Stop voting for fucking Tories

[Tichtheid]

Indeed, it will certainly tarnish his halo!
This whole "Inquiry" will end up just like the inquiry into bully in chief Patel........nothing will come of it

What makes you think that?

[SaintK]

Indeed, it will certainly tarnish his halo!
This whole "Inquiry" will end up just like the inquiry into bully in chief Patel........nothing will come of it

What makes you think that?

The government has rejected Labour's call for a full parliamentary inquiry into lobbying and the contacts between government and Greensill Capital.
Boris Johnson has launched a review by a government lawyer into the finance firm's links to David Cameron and top civil servants in his administration.
Labour wants a broader inquiry into lobbying by a cross-party panel of MPs.
The government says its review is the "right thing to do" and will order Tory MPs to vote against Labour's plan.

[Insane_Homer]

[tabascoboy]

The government has rejected Labour's call for a full parliamentary inquiry into lobbying and the contacts between government and Greensill Capital.
Boris Johnson has launched a review by a government lawyer into the finance firm's links to David Cameron and top civil servants in his administration.
Labour wants a broader inquiry into lobbying by a cross-party panel of MPs.
The government says its review is the "right thing to do" and will order Tory MPs to vote against Labour's plan.

I think we can safely say that the results of the review will be "The rules need clarifying" with no actual outright suggestion of wrong-doing.

[Torquemada 1420]

Indeed, it will certainly tarnish his halo!
This whole "Inquiry" will end up just like the inquiry into bully in chief Patel........nothing will come of it

What makes you think that?

The tactics are clear. Go big, often and as fast as you can in the corruption stakes i.e.
- desensitise the public (whilst using COVID as a smoke screen)
- divide resources tasked with outing malfeasance
- get booted out at the next election but leave with bulging pockets

[Rinkals]

Indeed, it will certainly tarnish his halo!
This whole "Inquiry" will end up just like the inquiry into bully in chief Patel........nothing will come of it

What makes you think that?

The tactics are clear. Go big, often and as fast as you can in the corruption stakes i.e.
- desensitise the public (whilst using COVID as a smoke screen)
- divide resources tasked with outing malfeasance
- get booted out at the next election but leave with bulging pockets

- Kick it into the long grass by holding an inquiry so you can say 'sub-judice' when questioned.

[Insane_Homer]

[shaggy]

Does this not belong in a different thread?

[SaintK]

.............and in only 10 years!

[Sandstorm]

.............and in only 10 years!

Things Labour Closed:

Iraq

[Hal Jordan]

.............and in only 10 years!

Also the District Probate Registries.

Three years ago I could have been confident in obtaining a Grant for a non-taxable estate in ten working days. Now? Lucky if it's two months. And God help you if you need to make an Inheritance Tax return to HMRC.

[Paddington Bear]

Building two bed flats is surely the worst possible option.

They might be more affordable initially; but you can't raise a family in one

1 billion families outside the UK disagree with you.

"3 bedrooms or I'm not interested!"

Ok your majesty!

It is not unreasonable to anticipate that if you study then work hard you can have a quality of life that at least resembles that of your parents. I wouldn't want to raise a family in a 2 bedroom flat, 1st world problems sure but 'someone from the developing world would bite your hand off for that' is a shit argument.

[Hal Jordan]

Some distant relatives of my wife came over from India to stay with her parents. They remarked that if the in laws house were in India, there would be 16 people sleeping in the living room space.

[Sandstorm]

Building two bed flats is surely the worst possible option.

They might be more affordable initially; but you can't raise a family in one

1 billion families outside the UK disagree with you.

"3 bedrooms or I'm not interested!"

Ok your majesty!

It is not unreasonable to anticipate that if you study then work hard you can have a quality of life that at least resembles that of your parents. I wouldn't want to raise a family in a 2 bedroom flat, 1st world problems sure but 'someone from the developing world would bite your hand off for that' is a shit argument.

Go back and read my original post. It’s about 1st time/young buyers. 10 years later they can move to Lewes and buy a 3 bed semi with a garden. Otherwise they’ll still be renting.

[fishfoodie]

1 billion families outside the UK disagree with you.

"3 bedrooms or I'm not interested!"

