NPR

Agree with the points that technical jobs are massively undervalued in UK firms.

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:07 am

fishfoodie wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2023 8:24 pm

petej wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2023 6:32 pm
Agree that sometimes it is the only way to get a payrise and you really don't want to end up acting manager without the payrise which is quite common.

In engineering ive found the technical people who end up in management frequently do so because they are not good technically but say yes to management even when they really shouldn't. The other classic is promoted into middle management so they can do less damage. The worse project and line managers I've had were well qualified at management on paper having done most courses going but just awful with people.

My last company had a policy that capped the grades you could get to if you remained technical; so you either accepted that pay rises decreasing dramatically, or you became a people manager.

It led to frustrated senior engineers, & ambitious twats in management.

Eventually they recognized the mistake, & extended the Technical side grades, but they still have too many managers, & it'll take them a generation to unfuck the org.

I've mostly avoided this issue by working for American tech companies which, funnily enough, value tech skills highly but I have seen it in trad British organisations. I reckon it's even worse than you describe. A friend who worked for a former state owned enterprise described just what you say but with the extra bonus of management acrually trying to remove perks from engineers (that cost the company nothing) in order to maintain their status.

This actually was a very large US Multinational; & while they continually claimed to value technical skills, there was a gaping hole between what the said, & what they did.

Aren't we doing well!

Today the Institute for Government thinktank has published its annual survey of how key public services are performing and, frankly, its conclusions are dire. It says almost all public services are worse than they were at the time of the last election, and most of them are much worse than they were when the Conservatives took office in 2010.

Just been reading some of the transcript of the Covid Inquiry evidence by Martyn Reynolds, Johnsons PPS.
Dysfunction and shambles in No10 doesn't begin to describe it.
Oh and Reynolds "can't recall" why he turned on the disappearing function for his Whatsapp messaging just before the inquiry was announced!
I bet he can't

SaintK wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 4:09 pm Just been reading some of the transcript of the Covid Inquiry evidence by Martyn Reynolds, Johnsons PPS.
Dysfunction and shambles in No10 doesn't begin to describe it.
Oh and Reynolds "can't recall" why he turned on the disappearing function for his Whatsapp messaging just before the inquiry was announced!
I bet he can't

I watched some of the Enquiry on BBC News channel before going off to play golf this afternoon. Hugo Keith the KC basically ripped Reynolds evidence apart line by line, word by word. Reynolds was visibly shaken and shat his pants a number of times, quite rightly so. It is worth watching with the likes of Cain, Cummings and even the Blonde Bumblecunt himself all due to make an appearance - they must be shitting themselves. They will not be able to bullshit like they do with media interviews, this KC is extremely able and as sharp as a razor and will eviscerate them. I don't think the Fat Blonde Turd is going to like being held to account. Also the lengthy WhatsApp transcripts etc are drip fed into the evidence and it is very, very damning. It is developing into a shitfest with all of them trying to shaft others whilst pretending they were the good guys. Only the professional leads Whitty and Valance come out with any credit and reputations intact.

It really really was as bad as everyone thought it was in No10 during the pandemic and the Blonde Bumblecunt was as disastrous as we all thought he was. A complete and utter shitfest leading to 1,000s of additional deaths. They were criminally incompetent.

SaintK wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 9:49 am Aren't we doing well!

Today the Institute for Government thinktank has published its annual survey of how key public services are performing and, frankly, its conclusions are dire. It says almost all public services are worse than they were at the time of the last election, and most of them are much worse than they were when the Conservatives took office in 2010.

To the surprise of absolutely no one who has had to interact with any services over the last several years.

dpedin wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 5:05 pm

SaintK wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 4:09 pm Just been reading some of the transcript of the Covid Inquiry evidence by Martyn Reynolds, Johnsons PPS.
Dysfunction and shambles in No10 doesn't begin to describe it.
Oh and Reynolds "can't recall" why he turned on the disappearing function for his Whatsapp messaging just before the inquiry was announced!
I bet he can't

I watched some of the Enquiry on BBC News channel before going off to play golf this afternoon. Hugo Keith the KC basically ripped Reynolds evidence apart line by line, word by word. Reynolds was visibly shaken and shat his pants a number of times, quite rightly so. It is worth watching with the likes of Cain, Cummings and even the Blonde Bumblecunt himself all due to make an appearance - they must be shitting themselves. They will not be able to bullshit like they do with media interviews, this KC is extremely able and as sharp as a razor and will eviscerate them. I don't think the Fat Blonde Turd is going to like being held to account. Also the lengthy WhatsApp transcripts etc are drip fed into the evidence and it is very, very damning. It is developing into a shitfest with all of them trying to shaft others whilst pretending they were the good guys. Only the professional leads Whitty and Valance come out with any credit and reputations intact.

