NPR

I like neeps wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 3:50 pm

westport wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:39 am Edinburgh Rugby has completed the signing of England international tighthead prop Paul Hill from Northampton Saints on a two-year deal.

Not Scottish qualified, is Luan de Bruin under contract? Edinburgh's lack of tight head prop development really is beyond a farce.

Tichtheid wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:07 pm

I like neeps wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 3:50 pm

westport wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 11:39 am Edinburgh Rugby has completed the signing of England international tighthead prop Paul Hill from Northampton Saints on a two-year deal.

Not Scottish qualified, is Luan de Bruin under contract? Edinburgh's lack of tight head prop development really is beyond a farce.

I can't think of one tighthead that has come through Edinburgh to play for us regularly let alone move up to Scotland since Geoff Cross and he left ten years ago. McCallum didn't make it, same for Dan Gamble and Dan Winning.

Mind you, Glasgow have had Zander and now, hopefully, Murphy Walker in the same time frame

I like neeps wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:16 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:07 pm

I like neeps wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 3:50 pm

Not Scottish qualified, is Luan de Bruin under contract? Edinburgh's lack of tight head prop development really is beyond a farce.

I can't think of one tighthead that has come through Edinburgh to play for us regularly let alone move up to Scotland since Geoff Cross and he left ten years ago. McCallum didn't make it, same for Dan Gamble and Dan Winning.

Mind you, Glasgow have had Zander and now, hopefully, Murphy Walker in the same time frame

Yeah and Fagerson only actually played because he's a phenom. Both pro teams can't develop front row because they won't accept the risk that comes with it.

What was great about Fagerson as Toonie allowed the odd pumping at the scrum at the beginning.

Big D wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 8:15 pm Christie broke his arm at the weekend.

Biffer wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:29 pm

I like neeps wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:16 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:07 pm


I can't think of one tighthead that has come through Edinburgh to play for us regularly let alone move up to Scotland since Geoff Cross and he left ten years ago. McCallum didn't make it, same for Dan Gamble and Dan Winning.

Mind you, Glasgow have had Zander and now, hopefully, Murphy Walker in the same time frame

Yeah and Fagerson only actually played because he's a phenom. Both pro teams can't develop front row because they won't accept the risk that comes with it.

What was great about Fagerson as Toonie allowed the odd pumping at the scrum at the beginning.

There's no decent level down to play in to develop. It's a problem for all our young (18-22ish) players, but front row in particular. Super Six was meant to help change that, but the old club men have had their way and it's gone. Fuck knows how we're going to develop anyone now.

I like neeps wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 11:37 am

Biffer wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:29 pm

I like neeps wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:16 pm

Yeah and Fagerson only actually played because he's a phenom. Both pro teams can't develop front row because they won't accept the risk that comes with it.

What was great about Fagerson as Toonie allowed the odd pumping at the scrum at the beginning.

There's no decent level down to play in to develop. It's a problem for all our young (18-22ish) players, but front row in particular. Super Six was meant to help change that, but the old club men have had their way and it's gone. Fuck knows how we're going to develop anyone now.

The super6 didn't help develop props as pro team coaches still didn't play them. The super6 coaches rarely actually played the young props either until the last season or two when 3 of the clubs were soft quitting.

Props will be developed by taking their lumps at pro level and coaches skill need to be told to accept that.

I like neeps wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 11:37 am

Biffer wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:29 pm

I like neeps wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:16 pm

Yeah and Fagerson only actually played because he's a phenom. Both pro teams can't develop front row because they won't accept the risk that comes with it.

What was great about Fagerson as Toonie allowed the odd pumping at the scrum at the beginning.

There's no decent level down to play in to develop. It's a problem for all our young (18-22ish) players, but front row in particular. Super Six was meant to help change that, but the old club men have had their way and it's gone. Fuck knows how we're going to develop anyone now.

The super6 didn't help develop props as pro team coaches still didn't play them. The super6 coaches rarely actually played the young props either until the last season or two when 3 of the clubs were soft quitting.

Props will be developed by taking their lumps at pro level and coaches skill need to be told to accept that.

robmatic wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 12:48 pm

I like neeps wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 11:37 am

Biffer wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 4:29 pm

There's no decent level down to play in to develop. It's a problem for all our young (18-22ish) players, but front row in particular. Super Six was meant to help change that, but the old club men have had their way and it's gone. Fuck knows how we're going to develop anyone now.

The super6 didn't help develop props as pro team coaches still didn't play them. The super6 coaches rarely actually played the young props either until the last season or two when 3 of the clubs were soft quitting.

Props will be developed by taking their lumps at pro level and coaches skill need to be told to accept that.

Props elsewhere get developed by playing Premiership Cup, Currie/Varsity Cup, espoirs, NPC etc. I don't think there's many other countries where props are expected to go straight from U20s to holding their own in top tier pro rugby without playing any other competitive games.

It is easy to say that the pro coaches need to play young props and accept some doings in the scrum, but we all know that those coaches are getting sacked if they don't qualify for the Champions Cup so of course they are going to be conservative.

