President Biden and US politics catchall

[Paddington Bear]

Biden wins with the US still as fractured as ever, and it is messy enough for Trump to cause an almighty stink in the most heavily armed nation on earth. Could hardly be going worse really.

[Uncle fester]

How are they able to complete states like Florida with the amount of postal voting that has taken place?

[Hugo]

Biden ahead in WI which is apparently significant - this thing could be over by lunchtime.

Yeah, Hillary lost WI in 2016 by the tiniest of margins, reputedly did not leave the black churches in Milwaukee and campaign around the state. It would definitely be a significant difference between Biden's performance and hers considering how he does much better with working class white males.

Addressed the issue of police brutality and gun violence at a black church in the spring but never returned to the state after winning the nomination assuming that it was in the bag: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -wisconsin

[Blake]

How are they able to complete states like Florida with the amount of postal voting that has taken place?

When the votes are allowed to get counted varies from state to state.
Some states started counting earlier but only announced the results on election day, while some states have stupid laws that only allows counting to BEGIN on election day.
This is stupid for multiple obvious reasons, but the biggest one is that mail-in votes take a lot longer to count as 2 envelopes need to be opened per vote and, signatures need to be varified for each ballot.
In-person votes are tabulated much faster depending on the voting machine/system used at the voting location.

It's kind of nuts that the system is so broken that both parties couldn't come to an agreement, pass some measures in anticipation of the expected problem, and allow early and mail-in votes to be counted ahead of time.

[sockwithaticket]

I don't have any preference for President
A dog poo sandwich or a cat poo one
But Trump winning would give me the most laughs (along with a few tears)

More facile 'both sides are the same' nonsense. If Trump's a dog shit sandwich, Biden's porridge. Not exciting, no one's real preference, but an order of magnitude better for you.

[Uncle fester]

How are they able to complete states like Florida with the amount of postal voting that has taken place?

When the votes are allowed to get counter varies from state to state.
Some states started counting earlier but only announced the results on election day, while some states have stupid laws that only allows counting to BEGIN on election day.
This is stupid for multiple obvious reasons, but the biggest one is that mail-in votes take a lot longer to count as 2 envelopes need to be opened per vote and, signatures need to be varied for each ballot.
In-person votes are tabulated much faster depending on the voting machine/system used at the voting location.

It's kind of nuts that the system is so broken that both parties couldn't come to an agreement, pass some measures in anticipation of the expected problem, and allow early and mail-in votes to be counted ahead of time.

Thanks. That makes sense.

[lilyw]

How are they able to complete states like Florida with the amount of postal voting that has taken place?

When the votes are allowed to get counter varies from state to state.
Some states started counting earlier but only announced the results on election day, while some states have stupid laws that only allows counting to BEGIN on election day.
This is stupid for multiple obvious reasons, but the biggest one is that mail-in votes take a lot longer to count as 2 envelopes need to be opened per vote and, signatures need to be varied for each ballot.
In-person votes are tabulated much faster depending on the voting machine/system used at the voting location.

It's kind of nuts that the system is so broken that both parties couldn't come to an agreement, pass some measures in anticipation of the expected problem, and allow early and mail-in votes to be counted ahead of time.

I disagree. All votes should be sealed until the close of polls - that way there can be no possibility of early voters influencing the outcome by changing the behaviour of later ones. In Ireland we don't even allow opinion polls to be published in the 24 hours before an election.

[Uncle fester]

I think he's getting at the lack of uniform approach rather than the early/late counting itself.

[Ted.]

People understand it alright, they just don't want to go there for obvious reasons.

Most people have morals and at least a smidgeon of decorum. Making it out to be some sort of voodoo science is, well, retarded.....

Sen and his ilk would have us believe tehre is some deep layer of philosophical meaning behind Trump's victory in 2016. I still call bollocks.

Not going to say it's the whole cocktail but the blend of deindustrialization, outsourcing, 'identity politics' and a sense of being taken for granted has evidently been a huge contributory factor. It's the same in the UK, Italy, France and other places where the main centre-left parties have collapsed recently; that coalition of voters who sued to underpin their base, working class people, have abandoned them.

Whether there's a deep philosophy around the movement is up for the debate but the circumstances contributing to it are pretty undeniable, in my view. However, result isn't over by a long way but I expect the demography to confirm that white working class men have pretty much abandoned the Dems and the likes of the so-called 'squad' are unlikely to be winning back those votes soon.

Whether the populists can deliver on that feeling of disenfranchisement any better than the centre left should also be a factor. Embracing those types of politicians is a more dangerous game that is possibly harder to step away from when it all turns to custard, especially where the more authoritarian politicians are concerned.

[Saint]

Wisconsin looks like it's definitely going for Biden, but will be tight. Leads by over 20,000

Trump's lead in Michigan is disappearing fast, and is probably all gone.

