NPR

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:35 am**

The negative for SA Rugby with our teams play up North is that our best young talent will be poached quicker.

Salman Moerat had an excellent tour and caught the eye of Sale Sharks.
Look like he may replace Lood at Sale Sharks.

https://www.news24.com/sport/rugby/unit ... e-20211129

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:50 am**

Bulls lose Trevor to Racing. That's another big loss after Duane. Seem to be struggling to hold on to senior players.

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:52 am**

As long as they remain eligible for the Boks I have no problem with our guys going North for a few years. Its a better, faster harder league and they come out of it as better Boks or potential Boks. Its shit for our local teams but grows our base for the Springboks. And it gives our guys an opportunity to earn a living sometimes well into their thirties.

Its amazing how many of our lads are out there playing now. I see Grant Hermanus who was once touted for big things is now playing in Paraguay. Paarl boy Gideon van Wyk who was a schoolboy star at Paarl has just signed for the Houston Sabercats.

Bjorn Basson - remember him - is playing in San Diego at age 34.

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:59 am**

I'm ok with it, but wasn't that also part of the point of joining the URC? For our unions to earn better money and pay players more to stay?

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:29 am**

assfly wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:59 am I'm ok with it, but wasn't that also part of the point of joining the URC? For our unions to earn better money and pay players more to stay?

Yes but we've had a less than ideal start with no crowds, fixture interruptions and WPRU shitting their nest. I imagine it will stabilize and our teams will quickly become more competitive in the URC. Once they do, hopefully crowds and sponsors will follow. The Sharks, Bulls, Cheetahs and Lions all seem to be well managed right now.

I see plenty of Stormers shirts out and about in public. WP have been let down horribly by their administrators. Its weird because its a great place for pro rugby players to live, train and play. A huge fandom and the best grassroots game in the country. Looks like Kitshoff is keen to split too.

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:22 am**

Was hoping Rian Oberholser would sort out the shite.

WP will survive, they have the structure to spit out young talent year after year.

Kitshoff will be a huge loss His transfer fee is way to high at the moment.

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:55 am**

assfly wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:59 am I'm ok with it, but wasn't that also part of the point of joining the URC? For our unions to earn better money and pay players more to stay?

URC is small fry and just a stepping stone. The ERC is where the real money is.

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:22 am**

average joe wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:55 am
assfly wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:59 am I'm ok with it, but wasn't that also part of the point of joining the URC? For our unions to earn better money and pay players more to stay?
URC is small fry and just a stepping stone. The ERC is where the real money is.

Our teams will play ERC in 2023.

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:28 am**

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:22 am
average joe wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:55 am
assfly wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:59 am I'm ok with it, but wasn't that also part of the point of joining the URC? For our unions to earn better money and pay players more to stay?
URC is small fry and just a stepping stone. The ERC is where the real money is.
Our teams will play ERC in 2023.

I think you are probably right

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:01 am**

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:28 am
OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:22 am
average joe wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:55 am
URC is small fry and just a stepping stone. The ERC is where the real money is.
Our teams will play ERC in 2023.
I think you are probably right

The qualification for next year's ERC is the pool winners from the URC plus the next four in the overall table go into the Championship Cup competition, with the rest going into the secondary Challenge Cup, where you play French B teams or C teams when they are away from home.

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:03 am**

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:01 am
Slick wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:28 am
OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:22 am
Our teams will play ERC in 2023.
I think you are probably right

The qualification for next year's ERC is the pool winners from the URC plus the next four in the overall table go into the Championship Cup competition, with the rest going into the secondary Challenge Cup, where you play French B teams or C teams when they are away from home.

Sounds about right for the Saffa teams

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:08 am**

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:01 am
Slick wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:28 am
OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:22 am
Our teams will play ERC in 2023.
I think you are probably right

The qualification for next year's ERC is the pool winners from the URC plus the next four in the overall table go into the Championship Cup competition, with the rest going into the secondary Challenge Cup, where you play French B teams or C teams when they are away from home.

And the Challenge Cup games may not even be televised.

Both the Champions Cup and Challenge Cup have terrible pool formats as well this season, hope they make the competitions more meaningful with the addition of the SA teams.