It really really was as bad as everyone thought it was in No10 during the pandemic and the Blonde Bumblecunt was as disastrous as we all thought he was. A complete and utter shitfest leading to 1,000s of additional deaths. They were criminally incompetent.

Whilst I strongly dislike Cummins and distrust his personal agenda, his testimony should "liven things up" even more since he has surely been holding stuff back for this moment

dpedin wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 5:05 pm

SaintK wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 4:09 pm Just been reading some of the transcript of the Covid Inquiry evidence by Martyn Reynolds, Johnsons PPS.
Dysfunction and shambles in No10 doesn't begin to describe it.
Oh and Reynolds "can't recall" why he turned on the disappearing function for his Whatsapp messaging just before the inquiry was announced!
I bet he can't

I watched some of the Enquiry on BBC News channel before going off to play golf this afternoon. Hugo Keith the KC basically ripped Reynolds evidence apart line by line, word by word. Reynolds was visibly shaken and shat his pants a number of times, quite rightly so. It is worth watching with the likes of Cain, Cummings and even the Blonde Bumblecunt himself all due to make an appearance - they must be shitting themselves. They will not be able to bullshit like they do with media interviews, this KC is extremely able and as sharp as a razor and will eviscerate them. I don't think the Fat Blonde Turd is going to like being held to account. Also the lengthy WhatsApp transcripts etc are drip fed into the evidence and it is very, very damning. It is developing into a shitfest with all of them trying to shaft others whilst pretending they were the good guys. Only the professional leads Whitty and Valance come out with any credit and reputations intact.

It really really was as bad as everyone thought it was in No10 during the pandemic and the Blonde Bumblecunt was as disastrous as we all thought he was. A complete and utter shitfest leading to 1,000s of additional deaths. They were criminally incompetent.

Those WhatsApp messages proving to be quite important then.

Not being able to hand over WhatsApp messages that pertain to government business should be akin to refusing a breathalyser, they should be prosecuted and sent to jail. These aren't their records to destroy, likely they should never have been using WhatsApp to begin with, but if they did that's their problem.

I don't mind if they're merely locked up for contempt until they hand over all records, but not just those they're willing to hand over citing those are the ones relevant to decision making.

The chances of fraud and deception by educated professionals being treated seriously are of course minuscule. It's much more important to lock up people with below average intelligence with patchy educational attainment, abusive childhoods and substance abuse issues in the present

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 11:03 pm Not being able to hand over WhatsApp messages that pertain to government business should be akin to refusing a breathalyser, they should be prosecuted and sent to jail. These aren't their records to destroy, likely they should never have been using WhatsApp to begin with, but if they did that's their problem.

I don't mind if they're merely locked up for contempt until they hand over all records, but not just those they're willing to hand over citing those are the ones relevant to decision making.

The chances of fraud and deception by educated professionals being treated seriously are of course minuscule. It's much more important to lock up people with below average intelligence with patchy educational attainment, abusive childhoods and substance abuse issues in the present

That would require the UK to treat the top 0.00001% the same as the smelly proles, & we know that isn't going to happen !

Some Democracies are capable of putting former Leaders in gaol, but I can't see the UK every breaking out of the class system

Lee Cain confirmed that Johnson took a two week holiday in February 2020. Having had a holiday in December in Mustique

Covid was the ‘wrong crisis for Boris Johnson’s skillset,’ Cain

Lee Cain has said Covid was the “wrong crisis for this prime minister’s skill set”, adding that Boris Johnson would “would often delay making decisions” and “change his mind on issues”, Archie Mitchell reports.

“Sometimes in politics, that can be a great strength,” Mr Cain told the official Covid inquiry, citing Brexit as an example.

“If you look at something like Covid, you need quick decisions, and you need people to hold the course,” Mr Cain said.

“So I felt it was the wrong challenge for him,” he added.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 38835.html


Perhaps Lee could let us know what kind of crisis the cunt had the skills to deal with ? ....

.. another girlfriend up the duff ?; I don't think so. He doesn't have an leadership skills. FULL STOP ! He wants to be popular, & this need makes him unsuitable for having any power at all.

His skillset is the same as a conman. Had he not been so posh and attended Eton he would probably be in jail or been killed after ending up in debt to criminals.

Wow, I'm shocked - really I am...


And now Cummings is about to take the stand...

It just gets more appalling the more you hear.

There ought to be an angry mob outside the cunts Country house tonight.

