NPR

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:44 am

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:41 am It doesn't seem like that long ago I felt I was the only one against this.

I'm not against it as such, but it's an 'all things in moderation' type of view I have. We could conceivably put out:

Kebble/Shoeman - xx - Nel/Berghan
Skinner - Toolis
Cowan - Thomson/Du Preez - Haining
xx
VDW
Grigg/Harris - Johnson/Lang
Maitland - Duhan
xx

That's off the top of my head of various qualification routes that don't involve our own system. The only three positions I couldn't think of a player are hooker, scrumhalf and fullback, and there are multiple I thought of more than one and some generous non-picks (Ali Price and SHC both from outside Scotland). I think all the players involved merit selection, but it is an awful lot.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:23 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:44 am

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:41 am It doesn't seem like that long ago I felt I was the only one against this.

I'm not against it as such, but it's an 'all things in moderation' type of view I have. We could conceivably put out:

Kebble/Shoeman - xx - Nel/Berghan
Skinner - Toolis
Cowan - Thomson/Du Preez - Haining
xx
VDW
Grigg/Harris - Johnson/Lang
Maitland - Duhan
xx

That's off the top of my head of various qualification routes that don't involve our own system. The only three positions I couldn't think of a player are hooker, scrumhalf and fullback, and there are multiple I thought of more than one and some generous non-picks (Ali Price and SHC both from outside Scotland). I think all the players involved merit selection, but it is an awful lot.

Don't get me wrong I'm not completely against players not born here playing for Scotland (your Barclays, SHC's etc) and if I were the head coach theres no way I'd be overlooking the likes of VDM. Its also very subjective and not easy to disprove how "Scottish" someone is. Maitland for example has a grandparent who is Scottish but iirc was aiming for an AB cap. You've then players that have moved here as project players. Is VDM now nationalised and "Scottish"? Fuck knows but the team you've put up would be an embarrassment if fielded and its not really far off happening at times.

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:14 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:44 am

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:41 am It doesn't seem like that long ago I felt I was the only one against this.

I'm not against it as such, but it's an 'all things in moderation' type of view I have. We could conceivably put out:

Kebble/Shoeman - xx - Nel/Berghan
Skinner - Toolis
Cowan - Thomson/Du Preez - Haining
xx
VDW
Grigg/Harris - Johnson/Lang
Maitland - Duhan
xx

That's off the top of my head of various qualification routes that don't involve our own system. The only three positions I couldn't think of a player are hooker, scrumhalf and fullback, and there are multiple I thought of more than one and some generous non-picks (Ali Price and SHC both from outside Scotland). I think all the players involved merit selection, but it is an awful lot.

Are 11 of that list not parent/ grandparent rule though?

Where do we want to stop with this?

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:44 am

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:41 am It doesn't seem like that long ago I felt I was the only one against this.

I'm not against it as such, but it's an 'all things in moderation' type of view I have. We could conceivably put out:

Kebble/Shoeman - xx - Nel/Berghan
Skinner - Toolis
Cowan - Thomson/Du Preez - Haining
xx
VDW
Grigg/Harris - Johnson/Lang
Maitland - Duhan
xx

That's off the top of my head of various qualification routes that don't involve our own system. The only three positions I couldn't think of a player are hooker, scrumhalf and fullback, and there are multiple I thought of more than one and some generous non-picks (Ali Price and SHC both from outside Scotland). I think all the players involved merit selection, but it is an awful lot.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:28 pm Individually when you start to look at players specific storylines the lines do become blurred. Which is life people move around for jobs, for family for whatever.

Nel's children identify themselves as Scottish, he's living here after he's retired he confirmed. Same with Visser who does. Sam Johnson says that's the plan. Who are we to say they're not Scottish?

If someone came from South Africa in any other line of work to work for a Scottish company or one based here and loved it and decided they considered themselves Scottish would anyone say - "hang on mate no you aren't"? Probably not.

I myself was born in England to a half English half New Zealander mother and 3/4 Scottish 1/4 Irish father. Lived in Scotland from 5-18 then moved to England for university and didn't leave. I consider myself Scottish but that's my choice really. If I said I was English nobody would say anything differently. And if I'd have been called up the All Blacks I'd have probably played for them.

Is it a bit uncomfortable with the jokboks? Maybe. I understand why. But it's also just life.

dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:35 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:28 pm Individually when you start to look at players specific storylines the lines do become blurred. Which is life people move around for jobs, for family for whatever.