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:19 am**

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:03 am
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:01 am
Slick wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:28 am

I think you are probably right

The qualification for next year's ERC is the pool winners from the URC plus the next four in the overall table go into the Championship Cup competition, with the rest going into the secondary Challenge Cup, where you play French B teams or C teams when they are away from home.
Sounds about right for the Saffa teams

So we all think this is a done deal then?
The English and French Pro clubs own a combined 67% of ERC. I would imagine that there would have to be a very big increase in potential revenues particularly in broadcast fees for them to even start negotiations.

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:21 am**

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:19 am
Slick wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:03 am
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:01 am

The qualification for next year's ERC is the pool winners from the URC plus the next four in the overall table go into the Championship Cup competition, with the rest going into the secondary Challenge Cup, where you play French B teams or C teams when they are away from home.
Sounds about right for the Saffa teams
So we all think this is a done deal then?
The English and French Pro clubs own a combined 67% of ERC. I would imagine that there would have to be a very big increase in potential revenues particularly in broadcast fees for them to even start negotiations.

I'm sure CVC can twist their arms

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:26 am**

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:19 am
Slick wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:03 am
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:01 am

The qualification for next year's ERC is the pool winners from the URC plus the next four in the overall table go into the Championship Cup competition, with the rest going into the secondary Challenge Cup, where you play French B teams or C teams when they are away from home.
Sounds about right for the Saffa teams
So we all think this is a done deal then?
The English and French Pro clubs own a combined 67% of ERC. I would imagine that there would have to be a very big increase in potential revenues particularly in broadcast fees for them to even start negotiations.

It's on the EPCR site

https://www.epcrugby.com/champions-cup/ ... ification/

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:36 am**

SA teams already make provision for this according to Lions coach Rudolph Straeuli. It will clash with our CC meaning they will have two squads.

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:53 am**

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:26 am
SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:19 am
Slick wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:03 am

Sounds about right for the Saffa teams
So we all think this is a done deal then?
The English and French Pro clubs own a combined 67% of ERC. I would imagine that there would have to be a very big increase in potential revenues particularly in broadcast fees for them to even start negotiations.
It's on the EPCR site

https://www.epcrugby.com/champions-cup/ ... ification/

Ah, fair enough. Missed that!
Would be interested to see what additional revenues were agreed, the Pro 14 and Prem are usually fairly aggressive negotiators

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:25 pm**

So Bulls and Stormers to the ERC. Cheetahs and Griquas into the URC!

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:57 pm**

Chilli wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:25 pm So Bulls and Stormers to the ERC. Cheetahs and Griquas into the URC!

I can't see the qualification criteria being terribly popular; when South African sides are propping up the table; & sides above them won't qualify.

Munster is currently 8 places above Stormers; but only the 3rd Irish side; so won't qualify.

Apart from anything else; the Pro14 was already justifiably getting stick, for qualifying teams who only went on to get stuffed in the HEC. Everyone wanted to get an Italian side, or a weak Welsh side in the pool.

It should just be top 8, regardless of where they come from.

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:28 pm**

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:57 pm
Chilli wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:25 pm So Bulls and Stormers to the ERC. Cheetahs and Griquas into the URC!
I can't see the qualification criteria being terribly popular; when South African sides are propping up the table; & sides above them won't qualify.

Munster is currently 8 places above Stormers; but only the 3rd Irish side; so won't qualify.

Apart from anything else; the Pro14 was already justifiably getting stick, for qualifying teams who only went on to get stuffed in the HEC. Everyone wanted to get an Italian side, or a weak Welsh side in the pool.

It should just be top 8, regardless of where they come from.

That's not how qualification from the URC works. It's the 4 pool winners plus the next four in the final overall table, which at the moment works out as the top 7 plus Stormers. So, Benetton would be the only aggrieved set of fans based on the current table.

I'm not going to sit down and do the maths but I imagine it's quite difficult for a pool winner to not be in the top 8 or close to it at the end of the season, because even when a pool is weaker the best team in it will be picking up points in the derbies.