Boris Johnson was told “hungry children” were not the place to start when considering restraint on public finances in the pandemic, Caine tells the inquiry, as he described the overnment’s “huge blunder” around the Marcus Rashford free school meals campaign.

Lee Cain said there had been a clear lack of diversity in the prime minister’s top team when it came to informing policy and decision-making.

In a written statement to the inquiry, Mr Cain said: “I remember asking in the Cabinet Room of 20 people, how many people had received free school meals. Nobody had – resulting in a policy and political blind spot. This was a huge blunder.

“The PM (to some degree understandably) said we needed to draw a line in the sand on public spending commitments, but this was clearly not the place to draw that line – something the PM was told by his senior team.”

Sir Patrick Vallance’s diaries have revealed that Boris Johnson wanted older people to “accept their fate” and let the young “get on with life and get the economy going”, Archie Mitchell reports.

The former chief scientific adviser recalled a “bonkers” set of exchanges with the PM and said he believed Covid was “just nature’s way of dealing with old people”.

fishfoodie wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:51 pm It just gets more appalling the more you hear.

There ought to be an angry mob outside the cunts Country house tonight.

Spoiler

Show

Boris Johnson was told “hungry children” were not the place to start when considering restraint on public finances in the pandemic, Caine tells the inquiry, as he described the overnment’s “huge blunder” around the Marcus Rashford free school meals campaign.

Lee Cain said there had been a clear lack of diversity in the prime minister’s top team when it came to informing policy and decision-making.

In a written statement to the inquiry, Mr Cain said: “I remember asking in the Cabinet Room of 20 people, how many people had received free school meals. Nobody had – resulting in a policy and political blind spot. This was a huge blunder.

“The PM (to some degree understandably) said we needed to draw a line in the sand on public spending commitments, but this was clearly not the place to draw that line – something the PM was told by his senior team.”

Sir Patrick Vallance’s diaries have revealed that Boris Johnson wanted older people to “accept their fate” and let the young “get on with life and get the economy going”, Archie Mitchell reports.

The former chief scientific adviser recalled a “bonkers” set of exchanges with the PM and said he believed Covid was “just nature’s way of dealing with old people”.

Evidently the cunt and his family are somewhere in the Caribbean on holiday at someone else's expense..........again!

I remember asking in the Cabinet Room of 20 people, how many people had received free school meals. Nobody had – resulting in a policy and political blind spot. This was a huge blunder.

Indicative of a general problem they have - completely divorced from the experiences of real people and lacking any understanding as to the impact public services have on lives.

sockwithaticket wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 1:40 pm

I remember asking in the Cabinet Room of 20 people, how many people had received free school meals. Nobody had – resulting in a policy and political blind spot. This was a huge blunder.

Indicative of a general problem they have - completely divorced from the experiences of real people and lacking any understanding as to the impact public services have on lives.

Yeah; he could have asked if they'd ever used the NHS, or sent their kids to regular schools, or needed to use public transport, or any one of a hundred other questions, & the answer would be the same.

The nearest the cunt will get to the experience of the proles, will be if his nice new swimming pool is filled with the excrement the water companies are filling the rivers with

So, what becomes apparent is BoJo wasn't interested in bad news and if he was informed then it would've made no difference anyway because it was well known that he was a blustering buffoon. Also a culture amongst the Cabinet of not letting events interfere with plans for their personal lives...and lest we forget that Cummins was instrumental in Johnson becoming PM and shaping his team.

With the stuff coming out of the Covid enquiry I find myself focusing on the behaviours rather that the decisions.

I'm not handing out a complete free pass, just trying to acknowledge that it was a horrible situation and I bet I'd have made some pretty awful decisions in their place too.

The behaviours though are absolutely stinking. I've seen better bahaviours (by far) from 17/18 year old's starting their first job.

C T wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 4:18 pm With the stuff coming out of the Covid enquiry I find myself focusing on the behaviours rather that the decisions.

I'm not handing out a complete free pass, just trying to acknowledge that it was a horrible situation and I bet I'd have made some pretty awful decisions in their place too.

The behaviours though are absolutely stinking. I've seen better bahaviours (by far) from 17/18 year old's starting their first job.

The really stupid bit was using their real names in the WhatsApp chats instead of giving each other silly nicknames. "Bus-wanker? Can't prove that was me, Your Honour..."

Looks like Whitty and Vallance followed Mae West's advice about diaries.

C T wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 4:18 pm With the stuff coming out of the Covid enquiry I find myself focusing on the behaviours rather that the decisions.

I'm not handing out a complete free pass, just trying to acknowledge that it was a horrible situation and I bet I'd have made some pretty awful decisions in their place too.

