Kicking off in Israel

[Tichtheid]

Ymx doesn’t say who or what his sources are, but googling the first paragraph of the one posted at 11:22am and then looking at the source, wiki describes them as

The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), officially the Middle East Media and Research Institute,[1] is an American non-profit press monitoring and analysis organization that was co-founded by Israeli ex-intelligence officer Yigal Carmon and Israeli-American political scientist Meyrav Wurmser in 1997. It publishes and distributes free copies of media reports that have been translated into English—primarily from Arabic and Persian, but also from Urdu, Turkish, Pashto, and Russian.[5]

Critics describe MEMRI as a strongly pro-Israel advocacy group that, in spite of describing itself as being "independent" and "non-partisan" in nature,[6][7][8] aims to portray the Arab world and the Muslim world in a negative light by producing and disseminating incomplete or inaccurate translations of the original versions of the media reports that it re-publishes.[9][10] It has also been accused of selectively focusing on the views of Islamic extremists while de-emphasizing or ignoring mainstream opinions

It could be, of course, that the article was reprinted elsewhere and that was where Ymx picked it up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ea ... _Institute

The tweet earlier was from Eylon Levy

Eylon Aslan Levy is an official Israeli government spokesman, serving since the start of 2023 Israel–Hamas war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eylon_Levy

[I like neeps]

Indeed, people do not want to (potentially) sacrifice themselves and then want to whine other people don't act in such fashion.

And if half a million people tried to force entry they could do it, and then we'd find out if Israel is happy to shell Westeners

One of the all time unserious posts, chapeau.

Yes, but also no. There are a lot of people gnashing their teeth right up until the opportunity for them to act is presented, at which point suddenly it's not so serious an issue.

There are very few to no actions individuals can actually take though. But it is totally unserious to suggest that people go to Palestine. (A) Israel/Egypt aren't letting enough people into Israel/Egypt for some mass overcoming on the militarised borders and that's not taking into account there's not really even the transport options for that and (b) a few individuals aren't getting in anyway because as said, it's a militarised borders.

[Calculon]

Ymx doesn’t say who or what his sources are, but googling the first paragraph of the one posted at 11:22am and then looking at the source, wiki describes them as

The Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), officially the Middle East Media and Research Institute,[1] is an American non-profit press monitoring and analysis organization that was co-founded by Israeli ex-intelligence officer Yigal Carmon and Israeli-American political scientist Meyrav Wurmser in 1997. It publishes and distributes free copies of media reports that have been translated into English—primarily from Arabic and Persian, but also from Urdu, Turkish, Pashto, and Russian.[5]

Critics describe MEMRI as a strongly pro-Israel advocacy group that, in spite of describing itself as being "independent" and "non-partisan" in nature,[6][7][8] aims to portray the Arab world and the Muslim world in a negative light by producing and disseminating incomplete or inaccurate translations of the original versions of the media reports that it re-publishes.[9][10] It has also been accused of selectively focusing on the views of Islamic extremists while de-emphasizing or ignoring mainstream opinions

It could be, of course, that the article was reprinted elsewhere and that was where Ymx picked it up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ea ... _Institute

The tweet earlier was from Eylon Levy

Eylon Aslan Levy is an official Israeli government spokesman, serving since the start of 2023 Israel–Hamas war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eylon_Levy

Yeah, all smears by those horrible Joos. Hamas are in fact a bunch of lovely lads just looking for a bit of craic.

[Tichtheid]

Yeah, all smears by those horrible Joos. Hamas are in fact a bunch of lovely lads just looking for a bit of craic.

Those are your words, not mine.

I looked for the sources of material which had been posted.

[Calculon]

Yeah, all smears by those horrible Joos. Hamas are in fact a bunch of lovely lads just looking for a bit of craic.

Those are your words, not mine.

I looked for the sources of material which had been posted.

How about looking at the numerous other sources that back up that information, like the EU report on schools in Gaza, rather than trying to discredit the information

[Calculon]

The calls for ceasefire are also pretty bizarre since Hamas have no intention of being part of one. They're still firing rockets into Israeli towns at any opportunity they get, and have vowed to do another October 7th as soon as they are able to.

[Sandstorm]

Ban all religious gatherings and teachings in Gaza. Can’t indoctrinate kids into Jihad if you keep the religious nutters away from them.

[Tichtheid]

Yeah, all smears by those horrible Joos. Hamas are in fact a bunch of lovely lads just looking for a bit of craic.

Those are your words, not mine.

I looked for the sources of material which had been posted.