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:05 pm**

robmatic wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:28 pm
fishfoodie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:57 pm
Chilli wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:25 pm So Bulls and Stormers to the ERC. Cheetahs and Griquas into the URC!
I can't see the qualification criteria being terribly popular; when South African sides are propping up the table; & sides above them won't qualify.

Munster is currently 8 places above Stormers; but only the 3rd Irish side; so won't qualify.

Apart from anything else; the Pro14 was already justifiably getting stick, for qualifying teams who only went on to get stuffed in the HEC. Everyone wanted to get an Italian side, or a weak Welsh side in the pool.

It should just be top 8, regardless of where they come from.
That's not how qualification from the URC works. It's the 4 pool winners plus the next four in the final overall table, which at the moment works out as the top 7 plus Stormers. So, Benetton would be the only aggrieved set of fans based on the current table.

I'm not going to sit down and do the maths but I imagine it's quite difficult for a pool winner to not be in the top 8 or close to it at the end of the season, because even when a pool is weaker the best team in it will be picking up points in the derbies.

The link above says the top two from each pool; & the pools are by Nation, except with the Scots & Italian teams combined in one pool.

Qualification
HEINEKEN CHAMPIONS CUP

Twenty-four clubs will qualify for the 2022/23 Heineken Champions Cup as follows:

United Rugby Championship (8): The four pool winners and the next four highest-ranked clubs in the final league table.
TOP 14 (8): The eight highest-ranked clubs based on their final finishing positions.
Gallagher Premiership Rugby (8): The eight highest-ranked clubs based on their final finishing positions.

NB The winners of the 2022 Heineken Champions Cup and Challenge Cup will qualify if not already qualified from their own leagues.

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:24 pm**

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:05 pm
The link above says the top two from each pool; & the pools are by Nation, except with the Scots & Italian teams combined in one pool.

"The four pool winners and the next four highest-ranked clubs in the final league table" is not the top two from each pool.

Posted: **Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:27 pm**

robmatic wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:24 pm
fishfoodie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:05 pm
The link above says the top two from each pool; & the pools are by Nation, except with the Scots & Italian teams combined in one pool.

"The four pool winners and the next four highest-ranked clubs in the final league table" is not the top two from each pool.

Posted: **Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:37 am**

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:57 pm
Chilli wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:25 pm So Bulls and Stormers to the ERC. Cheetahs and Griquas into the URC!
I can't see the qualification criteria being terribly popular; when South African sides are propping up the table; & sides above them won't qualify.

Munster is currently 8 places above Stormers; but only the 3rd Irish side; so won't qualify.

Apart from anything else; the Pro14 was already justifiably getting stick, for qualifying teams who only went on to get stuffed in the HEC. Everyone wanted to get an Italian side, or a weak Welsh side in the pool.

It should just be top 8, regardless of where they come from.

Agreed.
I'm just taking the piss out of the $harks supporters

Posted: **Thu Dec 02, 2021 5:20 am**

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:57 pm
Chilli wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:25 pm So Bulls and Stormers to the ERC. Cheetahs and Griquas into the URC!
I can't see the qualification criteria being terribly popular; when South African sides are propping up the table; & sides above them won't qualify.

Munster is currently 8 places above Stormers; but only the 3rd Irish side; so won't qualify.

Apart from anything else; the Pro14 was already justifiably getting stick, for qualifying teams who only went on to get stuffed in the HEC. Everyone wanted to get an Italian side, or a weak Welsh side in the pool.

It should just be top 8, regardless of where they come from.

This happen when they use conferences.

They should have one table for all the teams playing each other once.

The Irish pool is now the weakest pool, playing each other home and away and the Saffer pool the hardest.

Posted: **Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:41 am**

Jake White: Bulls playing the Springboks this weekend
IOL

“We get to play another derby, and as I said to the players yesterday, we’ve played all these good sides – including SA A – this year, and now it’s almost like we are playing the Springboks,” White said.
“They’ve got nine Springboks back, a Scottish international, a Samoan international and an Australian international. It doesn’t get much tougher than that – the Sharks at home, with all those international players, is going to be a massive game for us. But I can tell you that we are very excited that we get to measure ourselves against an international side now again.”

