A place where escape goats go to play
https://notplanetrugby.com/
Yeah, Hillary lost WI in 2016 by the tiniest of margins, reputedly did not leave the black churches in Milwaukee and campaign around the state. It would definitely be a significant difference between Biden's performance and hers considering how he does much better with working class white males.
When the votes are allowed to get counted varies from state to state.Uncle fester wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:07 am How are they able to complete states like Florida with the amount of postal voting that has taken place?
More facile 'both sides are the same' nonsense. If Trump's a dog shit sandwich, Biden's porridge. Not exciting, no one's real preference, but an order of magnitude better for you.Longshanks wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:51 am I don't have any preference for President
A dog poo sandwich or a cat poo one
But Trump winning would give me the most laughs (along with a few tears)
Thanks. That makes sense.Blake wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:25 amWhen the votes are allowed to get counter varies from state to state.Uncle fester wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:07 am How are they able to complete states like Florida with the amount of postal voting that has taken place?
Some states started counting earlier but only announced the results on election day, while some states have stupid laws that only allows counting to BEGIN on election day.
This is stupid for multiple obvious reasons, but the biggest one is that mail-in votes take a lot longer to count as 2 envelopes need to be opened per vote and, signatures need to be varied for each ballot.
In-person votes are tabulated much faster depending on the voting machine/system used at the voting location.
It's kind of nuts that the system is so broken that both parties couldn't come to an agreement, pass some measures in anticipation of the expected problem, and allow early and mail-in votes to be counted ahead of time.
I disagree. All votes should be sealed until the close of polls - that way there can be no possibility of early voters influencing the outcome by changing the behaviour of later ones. In Ireland we don't even allow opinion polls to be published in the 24 hours before an election.Blake wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:25 amWhen the votes are allowed to get counter varies from state to state.Uncle fester wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:07 am How are they able to complete states like Florida with the amount of postal voting that has taken place?
Some states started counting earlier but only announced the results on election day, while some states have stupid laws that only allows counting to BEGIN on election day.
This is stupid for multiple obvious reasons, but the biggest one is that mail-in votes take a lot longer to count as 2 envelopes need to be opened per vote and, signatures need to be varied for each ballot.
In-person votes are tabulated much faster depending on the voting machine/system used at the voting location.
It's kind of nuts that the system is so broken that both parties couldn't come to an agreement, pass some measures in anticipation of the expected problem, and allow early and mail-in votes to be counted ahead of time.
Whether the populists can deliver on that feeling of disenfranchisement any better than the centre left should also be a factor. Embracing those types of politicians is a more dangerous game that is possibly harder to step away from when it all turns to custard, especially where the more authoritarian politicians are concerned.Caley_Red wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 6:56 amNot going to say it's the whole cocktail but the blend of deindustrialization, outsourcing, 'identity politics' and a sense of being taken for granted has evidently been a huge contributory factor. It's the same in the UK, Italy, France and other places where the main centre-left parties have collapsed recently; that coalition of voters who sued to underpin their base, working class people, have abandoned them.
Whether there's a deep philosophy around the movement is up for the debate but the circumstances contributing to it are pretty undeniable, in my view. However, result isn't over by a long way but I expect the demography to confirm that white working class men have pretty much abandoned the Dems and the likes of the so-called 'squad' are unlikely to be winning back those votes soon.
How about Biden is a cat poo sandwich with ranch sauce? Looks a bit better but still basically shit.sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:29 amMore facile 'both sides are the same' nonsense. If Trump's a dog shit sandwich, Biden's porridge. Not exciting, no one's real preference, but an order of magnitude better for you.Longshanks wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:51 am I don't have any preference for President
A dog poo sandwich or a cat poo one
But Trump winning would give me the most laughs (along with a few tears)
That's a valid point and I suppose it is the crux of the debate.lilyw wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:48 amI disagree. All votes should be sealed until the close of polls - that way there can be no possibility of early voters influencing the outcome by changing the behavior of later ones. In Ireland we don't even allow opinion polls to be published in the 24 hours before an election.Blake wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:25 am In-person votes are tabulated much faster depending on the voting machine/system used at the voting location.
It's kind of nuts that the system is so broken that both parties couldn't come to an agreement, pass some measures in anticipation of the expected problem, and allow early and mail-in votes to be counted ahead of time.
Or come up with a secure electronic system that is fit for 21st century voting and the result could be known minutes after the polls close.Blake wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:39 pmThat's a valid point and I suppose it is the crux of the debate.lilyw wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:48 amI disagree. All votes should be sealed until the close of polls - that way there can be no possibility of early voters influencing the outcome by changing the behavior of later ones. In Ireland we don't even allow opinion polls to be published in the 24 hours before an election.Blake wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:25 am In-person votes are tabulated much faster depending on the voting machine/system used at the voting location.