Nel's children identify themselves as Scottish, he's living here after he's retired he confirmed. Same with Visser who does. Sam Johnson says that's the plan. Who are we to say they're not Scottish?

If someone came from South Africa in any other line of work to work for a Scottish company or one based here and loved it and decided they considered themselves Scottish would anyone say - "hang on mate no you aren't"? Probably not.

I myself was born in England to a half English half New Zealander mother and 3/4 Scottish 1/4 Irish father. Lived in Scotland from 5-18 then moved to England for university and didn't leave. I consider myself Scottish but that's my choice really. If I said I was English nobody would say anything differently. And if I'd have been called up the All Blacks I'd have probably played for them.

Is it a bit uncomfortable with the jokboks? Maybe. I understand why. But it's also just life.

Cant disagree, the world is a small place now and trying to define nationality is getting harder than it was way back when. My son is Scottish born and bred but lives in London. If and when he has kids, if they are born in London, they will qualify for England and Scotland. Would I be happy if they played for England at rugby? No! Would I respect their decision? Of course I would.

Perhaps Brexit and the changes to migration rules and the limits to free movement of sportsmen and sportswomen is going to change a lot of this?

I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:40 pm

dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:35 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 2:28 pm Individually when you start to look at players specific storylines the lines do become blurred. Which is life people move around for jobs, for family for whatever.

Nel's children identify themselves as Scottish, he's living here after he's retired he confirmed. Same with Visser who does. Sam Johnson says that's the plan. Who are we to say they're not Scottish?

If someone came from South Africa in any other line of work to work for a Scottish company or one based here and loved it and decided they considered themselves Scottish would anyone say - "hang on mate no you aren't"? Probably not.

I myself was born in England to a half English half New Zealander mother and 3/4 Scottish 1/4 Irish father. Lived in Scotland from 5-18 then moved to England for university and didn't leave. I consider myself Scottish but that's my choice really. If I said I was English nobody would say anything differently. And if I'd have been called up the All Blacks I'd have probably played for them.

Is it a bit uncomfortable with the jokboks? Maybe. I understand why. But it's also just life.

Cant disagree, the world is a small place now and trying to define nationality is getting harder than it was way back when. My son is Scottish born and bred but lives in London. If and when he has kids, if they are born in London, they will qualify for England and Scotland. Would I be happy if they played for England at rugby? No! Would I respect their decision? Of course I would.

Perhaps Brexit and the changes to migration rules and the limits to free movement of sportsmen and sportswomen is going to change a lot of this?

You have to get the hypothetical grandkids to BTM asap!

I think it'll make it harder to get visas for some but sports is such a huge industry the govt will surely create creative solutions.

I agree it's a tricky subject. It was pretty flagrant the SRU signing Nel and Strauss with the intention of playing for Scotland when in their prime. But in my opinion Nel is Scottish nowadays. I'm in no place to tell anyone who is and isn't Scottish since I decided to be Scottish myself!

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:39 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:14 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:44 am

I'm not against it as such, but it's an 'all things in moderation' type of view I have. We could conceivably put out:

Kebble/Shoeman - xx - Nel/Berghan
Skinner - Toolis
Cowan - Thomson/Du Preez - Haining
xx
VDW
Grigg/Harris - Johnson/Lang
Maitland - Duhan
xx

That's off the top of my head of various qualification routes that don't involve our own system. The only three positions I couldn't think of a player are hooker, scrumhalf and fullback, and there are multiple I thought of more than one and some generous non-picks (Ali Price and SHC both from outside Scotland). I think all the players involved merit selection, but it is an awful lot.

Are 11 of that list not parent/ grandparent rule though?

Where do we want to stop with this?

I don't mind the parent rule at all - surely if your mum or dad is from a country you're highly likely to have an affinity for that country that goes beyond 'mercenary' - in many countries, having a parent from that country would actually automatically qualify you for a passport. I am uncomfortable with players with no other links to Scotland (haven't been here, haven't played here) being parachuted into the squad on the grandparent rule, who will most likely just have had that one funny gran who couldn't shut up about how much better Stornoway black is than the shite they serve in Rankpuddingstan.

