NPR

Every time I think this country can’t go any lower we somehow find a way to manage.

Please can we have a GE soon.

With the run we are on there will be some freak set of circumstances that mean Farage ends up as PM

JRM get ratiod good...

JRM: "If we don’t leave the jurisdiction of the European Court of Human Rights we will not solve our immigration problem."

MG: “The ECHR is British in origin. It is our heritage and our standards. If you cannot operate by our British values, you should not be in our Parliament.”

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/polit ... wn-364963/

Meanwhile, someone poor sod has died on Braverman's prison hulk. It would appear to be suicide.

Sammy Wilson the brain surgeon from the DUP says "Ulster says no!". Among all the waffle he claimed immigrants are stopping people accessing the health service, a Farage line, not sure who he thinks is staffing the health service in the UK.

Looks like the bill will pass so far, not many declaring outright their voting against it, just Danny Kruger who is one of the leaders of the "five families".

Bill may well just scrape through but wouldn't mind betting on pressure for amendments and a second reading

_Os_ wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 4:39 pm Sammy Wilson the brain surgeon from the DUP says "Ulster says no!". Among all the waffle he claimed immigrants are stopping people accessing the health service, a Farage line, not sure who he thinks is staffing the health service in the UK.

Looks like the bill will pass so far, not many declaring outright their voting against it, just Danny Kruger who is one of the leaders of the "five families".

Ooooh; so it's not because the DUP threw their toys out of the Pram when they lost their majority, & the biggoted scum couldn't deal with a Catholic actually having power. Got it

I see Generic brought up ever crime a refugee has been accused of, as some sort of justification for deporting them.

I'll bet though if you compared the rate of criminal offenses committed by the members of the last 13 years worth of Tories, & refugees, you deport the Tories for the worse ratio of criminality !!!

Francois says the Bill is dead in the water.
The 5 families will not support the Bill.

Open warfare.

C69 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 6:48 pm Francois says the Bill is dead in the water.
The 5 families will not support the Bill.

Open warfare.

So "Not Support" means abstain I assume, so the Government doesn't have the numbers if that happens ?

Vote pulled in 3...2...

geordie_6 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 6:55 pm Vote pulled in 3...2...

The head boy hasn't so much painted himself into a corner, so much as he's sowed a minefield, & then realized that the ERG et al have sowed one too, that backs up to his .

Another new PM for the New Year ?

Sunak wins this round. The 5 families have shown they have the numbers if they vote against him.

The 5 families are aiming to make amendments. The one nation Tories during the debate were clear they would not vote in support of anything more extreme, some specifically said any amendments and they're not supporting it.

My guess is the amendments will happen. The one nation Tories are wimps and not well led (their big beasts have been purged), they tend to waffle a load of bullshit then "regretfully vote with the government", a lot of the worst the Tories have come up with would've got nowhere if they showed any spine. I reckon it's not going to be stopped, how extreme it becomes who knows. Creatures lurking in the 5 families will want this to be really extreme, for them it's an added bonus the more rights can be stripped from more people.

The fact that a man like Francois (as puppeted by the likes of Bill Cash) has any influence on anything more important than serving tea at a school fête shows what a state this country is in, and how spineless Sunak is. Thatcher, rot her soul, would have crushed Francois' balls in a vice before he had a chance to get in front of the camera.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 9:13 pm The fact that a man like Francois (as puppeted by the likes of Bill Cash) has any influence on anything more important than serving tea at a school fête shows what a state this country is in, and how spineless Sunak is. Thatcher, rot her soul, would have crushed Francois' balls in a vice before he had a chance to get in front of the camera.

I'm surprised the Russians & Chinese bother hacking your comms; the Tory MPs couldn't be more obviously, "For Sale", if they were standing on street corners wearing fishnets & latex mini skirts.

It also turns out that everything the Tory right wing said and did was just empty posturing and in the end they voted to prolong their stay on the political gravy train rather than stand up for what they supposedly believe in. Who knew?

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 11:05 pm It also turns out that everything the Tory right wing said and did was just empty posturing and in the end they voted to prolong their stay on the political gravy train rather than stand up for what they supposedly believe in. Who knew?

This is exactly what they wanted. They knew the figures.
They want to make amendments later
The Tories are now just a bunch of factions.
There is now open warfare and just a load of hatred.

