The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Caley_Red]

Partly exacerbated by Edinburgh's 'classic' (friendly euphemism) game plan which it looks like the competition have worked out.

Is it the backs which are notably stale therefore causing a lack of variety? Haven't watched many pro games due to time diff so have no handle on the games other than highlights and domestic newspaper coverage?

[I like neeps]

Partly exacerbated by Edinburgh's 'classic' (friendly euphemism) game plan which it looks like the competition have worked out.

Don't think they have, it was never complicated what Edinburgh did. But with their best forwards mostly injured or with Scotland they couldn't dominate up front. And then behind the scrum they didn't have their only attacking threats or Scott who was rapier like last season.

[KingBlairhorn]

Partly exacerbated by Edinburgh's 'classic' (friendly euphemism) game plan which it looks like the competition have worked out.

Don't think they have, it was never complicated what Edinburgh did. But with their best forwards mostly injured or with Scotland they couldn't dominate up front. And then behind the scrum they didn't have their only attacking threats or Scott who was rapier like last season.

I think this is definitely a part of it. Edinburgh's success last season was two fold, firstly based on forward dominance and secondly based on multiple broken field runner threats across the pitch. Mata has largely been injured and, frankly, hasn't looked too threatening this season. Scott who provided the spark in midfield has gone and Bennett hasn't hit the same heights. Duhan and Darcy have both been quiet, largely because they have been starved of ball.

Without the threat of individual moments of brilliance, defences simply need to be disciplined and Edinburgh have no variance in their game to break them down. VdW provides a steady influence from 10, but he doesn't have the ability to pick a late flat pass to put someone through a gap, or to pick a cute chip over a rush defence. All the attacking moves happen in front of the opposing defence and they simply need to keep their shape and their discipline.

[clydecloggie]

Partly exacerbated by Edinburgh's 'classic' (friendly euphemism) game plan which it looks like the competition have worked out.

Don't think they have, it was never complicated what Edinburgh did. But with their best forwards mostly injured or with Scotland they couldn't dominate up front. And then behind the scrum they didn't have their only attacking threats or Scott who was rapier like last season.

Well, yes, that's pretty much what I meant. It's pretty basic rugby that they play, which works if your forwards are better than their forwards and the backs can create something out of nothing through sheer speed and/or agility.

In the absence of both, you probably need a bit more invention in terms of manipulating the point of contact, dynamism, running lines and overlap creation.

[westport]

A total of 20 Glasgow Warriors players from the match-day 23 in Exeter last Sunday are now self-isolating after several Exeter Chiefs players and staff tested positive for COVID-19.

Game against Lyon is off.

[KingBlairhorn]

A total of 20 Glasgow Warriors players from the match-day 23 in Exeter last Sunday are now self-isolating after several Exeter Chiefs players and staff tested positive for COVID-19.

Game against Lyon is off.

Probably the best thing that could have happened. A chance to regroup and recover from the beasting last week.

Edit: just seen that the likely outcome here is that Glasgow have to forfeit the Lyon game. Surely that cannot be just - Exeter have caused the issue, it seems unfair to penalise Glasgow for it.

Also, Glasgow now are unable to train prior to the Edinburgh game, that could make things interesting

[Jock42]

Weegies have allegedly upped their offer for Healey.

[Jock42]

A total of 20 Glasgow Warriors players from the match-day 23 in Exeter last Sunday are now self-isolating after several Exeter Chiefs players and staff tested positive for COVID-19.

Game against Lyon is off.

Probably the best thing that could have happened. A chance to regroup and recover from the beasting last week.

Edit: just seen that the likely outcome here is that Glasgow have to forfeit the Lyon game. Surely that cannot be just - Exeter have caused the issue, it seems unfair to penalise Glasgow for it.

Also, Glasgow now are unable to train prior to the Edinburgh game, that could make things interesting

Oh dear, how sad, nevermind.

[KingBlairhorn]

A total of 20 Glasgow Warriors players from the match-day 23 in Exeter last Sunday are now self-isolating after several Exeter Chiefs players and staff tested positive for COVID-19.

Game against Lyon is off.

Probably the best thing that could have happened. A chance to regroup and recover from the beasting last week.

Edit: just seen that the likely outcome here is that Glasgow have to forfeit the Lyon game. Surely that cannot be just - Exeter have caused the issue, it seems unfair to penalise Glasgow for it.

Also, Glasgow now are unable to train prior to the Edinburgh game, that could make things interesting

Oh dear, how sad, nevermind.

I don't know what I'm looking forward to more. The actual game, or the seethe on the Glasgow message board if they get pumped!

[Big D]

Weegies have allegedly upped their offer for Healey.

They sort of have to now really. They let Hastings walk or couldn't match his Gloucs offer. For Healy it could come down to cash v international ambition.

