All fun and games, but correct me if I’m wrong, immigrants get old too? So we end up back at square one. This doesn’t work
It is about the composition of the population as a whole and the balance between the young, the working age and the old. Currently the UK is seeing those born in the post war and early 60's baby booms coming to retirement age. Couple this with the birth rate in UK has been at historically low rates since 2000 it means we have high retiral rates and low rates of school leavers entering the workforce. We need to ensure we have the ratio of those in workforce age v young/old in the range where the UK is economically viable. One way of looking at it is the number of working age people v number of retired people - the closer that ratio gets to 1:1 then the more shit we are all in! Others use the Dependency ratio which is number of people less than 14 and greater than 65 v those between 15 and 64 (numbers can vary depending on assumptions about school leaving age and retiral age).
At times economies may decide to supplement or actively reduce their working age populations ie immigration, to ensure they have a ratio that is sustainable. My argument would be the UK needs immigration, or preferably FoM, in order to have a sustainable ratio.
How does a massive increase in student visas and dependents of students being given visas help our dependency ratios?
I’m not arguing against immigration, at manageable levels and with some discerning in the process of issuing visas it is a massive boon. The scale we are seeing is going to collapse large parts of our society in on itself if it carries on much longer
Majority of these student visas are for a limited time period and the majority go home afterwards. Those that remain will need to reapply for a visa and meet the requirements the UK lays out. However the income they bring in helps fund our university sector as they pay full whack for fees, particularly as the numbers of home students continues to fall due to the birth rate drop I mentioned earlier. They also tend to come from better off backgrounds as coming to the UK to study aint cheap so they will bring additional revenue for the UK. For example many of the UK medical undergraduate programmes are dependent upon overseas students - about 7.5% of all students - and the income they bring in - roughly £40-50k per academic year. We also bring across many very capable students to do higher degrees and/or research and we are dependent upon many of these to support the research work that goes on across the university sector. The UK also has the opportunity to offer the brightest students jobs post study and again going back to medical students, we encourage them to enter our post graduate medical programmes and work as a junior doctor here in the UK, and we desperately;y need them to continue working as consultants/GPs in the future.
As you would expect these students are young, as are their dependents if they have any, and will contribute to the workforce. Many might come across to study post graduate level and may already have a family. For example, medicine again, we recruit many doctors to come across to enter our post graduate training programmes or for a year or two study as part of their medical training. They can be late 20/early 30s and will obviously want to bring their families with them. They tend to be the brightest and the best but they need to have appropriate visas for themselves and their dependents.
Let's not forget that this is also a two way process - both my kids went abroad to study for a year and both had to apply for visas to do so. Both had a fantastic time, learnt a lot, spent all their money in the country, made great lifetime friends there and from other countries and both came home and are now working hard in the UK. Looking at student visas as an immigration problem is very short sighted and cutting the UK off from educational networks across the world - as we have done with Erasmus post Brexit - is just a disaster.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:35 am
by dpedin
tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 5:44 pm
Cleverly now denying he called Stockton-on-Tees a "shithole" but was calling the MP a "... is a shit MP". Well that's much better then
Either way he has now admitted lying to the house by denying he swore in the first place? Surely some punishment is forthcoming!
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:41 am
by Sandstorm
dpedin wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:34 am
Let's not forget that this is also a two way process - both my kids went abroad to study for a year and both had to apply for visas to do so. Both had a fantastic time, learnt a lot, spent all their money in the country, made great lifetime friends there and from other countries and both came home and are now working hard in the UK. Looking at student visas as an immigration problem is very short sighted and cutting the UK off from educational networks across the world - as we have done with Erasmus post Brexit - is just a disaster.
Excellent point
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:47 am
by David in Gwent
The Middle Class
"I don't care about the working class of the country having whatever foisted on them, I want my kids to go and live in the South of France for a year, fuck those kids on estates"
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:48 am
by David in Gwent
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 11:06 am
by Slick
David in Gwent wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:47 am
The Middle Class
"I don't care about the working class of the country having whatever foisted on them, I want my kids to go and live in the South of France for a year, fuck those kids on estates"
This is stupid even for a Working Class Hero like you.
dpedin wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:34 am
Let's not forget that this is also a two way process - both my kids went abroad to study for a year and both had to apply for visas to do so. Both had a fantastic time, learnt a lot, spent all their money in the country, made great lifetime friends there and from other countries and both came home and are now working hard in the UK. Looking at student visas as an immigration problem is very short sighted and cutting the UK off from educational networks across the world - as we have done with Erasmus post Brexit - is just a disaster.