Ok your majesty!

It is not unreasonable to anticipate that if you study then work hard you can have a quality of life that at least resembles that of your parents. I wouldn't want to raise a family in a 2 bedroom flat, 1st world problems sure but 'someone from the developing world would bite your hand off for that' is a shit argument.

Go back and read my original post. It’s about 1st time/young buyers. 10 years later they can move to Lewes and buy a 3 bed semi with a garden. Otherwise they’ll still be renting.

Look at it this way; the average lifespan is ~80 years; for the first two decades you live with you parents, & siblings; then for say, a decade, you live can live comfortably in the 2 bed flat; but for the next ~5 decades, if you've kids, that 2-bed, just isn't going to cut it !

A damn sight more than 12.5% of properties being build are catering for the 12.5% of the average persons life, that it's of use.

Should also say that, one of the other issues the housing shortage in Ireland has highlighted is; the almost total lack of suitable accommodation for couples in that last decade of life; & as a result, they rattle around in the prime property that they raised the 4.5 kids in; instead of selling it on, & moving into comfortable, suitable, sheltered housing, & passing their family home onto a new family.

[salanya]

I definitely get people wanting decent sized houses for their families. But in rural areas there is definitely more of a lean towards building 4/5 bedrooms houses, which most younger people (under 45s) aren't going to be able to afford, unless they're very lucky to have 2 well-paying jobs (and probably had a big of a leg up from their parents).

Having more 2/3 bedroom houses would at least create more opportunities for more people to buy, and it would also make communities a bit more diverse. And as someone just added: it would also create housing for people of retirement age, who don't need 4/5/6 bedroom houses with big gardens anymore, but don't want to downsize to tiny flats with a shitty balcony at best.

Though the only housing that'll be built is the housing that will put the most money directly into Robert Jenrick's pockets (putting us back on topic here).

[Sandstorm]

Should also say that, one of the other issues the housing shortage in Ireland has highlighted is; the almost total lack of suitable accommodation for couples in that last decade of life; & as a result, they rattle around in the prime property that they raised the 4.5 kids in; instead of selling it on, & moving into comfortable, suitable, sheltered housing, & passing their family home onto a new family.

Now this I agree with! In South Africa they specifically build housing estates with good value 1-2 bed homes where people can retire to. There is onsite frail care and after you can’t look after yourself you move into the main building. There is onsite nursing, food, entertainment and even a bowling club and pool.

Nothing exists like that in UK.

[fishfoodie]

Should also say that, one of the other issues the housing shortage in Ireland has highlighted is; the almost total lack of suitable accommodation for couples in that last decade of life; & as a result, they rattle around in the prime property that they raised the 4.5 kids in; instead of selling it on, & moving into comfortable, suitable, sheltered housing, & passing their family home onto a new family.

Now this I agree with! In South Africa they specifically build housing estates with good value 1-2 bed homes where people can retire to. There is onsite frail care and after you can’t look after yourself you move into the main building. There is onsite nursing, food, entertainment and even a bowling club and pool.

Nothing exists like that in UK.

They used to piss off to Spain, Portugal or Greece; but Brexit has put paid to that gig

[Sandstorm]

Should also say that, one of the other issues the housing shortage in Ireland has highlighted is; the almost total lack of suitable accommodation for couples in that last decade of life; & as a result, they rattle around in the prime property that they raised the 4.5 kids in; instead of selling it on, & moving into comfortable, suitable, sheltered housing, & passing their family home onto a new family.

Now this I agree with! In South Africa they specifically build housing estates with good value 1-2 bed homes where people can retire to. There is onsite frail care and after you can’t look after yourself you move into the main building. There is onsite nursing, food, entertainment and even a bowling club and pool.

Nothing exists like that in UK.

They used to piss off to Spain, Portugal or Greece; but Brexit has put paid to that gig

Not quite. They all left at 65, then come back in their early 80s.

[fishfoodie]

Now this I agree with! In South Africa they specifically build housing estates with good value 1-2 bed homes where people can retire to. There is onsite frail care and after you can’t look after yourself you move into the main building. There is onsite nursing, food, entertainment and even a bowling club and pool.

Nothing exists like that in UK.