How about looking at the numerous other sources that back up that information, like the EU report on schools in Gaza, rather than trying to discredit the information

You are at liberty to post those sources and I'll read them if you do, I'll also look at who wrote them - does that sound fair enough? I'm not saying indoctrination doesn't happen, but the cliché of the the first casualty of war being truth is a cliché because that is the case. I find it difficult to take anything at face value on this topic, and not just from the Israeli state machine.

The calls for ceasefire are also pretty bizarre since Hamas have no intention of being part of one. They're still firing rockets into Israeli towns at any opportunity they get, and have vowed to do another October 7th as soon as they are able to.

From Reuters today (I've only read the first half of the article so far)

DOHA/CAIRO/JERUSALEM, Jan 23 (Reuters) - Israel and Hamas broadly agree in principle that an exchange of Israeli hostages for Palestinian prisoners could take place during a month-long ceasefire, but the framework plan is being held up by the two sides' differences over how to bring a permanent end to the Gaza war, three sources said.


https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 024-01-23/

[Ymx]

Feel free to block your ears, especially to one side from sources you disagree with. I don’t actually care who you dislike.

[SaintK]

Feel free to block your ears, especially to one side from sources you disagree with. I don’t actually care who you dislike.

You mean a bit like you eh?

[Uncle fester]

Ban all religious gatherings and teachings in Gaza. Can’t indoctrinate kids into Jihad if you keep the religious nutters away from them.

Cart before horse there.
The Palestinian religious extremism is a result of the conflict, not the cause of it.

[Slick]

Ban all religious gatherings and teachings in Gaza. Can’t indoctrinate kids into Jihad if you keep the religious nutters away from them.

Cart before horse there.
The Palestinian religious extremism is a result of the conflict, not the cause of it.

Hmm

[Jockaline]

The fewer the better. But Hamas absolutely have to be destroyed.

Hamas isn't so much an organisation or army, but an ideology.

You will never defeat it by giving it more reasons to exist, continuing their relevance and natural support. To defeat them you need to take away the reasons for their existence and that means giving hope to Palestinians for a good life free of persecution. Israel are just digging themselves a bigger hole by their current actions.

[Jockaline]

Ban all religious gatherings and teachings in Gaza. Can’t indoctrinate kids into Jihad if you keep the religious nutters away from them.

Further erode their human rights and fully enslave them to their Israel masters who can continue their religious teachings that proclaim they are the chosen people.

[Ymx]

The fewer the better. But Hamas absolutely have to be destroyed.

Hamas isn't so much an organisation or army, but an ideology.

You will never defeat it by giving it more reasons to exist, continuing their relevance and natural support. To defeat them you need to take away the reasons for their existence and that means giving hope to Palestinians for a good life free of persecution. Israel are just digging themselves a bigger hole by their current actions.

Disagree. It’s already festering and indoctrinating in there.

You are ignoring the opportunity swatted away when Gaza was given to Palestinians since 2006, with huge opportunities and international/UN funding.

Hamas need to be wiped off, so they no longer exist. As a symbol as well. Only then can a societal rebuilding occur. At the moment mothers are crying happy when their sons are martyred.

The Palestinian Authority pays families of those who fight and are caught by the IDF.

[Tichtheid]

The Palestinian Authority pays families of those who fight and are caught by the IDF.

IDF soldiers are paid by the state of Israel, as well as receiving aid from the likes of the USA.

From a quick google, a career soldier in the IDF can accumulate 76% of their final salary as pension, the highest a civil servant in Israel can gain is 70% of their final salary.

[Ymx]

Hamas. Oops we made a mistake …

Didn’t mean to mutilate, torture, rape, and kidnap.

It happens … trust us …

[Sandstorm]

Ban all religious gatherings and teachings in Gaza. Can’t indoctrinate kids into Jihad if you keep the religious nutters away from them.

Cart before horse there.
The Palestinian religious extremism is a result of the conflict, not the cause of it.

Palestinian extremism continues because other religious fucks nearby pay them to be extremists. The issue here is weaponising Islam with cash.

[I like neeps]

[Tichtheid]

From the link

Eventually they got the body to a safer place, where his wife, his widow, began to wail and mourn her loss.

Mr Abu Sahloul sold children’s clothes for a living.

In response to a request from ITV News, the IDF said it categorically denies any existence of "field executions".

An IDF statement read: "It is imperative to emphasise that the alarming, libelous and a gross mischaracterisation of the war with these despicable accusations can only be deemed as an extension of Hamas' propaganda effort to defame the IDF and undermine our objective to dismantle Hamas and ensure the terrorist entity never again holds the power to build a terrorist army, invade Israel, murder, burn, rape and abduct Israelis."

That could have been written on here.

Meanwhile, looking up Ymx's latest source, he wrote an article calling for the assassination of members of Hamas on foreign soil.