Excellent point
Its also worth remembering that Overseas Students massively subsidise the UK Higher Education system as the money provided by UK students fees and Government funding falls quite a way short of actually providing the full cost of educating students at University. Its only those £30+k a year fees from foreign students that is keeping most UK universities afloat.
dpedin wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:34 am
Let's not forget that this is also a two way process - both my kids went abroad to study for a year and both had to apply for visas to do so. Both had a fantastic time, learnt a lot, spent all their money in the country, made great lifetime friends there and from other countries and both came home and are now working hard in the UK. Looking at student visas as an immigration problem is very short sighted and cutting the UK off from educational networks across the world - as we have done with Erasmus post Brexit - is just a disaster.
Excellent point
Its also worth remembering that Overseas Students massively subsidise the UK Higher Education system as the money provided by UK students fees and Government funding falls quite a way short of actually providing the full cost of educating students at University. Its only those £30+k a year fees from foreign students that is keeping most UK universities afloat.
I was just about to make that point.
However the increased numbers of students isn't being matched by an increase in the infrastructure - the number of staff or teaching facilities etc.
The Uni my wife works at is building a whole load of student accommodation, but even then they are struggling, private rental prices here are crazy.
Another more recent thing happening here is that as the interest rates go up, HMO rentals are coming on the market, previously they were like hen's teeth, now landlords are getting out of the market, but they are not really selling.
It is about the composition of the population as a whole and the balance between the young, the working age and the old. Currently the UK is seeing those born in the post war and early 60's baby booms coming to retirement age. Couple this with the birth rate in UK has been at historically low rates since 2000 it means we have high retiral rates and low rates of school leavers entering the workforce. We need to ensure we have the ratio of those in workforce age v young/old in the range where the UK is economically viable. One way of looking at it is the number of working age people v number of retired people - the closer that ratio gets to 1:1 then the more shit we are all in! Others use the Dependency ratio which is number of people less than 14 and greater than 65 v those between 15 and 64 (numbers can vary depending on assumptions about school leaving age and retiral age).
At times economies may decide to supplement or actively reduce their working age populations ie immigration, to ensure they have a ratio that is sustainable. My argument would be the UK needs immigration, or preferably FoM, in order to have a sustainable ratio.
How does a massive increase in student visas and dependents of students being given visas help our dependency ratios?
I’m not arguing against immigration, at manageable levels and with some discerning in the process of issuing visas it is a massive boon. The scale we are seeing is going to collapse large parts of our society in on itself if it carries on much longer
Majority of these student visas are for a limited time period and the majority go home afterwards. Those that remain will need to reapply for a visa and meet the requirements the UK lays out. However the income they bring in helps fund our university sector as they pay full whack for fees, particularly as the numbers of home students continues to fall due to the birth rate drop I mentioned earlier. They also tend to come from better off backgrounds as coming to the UK to study aint cheap so they will bring additional revenue for the UK. For example many of the UK medical undergraduate programmes are dependent upon overseas students - about 7.5% of all students - and the income they bring in - roughly £40-50k per academic year. We also bring across many very capable students to do higher degrees and/or research and we are dependent upon many of these to support the research work that goes on across the university sector. The UK also has the opportunity to offer the brightest students jobs post study and again going back to medical students, we encourage them to enter our post graduate medical programmes and work as a junior doctor here in the UK, and we desperately;y need them to continue working as consultants/GPs in the future.
As you would expect these students are young, as are their dependents if they have any, and will contribute to the workforce. Many might come across to study post graduate level and may already have a family. For example, medicine again, we recruit many doctors to come across to enter our post graduate training programmes or for a year or two study as part of their medical training. They can be late 20/early 30s and will obviously want to bring their families with them. They tend to be the brightest and the best but they need to have appropriate visas for themselves and their dependents.
Let's not forget that this is also a two way process - both my kids went abroad to study for a year and both had to apply for visas to do so. Both had a fantastic time, learnt a lot, spent all their money in the country, made great lifetime friends there and from other countries and both came home and are now working hard in the UK. Looking at student visas as an immigration problem is very short sighted and cutting the UK off from educational networks across the world - as we have done with Erasmus post Brexit - is just a disaster.