Yr Alban wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 2:29 pm Re: props, Embra are struggling to make the big cup every season and that’s without developing any SQ props. Can’t see how it will make a great deal of difference if they do.

Biffer wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 9:21 pm Kind of in relation to the ‘players born overseas’ thing, Patrick Kielty is every Irish/Scots/Welshman who moved to England for work

Biffer wrote: Wed Apr 03, 2024 9:21 pm Kind of in relation to the ‘players born overseas’ thing, Patrick Kielty is every Irish/Scots/Welshman who moved to England for work

Dogbert wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 1:19 pm Glasgow Team for Quins, probably as strong a team as Glasgow can put out. Still about 6 players off the strongest team, this will give us some idea on where Glasgow really are

1 Nathan McBeth (35)
2 Johnny Matthews (65)
3 Zander Fagerson (140)
4 Max Williamson (11)
5 Scott Cummings (117)
6 Matt Fagerson (103)
7 Rory Darge (41)
8 Jack Dempsey (42)

9 George Horne (110)
10 Tom Jordan (41)
11 Kyle Rowe (12)
12 Sione Tuipulotu (46)
13 Stafford McDowall (73)
14 Kyle Steyn (C) (69)
15 Josh McKay (42)

Replacements

16 Gregor Hiddleston (5)
17 Oli Kebble (98)
18 Lucio Sordoni (28)
19 Sintu Manjezi (20)
20 Ally Miller (27)
21 Henco Venter (13)
22 Jamie Dobie (59)
23 Duncan Weir (146)

Unavailable for selection: Jamie Bhatti (foot), Fraser Brown (knee), Sebastian Cancelliere (knee), Richie Gray (bicep), Huw Jones (hand), Jack Mann (ankle), JP du Preez (knee), Ollie Smith (knee), George Turner (foot), Sione Vailanu (knee).

westport wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:49 am Mish extends his stay at Edinburgh

Biffer wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 2:11 pm

Dogbert wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 1:19 pm Glasgow Team for Quins, probably as strong a team as Glasgow can put out. Still about 6 players off the strongest team, this will give us some idea on where Glasgow really are

1 Nathan McBeth (35)
2 Johnny Matthews (65)
3 Zander Fagerson (140)
4 Max Williamson (11)
5 Scott Cummings (117)
6 Matt Fagerson (103)
7 Rory Darge (41)
8 Jack Dempsey (42)

9 George Horne (110)
10 Tom Jordan (41)
11 Kyle Rowe (12)
12 Sione Tuipulotu (46)
13 Stafford McDowall (73)
14 Kyle Steyn (C) (69)
15 Josh McKay (42)

Replacements

16 Gregor Hiddleston (5)
17 Oli Kebble (98)
18 Lucio Sordoni (28)
19 Sintu Manjezi (20)
20 Ally Miller (27)
21 Henco Venter (13)
22 Jamie Dobie (59)
23 Duncan Weir (146)

Unavailable for selection: Jamie Bhatti (foot), Fraser Brown (knee), Sebastian Cancelliere (knee), Richie Gray (bicep), Huw Jones (hand), Jack Mann (ankle), JP du Preez (knee), Ollie Smith (knee), George Turner (foot), Sione Vailanu (knee).

I'm down in London tomorrow night and thought about going. But the cheapest ticket is £57. So I'll pass.

Tichtheid wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 2:30 pm

westport wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:49 am Mish extends his stay at Edinburgh

I think he'll slide down the pecking order, Crosbie and Ritchie must be our preferred starting flankers. Having said that, depending on how recruitment for Big Bill's replacement goes I can see Crosbie taking up the number 8 shirt. I'd like to think Liam McConnell will get some game time, he looks ready for it, but they just don't get much of a chance until we are down to bare bones through injury.

Does anyone know if Jamie Campbell has played much rugby this season? He played his one game for Edinburgh two years ago and that seems to be it. Max Williamson is making a name for himself at Glasgow and he's a year younger than Campbell.

KingBlairhorn wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 8:49 am

Tichtheid wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 2:30 pm

westport wrote: Thu Apr 04, 2024 11:49 am Mish extends his stay at Edinburgh

I think he'll slide down the pecking order, Crosbie and Ritchie must be our preferred starting flankers. Having said that, depending on how recruitment for Big Bill's replacement goes I can see Crosbie taking up the number 8 shirt. I'd like to think Liam McConnell will get some game time, he looks ready for it, but they just don't get much of a chance until we are down to bare bones through injury.

Does anyone know if Jamie Campbell has played much rugby this season? He played his one game for Edinburgh two years ago and that seems to be it. Max Williamson is making a name for himself at Glasgow and he's a year younger than Campbell.

I'm not sure about Campbell but Freddy Douglas is the other that it would be great to see get some gametime into next season. He will be 19 next year, that is the age we should be looking for players to start breaking through, not 22 or 23 as it often seems to be now.