The behaviours though are absolutely stinking. I've seen better bahaviours (by far) from 17/18 year old's starting their first job.

It was undoubtedly a horrible situation, & time when decisions could have horrific consequences; but, (you knew it was coming), one of the reasons why it was so horrible, was because they'd shutdown the expert working group that was developing plans for use in case of a pandemic, because these had been correctly deemed the most probably disaster.

We also today heard from Scummings, whose mantra of tear everything down in Whitehall, & hire a few weirdos who agree with my world view, a plan that isn't exactly conducive to rolling out plans in the event of a pandemic, especially when he was aided & abetted by JRMs plans to fire 40k Civil Servants.

When their Party was responsible for the shit state of the NHS, & the complete lack of any preparation or plans, they'll get scant sympathy from me, especially when they completely ignored the experts when they eventually got them involved.

Despite all this, Opencloset and another 25% of the country will vote for any cunt with a blue rosette.

sefton wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 7:57 pm Despite all this, Opencloset and another 25% of the country will vote for any cunt with a blue rosette.

Never Labour:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 38609.html

Labour MP Andy McDonald suspended over ‘between the river and the sea’ Pro-Palestine speech

Labour - suspends MP for dodgy speech
Conservatives - promote someone who routinely spouts hateful rhetoric to Home Secretary

sockwithaticket wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 8:37 pm Labour - suspends MP for dodgy speech
Conservatives - promote someone who routinely spouts hateful rhetoric to Home Secretary

Now, now, she was angry that some people are deliberately operating below the criminal threshold.

Hal Jordan wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 6:20 pm Looks like Whitty and Vallance followed Mae West's advice about diaries.

What do you mean?

fishfoodie wrote: Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:23 pm

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:07 am

fishfoodie wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2023 8:24 pm

My last company had a policy that capped the grades you could get to if you remained technical; so you either accepted that pay rises decreasing dramatically, or you became a people manager.

It led to frustrated senior engineers, & ambitious twats in management.

Eventually they recognized the mistake, & extended the Technical side grades, but they still have too many managers, & it'll take them a generation to unfuck the org.

I've mostly avoided this issue by working for American tech companies which, funnily enough, value tech skills highly but I have seen it in trad British organisations. I reckon it's even worse than you describe. A friend who worked for a former state owned enterprise described just what you say but with the extra bonus of management acrually trying to remove perks from engineers (that cost the company nothing) in order to maintain their status.

This actually was a very large US Multinational; & while they continually claimed to value technical skills, there was a gaping hole between what the said, & what they did.

They want "business leaders", basically folks whose skillset is being pushy.

sturginho wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 9:23 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 6:20 pm Looks like Whitty and Vallance followed Mae West's advice about diaries.

What do you mean?

I always say, keep a diary and someday it’ll keep you

Uncle fester wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 9:48 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Sat Oct 28, 2023 12:23 pm

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:07 am
I've mostly avoided this issue by working for American tech companies which, funnily enough, value tech skills highly but I have seen it in trad British organisations. I reckon it's even worse than you describe. A friend who worked for a former state owned enterprise described just what you say but with the extra bonus of management acrually trying to remove perks from engineers (that cost the company nothing) in order to maintain their status.

This actually was a very large US Multinational; & while they continually claimed to value technical skills, there was a gaping hole between what the said, & what they did.

They want "business leaders", basically folks whose skillset is being pushy.

They had no idea WTF they wanted !

As you are probably aware, they went mad & decided they were a, "High Tech", organization, & that they clearly needed the best, so they moved the minimum threshold for many jobs up to a PhD.

Being the big mouth I am, I pointed out that; (a) we were little more than puppets to people in the US, & any idea/improvement that didn't originate in the US, was clearly inferior, & (b) People who've gotten themselves PhDs, have funny ideas .... like they might want to contribute, & after a year or two of being treated like dogsbodies by a H1B kid in the US,might just get fed up & fuck off somewhere else.

I didn't have a PhD, I didn't have Masters, I didn't even have a Degree, I just had an Engineering Diploma, & a few years experience, & I was able to see that the job I was doing & getting an Outstanding rating for, didn't need rocket scientists, & even with my humble qualification, I still could spot bullshitters from 100m

Not getting very much media attention this morning compared to "Look at me!" Cummings, but by some accounts the evidence of Helen MacNamara (Deputy Cabinet Secretary at Cabinet Office) is more damning by far.

Also noticeable how much the Fail and Torygraph still plying the "witchhunt" line in their defence of the big dog

fishfoodie wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 6:59 pm

C T wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 4:18 pm With the stuff coming out of the Covid enquiry I find myself focusing on the behaviours rather that the decisions.