These are *net* figures, so account for students going home at the end of their studies. The number of student dependent visas given out has expanded tenfold since 2019, maybe more. Almost the whole expansion is to Nigerians, the expansion is not correlated to an overall uptick in 30 something post-grads. Again, overseas students at a large chunk of our unis are nothing more than a visa scam.
Its also worth remembering that Overseas Students massively subsidise the UK Higher Education system as the money provided by UK students fees and Government funding falls quite a way short of actually providing the full cost of educating students at University. Its only those £30+k a year fees from foreign students that is keeping most UK universities afloat.
I was just about to make that point.
However the increased numbers of students isn't being matched by an increase in the infrastructure - the number of staff or teaching facilities etc.
The Uni my wife works at is building a whole load of student accommodation, but even then they are struggling, private rental prices here are crazy.
Another more recent thing happening here is that as the interest rates go up, HMO rentals are coming on the market, previously they were like hen's teeth, now landlords are getting out of the market, but they are not really selling.
Universities need to generate a significant surplus to be able to invest in new buildings and equipment, and most of them aren't doing that, even with the additional income from overseas students.
New student accommodation is a slightly different matter as they can usually get loans or other private investment for this as accommodation provides a guaranteed income and return on investment.
Without overseas student income, most of the sector would go bust.
Its also worth remembering that Overseas Students massively subsidise the UK Higher Education system as the money provided by UK students fees and Government funding falls quite a way short of actually providing the full cost of educating students at University. Its only those £30+k a year fees from foreign students that is keeping most UK universities afloat.
I was just about to make that point.
However the increased numbers of students isn't being matched by an increase in the infrastructure - the number of staff or teaching facilities etc.
The Uni my wife works at is building a whole load of student accommodation, but even then they are struggling, private rental prices here are crazy.
Another more recent thing happening here is that as the interest rates go up, HMO rentals are coming on the market, previously they were like hen's teeth, now landlords are getting out of the market, but they are not really selling.
Universities need to generate a significant surplus to be able to invest in new buildings and equipment, and most of them aren't doing that, even with the additional income from overseas students.
New student accommodation is a slightly different matter as they can usually get loans or other private investment for this as accommodation provides a guaranteed income and return on investment.
Without overseas student income, most of the sector would go bust.
I'm reasonably involved with this issue in Scotland, particularly on the African students side. The Uni's are absolutely shitting themselves about the new visa restrictions and are already seeing lots of Africans deciding to go to Canada/States/Germany instead of here, it's already having a massive impact.
I have a lot of sympathy, but also a feeling that they really do milk these overseas students as cash cows and have become very lazy and blasé in terms of what they are actually offering on top of the teaching to compete with other markets.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 11:33 am
by Sandstorm
Lobby wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 11:20 am
Universities need to generate a significant surplus to be able to invest in new buildings and equipment, and most of them aren't doing that, even with the additional income from overseas students.
New student accommodation is a slightly different matter as they can usually get loans or other private investment for this as accommodation provides a guaranteed income and return on investment.
Without overseas student income, most of the sector would go bust.
I assume Govt funding has dropped significantly since UK students has to pay (a proportion) for their fees each year. Is this where the shortfall is occurring and why they are looking overseas for the bigger spenders?
Lobby wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 11:20 am
Universities need to generate a significant surplus to be able to invest in new buildings and equipment, and most of them aren't doing that, even with the additional income from overseas students.
New student accommodation is a slightly different matter as they can usually get loans or other private investment for this as accommodation provides a guaranteed income and return on investment.
Without overseas student income, most of the sector would go bust.
I assume Govt funding has dropped significantly since UK students has to pay (a proportion) for their fees each year. Is this where the shortfall is occurring and why they are looking overseas for the bigger spenders?
There hasn't been an increase in fees since 2010, nor should there be, £9K per year plus loans is more than enough debt and there wasn't supposed to be interest on it either, but of course there is
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 11:46 am
by _Os_
David in Gwent wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:47 am
The Middle Class
"I don't care about the working class of the country having whatever foisted on them, I want my kids to go and live in the South of France for a year, fuck those kids on estates"
How on earth is/was Erasmus a middle class privilege? It's a really cheap programme because of how heavily funded by the state European universities are. Anyone could pay the student/cost of living component (max maybe £4k and probably a lot less depending on the living cost of where they go) working some shit job for a summer and winter. Going to university in Europe was actually a really good option for someone from a working class background, because of the quality they could get for their money. Not many did it, but then not many escape the estates. That's how Braverman is from Harrow/Wembley but studied for two years at the Sorbonne.
