NPR

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:29 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:28 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:47 am I'm expecting Edinburgh to lose Jamie Ritchie this year. He'll be off to England or France on money we can't match I think. It'll be a shame to lose him but it lets Crosbie get a lot more game time and opens possibilities for Darge and Boyle to step into the place Crosbie has been the last couple of years.

Richie, Watson and Mata all out of contract. If they all go that is a significant blow. I’d hope Richie hangs on for a few more years.

I think he's the most likely to get the big contract. Younger player so better investment.

To be honest, I’m not sure it’s be the worst thing if Mata went. They rely on him far too much to the detriment of the overall balance of the team. Plus, it might be the making of Bradbury, he really needs to kick on and become the player he can be.

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:47 am I'm expecting Edinburgh to lose Jamie Ritchie this year. He'll be off to England or France on money we can't match I think. It'll be a shame to lose him but it lets Crosbie get a lot more game time and opens possibilities for Darge and Boyle to step into the place Crosbie has been the last couple of years.

I think that it would be better if Watson and Mata were to go. Ritchie has a lot invested in him and should probably be Edinburgh captain next season.

Thanks to a big dollop of lottery money GB will field a 7s team all next season. Scott Forrest to coach the womans team.

Seems like a sensible business decision.

Big D wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:46 am Thanks to a big dollop of lottery money GB will field a 7s team all next season. Scott Forrest to coach the womans team.

Seems like a sensible business decision.

I hope it doesn’t end up England in all but name. English coach, majority English players and based in England. But it will.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:07 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:46 am Thanks to a big dollop of lottery money GB will field a 7s team all next season. Scott Forrest to coach the womans team.

Seems like a sensible business decision.

I hope it doesn’t end up England in all but name. English coach, majority English players and based in England. But it will.

If the guys playing 7s aren't good enough to crack the GB team then that is on them. The 7s players who have made a career out of 7s have had a decent run and those that have 15s ambitions will have a crack at Edinburgh and Glasgow.

I understand the romantic side of the 7s for us, but the money that funds that can be more effectively used elsewhere in the short term (pro sides, grass roots clubs etc). It has been two full seasons plus an aborted season since the 7s side made it higher than 10th in the rankings, and in truth bar a handful of good performances over the last 4.5 world series we have been very poor. At what point do we stop throwing good money after bad.

Other than "we founded the game" what benefit are we getting from our 7s team other than providing a decent lifestyle for some? Sure some come back and play 15s occasionally but the performance in the series is rubbish. Of course that is relatively speaking, but when the pro sides are faced with potentially losing Watson, Ritchie, Cummings, Jones and others I am not sure the SRU can really justify the money the sevens cost.

Sorry Big D but that’s a crock of shite. Firstly, we’ve seen with Lions selections, Team GB selections last time out and team selections for other sports that the quality of the individual is far from being the only selection criteria. Familiarity with other players and familiarity with coaches and coaches preferred playing style are also massive selection drivers and an English team will inevitably lead to any 50/50 going to the English selection.

On top of that, the reason our sevens squad hasn’t consistently placed higher is we use it as a development route for 15s. Off the top of my head I would say at least 5 current Scotland players have 7s to thank for their development at least in part. Beyond that, the pro squads are littered with players that have been on the 7s circuit. This is utterly vital to us with our small player pool and will be hugely detrimental if it is lost IMO. Given the cash involved is relatively tiny, there is no obvious other route that can achieve the same for so little cash.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:11 pm Sorry Big D but that’s a crock of shite. Firstly, we’ve seen with Lions selections, Team GB selections last time out and team selections for other sports that the quality of the individual is far from being the only selection criteria. Familiarity with other players and familiarity with coaches and coaches preferred playing style are also massive selection drivers and an English team will inevitably lead to any 50/50 going to the English selection.

On top of that, the reason our sevens squad hasn’t consistently placed higher is we use it as a development route for 15s. Off the top of my head I would say at least 5 current Scotland players have 7s to thank for their development at least in part. Beyond that, the pro squads are littered with players that have been on the 7s circuit. This is utterly vital to us with our small player pool and will be hugely detrimental if it is lost IMO. Given the cash involved is relatively tiny, there is no obvious other route that can achieve the same for so little cash.