The Gov were never going to be defeated in the vote - Tory self preservation is strong - those swimming pools dont heat themselves you know! They dont have a shred of morality amongst them and will continue to fight like rats in a sack until it comes to threatening their own gravy train at which point they would vote to strangle their own Granny to stay in power. It is all just a big dead cat and the papers and media fall for it, it will continue to provide them with a racist vehicle up to the next election to appeal to their gammon voters. In the interim the Tory psycho-drama will give them lots of headlines about being strong on immigration, about how weak Labour are and will create open borders, about how we are being invaded by criminals and rapists, about how immigrants are ruining everyones chances to get affordable housing, a GP appointment, etc. The sad things is that many of the voting public, aided and abetted by the right wing media, will believe all this shite.

Meanwhile all the time this Rwanda and 'Stop the Boats' war nonsense stays in the headlines and everyone has by now forgotten the lies and falsehoods told by the Head Boy and the Blonde Bumblecunt to the Covid Enquiry. It is also drowning out the early warning signs of the NHS beginning to buckle under the winter pressures, negative growth in the last quarter, rising homeless numbers, implementation of Brexit tariffs and veterinary checks for EU goods, etc. £300m well spent in the Tory eyes.

On being asked about the 140 000 homeless children this coming Christmas, Sunak doesn't exactly look composed...

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 8:57 pm

Has Mark's psychotherapist let him talk to the public again?

I'm not buying that it's 4D chess by the Tories. At the end of November I listed some cracks that were showing in Sunak's administration, things were becoming chaotic.

For this vote there were 29 Tory rebels that went against the Tory whip and abstained, mostly the usual backbench Tory crazies. 29 is enough if they voted against the government. There's others that voted with the government, but will switch sides and abstain or vote against the government if they think there's advantage in it for them, these are chancers and cowards like Rees-Mogg, Shapps, Zahawi, Truss. My guess is there's 40 to 60 MPs in and around the five families who are strongly opposed to Sunak.

What this means is Sunak cannot do much as he risks looking weak. Especially if he tries to legislate on the favourite topics of the five families (immigration/Brexit/international treaties/sovereignty). Don't expect much legislating and governing through 2024, it'll be a zombie government that decides it's much safer to campaign for an entire year. They'll keep going with Rwanda on the basis of they've come this far and the media profile it has, and that'll be it.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 3:39 pm I'm not buying that it's 4D chess by the Tories. At the end of November I listed some cracks that were showing in Sunak's administration, things were becoming chaotic.

For this vote there were 29 Tory rebels that went against the Tory whip and abstained, mostly the usual backbench Tory crazies. 29 is enough if they voted against the government. There's others that voted with the government, but will switch sides and abstain or vote against the government if they think there's advantage in it for them, these are chancers and cowards like Rees-Mogg, Schapps, Zahawi, Truss. My guess is there's 40 to 60 MPs in and around the five families who are strongly opposed to Sunak.

What this means is Sunak cannot do much as he risks looking weak. Especially if he tries to legislate on the favourite topics of the five families (immigration/Brexit/international treaties/sovereignty). Don't expect much legislating and governing through 2024, it'll be a zombie government that decides it's much safer to campaign for an entire year. They'll keep going with Rwanda on the basis of they've come this far and the media profile it has, and that'll be it.

I suppose I am saying the same thing roughly. They will be happy to delay any votes on the Rwanda policy as long as possible whilst giving the impression that they are being held up by woke lefties in the HoL and HoC, in committees and by left wing 'enemy of the people' lawyers producing sound legal opinions and shout they are being frustrated on implementing the 'will of the people'. They won't bring it to a vote prior to the next election, it will get bumped down the line but it will be kept live and that is the plan as it gives them an opportunity to make 'Stop the Boats' and 'Immigrant Rapists' the focal point of their GE campaign. They are desperate to make this the key wedge issue on which to fight the GE, the last thing they want is the economy, the NHS, housing, etc to be the fighting ground. They want to blame immigrants for their failure in all these areas - despite the opposite being true. They also need to deflect from the unmitigated disaster of Brexit. None of the Tory MPs really want to bring the Gov down as they know this would trigger a GE and make it even more likely they would lose their seat. None of them want to lose their cushy numbers as MPs with their expenses and GBabiesNews contracts! They will huff and puff about Rwanda and push it as far as they can but will not commit political harakiri - they will just use it to play to their own voters and to try and avoid losing more votes to Reform Party/Farage. They know their only hope is to yet again use immigration and Union Jack waving in order to win the Little Englander vote, they think the further right they go the more votes they will win and in some seats this is true. Rwanda is just the equivalent of the Farage 'Breaking Point' poster but a little bit more expensive.