I found it by looking up the name, if needed I'll provide the link if Googling is beyond anyone here.

[Guy Smiley]

Ban all religious gatherings and teachings in Gaza. Can’t indoctrinate kids into Jihad if you keep the religious nutters away from them.

Cart before horse there.
The Palestinian religious extremism is a result of the conflict, not the cause of it.

Palestinian extremism continues because other religious fucks nearby pay them to be extremists. The issue here is weaponising Islam with cash.

Fuck off Sandy... you're drawing a long bow here to equate Islam at large with localised extremism. If you want to be that clumsy about it let's just say that displacing and marginalising the Palestinians in their own land by a hostile occupying force is the cause of the extremism...


oh. That's actually not clumsy though, is it?

[Calculon]

Ban all religious gatherings and teachings in Gaza. Can’t indoctrinate kids into Jihad if you keep the religious nutters away from them.

Cart before horse there.
The Palestinian religious extremism is a result of the conflict, not the cause of it.

Palestinian extremism continues because other religious fucks nearby pay them to be extremists. The issue here is weaponising Islam with cash.

That whole region is awash with Islamic extremism, failing states, ethnic conflicts and autocratic governments. It’s obviously the fault of Israel and America, nothing to do with their religion and culture

[Uncle fester]

Ban all religious gatherings and teachings in Gaza. Can’t indoctrinate kids into Jihad if you keep the religious nutters away from them.

Cart before horse there.
The Palestinian religious extremism is a result of the conflict, not the cause of it.

Palestinian extremism continues because other religious fucks nearby pay them to be extremists. The issue here is weaponising Islam with cash.

And it's fertile ground for that weaponisation because of the political and economic situation.

You compare ethnic groups who maintain separate identities while peacefully living with others to groups where violence is common and invariably there is an economic component.

Young men with no jobs have plenty of time to be making bombs.

[Hugo]

Cart before horse there.
The Palestinian religious extremism is a result of the conflict, not the cause of it.

Palestinian extremism continues because other religious fucks nearby pay them to be extremists. The issue here is weaponising Islam with cash.

That whole region is awash with Islamic extremism, failing states, ethnic conflicts and autocratic governments. It’s obviously the fault of Israel and America, nothing to do with their religion and culture

The US is at least partly to blame for this particular problem in Gaza because of the unequivocal support that it gives Israel. In a very real sense the arms the US has given Israel have killed and maimed Gazans. It says that it is committed to a two state solution but those are hollow words when it provides carte blanche support to Israel when BN says it will never happen.

In a broader sense the US is virtually always a common denominator in the major issues of conflict and instability in the world. If not as an active participant then as the country who is providing arms to one of the sides.

[Ymx]

[Guy Smiley]

How many children killed in Gaza since this conflict started, now?

[Uncle fester]

How many children killed in Gaza since this conflict started, now?

Hamas
Hamas
Hamas
Destroy them till they are destroyed.

That's about all you're going to get in response.

[Guy Smiley]

How many children killed in Gaza since this conflict started, now?

Hamas
Hamas
Hamas
Destroy them till they are destroyed.

That's about all you're going to get in response.

Don't forget indoctrination and Islamic brainwashing.

[Enzedder]

I haven't heard of a war where innocents were not killed. Even the Yanks with their super weapons couldn't avoid it in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Ever since Gaza attacked Israel, this was going to happen. Israel cannot stop and leave them with the ability to attack again - because they will attack again if they are not routed from Gaza.

I hate the deaths of innocents but I support Israel's right to exist. After many hundreds of years of progroms and a holocaust, they were always going to fight anyone to the death for that right.

In 1947 the Jews still had many thousands of people languishing in concentration camps still, because no country would take them. The formation of Israel was the solution (rightly or wrongly) and they will NEVER relinquish that given the circumstances leading up to it.

Similarly, the formation of a state for the Palestinians is the solution but it may well have to have a substantial buffer between them and Israel. I don't think that is possible so, in effect, the Palestinians have replaced the Jews as being stateless and now homeless. And the other states in the region couldn't give a toss - they don't want to help as that could end up in them losing land or being embroiled in the mess.

I can see Gaza being, in effect, a prison controlled by Israel for many many years.

[Uncle fester]

I haven't heard of a war where innocents were not killed. Even the Yanks with their super weapons couldn't avoid it in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Ever since Gaza attacked Israel, this was going to happen. Israel cannot stop and leave them with the ability to attack again - because they will attack again if they are not routed from Gaza.

I hate the deaths of innocents but I support Israel's right to exist. After many hundreds of years of progroms and a holocaust, they were always going to fight anyone to the death for that right.