Your seriously saying Horne, Graham, Kinghorn, Bradbury etc wouldn't have made it but for a few weeks on the 7s tour? Touring the world and getting pumped every week.

Of course they will be more English in the team, they have proven to be a better team. Scotland can barely get out a group in the 7s.

We are faced with losing many of our best players. The cost of the 7s team in 2015 was estimated at 400k, probably higher now. Grass roots clubs and the pro sides could use that money over the next year. Sevens could be reestablished at that point.

Clearly in an ideal world we'd keep the 7s on. So would have England, many of there players have moved on.

The reality is all the SRU have taken pay cuts, we have a S6 that needs to get back up and running and for many years local clubs have tried to pick up the slack for lack of local council funding and they are now struggling.

Very few parts of what the SRU do should not.be under review, particular parts that can be temporarily mothballed and paid for by others.

Whatever our own views are on independence, if it does happen then this is obviously a short term measure.

https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/pro14/gu ... GD,18YZ7,1

All hail the Rainbow Cup

Jock42 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:09 pm https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/pro14/gu ... GD,18YZ7,1

All hail the Rainbow Cup

Wot?

Gave up trying to understand it

Jock42 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:09 pm https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/pro14/gu ... GD,18YZ7,1

All hail the Rainbow Cup

So, Pro16 coming next season then, but with the big saffer teams instead of the Cheetahs and the Kings.

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:20 pm

Jock42 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:09 pm https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/pro14/gu ... GD,18YZ7,1

All hail the Rainbow Cup

So, Pro16 coming next season then, but with the big saffer teams instead of the Cheetahs and the Kings.

So Challenge Cup for Glasgow in 21/22, plus both pro teams getting horsed by Saffer monsters on a weekly basis. Excellent, just what Scottish rugby needs.

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:20 pm

Jock42 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:09 pm https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/pro14/gu ... GD,18YZ7,1

All hail the Rainbow Cup

So, Pro16 coming next season then, but with the big saffer teams instead of the Cheetahs and the Kings.

Still feel it is a bit harsh on Cheetahs who were good value. Won't miss the Kings.

I'm generally in favour of this as it will increase the standard of the league overall and be an extra challenge in terms of styles of play.

Mike Adamson to ref a six nations game - firs Scot in 19 years to do so.

https://www.scottishrugby.org/news/adam ... tournament

Got to be honest I’ve never thought he was particularly good and some of his decision making in Edinburgh V Glasgow games has really got my goat up. But he’s moving up through the ranks, so that just goes to show I know f all about refereeing.

Ben Blain also running the line in the same game, England v Italy.

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:41 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:20 pm

Jock42 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:09 pm https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/pro14/gu ... GD,18YZ7,1

All hail the Rainbow Cup

So, Pro16 coming next season then, but with the big saffer teams instead of the Cheetahs and the Kings.

So Challenge Cup for Glasgow in 21/22, plus both pro teams getting horsed by Saffer monsters on a weekly basis. Excellent, just what Scottish rugby needs.

Looking on the bright side, Edinburgh should be in their new home, and the quality of the visiting opposition may result in larger crowds?

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 3:12 pm

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:41 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:20 pm

So, Pro16 coming next season then, but with the big saffer teams instead of the Cheetahs and the Kings.

So Challenge Cup for Glasgow in 21/22, plus both pro teams getting horsed by Saffer monsters on a weekly basis. Excellent, just what Scottish rugby needs.

Looking on the bright side, Edinburgh should be in their new home, and the quality of the visiting opposition may result in larger crowds?

Given the number of South Africans in Edinburgh most years, I reckon we’ll get good crowds for those games.

And if you get them to come once, then we can tempt them back again.

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:14 pm

Jock42 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:09 pm https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/pro14/gu ... GD,18YZ7,1

All hail the Rainbow Cup

Wot?

Gave up trying to understand it

Not really in favour of this at all. Possibly leading to; more flying, more games, more games with reduced strength teams and another cash grab.

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:19 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:14 pm

Jock42 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:09 pm https://www.pro14.rugby/latest/pro14/gu ... GD,18YZ7,1

All hail the Rainbow Cup

Wot?