[Jock42]

Weegies have allegedly upped their offer for Healey.

They sort of have to now really. They let Hastings walk or couldn't match his Gloucs offer. For Healy it could come down to cash v international ambition.

Is he SQ?

[robmatic]

Weegies have allegedly upped their offer for Healey.

They sort of have to now really. They let Hastings walk or couldn't match his Gloucs offer. For Healy it could come down to cash v international ambition.

I thought the Healey thing was agent inspired nonsense but it seems to have legs.

Glasgow are apparently trying to find two fly halfs and a fullback for next season.

[I like neeps]

Weegies have allegedly upped their offer for Healey.

They sort of have to now really. They let Hastings walk or couldn't match his Gloucs offer. For Healy it could come down to cash v international ambition.

Is he SQ?

Yes. So it comes down to cash + guarantees caps Vs boyhood club and potential Ireland caps and less cash at least now.

[KingBlairhorn]

They sort of have to now really. They let Hastings walk or couldn't match his Gloucs offer. For Healy it could come down to cash v international ambition.

Is he SQ?

Yes. So it comes down to cash + guarantees caps Vs boyhood club and potential Ireland caps and less cash at least now.

Apparently his mother is Scottish, so perhaps he feels a genuine affinity. My wife is Irish, I'm sure my daughter will feel an affinity to Ireland growing up, even if she would naturally fall into Scottish systems should she be any good at sport.

[Begbie]

I've never seen the lad play, is he a creative sort or a steady boot sort?

[KingBlairhorn]

I've never seen the lad play, is he a creative sort or a steady boot sort?

He's a 10 in the Irish fashion. Good defence, huge boot, seems to have good game control, not hugely creative ala Russell but runs his set moves very well. Just a very very solid player at Pro14 level. Given he is 21 he will likely be the same at international level with a little more experience. He would, from what little I have seen, be an excellent pickup for both Glasgow and Scotland.

[Jock42]

I've never seen the lad play, is he a creative sort or a steady boot sort?

Only game I can recall is the weegie game. Seemed decent and def one to watch. Kingblair sums him up more eloquently than me

[Begbie]

I've never seen the lad play, is he a creative sort or a steady boot sort?

He's a 10 in the Irish fashion. Good defence, huge boot, seems to have good game control, not hugely creative ala Russell but runs his set moves very well. Just a very very solid player at Pro14 level. Given he is 21 he will likely be the same at international level with a little more experience. He would, from what little I have seen, be an excellent pickup for both Glasgow and Scotland.

Cheers

[Jock42]

1872 leg 1 postponed

[Slick]

Meant to post this the other day from Alasdair Reid in The Times

When the Scottish Rugby Union held its virtual annual meeting recently it was opened by Mark Dodson, the chief executive, who marked his own homework in characteristically slick style. All very impressive but, given the wider context, he could scarcely have looked more like Emperor Nero had he appeared on screen clutching a fiddle and a box of Swan Vestas.

The union’s annual report struck a similar tone of self-congratulation. Well, you have to come up with some sort of justification for those six-figure bonuses, don’t you? Aside from the pesky problem of a global pandemic, everything in the Murrayfield garden apparently smells of roses. At least it does to those on the payroll.

Reluctant as I am to prick this bubble of self-satisfaction, it grieves me to have to point out that not everyone shares this rose-tinted view of the state of the game in Scotland. Glasgow fans, for example, would surely take issue with the report’s claim that their club’s “proud tradition of developing and nurturing young Scottish talent shone like a beacon”.
In the wake of the Warriors’ 42-0 thrashing by Exeter Chiefs on Sunday, the only thing that shone like a beacon was that young Scottish talent isn’t exactly obvious right now.

That performance will have dynamited supporters’ hopes that Glasgow’s calamitous league season could be kick-started by a decent run in Europe. The Warriors were swatted aside with embarrassing ease in the first half and, when they looked to the bench in the second, all they could find there was a collection of individuals who really had no right to be operating at this level.

Things were little better at Edinburgh’s clash with La Rochelle the previous evening. If the result, a 13-8 win for the French side, looks less embarrassing than Glasgow’s, their performance on the Murrayfield turf was scarcely any better than that of their friends in the west. So no beacons there either.

Instead, just chickens coming home to roost. For the most depressing element of Scottish rugby’s gruesome weekend was that the results were so predictable. If you make a dog’s breakfast of development, if you squander resources on overseas vanity projects, if you design a youth and schools programme around the selfish needs of a handful of fee-paying establishments and if you stuff your teams with southern hemisphere journeymen then you will get what you deserve. Humiliation. Again and again and again.

