnerable to entryism particularly after a likely electoral thrashing. There are what, 80,000 members? Doesn’t take a lot to double that
I still doubt he has a path. Farage would have to join the conservative party, convince his fans to do so (I don't think he has enough who would pay to wait for him to take over the Tories), wait for a bye election, be selected by the local association (not very open to entryism I presume but could be wrong), the seat to be a high %™Brexit voting seat who still care about the issue when Brexit isn't a talking point anymore and regret for Brexit is increasing, then either try and unseat the leader and rely on those new faragist members to elect him leader. Also he'd have to keep his appeal as an anti- establishment firebrand whilst leader of the Tories. Which yes is possible as Johnson has done it but it's not easy. It's just not a viable path to power.
And also, he'd have to want to. He's not really that much of a political mover and shaker to go through all that. He's the firebrand outside the tent, it's not his style. He wants to be as disruptive as possible as a means unto itself.
He doesn't want to lead, that'd mean he has responsibility and has to deliver.
More likely he'll join, look for a peerage and loudly proclaim what he'd do if he was in charge but alas it's not allowed because of the peerage, etc, etc.
David in Gwent wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 11:54 am
The current nightmare situation in the Middle East can't be good for Labour. I would suggest some of their mob are on a tight leash.
Given that Starmer has complete control of the Party and the prevailing mood following the hostage taking I doubt any dissent will be tolerated.
His wife is Jewish and his children are being raised in the Jewish faith.
Oh, there's already been a few incidents but it's being managed well and so far only Twitter is showing them.
I don't use Twitter and as you say it will be managed.
Given that Starmer has complete control of the Party and the prevailing mood following the hostage taking I doubt any dissent will be tolerated.
His wife is Jewish and his children are being raised in the Jewish faith.
Oh, there's already been a few incidents but it's being managed well and so far only Twitter is showing them.
I don't use Twitter and as you say it will be managed.
Still, given some of Labours, shall we say "Fringe" membership there is definitely the potential for it to blow up in Labour's face.
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 8:53 am
On that point, the Tory party is very vulnerable to entryism particularly after a likely electoral thrashing. There are what, 80,000 members? Doesn’t take a lot to double that
I still doubt he has a path. Farage would have to join the conservative party, convince his fans to do so (I don't think he has enough who would pay to wait for him to take over the Tories), wait for a bye election, be selected by the local association (not very open to entryism I presume but could be wrong), the seat to be a high %™Brexit voting seat who still care about the issue when Brexit isn't a talking point anymore and regret for Brexit is increasing, then either try and unseat the leader and rely on those new faragist members to elect him leader. Also he'd have to keep his appeal as an anti- establishment firebrand whilst leader of the Tories. Which yes is possible as Johnson has done it but it's not easy. It's just not a viable path to power.
And also, he'd have to want to. He's not really that much of a political mover and shaker to go through all that. He's the firebrand outside the tent, it's not his style. He wants to be as disruptive as possible as a means unto itself.
He doesn't want to lead, that'd mean he has responsibility and has to deliver.
More likely he'll join, look for a peerage and loudly proclaim what he'd do if he was in charge but alas it's not allowed because of the peerage, etc, etc.
No difference to now then really. A peerage won't change his influence as he's already a mainstream political figure with the legitimacy of being one of the leaders of the Brexit campaign.
Farage being a Tory member doesn't serve his goals and it doesn't serve the goals of the Tories. He'll never be a paid up full backing supporter of all of their policies. It's not his schtick.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2023 3:41 pm
by Hal Jordan
It would also tie him down to a single political party that wasn't all about him, and I'm not sure his ego could take that.
Given that Starmer has complete control of the Party and the prevailing mood following the hostage taking I doubt any dissent will be tolerated.
His wife is Jewish and his children are being raised in the Jewish faith.
Oh, there's already been a few incidents but it's being managed well and so far only Twitter is showing them.
I don't use Twitter and as you say it will be managed.
David Lammy addressing a Labour Friends of Palestine event tonight......
Oh, there's already been a few incidents but it's being managed well and so far only Twitter is showing them.
I don't use Twitter and as you say it will be managed.
David Lammy addressing a Labour Friends of Palestine event tonight......
Well that's going to be somewhat interesting
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Wed Oct 11, 2023 7:41 am
by Line6 HXFX
So when did all the Jews on the planet, or even in the US start supporting those crazy illegal, israeli settlers?
Most want nothing to do with them.
It is like catholics being told they have to support hitler and the third riech (because he is catholic).
In 2021, a Jewish Electorate Institute poll found that 58% of American Jewish voters support restrictions on US military aid to prevent Israel using it to expand West Bank settlements.
Now it's wrong to be pro Palestinian? Wrong to wave a Palestinian flag, wrong to care about Palestinians?
Wow, nettenyahoo, not bothering to defend his border, ignoring warnings. expanding settlements and provoking a shit fest is really working for them huh?
Who needs to be chosen by God, when you can be chosen by the thick as mince media.