Gave up trying to understand it

Not really in favour of this at all. Possibly leading to; more flying, more games, more games with reduced strength teams and another cash grab.

It'll be interesting to see just how big the cash prize is. The market has just grown 600% overnight. There are also a decent number of (wealthy) expat SAs in the UK (c.250k) which gives the potential for a bit of a following. I'm not sure I am convinced, but I'm certainly willing to give it a go. It's hard to complain when some of the best sides in the world are added to the league, and multiple world cup winners at that. I think it could be a bit difficult for the Scottish sides to compete, however if anything will give the Scottish players the hard edge we crave them to have, surely playing this lot 4-8 times a season will help!

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:11 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:19 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 1:14 pm

Wot?

Gave up trying to understand it

Not really in favour of this at all. Possibly leading to; more flying, more games, more games with reduced strength teams and another cash grab.

It'll be interesting to see just how big the cash prize is. The market has just grown 600% overnight. There are also a decent number of (wealthy) expat SAs in the UK (c.250k) which gives the potential for a bit of a following. I'm not sure I am convinced, but I'm certainly willing to give it a go. It's hard to complain when some of the best sides in the world are added to the league, and multiple world cup winners at that. I think it could be a bit difficult for the Scottish sides to compete, however if anything will give the Scottish players the hard edge we crave them to have, surely playing this lot 4-8 times a season will help!

That's part of the proxx problem. How often will the Edinburgh/Glasgow 1's, or 1b's be playing their Saffa equivalent? There are already too many games where it is pretty close to 2's/3's v 2's/3's.

They'll drop us like Leonardo Di Caprio drops a 30 year old as soon as they get the chance to play the English or French.

Rumours of Rory Sutherland moving to Worcester. With the Duhan rumour also still kicking around, did I miss the news that the SRU invested in them after all?

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:40 pm Rumours of Rory Sutherland moving to Worcester. With the Duhan rumour also still kicking around, did I miss the news that the SRU invested in them after all?

Surely there are better clubs available for these two? Be very frustrating to see them playing for a team at that level.

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:04 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:40 pm Rumours of Rory Sutherland moving to Worcester. With the Duhan rumour also still kicking around, did I miss the news that the SRU invested in them after all?

Surely there are better clubs available for these two? Be very frustrating to see them playing for a team at that level.

The Joys of not having a development, "Province".

The Welsh had Dragons, & the Irish have Connacht, & the Italians didn't have the player depth to need more that two teams & their academies; Scotland in the era of the Pro16; need a third team to provide a tier that keeps players within the SQ net.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:25 am

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:04 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:40 pm Rumours of Rory Sutherland moving to Worcester. With the Duhan rumour also still kicking around, did I miss the news that the SRU invested in them after all?

Surely there are better clubs available for these two? Be very frustrating to see them playing for a team at that level.

The Joys of not having a development, "Province".

The Welsh had Dragons, & the Irish have Connacht, & the Italians didn't have the player depth to need more that two teams & their academies; Scotland in the era of the Pro16; need a third team to provide a tier that keeps players within the SQ net.

You're preaching to the choir.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:36 am

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:25 am

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:04 pm

Surely there are better clubs available for these two? Be very frustrating to see them playing for a team at that level.

The Joys of not having a development, "Province".

The Welsh had Dragons, & the Irish have Connacht, & the Italians didn't have the player depth to need more that two teams & their academies; Scotland in the era of the Pro16; need a third team to provide a tier that keeps players within the SQ net.

You're preaching to the choir.

God, your shifts end at unsociable hours

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:29 am

Jock42 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:36 am

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:25 am

The Joys of not having a development, "Province".

The Welsh had Dragons, & the Irish have Connacht, & the Italians didn't have the player depth to need more that two teams & their academies; Scotland in the era of the Pro16; need a third team to provide a tier that keeps players within the SQ net.

You're preaching to the choir.

God, your shifts end at unsociable hours

Still got 45 minutes to go

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:21 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 6:11 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:19 pm

Not really in favour of this at all. Possibly leading to; more flying, more games, more games with reduced strength teams and another cash grab.