Apart from Kolisi, Mbonambi, Am and Mapimpi, the other players who were on the Bok November tour were Ox Nche, Sbu Nkosi, Thomas du Toit, Aphelele Fassi and Grant Williams. In addition, flank Dylan Richardson made his Scotland Test debut in November, while Ben Tapuai is a former Wallaby centre and loose forward Olajuwon Noa has three Test caps for Samoa.

White expects the Sharks to seek revenge for their two consecutive Currie Cup final defeats at Loftus Versfeld.

That’s why I think it’s such a big week. It’s not only a local derby, but the game that we’ve played in the Currie Cup final twice now. They’ve got all these internationals – that says a lot for their squad. At home with that kind of team, there is a little bit of a buzz now. It’s like a Test match for us, and I’m looking forward to it,” the former Bok coach said.

“We’ve been growing slowly over the last 16-18 months, and we’re looking forward to seeing where we are. I get the sense now that Marcell Coetzee is going to get a crack to play against Siya, you get Bismarck and Grobbies to play against Bongi, and the list just goes on.”

Posted: **Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:52 am**

Sharks: 15 Anthony Volmink, 14 Sibusiso Nkosi, 13 Jeremy Ward, 12 Lukhanyo Am (captain), 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Henry Chamberlain, 9 Ruan Pienaar, 8 Phendulani Buthelezi, 7 Jeandre Labuschagne, 6 Siyamthanda Kolisi, 5 Hyron Andrews, 4 Ruben van Heerden, 3 Thomas du Toit, 2 Mbongeni Mbonambi, 1 Ntuthuko Mchunu.
Replacements: 16 Kerron van Vuuren, 17 Khwezi Mona, 18 Lourens Adriaanse, 19 Reniel Hugo, 20 Henco Venter, 21 Sanele Nohamba, 22 Joaquín Díaz Bonilla, 23 Werner Kok.

Decent team. But I wonder where Fassi is?

Posted: **Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:58 am**

assfly wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:52 am Sharks: 15 Anthony Volmink, 14 Sibusiso Nkosi, 13 Jeremy Ward, 12 Lukhanyo Am (captain), 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Henry Chamberlain, 9 Ruan Pienaar, 8 Phendulani Buthelezi, 7 Jeandre Labuschagne, 6 Siyamthanda Kolisi, 5 Hyron Andrews, 4 Ruben van Heerden, 3 Thomas du Toit, 2 Mbongeni Mbonambi, 1 Ntuthuko Mchunu.
Replacements: 16 Kerron van Vuuren, 17 Khwezi Mona, 18 Lourens Adriaanse, 19 Reniel Hugo, 20 Henco Venter, 21 Sanele Nohamba, 22 Joaquín Díaz Bonilla, 23 Werner Kok.

Decent team. But I wonder where Fassi is?

Wondering too.....maybe Covid

Posted: **Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:10 am**

WOW!
that is quite some $harks team.

I am happy that Bosch isn't playing.

Am at 12 and Yellow Card at 13? Surely the other way around?

Posted: **Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:10 am**

Bulls

15 Kurt-Lee Arendse, 14 Madosh Tambwe, 13 David Kriel, 12 Cornal Hendricks, 11 Richard Kriel, 10 Morne Steyn, 9 Embrose Papier, 8 Elrigh Louw, 7 Arno Botha, 6 Marcell Coetzee, 5 Ruan Nortje, 4 Walt Steenkamp, 3 Robert Hunt, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Gerhard Steenkamp

Substitutes: 16 Johan Grobbelaar, 17 Simphiwe Matanzima, 18 Lizo Gqoboka, 19 Jacques du Plessis, 20 Sintu Manjezi, 21 Zak Burger, 22 Chris Smith, 23 Harold Vorster

Posted: **Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:16 am**

Chilli wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:10 am Bulls

15 Kurt-Lee Arendse, 14 Madosh Tambwe, 13 David Kriel, 12 Cornal Hendricks, 11 Richard Kriel, 10 Morne Steyn, 9 Embrose Papier, 8 Elrigh Louw, 7 Arno Botha, 6 Marcell Coetzee, 5 Ruan Nortje, 4 Walt Steenkamp, 3 Robert Hunt, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Gerhard Steenkamp

Substitutes: 16 Johan Grobbelaar, 17 Simphiwe Matanzima, 18 Lizo Gqoboka, 19 Jacques du Plessis, 20 Sintu Manjezi, 21 Zak Burger, 22 Chris Smith, 23 Harold Vorster

Pulling out the big guns

Posted: **Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:54 am**

Sharks by 50.

