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C69 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 2:21 pm

Calculon wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 1:37 pm

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2023 1:55 pm

Speaking of hospitals, the IDF never did find that evidence to support attacking Al Shifa, did they.

Maybe it was just another regrettable mistake.

https://apnews.com/article/hamas-intell ... ed92c4f821

So Israeli's biggest backer is confident that HAMAS used the hospital. Fair enough show the evidence
USA and Israeli intelligence has been way off on the matters for years. Look at the confidence in WMD or the confidence the IDF had when they shot the white Flag waving Israeli hostages.
How the fuck did Israel intelligence allow HAMAS such an infrastructure to be constructed in the first place.
Or how did the Israeli intelligence allow HAMAS to strike with such butchery on Oct 7 when they were warned time and time again about terrorist incursions and build up of HAMAS forces.
I'd take so called intelligence reports from these sources with as much of a pinch of salt as I take HAMAS reports seriously.
Let's see evidence not fabrication, smoke and mirrors and just plain lies and bullshit propaganda.

Calculon wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 2:51 pm

C69 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 2:21 pm

Calculon wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 1:37 pm

https://apnews.com/article/hamas-intell ... ed92c4f821

So Israeli's biggest backer is confident that HAMAS used the hospital. Fair enough show the evidence
USA and Israeli intelligence has been way off on the matters for years. Look at the confidence in WMD or the confidence the IDF had when they shot the white Flag waving Israeli hostages.
How the fuck did Israel intelligence allow HAMAS such an infrastructure to be constructed in the first place.
Or how did the Israeli intelligence allow HAMAS to strike with such butchery on Oct 7 when they were warned time and time again about terrorist incursions and build up of HAMAS forces.
I'd take so called intelligence reports from these sources with as much of a pinch of salt as I take HAMAS reports seriously.
Let's see evidence not fabrication, smoke and mirrors and just plain lies and bullshit propaganda.

Raggs has already addressed GS question, so not sure why he brought it up again

viewtopic.php?p=328397&hilit=Shifa#p328397

Hugo wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 4:50 pm https://www.yahoo.com/news/israel-secre ... 17093.html

Israel talking to Congo about resettling Gazans there.

C69 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 8:18 pm

Hugo wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 4:50 pm https://www.yahoo.com/news/israel-secre ... 17093.html

Israel talking to Congo about resettling Gazans there.

not Ethnic Cleansing or Domicide

Calculon wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 2:22 am Why do all these Corbyn supporters have such a hard on for Palestine (and Putin)

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 8:45 pm Israel have a duty to its people to completely destroy Hamas. There are also 100 hostages still being kept. Until Hamas is dismantled and those hostages still alive are returned,, it quite rightly has to push on.

This can’t be allowed to happen again.

Sadly, many Palestinians cheered on Hamas for their barbaric rampage.

mat the expat wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 12:53 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 8:45 pm Israel have a duty to its people to completely destroy Hamas. There are also 100 hostages still being kept. Until Hamas is dismantled and those hostages still alive are returned,, it quite rightly has to push on.

This can’t be allowed to happen again.

Sadly, many Palestinians cheered on Hamas for their barbaric rampage.

All that will happen is 1000s of new militants will be created by this action.

Calculon wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 1:37 pm

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2023 1:55 pm

Calculon wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2023 1:50 pm

when i said the fake hospital was an obvious fake you referenced alex jones and called me a wingnut, but thanks for that

Speaking of hospitals, the IDF never did find that evidence to support attacking Al Shifa, did they.

Maybe it was just another regrettable mistake.

https://apnews.com/article/hamas-intell ... ed92c4f821

Yet the information released doesn’t fully back some of Israel’s most significant allegations that the hospital served as the central node for activities by Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

mat the expat wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 12:53 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 8:45 pm Israel have a duty to its people to completely destroy Hamas. There are also 100 hostages still being kept. Until Hamas is dismantled and those hostages still alive are returned,, it quite rightly has to push on.

This can’t be allowed to happen again.

Sadly, many Palestinians cheered on Hamas for their barbaric rampage.

All that will happen is 1000s of new militants will be created by this action.

Hugo wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 1:56 am

C69 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 8:18 pm

Hugo wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 4:50 pm https://www.yahoo.com/news/israel-secre ... 17093.html

Israel talking to Congo about resettling Gazans there.

not Ethnic Cleansing or Domicide

Yup. Its just so blatant at this point, its way part the point of being proportionate or defensible.