It is the death throes of a zombie gov who are desperate to stay in power and happy to destroy what is left of the country in order to protect their own and their mates vested interests. Some are also shitting themselves over future Covid Enquiry into PPE procurement and possible criminal prosecution and want to push that as far into the future as possible. Sunak will, by the time that happens, will be ensconced in his new high tech role in California or India with Father in Law.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 3:39 pm I'm not buying that it's 4D chess by the Tories. At the end of November I listed some cracks that were showing in Sunak's administration, things were becoming chaotic.

For this vote there were 29 Tory rebels that went against the Tory whip and abstained, mostly the usual backbench Tory crazies. 29 is enough if they voted against the government. There's others that voted with the government, but will switch sides and abstain or vote against the government if they think there's advantage in it for them, these are chancers and cowards like Rees-Mogg, Shapps, Zahawi, Truss. My guess is there's 40 to 60 MPs in and around the five families who are strongly opposed to Sunak.

What this means is Sunak cannot do much as he risks looking weak. Especially if he tries to legislate on the favourite topics of the five families (immigration/Brexit/international treaties/sovereignty). Don't expect much legislating and governing through 2024, it'll be a zombie government that decides it's much safer to campaign for an entire year. They'll keep going with Rwanda on the basis of they've come this far and the media profile it has, and that'll be it.

I keep saying that while this would normally be a bad thing, given what constitutes their attempts to govern and legislate, their not doing so wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

I'm sure they'll all unite to so something to fuck the environment without too much fuss, however. Sunak only understands the money the fossil fuel donors bring, and he's far too rich to be impacted by climate change, and that puts him in lockstep with the aims of the sceptics, cranks and outright liars on the Anti Net Zero griftwagon, who coincidentally happen to be the ERG, Star Chamber and the usual other suspects... Funny, that.

dpedin wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 4:01 pm I suppose I am saying the same thing roughly.

Our picks are different.

I definitely don't think they want Rwanda still going through parliament or in the courts during an election. To them that'll look like failure. They want Rwanda done and planes carrying people on the front pages of the Tory press, that's what they want during an election. My expectation is it passes with amendments that make it more extreme. If that's enough to get planes going to Rwanda on the frontpages of the Tory press by the end of 2024 and there's no possible legal challenges, I have no clue. They want to be able to make Starmer say if he supports or opposes Rwanda, which doesn't work unless Rwanda is real.

The treaty expires in 2027, so even if it happens it would have to be Labour that carries out of the bulk of it. I cannot see that happening. Starmer has already said all the money spent is a waste and has written it off. Even if Labour tried to pilot it because they're scared of losing voters, as soon as any problems come up they would use that as a reason to dump it.

Where I agree with you is the Tories are going to try and fight on immigration, Labour are ahead on everything but the Tories are closest to Labour in that area. The Tories have decided they want to win back the Reform vote, using them to avoid going under entirely. They could've tried to position themselves to win back the numerically larger amount of voters they've lost to Labour and the Lib Dems, but they've given up on them. The Tory election campaign will be nasty and focused on winning their nastiest voters back. Polling shows most people put the economy/cost of living and the NHS as the top two priorities, that's where the real election will be won.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 6:28 pm

dpedin wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2023 4:01 pm I suppose I am saying the same thing roughly.

Our picks are different.

I definitely don't think they want Rwanda still going through parliament or in the courts during an election. To them that'll look like failure. They want Rwanda done and planes carrying people on the front pages of the Tory press, that's what they want during an election. My expectation is it passes with amendments that make it more extreme. If that's enough to get planes going to Rwanda on the frontpages of the Tory press by the end of 2024 and there's no possible legal challenges, I have no clue. They want to be able to make Starmer say if he supports or opposes Rwanda, which doesn't work unless Rwanda is real.

The treaty expires in 2027, so even if it happens it would have to be Labour that carries out of the bulk of it. I cannot see that happening. Starmer has already said all the money spent is a waste and has written it off. Even if Labour tried to pilot it because they're scared of losing voters, as soon as any problems come up they would use that as a reason to dump it.