In 1947 the Jews still had many thousands of people languishing in concentration camps still, because no country would take them. The formation of Israel was the solution (rightly or wrongly) and they will NEVER relinquish that given the circumstances leading up to it.

Similarly, the formation of a state for the Palestinians is the solution but it may well have to have a substantial buffer between them and Israel. I don't think that is possible so, in effect, the Palestinians have replaced the Jews as being stateless and now homeless. And the other states in the region couldn't give a toss - they don't want to help as that could end up in them losing land or being embroiled in the mess.

I can see Gaza being, in effect, a prison controlled by Israel for many many years.

Posted an article way back quoting a well regarded Israeli academic who said that without some sort of settlement with Palestinians, the state of Israel is doomed.

To protect their right to exist, they need peace and an end to the slaughter. The "but Hamas" strategy is running out of road as Israeli policy is getting more extreme and the west is turning against them.

This is the one.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ ... dApp_Other

[Uncle fester]

Re: the next generation will get indoctrinated …

The children of Gaza are already subject to constant propaganda.

I sent an earlier video on little Palestinian school kids talking about how there aspirations are to kill Jews.

Here is another cute treat for the really young ones.



Until Hamas are gone, this doesn’t ever go away.

Hope they might stop cowardly hiding behind civilians, and civilian buildings.

Also need to go after their enablers who built them up to try and weaken Fatah. That would be folks like Bibi.

[Ymx]

Children will continue to be killed due to the nature of Hamas hiding behind them.

Once Hamas are extinguished there will need to be a huge rebuilding of both sides. Undoubtedly other independent countries will need a presence in Gaza for years to come. I am almost certain Bibi is not the right leader for that stage. Maybe not the right leader for this stage.

But, right now, Hamas need to be destroyed. That is the only step 1 to this process.

There are many of those who hate the Israelis who would prefer a permanent ceasefire, and allowing Hamas to remain in place to repeat Oct 7. I’m certainly not one of them. But there are several in this thread.

[Gumboot]

Children will continue to be killed due to the nature of Hamas hiding behind them.

Once Hamas are extinguished there will need to be a huge rebuilding of both sides. Undoubtedly other independent countries will need a presence in Gaza for years to come. I am almost certain Bibi is not the right leader for that stage. Maybe not the right leader for this stage.

But, right now, Hamas need to be destroyed. That is the only step 1 to this process.

There are many of those who hate the Israelis who would prefer a permanent ceasefire, and allowing Hamas to remain in place to repeat Oct 7. I’m certainly not one of them. But there are several in this thread.

There are also some on this thread who consider the chance of Israel ever destroying Hamas as less than zero.

I am one of them. It's a ridiculous, self-defeating argument. The war on Hamas is as delusional as the war on drugs. An unwinnable fight. Common sense won't stop people on both sides fighting and dying for it though.

[assfly]

Hamas will never be completely destroyed. They are too embedded in the population.

[Ymx]

Children will continue to be killed due to the nature of Hamas hiding behind them.

Once Hamas are extinguished there will need to be a huge rebuilding of both sides. Undoubtedly other independent countries will need a presence in Gaza for years to come. I am almost certain Bibi is not the right leader for that stage. Maybe not the right leader for this stage.

But, right now, Hamas need to be destroyed. That is the only step 1 to this process.

There are many of those who hate the Israelis who would prefer a permanent ceasefire, and allowing Hamas to remain in place to repeat Oct 7. I’m certainly not one of them. But there are several in this thread.

There are also some on this thread who consider the chance of Israel ever destroying Hamas as less than zero.

I am one of them. It's a ridiculous, self-defeating argument. The war on Hamas is as delusional as the war on drugs. An unwinnable fight. Common sense won't stop people on both sides fighting and dying for it though.

Not so. Once their military leadership is all gone, the current crop surrendered, and the hostages rescued- if any are still alive.

[Gumboot]

"The only way to ensure Israel's security is to annihalate Hamas!"

The Final Solution, natch.

[Gumboot]

Once their military leadership is all gone, the current crop surrendered, and the hostages rescued- if any are still alive.

Sorry, but are you just taking the piss now because you have nothing better to do?

[C69]

Once their military leadership is all gone, the current crop surrendered, and the hostages rescued- if any are still alive.

Sorry, but are you just taking the piss now because you have nothing better to do?

No I think he is sincere in his assertions and actually believes this.

[I like neeps]

Quite how long the US can continue allowing Israel's relentless slaughter after this is... interesting.

[Jockaline]

"The only way to ensure Israel's security is to annihalate Hamas!"

The Final Solution, natch.

and since the Hamas and Palestinians all look the same and inhabit the same space, it is necessary to annihilate Palestinians too. Also need take control of that space so neither can live their again without fear, and maybe build some houses for the right kind of people.