I'm not handing out a complete free pass, just trying to acknowledge that it was a horrible situation and I bet I'd have made some pretty awful decisions in their place too.

The behaviours though are absolutely stinking. I've seen better bahaviours (by far) from 17/18 year old's starting their first job.

It was undoubtedly a horrible situation, & time when decisions could have horrific consequences; but, (you knew it was coming), one of the reasons why it was so horrible, was because they'd shutdown the expert working group that was developing plans for use in case of a pandemic, because these had been correctly deemed the most probably disaster.

We also today heard from Scummings, whose mantra of tear everything down in Whitehall, & hire a few weirdos who agree with my world view, a plan that isn't exactly conducive to rolling out plans in the event of a pandemic, especially when he was aided & abetted by JRMs plans to fire 40k Civil Servants.

When their Party was responsible for the shit state of the NHS, & the complete lack of any preparation or plans, they'll get scant sympathy from me, especially when they completely ignored the experts when they eventually got them involved.

This part of the Enquiry is only focused on the decision making processes and political governance, it is not looking at the actual decisions made and the impact they had on the population, that comes later. They will also look forensically at the procurement processes for PPE, vaccines, etc which should be interesting! As a result the Enquiry Chair and KC are really looking at how the Gov was set up and structured, how well it operated as a function in the face of the pandemic and how politics played into the processes.

From the evidence to date, and remember it is only looking at the evidence - written, WhatsApp and verbal - it is clear that No10 and the Civil Service machinery it put in place, was unfit to deal with the pandemic. This was, as has become clear, due to lack of preparedness, incompetence and inability to deal with the situation, the political drivers and the toxicity of the culture around the 'Head Office' led by the likes of the Blonde Bumblecunt and his cronies. The lack of leadership was palpable and everyone to date has basically said the Fat Blonde Turd wasn't up to the job - quelle surprise!

It is only going to get worse for all involved as the rats in the sack will increasingly consume their own as the Enquiry proceeds with many realising that their only hope of redemption is to tell the truth in front of the excellent KC and to dob their mates/bosses in it in the hope that the focus will be on the top dogs (sic!). The politicians will be eviscerated when they turn up to face the evidence so far presented. The flurry of Tory MPs saying they will stand down at the next GE is no coincidence.

tabascoboy wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2023 10:49 am Not getting very much media attention this morning compared to "Look at me!" Cummings, but by some accounts the evidence of Helen MacNamara (Deputy Cabinet Secretary at Cabinet Office) is more damning by far.

Also noticeable how much the Fail and Torygraph still plying the "witchhunt" line in their defence of the big dog

She pretty much confirms what we all suspected in terms of the Mets Partygate investigation being a complete sham.

All of this has to be viewed through the prism of Johnson's mind. The world owes him the following

No strings attached sex
Paying for his lifestyle
The prestige of authority with none of the responsibility
No questions asked

Provided you can either directly provide him with one or more of these things, or facilitate them, then he will pay attention to you and is happy to scratch your back irrespective of the law or any sense of moral propriety.

As soon as you cannot provide, or he becomes bored with you, he will drop you and move to the next thing.

If you could never provide these things, or require some form of altruism or unrewarded effort on his part, then he does not care.

Place this person at the head of government and surround him with elected and unelected cranks, sex pests, coke heads, purse stuffers, absolute zealots, authoritarians and people who believe they were born to rule and you have the perfect storm we faced.

No more laughing at the Orange Traitor for suggesting injecting bleach, or shining light to kill the virus

Mr Cummings wrote: "A low point was when he* circulated a video of a guy blowing a special hair dryer up his nose 'to kill COVID' and asked [Sir Chris Whitty and Sir Patrick Vallance] what they thought."

https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnso ... s-12998129

* He being the blond cunt

I really think we need to start prosecuting them all, stripping them of their citizenship and shipping them to Rwanda.

Hal Jordan wrote: Wed Nov 01, 2023 6:39 pm All of this has to be viewed through the prism of Johnson's mind. The world owes him the following

No strings attached sex
Paying for his lifestyle
The prestige of authority with none of the responsibility
No questions asked

Provided you can either directly provide him with one or more of these things, or facilitate them, then he will pay attention to you and is happy to scratch your back irrespective of the law or any sense of moral propriety.

As soon as you cannot provide, or he becomes bored with you, he will drop you and move to the next thing.

If you could never provide these things, or require some form of altruism or unrewarded effort on his part, then he does not care.

Place this person at the head of government and surround him with elected and unelected cranks, sex pests, coke heads, purse stuffers, absolute zealots, authoritarians and people who believe they were born to rule and you have the perfect storm we faced.

Sounds pretty accurate