Pennsylvania is all going to be down to postal votes. If they continue to break for Biden as they have been, then he could squeek how there as well

[Longshanks]

I don't have any preference for President
A dog poo sandwich or a cat poo one
But Trump winning would give me the most laughs (along with a few tears)

More facile 'both sides are the same' nonsense. If Trump's a dog shit sandwich, Biden's porridge. Not exciting, no one's real preference, but an order of magnitude better for you.

How about Biden is a cat poo sandwich with ranch sauce? Looks a bit better but still basically shit.

[Blake]

In-person votes are tabulated much faster depending on the voting machine/system used at the voting location.

It's kind of nuts that the system is so broken that both parties couldn't come to an agreement, pass some measures in anticipation of the expected problem, and allow early and mail-in votes to be counted ahead of time.

I disagree. All votes should be sealed until the close of polls - that way there can be no possibility of early voters influencing the outcome by changing the behavior of later ones. In Ireland we don't even allow opinion polls to be published in the 24 hours before an election.

That's a valid point and I suppose it is the crux of the debate.
I think there is some merit in a middle ground where early votes may be counted but not announced until after polls have closed.
It's the only way that you are going to get results announced within the desired 24 hour period.

[Northern Lights]

In-person votes are tabulated much faster depending on the voting machine/system used at the voting location.

It's kind of nuts that the system is so broken that both parties couldn't come to an agreement, pass some measures in anticipation of the expected problem, and allow early and mail-in votes to be counted ahead of time.

I disagree. All votes should be sealed until the close of polls - that way there can be no possibility of early voters influencing the outcome by changing the behavior of later ones. In Ireland we don't even allow opinion polls to be published in the 24 hours before an election.

That's a valid point and I suppose it is the crux of the debate.
I think there is some merit in a middle ground where early votes may be counted but not announced until after polls have closed.
It's the only way that you are going to get results announced within the desired 24 hour period.

Or come up with a secure electronic system that is fit for 21st century voting and the result could be known minutes after the polls close.

[Hal Jordan]

This is America, the land where people still get paid with a physical cheque.

[Raggs]

Where are people checking their polling numbers?

I'm using the one google shows, but I think it can't be accurate. Since it's showing Arizona decided with only 84% reported, and Biden with a relatively narrow lead. Unless I'm reading something wrong.

[Saint]

Where are people checking their polling numbers?

I'm using the one google shows, but I think it can't be accurate. Since it's showing Arizona decided with only 84% reported, and Biden with a relatively narrow lead. Unless I'm reading something wrong.

I guess Google are taking the call from AP. Most outlets haven't called Arizona either way, but oddly enough FOX has also called it for Biden

[Raggs]

Where are people checking their polling numbers?

I'm using the one google shows, but I think it can't be accurate. Since it's showing Arizona decided with only 84% reported, and Biden with a relatively narrow lead. Unless I'm reading something wrong.

I guess Google are taking the call from AP. Most outlets haven't called Arizona either way, but oddly enough FOX has also called it for Biden

OK. Was looking at Texas as well, and whilst it's unlikely to fall Biden's way on the numbers given, it's still not actually decided from what I can tell.

[lilyw]

I disagree. All votes should be sealed until the close of polls - that way there can be no possibility of early voters influencing the outcome by changing the behavior of later ones. In Ireland we don't even allow opinion polls to be published in the 24 hours before an election.

That's a valid point and I suppose it is the crux of the debate.
I think there is some merit in a middle ground where early votes may be counted but not announced until after polls have closed.
It's the only way that you are going to get results announced within the desired 24 hour period.

Or come up with a secure electronic system that is fit for 21st century voting and the result could be known minutes after the polls close.

Never underestimate people's ability to be led into Luddite rejection. We went through all of this in Ireland about 15 years ago - could have reduced our counts from days to hours (& actually fixed the inherent uncertainty & unfairness built into our manual count) but was rejected following a campaign led by an absolute clown who got himself represented as an independent IT guru.

For any Irish posters - I actually know him both personally & professionally; he is anything but non-partisan politically (despite what he said in public) & he was effectively bounced out of his IT job because he was 20 years behind the times.

[tc27]

Where are people checking their polling numbers?

I'm using the one google shows, but I think it can't be accurate. Since it's showing Arizona decided with only 84% reported, and Biden with a relatively narrow lead. Unless I'm reading something wrong.

I think this is because they can see which counties have reported and extrapolate where the remaining votes are going.

[Raggs]

Biden now leads Michigan. If he gets what he's leading, he wins right?

[sturginho]

Where are people checking their polling numbers?

I'm using the one google shows, but I think it can't be accurate. Since it's showing Arizona decided with only 84% reported, and Biden with a relatively narrow lead. Unless I'm reading something wrong.

I guess Google are taking the call from AP. Most outlets haven't called Arizona either way, but oddly enough FOX has also called it for Biden

AP have called Arizona for Biden

[sturginho]

Biden now leads Michigan. If he gets what he's leading, he wins right?

By 3000 votes

That one's going to the wire!