In Glasgow’s case there were two large and very obvious doses of salt added to their wounds as Stuart Hogg and Jonny Gray both collected tries for Exeter against their former club. That pattern might persuade you that the Devon side have risen to the top of England and Europe on the strength of their chequebook, but the more heartening reality — as chronicled in the superb Exe Men, by Rob Kitson — is that the Chiefs have grown and evolved with a squad based firmly on local talent and just a sprinkling of star names.

In other words, they took the long view, a perspective that the SRU has lost in its transition from being stewards of a sport to being money-grabbing event promoters. “Everything recently has been short-term,” Colin Gregor, the former Glasgow and Scotland sevens scrum half, said in his post-match comments on the BBC. “It’s just been about Scotland and Scotland doing well.”

The collapse of Glasgow over the past few years has been galling to watch. Their 2015 Guinness Pro12 (as it was then) title triumph is a fast-receding memory, created by a golden generation of players, most of whom have now left. You could argue that financial reality was always likely to draw Hogg, Gray and Finn Russell to pastures new — not that financial reality seems to be a feature of the SRU’s executive bonus scheme — but the failure to fill the gaps they left has been catastrophic for the Scotstoun side.

You’ll hear many a fine word about the union’s academy programme, but its strike rate in terms of turning out oven-ready professional players is dismal. In any case, you suspect that the odd player who has come through to establish himself would have done so on raw talent alone and didn’t particularly need a finishing school along the way. Most players with any potential would benefit far more from decent game time against experienced opponents than sitting in their academy hothouse watching nutrition videos.

But don’t just take my word for it. The actions of Danny Wilson and Richard Cockerill, head coaches of Glasgow and Edinburgh respectively, have made it clear they would far rather plunder the international transfer market than rely on what is meant to be their primary feeder stream of players.

“You would suggest that the hierarchy at the SRU don’t believe in the system,” Peter Wright, the former Scotland prop, said on that same BBC programme.

Meanwhile, far too many good players, some potentially great players, have withered on the vine. Adam Ashe, a No 8 who boasted the combination of skill and power that Scotland desperately need in that position, was squeezed out at Glasgow and has recently agreed to join a club in Los Angeles. Matt Smith, a superb flanker with clear Test potential, was treated terribly at Glasgow and has now given up the game completely. The testimonies and tragically short careers of those two players provide a brutal indictment of the SRU’s management of the teams they own.

Small wonder that others are queuing up to find escape routes. It was confirmed recently that Adam Hastings will move to Gloucester at the end of the season, while Duhan van der Merwe looks to be heading south as well. There will be more. Jamie Ritchie and Hamish Watson are both out of contract at the end of this season and both will surely be prime targets for clubs in England and France.

And could you blame them if they left? Quite aside from any questions of the money they might be offered, it is the mark of a decent player that he might actually want to win something. As things stand, there is precious little chance of that happening while they remain in Scotland. How many Glasgow players watched Hogg and Gray enjoying the fruits of their moves to England at Sandy Park on Sunday and made a mental note to give their own agents a ring?

Five years ago, when Glasgow won the Pro12, Edinburgh reached the Challenge Cup final and Scotland came achingly close to a place in the World Cup semi-finals, it was easy to feel positive about the state of the nation’s game. But not anymore. This really is the bleakest midwinter for Scottish rugby, and no amount of delusional spin from Murrayfield can cover up that cold, hard truth.

[I like neeps]

Adam Ashe was squeezed out of Glasgow because he was injured all the time and didn't play well when he was fit. And using Matt Smith as a stick to hit the SRU with is very poor form. Not that Reid places the mental health considerations of players above his all encompassing agenda.

[Slick]

Adam Ashe was squeezed out of Glasgow because he was injured all the time and didn't play well when he was fit. And using Matt Smith as a stick to hit the SRU with is very poor form. Not that Reid places the mental health considerations of players above his all encompassing agenda.

What was the story with Matt Smith?

[I like neeps]

Adam Ashe was squeezed out of Glasgow because he was injured all the time and didn't play well when he was fit. And using Matt Smith as a stick to hit the SRU with is very poor form. Not that Reid places the mental health considerations of players above his all encompassing agenda.

What was the story with Matt Smith?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theoff ... of-23/amp/

Pretty hard to read. Had some pretty serious mental health difficulties. But the help Glasgow and the SRU made available he didn't access.

[Jock42]

Don't agree with his assessment of getting a losing BP against the top14 leaders is embarrassing either.

[Slick]

Adam Ashe was squeezed out of Glasgow because he was injured all the time and didn't play well when he was fit. And using Matt Smith as a stick to hit the SRU with is very poor form. Not that Reid places the mental health considerations of players above his all encompassing agenda.

What was the story with Matt Smith?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theoff ... of-23/amp/

Pretty hard to read. Had some pretty serious mental health difficulties. But the help Glasgow and the SRU made available he didn't access.