At the other place I had this chat when the likes of Braverman ended UK participation in Erasmus. I was told UK students would instead go to North America. When I pointed out the cost of studying in America was easily into the tens of thousands, and no one is paying for that flipping burgers for a few months, I was told no not North America but Asia instead, UK students would go to the Philippines (this was in the "Global Britain" phase of Brexit). When I pointed out Asian universities are mostly shit and not English speaking, their best go to Europe/North America, SA unis are ranked above a lot Asia. I received abuse, because there's not many places outside Europe that are cheap/quality/English speaking.
Years later Erasmus has been replaced by nothing much. The only real issue about Erasmus for the UK, was not enough UK students took advantage of it.
If a kid from an estate wants to get ahead now, their only option is to compete for places at the best UK unis at a huge structural disadvantage to those that went to the best schools in the UK, and they're competing against the best of Asia for those places too. Nothing was negotiated allowing UK students to have cheaper access to European unis, if they go there they're paying international rates (Braverman studied at the Sorbonne for fuck all, but UK students paying international rates would now be spending £10k per year cash). Their only option is trying for a Russell group uni at heavily unfavourable odds, if they make it they then have a massive student loan to look forward too. If they don't it's a red brick and a qualification worth less in the job market, and still a massive student loan.
Meanwhile the UK uni system has to be funded. Government doesn't want to fully fund it, it wants unis to be like businesses. Fees from UK students aren't enough. Which means foreign students paying higher fees are needed, you support nuking all the UK's ties with Europe, which means Asians are needed (another thing predicted pre-Brexit, that the structure of the UK economy wouldn't change, Europeans would just be replaced by non-Europeans). Cut the flow of money to the unis and an industry the UK is a world leader in joins the mines/ship builders/car manufacturers/garment manufacturers.
What is your choice on unis, DAC? 1 Keep it as is. 2 Increase state funding reducing the need for high fee paying foreign students. 3 Axe any connection with foreigners and do not provide any further state funding, likely killing much of the sector.
Which of those do you think is best for the kid on an estate and which do you think is least likely to be supported by the Tories?
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 11:51 am
by Paddington Bear
Erasmus is such a red herring. Very few Brits ever took advantage of it, and as ever the places Brits really want to go to (and do) are the US, Canada, Australia and NZ
However the increased numbers of students isn't being matched by an increase in the infrastructure - the number of staff or teaching facilities etc.
The Uni my wife works at is building a whole load of student accommodation, but even then they are struggling, private rental prices here are crazy.
Another more recent thing happening here is that as the interest rates go up, HMO rentals are coming on the market, previously they were like hen's teeth, now landlords are getting out of the market, but they are not really selling.
Universities need to generate a significant surplus to be able to invest in new buildings and equipment, and most of them aren't doing that, even with the additional income from overseas students.
New student accommodation is a slightly different matter as they can usually get loans or other private investment for this as accommodation provides a guaranteed income and return on investment.
Without overseas student income, most of the sector would go bust.
I'm reasonably involved with this issue in Scotland, particularly on the African students side. The Uni's are absolutely shitting themselves about the new visa restrictions and are already seeing lots of Africans deciding to go to Canada/States/Germany instead of here, it's already having a massive impact.
I have a lot of sympathy, but also a feeling that they really do milk these overseas students as cash cows and have become very lazy and blasé in terms of what they are actually offering on top of the teaching to compete with other markets.
Very much so. A friend of mine has worked at several universities now and he tells me that UK degrees are losing a bit of their prestige in some of the places that typically send a lot of their students here. With the financial model being so reliant on them, the calibre of student being accepted has been falling and rubber-stamping them through their English prep classes is normalised. I'm sure that most of the top unis are still getting some decent candidates, but what benefit is there to the likes of Westminster (where both I and my friend worked) churning out class after class of foreign students with 2:2s (and frankly fortunate to be getting that high a grade) in Business Studies? The only win is the uni getting the money.
As for the sector going bust without foreign student income, I'm not convinced it doesn't need to contract a bit, but we also need to radically rethink what universities are actually for and how they should be run. They're meant to be institutions of education, not businesses.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 11:58 am
by Paddington Bear
Everybody who has seen or experienced higher education recently knows there are massive scams going on, that a huge amount of students can’t speak English, that the education quality is a joke and that cheating is rife in exams. As sock suggests, the reputation of British education is starting to circle the drain because of it, propped up by Oxbridge, Imperial and LSE, and to an extent the Russell Group.