Edit: to answer your question, yes, Nevada, Wisconsin and Michigan add up to 32 votes which would see him over the line

[Northern Lights]

That's a valid point and I suppose it is the crux of the debate.
I think there is some merit in a middle ground where early votes may be counted but not announced until after polls have closed.
It's the only way that you are going to get results announced within the desired 24 hour period.

Or come up with a secure electronic system that is fit for 21st century voting and the result could be known minutes after the polls close.

Never underestimate people's ability to be led into Luddite rejection. We went through all of this in Ireland about 15 years ago - could have reduced our counts from days to hours (& actually fixed the inherent uncertainty & unfairness built into our manual count) but was rejected following a campaign led by an absolute clown who got himself represented as an independent IT guru.

For any Irish posters - I actually know him both personally & professionally; he is anything but non-partisan politically (despite what he said in public) & he was effectively bounced out of his IT job because he was 20 years behind the times.

For me it is just staggering that we are all still beholden to this nonsense of putting an X in a box with a pencil, same over here, it is no way to be doing things in this day and age.

[Saint]

Biden now leads Michigan. If he gets what he's leading, he wins right?

Yeah. Arizona, Nevada, Wisconsin, and Michigan should get him to 270

[Saint]

Biden now leads Michigan. If he gets what he's leading, he wins right?

By 3000 votes

That one's going to the wire!

Edit: to answer your question, yes, Nevada, Wisconsin and Michigan add up to 32 votes which would see him over the line

He could end up winning Michigan by quite a lot. Lots of vote to come out of Wade County for instance.

[sturginho]

Biden now leads Michigan. If he gets what he's leading, he wins right?

By 3000 votes

That one's going to the wire!

Edit: to answer your question, yes, Nevada, Wisconsin and Michigan add up to 32 votes which would see him over the line

He could end up winning Michigan by quite a lot. Lots of vote to come out of Wade County for instance.

Do you mean Wayne county?

[Saint]

By 3000 votes

That one's going to the wire!

Edit: to answer your question, yes, Nevada, Wisconsin and Michigan add up to 32 votes which would see him over the line

He could end up winning Michigan by quite a lot. Lots of vote to come out of Wade County for instance.

Do you mean Wayne county?

Sorry, yes

[sturginho]

He could end up winning Michigan by quite a lot. Lots of vote to come out of Wade County for instance.

Do you mean Wayne county?

Sorry, yes

I noticed that Northampton County, NC voted Biden

[Insane_Homer]

[Saint]

PA starting to report this morning and Biden beginning to close that gap as well

[Woddy]

the disparity between calls on different sites is surprising though: on their respective live-feed pages, the Telegraph has given 14 more votes to Biden than the Beeb (and neither has moved for several hours). You'd expect it to be the other around, if anything.

[Saint]

the disparity between calls on different sites is surprising though: on their respective live-feed pages, the Telegraph has given 14 more votes to Biden than the Beeb (and neither has moved for several hours). You'd expect it to be the other around, if anything.

I think it's just reflective of who they're sourcing for the calls. Realistically it's unlikely that either is crunching the numbers themselves, they're grabbing numbers from a US source

[Insane_Homer]

[Lobby]

the disparity between calls on different sites is surprising though: on their respective live-feed pages, the Telegraph has given 14 more votes to Biden than the Beeb (and neither has moved for several hours). You'd expect it to be the other around, if anything.

I think it's just reflective of who they're sourcing for the calls. Realistically it's unlikely that either is crunching the numbers themselves, they're grabbing numbers from a US source

The BBC are being more cautious than other sites about calling states. The difference currently is Arizona, which has been called for Biden by AP. The BBC says this about Arizona “ Traditionally Republican but a key battleground this year. Biden is ahead with 83% of the vote counted and some US networks have projected victory for him already. We aren't able to do this yet”

[Glaston]

Its all been rather quiet on the Kanye front.

[Woddy]

the disparity between calls on different sites is surprising though: on their respective live-feed pages, the Telegraph has given 14 more votes to Biden than the Beeb (and neither has moved for several hours). You'd expect it to be the other around, if anything.

I think it's just reflective of who they're sourcing for the calls. Realistically it's unlikely that either is crunching the numbers themselves, they're grabbing numbers from a US source

The BBC are being more cautious than other sites about calling states. The difference currently is Arizona, which has been called for Biden by AP. The BBC says this about Arizona “ Traditionally Republican but a key battleground this year. Biden is ahead with 83% of the vote counted and some US networks have projected victory for him already. We aren't able to do this yet”

Cheers. Nail-biting stuff. Is this going to be Edgbaston or Old Trafford 2005?

[tc27]

Biden now ahead in enough states to win so its just a matter of time.

Trump has lost but will spend the last months of his presidency pretending the election was stolen:

[Saint]

Donny starting to go loco on Twitter

[Saint]

looks like Arizona finally about to be called. 99% of the vote counted, Biden leading by3.2%

[stemoc]

trump leading Penn with over 560k votes so chances of Biden winning there is zero..