Ymx wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 7:32 am

mat the expat wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 12:53 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2024 8:45 pm Israel have a duty to its people to completely destroy Hamas. There are also 100 hostages still being kept. Until Hamas is dismantled and those hostages still alive are returned,, it quite rightly has to push on.

This can’t be allowed to happen again.

Sadly, many Palestinians cheered on Hamas for their barbaric rampage.

All that will happen is 1000s of new militants will be created by this action.

It’s a bit late for that, the indoctrination happens anyway. The whole indoctrination process needs to be unpicked too.

mat the expat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 3:09 amLiterally, the point...

mat the expat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 3:09 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 7:32 am

mat the expat wrote: ↑Fri Jan 05, 2024 12:53 am

All that will happen is 1000s of new militants will be created by this action.

It’s a bit late for that, the indoctrination happens anyway. The whole indoctrination process needs to be unpicked too.

Literally, the point...

Calculon wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 10:56 am It's no surprise that hatred and mistrust has increased on both sides

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67893122

Likely to see Hamas or it's successor attempt another large scale horrific attack on Israel in the future, cheered on by many Palestinians. No doubt followed by another violent Israeli reaction and the same Palestinians, and their supporters, calling for a ceasefire. Rinse and repeat

Ymx wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:19 am “It’s only Israel …” are you on crack ?

Palestinians send missiles over to Israel and have been doing so for years. They are run by murderous terrorists. They slaughter Israeli civilians when they can. And do it by hand, not as a byproduct of war.

I’m not sure how you are getting this Palestinians are holier than though.

They were literally cheering in the streets over the Oct 7 attacks on civilians.

They also hung their own in a barbaric public execution where they suspected them colluding with IDF, within the last month.

There is also a reason Israelis were banned from being in Gaza. Because when they did, they get murdered.

Israel's police investigators are having difficulties finding living victims of or witnesses to sexual assault committed by Hamas on October 7, due to the fact that many of the victims were killed that day, taken hostage or are in a state of psychological distress and unable to testify. They are therefore appealing to the public to encourage anyone with information to contact them and give a statement.

The sheer scale and brutality of the massacre pose challenges to the investigation of the sexual violence, including the specific nature of the acts and the identity of the perpetrators.

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In the few cases where police have already amassed testimony about the sexual assaults Hamas committed during its massacre in southern Israel, they haven't yet been able to identify the specific victims of the acts to which witnesses have testified.

Hamas' campaign of rape against Israeli women is revealed, testimony after testimony
Israeli women fight to break global silence on Hamas' sexual violence
The ethics of covering Hamas' dehumanizing sexual violence against Israeli women
"We have circumstantial indications that there are victims who are still alive who haven't contacted us yet," said Superintendent Adi Edri, normally an investigator in the unit that handles online sex crimes against minors, who is currently in charge of investigating sexual assault committed during the massacre. "That's why we have turned to the media. We didn't do this lightly."


"If anyone reading this article was sexually assaulted, I'm here for her every step of the way," she added. "Clearly, it takes strength to speak out. I'm happy to listen to her testimony and also provide assistance if needed."

The most direct and detailed testimony received to date about sexual assault during the attack comes from a young woman identified by her first initial, S. Parts of her testimony have been published in the media, and an edited video of her words was screened at the United Nations. An investigative report published by the New York Times last month also included detailed testimony from S.

Superintendent Edri said that S. witnessed the rape and murder of at least two women at the Nova music festival, and also saw people maimed and bodies mutilated.


Superintendent Adi Edri, who is in charge of investigating the sex crimes in the massacre.
The police have investigated her testimony thoroughly and concluded that it is very credible. But investigators haven't yet been able to identify the women who, according to S. and other eyewitnesses, were raped and murdered.

"I have circumstantial evidence, but in the end, it's my duty to find supporting evidence for her story and discover the victims' identities," Edri said. "At this stage, I have no specific bodies."

So far, she added, due to the small number of survivors and their traumatized state, police have taken statements from very few eyewitnesses to sex crimes, though numerous statements have been provided by soldiers and rescue personnel from Zaka (the ultra-Orthodox organization whose members retrieve bodies after terror attacks) and other organizations who were at the scene of the massacre. Police also have documentation of bodies, both male and female, that were found naked and whose sexual organs had been mutilated.

But even though there is ample documentation from the scene of the massacre regarding bodies that appear to have been victims of sexual assault, investigators are still looking for other supporting evidence, Edri said.