I generally don't like the residency rule, but it's not completely black and white. I have no issue with Sam Johnson playing for Scotland - he never came over as a 'project player' and went native at Usain Bolt speed. Nel is that way as well probably. In contrast, Josh Strauss, lacerated kidney and all, was probably a mistake in hindsight. Tim Visser - the weirdest ancestry of all Scots but as he has now returned to live in Edinburgh after retiring as a rugby player, I can't see any fault with him previously playing for Scotland (apart from being a grade A wanker). Who knows how McMerwe and McWalt will end up? So while generally disliking it, the rules are as they are, bigger and better-resourced countries are doing it, and I'll reserve judgement on how much of a mercenary these players turned out to be until they've finished playing for Scotland or even well after that.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:43 pm This isn’t the politics thread, which I deliberately stay away from nowadays, but I would simply observe that the existence of an actual Scottish nationality would make this a lot easier. If you have a Scottish passport then you’re Scottish - end of story and no further arguments.

The problem with parent and grandparent rules is that not everyone’s experience is the same. AFAIK both Sean Maitland and Hamish Watson qualify via grandparents, but Watson grew up being taken to Murrayfield and feeling Scottish, whereas Maitland almost certainly dreamt of being an All Black. But you have to draw the line somewhere, and wherever you put it, countries will use it to their best advantage.

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 7:59 am

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:03 pm

robmatic wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:55 am

To be fair, he's saying that Scotland have to have a good 6 Nations because of Warren Gatland's biases, not because it's the way he thinks the Lions squad should be chosen.

On the 6N front, we are probably looking at 3 wins as keeping head above water (home games against Wales and Italy are absolute must-wins and we should be looking to beat Ireland at home), difficult to see wins in the away games.

I've been very disappointed by the last two games and believe they've erased any credit in the bank from last 6N. I'm also still convinced that GT is not the person to lead Scotland, can anyone honestly see where the necessary improvement is going to come from to properly challenge for 6N titles?

I get a bit frustrated by the Toony out talk. There have been a couple of disappointing performances in the last few weeks but by most measures the last few years have been a pretty successful period in our rugby history. I think some people have pretty unrealistic expectations of where we should be.

I also think that generally the rugby has been exciting to watch and has given Scottish rugby a fair bit of respect.

I also struggle to criticise a coach that tries a style that was pretty successful for a while, accepted it wasn’t working later, and then completely changed the style. He is still working towards where he wants it to be. I think that has been very impressive, frankly.

I just don’t see how any coach is going to come in and make our results better with the resources we have.

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:19 pm Apart from the fact it’s the best results we have had under any coach in the history of rugby that is a great post

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:21 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:19 pm Apart from the fact it’s the best results we have had under any coach in the history of rugby that is a great post

Contextualized by the best crop otf players (by far)

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:42 pm

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:21 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:19 pm Apart from the fact it’s the best results we have had under any coach in the history of rugby that is a great post

Contextualized by the best crop otf players (by far)

It’s nonsense mate, he has the best win %, the most points in the 6N, the highest ever world ranking.

So even if it was the best crop of players he has done well

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:23 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:43 pm This isn’t the politics thread, which I deliberately stay away from nowadays, but I would simply observe that the existence of an actual Scottish nationality would make this a lot easier. If you have a Scottish passport then you’re Scottish - end of story and no further arguments.

The problem with parent and grandparent rules is that not everyone’s experience is the same. AFAIK both Sean Maitland and Hamish Watson qualify via grandparents, but Watson grew up being taken to Murrayfield and feeling Scottish, whereas Maitland almost certainly dreamt of being an All Black. But you have to draw the line somewhere, and wherever you put it, countries will use it to their best advantage.

Actually, that doesn’t work either. In fact it’s worse. The number of years residency thing was brought in after oil rich Middle Eastern countries started throwing citizenships at Brazilian footballers and Kenyan runners after a few months living there, so they’d compete for Qatar, uae, etc.

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:49 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:42 pm

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:21 pm

Contextualized by the best crop otf players (by far)

It’s nonsense mate, he has the best win %, the most points in the 6N, the highest ever world ranking.

So even if it was the best crop of players he has done well

Again, if we look at it on a rolling basis, the team's performance has clearly come off since 2017/18, I personally still think he's dining out on the 2017 AIs and Calcutta cup game.

Also, we shouldn't be comparing to previous coaches, the question is, can someone else do a better job with the current crop? I believe they can.

We win all three home games and one of the away fixtures then that's definitely progress and I'd retract what I've said but, in reality, I think we'll lose one of those home games (most likely Ireland) and be beaten comfortably in Paris and London. I hope I'm wrong!