Hell, its one of the reasons lower tier unis are reliant on foreign students - British ones know they’re shit.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:03 pm
by _Os_
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 11:51 am
Erasmus is such a red herring. Very few Brits ever took advantage of it, and as ever the places Brits really want to go to (and do) are the US, Canada, Australia and NZ
How many even knew it was an option? Those that did got a lot of mileage out of it, I know a lot of South Africans who have done post-grad in Europe, European unis are good value for money.
Meanwhile North America is not doing so well on the affordability front, somewhere decent is about £15k-£20k a year. The higher cost is a problem if you're seeking to subsidise students, because the money pays for less students.
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 11:54 am
They're meant to be institutions of education, not businesses.
But they've been told to be businesses. The logic of Thatcherism/neoliberalism is that everything should be marketised, even when it's not obvious that's a workable structure (not convinced it's a good idea in education), or if any real market is even possible (not convinced utilities are a market), or if there is a market the UK would compete quite badly in it (not convinced opening up UK agri to full international competition as some Tories demand, is a good idea for the UK).
I have no clue what it would cost to roll back all the student loans and to implement nearly full state funding of the sector. Not cheap. Anyone offering such a thing would be demonised/called a communist/become unelectable, for the simple reason that it would increase social mobility and not benefit the richest. It's so impossible it becomes redundant even wondering about it.
Run them as businesses and fly in Asians to keep it all fully funded it is then.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:42 pm
by Biffer
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 11:54 am
They're meant to be institutions of education, not businesses.
Not just education, research and innovation. They're meant to be the drivers of new tech ideas that go into an advanced economy. The unis are very good at that but the government and business sector aren't so great at converting what they come up with into economic gain.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:17 pm
by _Os_
Seeing as we have DAC on the call and the topic is immigration. A lot of what is happening now is by design and what your own side wanted DAC. I have the receipts.
April 2015: Farage, wants more Indian and Australian immigrants from the Commonwealth and less eastern European immigrants. Says India is more similar to the UK than Europe. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -europeans
January 2016: Woolfe UKIP's migration spokesman (who later ran for the UKIP leadership). Brexit will allow largescale non-European migration.
May 2016: Priti Patel (later became Home Secretary and in control of UK borders and immigration), vote for Brexit for more migration from India. In her words “It cannot be right that skilled Bangladeshi chefs should be penalised”, she was against caps on skilled migrants from outside the EU, which she said was part of a "biased" migration system. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politic ... 51071.html
June 2016: Farage, vote for Brexit to have more Commonwealth migration and less European migration. "EU membership makes it 'very difficult' for skilled migrants from India and Africa to come to the country. So after Brexit 'more black people would qualify to come in'". And believes immigration will become a "non-issue" if Brexit happens. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... arage.html
June 2016: Farage, wants an "Australian points based immigration system" that's "better for black people":
... and these are just some of the receipts, all pre-Brexit.
A lot of us you're raging against on this forum tried to tell you what would happen. I just listened to what the loonies were saying and believed them. That there would be no structural economic change, just the same economy with more Indian migrants and less European migrants, and less favourable trading conditions. Your side have a habit of claiming you were betrayed and this isn't what you voted for etc etc. But this is exactly what you voted for. No use going all class war and raging about middle classes, you have what you voted for and it's very hard to undo now.
Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 11:51 am
Erasmus is such a red herring. Very few Brits ever took advantage of it, and as ever the places Brits really want to go to (and do) are the US, Canada, Australia and NZ
How many even knew it was an option? Those that did got a lot of mileage out of it, I know a lot of South Africans who have done post-grad in Europe, European unis are good value for money.
Meanwhile North America is not doing so well on the affordability front, somewhere decent is about £15k-£20k a year. The higher cost is a problem if you're seeking to subsidise students, because the money pays for less students.
Can only speak for my own time at uni but it was heavily advertised. No one was that interested. The years abroad in Perth and the US were heavily oversubscribed
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 11:54 am
They're meant to be institutions of education, not businesses.
But they've been told to be businesses. The logic of Thatcherism/neoliberalism is that everything should be marketised, even when it's not obvious that's a workable structure (not convinced it's a good idea in education), or if any real market is even possible (not convinced utilities are a market), or if there is a market the UK would compete quite badly in it (not convinced opening up UK agri to full international competition as some Tories demand, is a good idea for the UK).