"We're looking for more than one witness," she explained, adding that for every locale in southern Israel where Hamas committed its crimes, "we're looking for supporting evidence of what happened there." That supporting evidence would be necessary to potentially bring the perpetrators to justice.

Kibbutz Nir Oz, in October. "It's my duty to to find supporting evidence and discover the victims' identities," Superintendent Edri said.Credit: Olivier Fitoussi
Investigators have visited the Shura military base, where the victims' bodies were taken for identification; examined the photographs taken during the process; and done a lot of cross-referencing to figure out whether crimes were committed, she continued. Asked whether all the bodies taken to Shura were photographed, she replied, "They photographed many of them; I can't promise they photographed them all."

Chaim Otmazgin, the commander of special units in Zaka who helped in the process of identifying the bodies, said he recently gave an additional statement to the police about indications of sexual assault on the bodies he saw. He also showed Haaretz some extremely disturbing pictures, including three photographs of dead women who appear to have bled from their sexual organs, seemingly after being shot there.

Breaking news and the best of Haaretz straight to your inbox

He added that he had felt torn over how to document the bodies at the scene of the massacre. On one hand, he felt he had a duty to photograph them, but on the other, he wanted to preserve the dignity of the dead.

In November, Haaretz reported that the extended period of combat with Hamas terrorists turned crime scenes into battlefields and evidence was thus lost or contaminated. After the fighting ended, the authorities' main priority was not collecting evidence of sexual assault but finding and identifying bodies, sometimes under rocket fire, in order that families could be informed and funerals held.


A helicopter lands at a hospital in Israel in November, carrying hostages released by Hamas. Some of them referred to sexual assult in media interviews, but are yet to testify to police.Credit: Itai Ron
The number of bodies brought to the Shura base was a number so overwhelming that it was no longer possible to perform rape kit testing, which in any case require samples to be taken within 48 hours of the crime.

That led to missing forensic evidence which is making it hard for investigators to determine the precise details of the atrocities committed on October 7 and identify the victims. Similar difficulties are now arising in investigations of sexual assault committed that day. Police are now also waiting for hostages released from Hamas captivity to feel ready to talk to them about sexual violence they experience or witnessed.

Released hostages have yet to give statements to the police, even though some have told the media about sexual assaults that occurred both during the massacre and while Hamas was holding them in the Gaza Strip.

In an interview with Haaretz, for instance, Chen Goldstein-Almog said that some of the hostages she met in Gaza had told her they had been sexually assaulted. Mia Schem told Channel 12 television that one terrorist "starting touching her" during the attack on the Nova festival before kidnapping her.

"If there are indications that sex crimes were committed against the hostages who have returned, we'll collect their statements," Edri said. But to do so, she noted, police need approval from the people assigned by the army to help them readjust after their deeply traumatic experience, and a green light from the psychologists who are treating them.

"The moment they're willing to give statements, we're here," she said.

Ymx wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:19 am And do it by hand, not as a byproduct of war.

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 12:35 pm

Ymx wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:19 am And do it by hand, not as a byproduct of war.

Been meaning to talk about this one.
Israel seems to think it has higher moral ground because it's attacks are carried out remotely.
Discuss.

Ymx wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 2:11 pm

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 12:35 pm

Ymx wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:19 am And do it by hand, not as a byproduct of war.

Been meaning to talk about this one.
Israel seems to think it has higher moral ground because it's attacks are carried out remotely.
Discuss.

It has not seeked out to target civilians, torture and carve them up with knives. I’d say there’s a big difference between this and bombs causing collateral damage, especially in the context of war crimes.

Do you seriously think Hamas are not worse than the IDF, despite this?

Ymx wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 2:11 pm

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 12:35 pm

Ymx wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 9:19 am And do it by hand, not as a byproduct of war.

Been meaning to talk about this one.
Israel seems to think it has higher moral ground because it's attacks are carried out remotely.
Discuss.

It has not seeked out to target civilians, torture and carve them up with knives. I’d say there’s a big difference between this and bombs causing collateral damage, especially in the context of war crimes.

Do you seriously think Hamas are not worse than the IDF, despite this?

An explosive device has been planted on a car outside a Sydney home that was flying the Palestinian flag, triggering police to send a bomb disposal robot.

NSW Police were called to a street in Botany following reports of a “suspicious item” on a car bonnet at 2pm on Friday.

Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich: "What needs to be done in the Gaza Strip is to encourage emigration. If there are 100,000 or 200,000 Arabs in Gaza and not 2 million Arabs, the entire discussion on the day after will be totally different."

Smotrich also argued that the disappearance of most of Gaza’s population would permit Israelis to regenerate the war-torn enclave themselves: “Most of Israeli society will say, ‘Why not, it’s a nice place, let’s make the desert bloom, it doesn’t come at anyone’s expense.’"

...Israeli National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir has also described the war as an “opportunity to concentrate on encouraging the migration of the residents of Gaza” and a pretext for annexing territory. “We cannot withdraw from any territory we are in in the Gaza Strip. Not only do I not rule out Jewish settlement there, I believe it is also an important thing,” he said.

...Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is advocating for “voluntary migration,” refusing to specify who will control Gaza after the war, and is conspicuously declining to condemn Ben-Gvir’s and Smotrich’s unapologetically colonial language of setting up new settlements in Gaza.

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opi ... rcna132378

Ymx wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2024 7:50 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 12:23 am The BBC is regularly found to be one of the most unbiased news sources in the world, along with AP, Reuters etc.

If they report things you don't agree with, it doesn't make them biased, the bias is in the reader. They get a lot of dung thrown at them from the left as well as from the right



edit, although it's true that domestically the BBC news section has had a lot of appointees who are friends or sympathetic to the Tories, and that might well reflect their editorial policy, having said that, Nick Robinson, the guy who was at Oxford with Cameron and Johnson etc, and was in the Tory students association there, in fact I think he led it, he's been getting a bit better at holding this bunch of shits, sorry, current government ministers to account

Calculon wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 1:04 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 12:23 am The BBC is regularly found to be one of the most unbiased news sources in the world, along with AP, Reuters etc.

If they report things you don't agree with, it doesn't make them biased, the bias is in the reader. They get a lot of dung thrown at them from the left as well as from the right



edit, although it's true that domestically the BBC news section has had a lot of appointees who are friends or sympathetic to the Tories, and that might well reflect their editorial policy, having said that, Nick Robinson, the guy who was at Oxford with Cameron and Johnson etc, and was in the Tory students association there, in fact I think he led it, he's been getting a bit better at holding this bunch of shits, sorry, current government ministers to account

It’s nothing to do with agreeing with them, everything with them getting it factually wrong, and always on the side of Hamas. Reporting that Israel bombed a hospital with over 500 casualties when it was a Hamas rocket that burned out the hospital’s carpark, falsely reporting that Israel was targeting Arab medics in Al Shifa hospital. Conveniently not reporting when a rocket hit a school in Gaza because it was known to be a Hamas rocket.

As I’ve stated before their coverage of the Covid pandemic in SA was a joke, but I don’t care how they cover the sacks of shits that make up the Tory government, or for that matter their sycophantic coverage of the Royal Family when the queen died. They're still useful as a news ticker though

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 1:09 am

Calculon wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 1:04 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 12:23 am The BBC is regularly found to be one of the most unbiased news sources in the world, along with AP, Reuters etc.

If they report things you don't agree with, it doesn't make them biased, the bias is in the reader. They get a lot of dung thrown at them from the left as well as from the right



edit, although it's true that domestically the BBC news section has had a lot of appointees who are friends or sympathetic to the Tories, and that might well reflect their editorial policy, having said that, Nick Robinson, the guy who was at Oxford with Cameron and Johnson etc, and was in the Tory students association there, in fact I think he led it, he's been getting a bit better at holding this bunch of shits, sorry, current government ministers to account

It’s nothing to do with agreeing with them, everything with them getting it factually wrong, and always on the side of Hamas. Reporting that Israel bombed a hospital with over 500 casualties when it was a Hamas rocket that burned out the hospital’s carpark, falsely reporting that Israel was targeting Arab medics in Al Shifa hospital. Conveniently not reporting when a rocket hit a school in Gaza because it was known to be a Hamas rocket.

As I’ve stated before their coverage of the Covid pandemic in SA was a joke, but I don’t care how they cover the sacks of shits that make up the Tory government, or for that matter their sycophantic coverage of the Royal Family when the queen died. They're still useful as a news ticker though

You've set out your stall, you are akin to a religious fanatic. Zero chance of seeing the other side of the discussion.

I didn't post that to convince you because I know there is no chance of that, I posted it to show that among sensible people the BBC is held to be an unbiased news source.

Calculon wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2024 1:57 am . Any other insults I’ve missed from the posters on “your side”?