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:03 am

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:49 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:42 pm

It’s nonsense mate, he has the best win %, the most points in the 6N, the highest ever world ranking.

So even if it was the best crop of players he has done well

Again, if we look at it on a rolling basis, the team's performance has clearly come off since 2017/18, I personally still think he's dining out on the 2017 AIs and Calcutta cup game.

Also, we shouldn't be comparing to previous coaches, the question is, can someone else do a better job with the current crop? I believe they can.

We win all three home games and one of the away fixtures then that's definitely progress and I'd retract what I've said but, in reality, I think we'll lose one of those home games (most likely Ireland) and be beaten comfortably in Paris and London. I hope I'm wrong!

First he got us scoring tries and playing exciting rugby. Then he got us tightened up defensively and not shipping soft tries. If he can find a way for us to do both, that might really be something. But whether he can or not is another question.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:01 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 6:23 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:43 pm This isn’t the politics thread, which I deliberately stay away from nowadays, but I would simply observe that the existence of an actual Scottish nationality would make this a lot easier. If you have a Scottish passport then you’re Scottish - end of story and no further arguments.

The problem with parent and grandparent rules is that not everyone’s experience is the same. AFAIK both Sean Maitland and Hamish Watson qualify via grandparents, but Watson grew up being taken to Murrayfield and feeling Scottish, whereas Maitland almost certainly dreamt of being an All Black. But you have to draw the line somewhere, and wherever you put it, countries will use it to their best advantage.

Actually, that doesn’t work either. In fact it’s worse. The number of years residency thing was brought in after oil rich Middle Eastern countries started throwing citizenships at Brazilian footballers and Kenyan runners after a few months living there, so they’d compete for Qatar, uae, etc.

Thought the FIFA rule was still 'you need a passport', and that it was only the UK that had weird rules due to the lack of differential nationality?

Maybe I'm out of date though?

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:08 am

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:03 am

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:49 pm

Again, if we look at it on a rolling basis, the team's performance has clearly come off since 2017/18, I personally still think he's dining out on the 2017 AIs and Calcutta cup game.

Also, we shouldn't be comparing to previous coaches, the question is, can someone else do a better job with the current crop? I believe they can.

We win all three home games and one of the away fixtures then that's definitely progress and I'd retract what I've said but, in reality, I think we'll lose one of those home games (most likely Ireland) and be beaten comfortably in Paris and London. I hope I'm wrong!

First he got us scoring tries and playing exciting rugby. Then he got us tightened up defensively and not shipping soft tries. If he can find a way for us to do both, that might really be something. But whether he can or not is another question.

It's definitely worth listening to Eddie O'Sullivan on the Rugby Pod, he goes into detail about why it's easy to beat Scotland as they play the exact same game: he watched the games against Wales, France, Italy and we played the same defence against Ireland (which apparently is easy to breach with some set moves). As a result, Ireland knew exactly what game plan to execute against us. Tactically, it reflects badly on Townsend.

I'm not doing it justice here as it's quite a technical analysis but I'd recommend listening to it

Begbie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:19 am

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:08 am

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:03 am

First he got us scoring tries and playing exciting rugby. Then he got us tightened up defensively and not shipping soft tries. If he can find a way for us to do both, that might really be something. But whether he can or not is another question.

It's definitely worth listening to Eddie O'Sullivan on the Rugby Pod, he goes into detail about why it's easy to beat Scotland as they play the exact same game: he watched the games against Wales, France, Italy and we played the same defence against Ireland (which apparently is easy to breach with some set moves). As a result, Ireland knew exactly what game plan to execute against us. Tactically, it reflects badly on Townsend.

I'm not doing it justice here as it's quite a technical analysis but I'd recommend listening to it

Just gave it a listen, it's interesting. It's concerning that he says our defence is really easy to work out and "retro" (probably a polite way of saying outdated) I guess we'll see soon enough if Tandy can change it up and make it less predictable.

Is what he says about our schools game accurate?

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:23 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:44 am

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:41 am It doesn't seem like that long ago I felt I was the only one against this.

I'm not against it as such, but it's an 'all things in moderation' type of view I have. We could conceivably put out:

Kebble/Shoeman - xx - Nel/Berghan
Skinner - Toolis
Cowan - Thomson/Du Preez - Haining
xx
VDW
Grigg/Harris - Johnson/Lang
Maitland - Duhan
xx

That's off the top of my head of various qualification routes that don't involve our own system. The only three positions I couldn't think of a player are hooker, scrumhalf and fullback, and there are multiple I thought of more than one and some generous non-picks (Ali Price and SHC both from outside Scotland). I think all the players involved merit selection, but it is an awful lot.