I have no clue what it would cost to roll back all the student loans and to implement nearly full state funding of the sector. Not cheap. Anyone offering such a thing would be demonised/called a communist/become unelectable, for the simple reason that it would increase social mobility and not benefit the richest. It's so impossible it becomes redundant even wondering about it.
Run them as businesses and fly in Asians to keep it all fully funded it is then.
tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 5:44 pm
Cleverly now denying he called Stockton-on-Tees a "shithole" but was calling the MP a "... is a shit MP". Well that's much better then
Either way he has now admitted lying to the house by denying he swore in the first place? Surely some punishment is forthcoming!
My wife played me the clip yesterday, he very clearly said shit hole. The only thing that the clip left unclear was if it was him saying it or not, and he's said it was, eventually, and lied about what he said in plain sight. Or in plain audio, I guess.
For the utter lack of respect to anyone who can hear, and of course my own personal lack of patience now for these scumbags, I want him gone.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 4:13 pm
by Margin__Walker
On a lighter note. This killed me
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 4:19 pm
by laurent
Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 4:13 pm
On a lighter note. This killed me
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 4:21 pm
by Raggs
Turns out he was told to use that bit of the hammer by the jeweller, still funny though.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2023 4:30 pm
by Margin__Walker
Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 4:21 pm
Turns out he was told to use that bit of the hammer by the jeweller, still funny though.
Don't ruin it for me Raggs
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:21 pm
by sockwithaticket
Came across this and thought it was pretty powerful and a good point.Includes a few quotes from NHS staff about the experience of working through covid.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:35 pm
by C69
Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 4:21 pm
Turns out he was told to use that bit of the hammer by the jeweller, still funny though.
Yip he was, the footage has been shown over and over.
But the damage is done
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:41 pm
by sockwithaticket
Given how the Tories used their pet press to make a gigantic deal out of how Ed Milliband ate a sandwich, I've limited sympathy for Sunak in this instance.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:36 pm
by Ymx
It was actually pretty witty of Labour to jump on it. Credit where it’s due.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:43 pm
by Biffer
Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 4:21 pm
Turns out he was told to use that bit of the hammer by the jeweller, still funny though.
Cue the Tory press alleging she's an active labour party member and shop steward, and it was all a deliberate plot to make him look stupid.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2023 11:49 pm
by C69
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:41 pm
Given how the Tories used their pet press to make a gigantic deal out of how Ed Milliband ate a sandwich, I've limited sympathy for Sunak in this instance.
If it was done today it would be rightly castigated as the racist shite it was.
He at a bacon sandwich FFS and it was usually referred to that he was Jewish and usually that his dad was a Marxist Jew.
Property price rises in southern England? An enormous number
Really, for instance how many people in England did it effect last year?
Its a myth
I’ve been referencing a 20 year+ period. We’re at the beginning of the largest inter-generational transfer of wealth this country has ever seen
Look at the average house price in London, for example, then look at the IHT exempt thresholds. You don’t need to have a mansion in the suburbs to have a large exposure to this.
It'll be very interesting to see what happens that inherited wealth. Does it get tied up in property again, or does it get released to produce the fluffiest boom of all booms.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2023 9:43 am
by Insane_Homer
silenced majority.png (84.68 KiB) Viewed 1198 times
C69 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 4:47 pm
Really, for instance how many people in England did it effect last year?
Its a myth
I’ve been referencing a 20 year+ period. We’re at the beginning of the largest inter-generational transfer of wealth this country has ever seen
Look at the average house price in London, for example, then look at the IHT exempt thresholds. You don’t need to have a mansion in the suburbs to have a large exposure to this.
It'll be very interesting to see what happens that inherited wealth. Does it get tied up in property again, or does it get released to produce the fluffiest boom of all booms.
The former I would expect. Can only speak for myself but my grandparents having a semi in a non-descript part of North London has allowed all their grandchildren to buy property.
Re: Stop voting for fucking Tories
Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2023 5:57 pm
by SaintK
She's gone full-on batshit crazy!!
Liz Truss, the shortest-serving prime minister in British history, who was memorably shown to have a shorter shelf life than a lettuce, has in effect backed Donald Trump in next year’s US presidential election.
Writing in the Wall Street Journal, Truss – who spent just 49 days in No 10 Downing Street before being turfed out by her own Conservative party in large part for pitching the UK economy into crisis – said she wished for a Republican president next.