It'll be interesting to see just how big the cash prize is. The market has just grown 600% overnight. There are also a decent number of (wealthy) expat SAs in the UK (c.250k) which gives the potential for a bit of a following. I'm not sure I am convinced, but I'm certainly willing to give it a go. It's hard to complain when some of the best sides in the world are added to the league, and multiple world cup winners at that. I think it could be a bit difficult for the Scottish sides to compete, however if anything will give the Scottish players the hard edge we crave them to have, surely playing this lot 4-8 times a season will help!

That's part of the proxx problem. How often will the Edinburgh/Glasgow 1's, or 1b's be playing their Saffa equivalent? There are already too many games where it is pretty close to 2's/3's v 2's/3's.

I think I'll pretty much always book trips to watch the Sharks play in Glas/Emb. Hopefully take in Aberdeen games at the same time.

Much less inclined to visit Wales. Maybe Belfast.

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:04 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:40 pm Rumours of Rory Sutherland moving to Worcester. With the Duhan rumour also still kicking around, did I miss the news that the SRU invested in them after all?

Surely there are better clubs available for these two? Be very frustrating to see them playing for a team at that level.

They must be paying a decent whack but where has their money come from? I thought Worcester were broke.

Simon Thomas (a fairly prominent welsh rugby journalist) speculating that the SA teams will bring £800k to each of the regions. If that is the case, and the SRU share is equal (no reason to think it isn’t), an extra £1.6m per pro team is massive for us. It does make the speculation about the loss of guys like Duhan and Sutherland a bit surprising though.

robmatic wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 7:37 am

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:04 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:40 pm Rumours of Rory Sutherland moving to Worcester. With the Duhan rumour also still kicking around, did I miss the news that the SRU invested in them after all?

Surely there are better clubs available for these two? Be very frustrating to see them playing for a team at that level.

They must be paying a decent whack but where has their money come from? I thought Worcester were broke.

Have new owners as of 2019 and CVC cash too. Also the salaries VdM and Sutherland are on here won't be huge as VdM is young, Sutherland had bad injuries so won't be paid his current market value. So offering both an increase is a lot of money for the players but not in the grand scheme of things.

They won't be in the say Bill Mata sweepstakes.

As an aside, I heard that Cheetahs will be joining an unannounced tournament somewhat like the European Intercontinental Shield:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea ... tal_Shield

Given a 3rd pro team is a financial no-no currently (and we don’t have a good enough player base to support it in any case), it might actually be a decent option for the SRU to consider. Players at the upper end of super 6 and the lower end of the pro teams would get a decent test at this level. Guys like Murray McCallum should boss it where the likes of Rufus McLean would find it a decent challenge.

Scott Cummings agreed a new deal. No idea how long for as I'm too tight to pay for the article.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:13 pm Scott Cummings agreed a new deal. No idea how long for as I'm too tight to pay for the article.

The SRU have stopped releasing contract lengths (presumably either to limit the number of agents who know when our players contracts end, or possibly to limit the incessant whinging about player contacts expiring each year even though logically 30-50% will come up every year?) so just as well you didn’t pay.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:30 pm

Jock42 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:13 pm Scott Cummings agreed a new deal. No idea how long for as I'm too tight to pay for the article.

The SRU have stopped releasing contract lengths (presumably either to limit the number of agents who know when our players contracts end, or possibly to limit the incessant whinging about player contacts expiring each year even though logically 30-50% will come up every year?) so just as well you didn’t pay.

No chance it's about the agents and clubs as all any agent or club would have to do to know Cummings' length of contract is ask his agent. And it's in Cummings' agents interest for relevant parties to know those details.

It is likely to stop the whineging from the press although how not disclosing the lengths is a better tactic I'll never know.

Glasgow must have a big old signing lined up or else the SRU are proper fucked. Glenn Bryce the latest to be leaving. When the back-up, back-up full back becomes first choice and then you let him leave for an MLR contract you had better have something up your sleeve...and it had better not be playing your international class centre at 15!

He needs to be starting games to develop - will be interesting to see what position he ends up in. 13 is where he's looked at his best IMO.

Hasn't he also said 10 is where he wants to play?

I'm assuming its 12 hes been signed as.

What he says and what he's best at are probably very different things!