It's kind of nuts that the system is so broken that both parties couldn't come to an agreement, pass some measures in anticipation of the expected problem, and allow early and mail-in votes to be counted ahead of time.
I think there is some merit in a middle ground where early votes may be counted but not announced until after polls have closed.
It's the only way that you are going to get results announced within the desired 24 hour period.
I guess Google are taking the call from AP. Most outlets haven't called Arizona either way, but oddly enough FOX has also called it for Biden
OK. Was looking at Texas as well, and whilst it's unlikely to fall Biden's way on the numbers given, it's still not actually decided from what I can tell.
Never underestimate people's ability to be led into Luddite rejection. We went through all of this in Ireland about 15 years ago - could have reduced our counts from days to hours (& actually fixed the inherent uncertainty & unfairness built into our manual count) but was rejected following a campaign led by an absolute clown who got himself represented as an independent IT guru.Northern Lights wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:23 pmOr come up with a secure electronic system that is fit for 21st century voting and the result could be known minutes after the polls close.Blake wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:39 pmThat's a valid point and I suppose it is the crux of the debate.lilyw wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:48 am
I disagree. All votes should be sealed until the close of polls - that way there can be no possibility of early voters influencing the outcome by changing the behavior of later ones. In Ireland we don't even allow opinion polls to be published in the 24 hours before an election.
I think there is some merit in a middle ground where early votes may be counted but not announced until after polls have closed.
It's the only way that you are going to get results announced within the desired 24 hour period.
I think this is because they can see which counties have reported and extrapolate where the remaining votes are going.
For me it is just staggering that we are all still beholden to this nonsense of putting an X in a box with a pencil, same over here, it is no way to be doing things in this day and age.lilyw wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:58 pmNever underestimate people's ability to be led into Luddite rejection. We went through all of this in Ireland about 15 years ago - could have reduced our counts from days to hours (& actually fixed the inherent uncertainty & unfairness built into our manual count) but was rejected following a campaign led by an absolute clown who got himself represented as an independent IT guru.Northern Lights wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:23 pmOr come up with a secure electronic system that is fit for 21st century voting and the result could be known minutes after the polls close.Blake wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:39 pm
That's a valid point and I suppose it is the crux of the debate.
I think there is some merit in a middle ground where early votes may be counted but not announced until after polls have closed.
It's the only way that you are going to get results announced within the desired 24 hour period.
For any Irish posters - I actually know him both personally & professionally; he is anything but non-partisan politically (despite what he said in public) & he was effectively bounced out of his IT job because he was 20 years behind the times.
He could end up winning Michigan by quite a lot. Lots of vote to come out of Wade County for instance.
Do you mean Wayne county?Saint wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:10 pmHe could end up winning Michigan by quite a lot. Lots of vote to come out of Wade County for instance.
I noticed that Northampton County, NC voted Biden
I think it's just reflective of who they're sourcing for the calls. Realistically it's unlikely that either is crunching the numbers themselves, they're grabbing numbers from a US sourceWoddy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:37 pm the disparity between calls on different sites is surprising though: on their respective live-feed pages, the Telegraph has given 14 more votes to Biden than the Beeb (and neither has moved for several hours). You'd expect it to be the other around, if anything.
The BBC are being more cautious than other sites about calling states. The difference currently is Arizona, which has been called for Biden by AP. The BBC says this about Arizona “ Traditionally Republican but a key battleground this year. Biden is ahead with 83% of the vote counted and some US networks have projected victory for him already. We aren't able to do this yet”Saint wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:41 pmI think it's just reflective of who they're sourcing for the calls. Realistically it's unlikely that either is crunching the numbers themselves, they're grabbing numbers from a US sourceWoddy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:37 pm the disparity between calls on different sites is surprising though: on their respective live-feed pages, the Telegraph has given 14 more votes to Biden than the Beeb (and neither has moved for several hours). You'd expect it to be the other around, if anything.
Cheers. Nail-biting stuff. Is this going to be Edgbaston or Old Trafford 2005?Lobby wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:52 pmThe BBC are being more cautious than other sites about calling states. The difference currently is Arizona, which has been called for Biden by AP. The BBC says this about Arizona “ Traditionally Republican but a key battleground this year. Biden is ahead with 83% of the vote counted and some US networks have projected victory for him already. We aren't able to do this yet”Saint wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:41 pmI think it's just reflective of who they're sourcing for the calls. Realistically it's unlikely that either is crunching the numbers themselves, they're grabbing numbers from a US sourceWoddy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:37 pm the disparity between calls on different sites is surprising though: on their respective live-feed pages, the Telegraph has given 14 more votes to Biden than the Beeb (and neither has moved for several hours). You'd expect it to be the other around, if anything.