6: Jamie Ritchie, Sam Skinner
7: Luke Crosbie, Hamish Watson, Connor Boyle, Freddy Douglas
8: Bradbury?, Ben Muncaster, Tom Dodd, Mitch Eadie

I would say the depth chart looks something like this if we are putting players in their best positions. For me there is a depth issue at blindside where Richie is the only recognised player who's best position is there. Crosbie is an excellent 6 of course, but I would rather him at 7. At 8 the strong rumours are Bradbury is returning, he would slot straight in to the best starting back row once Mata is away. Other than Watson I think all the other players can play across the back row to some extent but my preference would be for a clear depth chart at each position to make sure we get adequate gametime into younger players (i.e. if Bradbury is not available then Muncaster should come in, not Crosbie or Skinner).

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 10:57 am What are people seeing as the key distinctions between a 6 and an 8? To be perfectly honest I don't see many at all. The 8 has to control the ball at the base of the scrum and they are often the ones who gather the kickoff because they are good at carrying in traffic.

To me the core role of the 8 is to be an abrasive carrier, someone who likes to tackle hard and is another option at the lineout. Everyone on the park is supposed to be good over the ball now, everyone passes and catches and has pace to varying degrees, but the 8 is no more needing of those skills than the others in the back row

There are few 8s in the game who can offload like Big Bill, so that isn't necessarily a needed trait. If Bradbury does come back then we'll have a sizeable breakaway trio available, but if not I'm still pushing for Crosbie to fill that shirt. Everitt has started him at 8 three times this season and I really like a team with Crosbie in it, he brings an edge that not many others in either Edinburgh or Glasgow do, but he also has all those core skills to play at 8.


btw, I'm pretty sure Mitch Eadie was short term cover and is away again now.

Jock42 wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 12:18 pm Who is Jones?

Scott not trusted at 10? Doesn't seem to be getting much game time. Bench not giving many options in the backs with 2 12s there.

Biffer wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 12:13 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 10:57 am What are people seeing as the key distinctions between a 6 and an 8? To be perfectly honest I don't see many at all. The 8 has to control the ball at the base of the scrum and they are often the ones who gather the kickoff because they are good at carrying in traffic.

To me the core role of the 8 is to be an abrasive carrier, someone who likes to tackle hard and is another option at the lineout. Everyone on the park is supposed to be good over the ball now, everyone passes and catches and has pace to varying degrees, but the 8 is no more needing of those skills than the others in the back row

There are few 8s in the game who can offload like Big Bill, so that isn't necessarily a needed trait. If Bradbury does come back then we'll have a sizeable breakaway trio available, but if not I'm still pushing for Crosbie to fill that shirt. Everitt has started him at 8 three times this season and I really like a team with Crosbie in it, he brings an edge that not many others in either Edinburgh or Glasgow do, but he also has all those core skills to play at 8.


btw, I'm pretty sure Mitch Eadie was short term cover and is away again now.

Key role of a 6 is being a niggly pain in the ass shite bag. See Peter O'Mahony.

Yr Alban wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 8:59 pm Did Glasgow fuck that as badly as the text updates suggested?

ASMO wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 9:02 pm

Yr Alban wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 8:59 pm Did Glasgow fuck that as badly as the text updates suggested?

Yep, lost it in the first half, gave 12 penalties away, Quins had next to no pressure on them.

ASMO wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 9:02 pm

Yr Alban wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 8:59 pm Did Glasgow fuck that as badly as the text updates suggested?

Yep, lost it in the first half, gave 12 penalties away, Quins had next to no pressure on them.

fishfoodie wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 9:11 pm

ASMO wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 9:02 pm

Yr Alban wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 8:59 pm Did Glasgow fuck that as badly as the text updates suggested?

Yep, lost it in the first half, gave 12 penalties away, Quins had next to no pressure on them.

I dislocated an eyebrow when they passed up an easy 3 in the last few minutes to go for the line; amateur hour stuff.

JM2K6 wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 9:29 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 9:11 pm

ASMO wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 9:02 pm

Yep, lost it in the first half, gave 12 penalties away, Quins had next to no pressure on them.

I dislocated an eyebrow when they passed up an easy 3 in the last few minutes to go for the line; amateur hour stuff.

Three points wasn't going to change much. Quins were always going to go for a try and they won by four, which is more than three.

Glasgow looked gassed at the end which was a surprise. That final play summed it up. The difference between the teams was razor thin - Quins just held out for three big defensive sets in the second half when Glasgow hadn't quite managed the same in the first half.

C T wrote: Sat Apr 06, 2024 9:55 am

JM2K6 wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 9:29 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 9:11 pm

I dislocated an eyebrow when they passed up an easy 3 in the last few minutes to go for the line; amateur hour stuff.

Three points wasn't going to change much. Quins were always going to go for a try and they won by four, which is more than three.

Glasgow looked gassed at the end which was a surprise. That final play summed it up. The difference between the teams was razor thin - Quins just held out for three big defensive sets in the second half when Glasgow hadn't quite managed the same in the first half.

That seems very fair to me.

Two great teams to watch putting on a great game that was ultimately as close as the scoreline suggests.

Great atmosphere at the Stoop, was really impressive.