Cheers, didn’t know anything about this, sad story

[KingBlairhorn]

Those opening paragraphs about Dodson’s self-congratulation at the AGM are stupid. It’s almost like Scotland’s sports journalists have no idea what they are talking about when they stray into discussing the boardroom. I have yet to meet a CEO who doesn’t blow his own trumpet vociferously when reporting on his own performance and that of his company to shareholders, I mean...obviously. Dodson is literally no different to any other executive. If you are going to use a stick to beat the man, at least make it a good one.

[Caley_Red]

Good result for Edinburgh, a morale booster ahead of xmas period.

[KingBlairhorn]

Good result for Edinburgh, a morale booster ahead of xmas period.

The last 3 or 4 minutes was excellent. More than 30 phases of pick and go and never looked like losing possession. Very professional. Kind of like Munster of old, just utterly relentless.

[Jock42]

Duty rumour is that meatball might be heading back to the weegies.

[Caley_Red]

Duty rumour is that meatball might be heading back to the weegies.

Wouldn't characterize that signing with keeping one eye on the future. . .

[Jock42]

Duty rumour is that meatball might be heading back to the weegies.

Wouldn't characterize that signing with keeping one eye on the future. . .

No but I'd happily have him back at Embra.

[Caley_Red]

Duty rumour is that meatball might be heading back to the weegies.

Wouldn't characterize that signing with keeping one eye on the future. . .

No but I'd happily have him back at Embra.

Better than Jaco, I agree

[Caley_Red]

Duty rumour is that meatball might be heading back to the weegies.

Wouldn't characterize that signing with keeping one eye on the future. . .

No but I'd happily have him back at Embra.

Better than Jaco, I agree

[robmatic]

Duty rumour is that meatball might be heading back to the weegies.

They are really going heavy with the recruiting former players strategy. What's happened to their scouting?

Weir kind of makes sense as they desperately need a fly half for next season but it's not a very positive trend.

[KingBlairhorn]

Duty rumour is that meatball might be heading back to the weegies.

They are really going heavy with the recruiting former players strategy. What's happened to their scouting?

Weir kind of makes sense as they desperately need a fly half for next season but it's not a very positive trend.

It depends on the strategy I suppose. Weir as one of two FHs, one Weir and one an up and comer then I think that’s a great bit of business. On the other hand, if they are bringing him in as first choice that’s a huge backward step.

In other news, Bhatti has signed for bath. If he can get some decent game time that’s a good move for him.

[Biffer]

I'm expecting Edinburgh to lose Jamie Ritchie this year. He'll be off to England or France on money we can't match I think. It'll be a shame to lose him but it lets Crosbie get a lot more game time and opens possibilities for Darge and Boyle to step into the place Crosbie has been the last couple of years.

[KingBlairhorn]

I'm expecting Edinburgh to lose Jamie Ritchie this year. He'll be off to England or France on money we can't match I think. It'll be a shame to lose him but it lets Crosbie get a lot more game time and opens possibilities for Darge and Boyle to step into the place Crosbie has been the last couple of years.

Richie, Watson and Mata all out of contract. If they all go that is a significant blow. I’d hope Richie hangs on for a few more years.

[Biffer]

I'm expecting Edinburgh to lose Jamie Ritchie this year. He'll be off to England or France on money we can't match I think. It'll be a shame to lose him but it lets Crosbie get a lot more game time and opens possibilities for Darge and Boyle to step into the place Crosbie has been the last couple of years.

Richie, Watson and Mata all out of contract. If they all go that is a significant blow. I’d hope Richie hangs on for a few more years.

I think he's the most likely to get the big contract. Younger player so better investment.

[robmatic]

I'm expecting Edinburgh to lose Jamie Ritchie this year. He'll be off to England or France on money we can't match I think. It'll be a shame to lose him but it lets Crosbie get a lot more game time and opens possibilities for Darge and Boyle to step into the place Crosbie has been the last couple of years.

Richie, Watson and Mata all out of contract. If they all go that is a significant blow. I’d hope Richie hangs on for a few more years.

I think he's the most likely to get the big contract. Younger player so better investment.

Mata would be a point of difference for one of the big English or French clubs though. And Edinburgh seem to have a ready-made replacement for him on the books already with Kunavula.

[Biffer]

Richie, Watson and Mata all out of contract. If they all go that is a significant blow. I’d hope Richie hangs on for a few more years.

I think he's the most likely to get the big contract. Younger player so better investment.

Mata would be a point of difference for one of the big English or French clubs though. And Edinburgh seem to have a ready-made replacement for him on the books already with Kunavula.

Yeah, I'm worried about all of them. If we were to only lose Duhan and one of that back row trio, I'd be delighted.