Posted: **Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:01 pm**

It's a real tragedy that we're back to derbies. Struggling to get myself excited for this weekend's matches. Much more excited about the F1 race on Sunday.

Posted: **Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:20 pm**

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:54 am Sharks by 50.

At least.

Posted: **Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:21 pm**

Lions: 15 EW Viljoen, 14 Edwill van der Merwe, 13 Wandisile Simelane 12 Burger Odendaal (captain), 11 Sibahle Maxwane, 10 Fred Zeilinga, 9 Andre Warner, 8 Francke Horn, 7 Vincent Tshituka, 6 Jaco Kriel, 5 Reinhard Nothnagel, 4 Ruben Schoeman 3 Carlu Sadie, 2 Jaco Visagie, 1 Sithembiso Sithole.
Replacements: 16 Pieter Botha, 17 Morgan Naude, 18 Jannie du Plessis, 19 Willem Alberts, 20 Ruhan Straeuli, 21 Morne van den Berg, 22 Matt More 23 Tiaan Swanepoel.

Posted: **Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:38 pm**

Chilli wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:10 am Bulls

15 Kurt-Lee Arendse, 14 Madosh Tambwe, 13 David Kriel, 12 Cornal Hendricks, 11 Richard Kriel, 10 Morne Steyn, 9 Embrose Papier, 8 Elrigh Louw, 7 Arno Botha, 6 Marcell Coetzee, 5 Ruan Nortje, 4 Walt Steenkamp, 3 Robert Hunt, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Gerhard Steenkamp

Substitutes: 16 Johan Grobbelaar, 17 Simphiwe Matanzima, 18 Lizo Gqoboka, 19 Jacques du Plessis, 20 Sintu Manjezi, 21 Zak Burger, 22 Chris Smith, 23 Harold Vorster

Whiter than white.

Posted: **Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:42 pm**

Chilli wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:20 pm
OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:54 am Sharks by 50.
At least.

Sharks team look very strong. If that pack get Lood they will be difficult to beat.

Posted: **Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:54 pm**

Surprised Jannie's on the bench.

Posted: **Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:09 pm**

assfly wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:38 pm
Chilli wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:10 am Bulls

15 Kurt-Lee Arendse, 14 Madosh Tambwe, 13 David Kriel, 12 Cornal Hendricks, 11 Richard Kriel, 10 Morne Steyn, 9 Embrose Papier, 8 Elrigh Louw, 7 Arno Botha, 6 Marcell Coetzee, 5 Ruan Nortje, 4 Walt Steenkamp, 3 Robert Hunt, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Gerhard Steenkamp

Substitutes: 16 Johan Grobbelaar, 17 Simphiwe Matanzima, 18 Lizo Gqoboka, 19 Jacques du Plessis, 20 Sintu Manjezi, 21 Zak Burger, 22 Chris Smith, 23 Harold Vorster
Whiter than white.

Seems like some unions don't encourage transformation. Chase away their POC. Apparently the Bulls are about to announce an exciting new signing....can anyone guess. Seems like Trevor's transfer filled the piggy bank

Posted: **Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:20 pm**

assfly wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:38 pm
Chilli wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:10 am Bulls

15 Kurt-Lee Arendse, 14 Madosh Tambwe, 13 David Kriel, 12 Cornal Hendricks, 11 Richard Kriel, 10 Morne Steyn, 9 Embrose Papier, 8 Elrigh Louw, 7 Arno Botha, 6 Marcell Coetzee, 5 Ruan Nortje, 4 Walt Steenkamp, 3 Robert Hunt, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Gerhard Steenkamp

Substitutes: 16 Johan Grobbelaar, 17 Simphiwe Matanzima, 18 Lizo Gqoboka, 19 Jacques du Plessis, 20 Sintu Manjezi, 21 Zak Burger, 22 Chris Smith, 23 Harold Vorster
Whiter than white.

Lions more.

NPR

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