Where I agree with you is the Tories are going to try and fight on immigration, Labour are ahead on everything but the Tories are closest to Labour in that area. The Tories have decided they want to win back the Reform vote, using them to avoid going under entirely. They could've tried to position themselves to win back the numerically larger amount of voters they've lost to Labour and the Lib Dems, but they've given up on them. The Tory election campaign will be nasty and focused on winning their nastiest voters back. Polling shows most people put the economy/cost of living and the NHS as the top two priorities, that's where the real election will be won.

Whichever way to goes it is going to get really interesting and probably all depends on when we think they will call an election. I am going for a May election which is why I dont think they will try too hard to get Rwanda done as time will be tight, they will use let the timetable drift to avoid the inevitable showdown across the Party.

Meanwhile HoC Committee has recommended that Tory twat Scott Benton is suspended from HoC for 35 days. Next week we should hear if Peter Bone recall petition will lead to a by election. Cunts keep in cunting!

dpedin wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:18 am Meanwhile HoC Committee has recommended that Tory twat Scott Benton is suspended from HoC for 35 days. Next week we should hear if Peter Bone recall petition will lead to a by election. Cunts keep in cunting!

Corrupt and for sale apparently.
Even amongst the present bunch of cnuts he is spectacularly dishonest.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 12, 2023 2:51 pm

This is the content I come to this thread for.

Also "five families"

Mark Francois definitely stands at the bar (on a box) and tells people 'the Pride's pouring well'. Then tells everyone he could have joined the Paras but broke his leg during basic training, before waddling home to beat his chode to The Dam Busters.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rchaeology

Kemi Bad Enoch remains a fucking moron I see.

Brazil wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 11:34 am https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rchaeology

Kemi Bad Enoch remains a fucking moron I see.

Tories concentrating on the really crucial stuff again, I see

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 11:47 am

Brazil wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 11:34 am https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rchaeology

Kemi Bad Enoch remains a fucking moron I see.

Tories concentrating on the really crucial stuff again, I see

Badenoch said the research into 14th-century London risked damaging trust in modern health services

You got problems if 14th century medical care is your benchmark.

She is a moron, but the researchers did make an explicit link to the present day according to that article. Makes me feel dirty to say, but I don't think she's wholly out of line in saying that research drawing a fairly tenuous and speculative gap, however couched in qualifications, between minority treatment then and now could be fairly inflammatory.

Of course, if she'd said nothing, this likely would have passed entirely without notice.

By examining five features of the skulls and comparing these with a forensic databank covering modern and historical global populations, it estimated the likely heritage of people who died and found that those of African heritage were disproportionately more likely to have died from plague than people of European or Asian ancestry, compared with non-plague deaths.

While stressing the need for caution given the sample size, the authors said the results suggested there was value in considering structural racism in such research, likening this to the higher death rates for people from some minority ethnic groups during Covid.

Stuff like that just reminds me why I didn't get on with the archaeology modules I had to do at uni when my first and second choice history modules were over-subscribed. It always felt like people groping around for a story to tell based on minimal evidence, combine that with the need to prove novelty of research avenue... I much preferred more modern periods where there was a greater written evidence base to get your teeth into.

Noticed they went ahead with the ban on boilers for new builds and stopped pretending that hydrogen for domestic heat was good idea.

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 12:07 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 11:47 am

Brazil wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 11:34 am https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rchaeology

Kemi Bad Enoch remains a fucking moron I see.

Tories concentrating on the really crucial stuff again, I see

Badenoch said the research into 14th-century London risked damaging trust in modern health services

You got problems if 14th century medical care is your benchmark.

Unicorns and leeches for all!

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 1:10 pm

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 12:07 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 11:47 am

Tories concentrating on the really crucial stuff again, I see

Badenoch said the research into 14th-century London risked damaging trust in modern health services

You got problems if 14th century medical care is your benchmark.

Unicorns and leeches for all!

Well the Tories are experts at bleeding people white !

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Thu Dec 14, 2023 10:21 am Also "five families"

It shows how unserious they are. It's possibly the worst name they could've picked, mafia connotations and openly admitting there's splits every which way possible. It's electoral nuclear waste.

Bizarre that the pro-Tory press are using it too, the Sun's political editor:

The Last Leg stitch Braverman up good and proper

Insane_Homer wrote: ↑Sat Dec 16, 2023 4:31 pm The Last Leg stitch Braverman up good and proper

Dear God