Don't get me wrong I'm not completely against players not born here playing for Scotland (your Barclays, SHC's etc) and if I were the head coach theres no way I'd be overlooking the likes of VDM. Its also very subjective and not easy to disprove how "Scottish" someone is. Maitland for example has a grandparent who is Scottish but iirc was aiming for an AB cap. You've then players that have moved here as project players. Is VDM now nationalised and "Scottish"? Fuck knows but the team you've put up would be an embarrassment if fielded and its not really far off happening at times.

Begbie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 11, 2020 8:19 am

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:08 am

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:03 am

First he got us scoring tries and playing exciting rugby. Then he got us tightened up defensively and not shipping soft tries. If he can find a way for us to do both, that might really be something. But whether he can or not is another question.

It's definitely worth listening to Eddie O'Sullivan on the Rugby Pod, he goes into detail about why it's easy to beat Scotland as they play the exact same game: he watched the games against Wales, France, Italy and we played the same defence against Ireland (which apparently is easy to breach with some set moves). As a result, Ireland knew exactly what game plan to execute against us. Tactically, it reflects badly on Townsend.

I'm not doing it justice here as it's quite a technical analysis but I'd recommend listening to it

Just gave it a listen, it's interesting. It's concerning that he says our defence is really easy to work out and "retro" (probably a polite way of saying outdated) I guess we'll see soon enough if Tandy can change it up and make it less predictable.

Is what he says about our schools game accurate?

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:17 am

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:23 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:44 am

I'm not against it as such, but it's an 'all things in moderation' type of view I have. We could conceivably put out:

Kebble/Shoeman - xx - Nel/Berghan
Skinner - Toolis
Cowan - Thomson/Du Preez - Haining
xx
VDW
Grigg/Harris - Johnson/Lang
Maitland - Duhan
xx

That's off the top of my head of various qualification routes that don't involve our own system. The only three positions I couldn't think of a player are hooker, scrumhalf and fullback, and there are multiple I thought of more than one and some generous non-picks (Ali Price and SHC both from outside Scotland). I think all the players involved merit selection, but it is an awful lot.

Don't get me wrong I'm not completely against players not born here playing for Scotland (your Barclays, SHC's etc) and if I were the head coach theres no way I'd be overlooking the likes of VDM. Its also very subjective and not easy to disprove how "Scottish" someone is. Maitland for example has a grandparent who is Scottish but iirc was aiming for an AB cap. You've then players that have moved here as project players. Is VDM now nationalised and "Scottish"? Fuck knows but the team you've put up would be an embarrassment if fielded and its not really far off happening at times.

Why would you be in any way against that. Many, many Scots are born abroad to Scottish parents due to factors ike military service, including me, and are as Scottish as anyone born here. It's absolutely riidiculous to suggest otherwise.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:36 pm

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:17 am

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 10, 2020 12:23 pm
Don't get me wrong I'm not completely against players not born here playing for Scotland (your Barclays, SHC's etc) and if I were the head coach theres no way I'd be overlooking the likes of VDM. Its also very subjective and not easy to disprove how "Scottish" someone is. Maitland for example has a grandparent who is Scottish but iirc was aiming for an AB cap. You've then players that have moved here as project players. Is VDM now nationalised and "Scottish"? Fuck knows but the team you've put up would be an embarrassment if fielded and its not really far off happening at times.

Why would you be in any way against that. Many, many Scots are born abroad to Scottish parents due to factors ike military service, including me, and are as Scottish as anyone born here. It's absolutely riidiculous to suggest otherwise.

Nobody has.


Anyway...

VDM off to Worcester for 300k a year.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:04 pm

Jock42 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:36 pm

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 10:17 am

Why would you be in any way against that. Many, many Scots are born abroad to Scottish parents due to factors ike military service, including me, and are as Scottish as anyone born here. It's absolutely riidiculous to suggest otherwise.

Nobody has.


Anyway...

VDM off to Worcester for 300k a year.

Confirmed?

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:21 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 3:04 pm

Jock42 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 2:36 pm

Nobody has.


Anyway...

VDM off to Worcester for 300k a year.

Confirmed?

Just seen the source is the Rugby Paper. Whilst it might turn out to be true, the Rugby Paper is about as reliable a source as Wales Online. Absolute junk.