They used to piss off to Spain, Portugal or Greece; bu
t Brexit has put paid to that gig

Not quite. They all left at 65, then come back in their early 80s.

Regardless; it's a bloody excellent opportunity for the smarter investor; because the demographics in the UK & Ireland, & elsewhere show this as a demand that right now isn't being properly catered for, & which is growing. I keep on looking around for investment options in this area, because I'm convinced it's a gold mine.

[tabascoboy]

Actually, in my locale at least, there is an increasing number of new 1 - 2 bedroom retirement apartments available for sale with reduction for over 60s or lifelong lease agreement. Not everyone wishes to live in an apartment building of course with no garden, shared common entrance etc but it is an option for some.

[Biffer]

People discussing house sizes as if that’s in the least bit relevant to the housing market and the short supply.

[Happyhooker]

People discussing house sizes as if that’s in the least bit relevant to the housing market and the short supply.

it's not a major factor, but it is a factor.

i'm privileged to have grown up in a lovely crescent in london zone 3 that has 48 double bay fronted detatched houses on it. 4 of those are hmos, the rest are single family houses of between 6 and 8 bedrooms. of those, i reckon 30+ are currently occupied by single couples or widows like my mother, all of them 75+ who bought in the late 70's early 80s

i know that's a tiny tiny sample and it won't affect the market atmo, but that's a symptomatic problem with the current situation.


oh, and paddington, i hate to agree with torq, but you're properly smoking crack here.

[Biffer]

People discussing house sizes as if that’s in the least bit relevant to the housing market and the short supply.

it's not a major factor, but it is a factor.

i'm privileged to have grown up in a lovely crescent in london zone 3 that has 48 double bay fronted detatched houses on it. 4 of those are hmos, the rest are single family houses of between 6 and 8 bedrooms. of those, i reckon 30+ are currently occupied by single couples or widows like my mother, all of them 75+ who bought in the late 70's early 80s

i know that's a tiny tiny sample and it won't affect the market atmo, but that's a symptomatic problem with the current situation.


oh, and paddington, i hate to agree with torq, but you're properly smoking crack here.

It’s tinkering at the edges. If we don’t acknowledge and change the underlying economics, it’ll never change. But forty years of this has set us up for a devastating fall in prices. Our entire economy has been based on this house of cards, and it’s getting worse off the back of Brexit, as other industry sectors are being hollowed out (manufacturing, food, financial services). The government can’t admit to forty years of economic dope smoking, so it’ll just continue.

Your kids won’t be able to buy houses, they’ll just have their money stripped into the pockets of the asset rich.

[Paddington Bear]

1 billion families outside the UK disagree with you.

"3 bedrooms or I'm not interested!"

Ok your majesty!

It is not unreasonable to anticipate that if you study then work hard you can have a quality of life that at least resembles that of your parents. I wouldn't want to raise a family in a 2 bedroom flat, 1st world problems sure but 'someone from the developing world would bite your hand off for that' is a shit argument.

Go back and read my original post. It’s about 1st time/young buyers. 10 years later they can move to Lewes and buy a 3 bed semi with a garden. Otherwise they’ll still be renting.

This is fine, except first time buyers are increasingly in their 30s, late 20s at a push. I.e. the age you generally look to start a family.

[Paddington Bear]

People discussing house sizes as if that’s in the least bit relevant to the housing market and the short supply.

it's not a major factor, but it is a factor.

i'm privileged to have grown up in a lovely crescent in london zone 3 that has 48 double bay fronted detatched houses on it. 4 of those are hmos, the rest are single family houses of between 6 and 8 bedrooms. of those, i reckon 30+ are currently occupied by single couples or widows like my mother, all of them 75+ who bought in the late 70's early 80s

i know that's a tiny tiny sample and it won't affect the market atmo, but that's a symptomatic problem with the current situation.


oh, and paddington, i hate to agree with torq, but you're properly smoking crack here.

I'm genuinely fascinated by the sincerely held belief among a lot of people that if we ran a house building surplus of, say, 100,000 homes a year for 5 years house prices wouldn't fall. It's like people have swallowed a belief that current prices reflect some sort of intrinsic value.

[Tichtheid]

From a property site


What's the average house price in Lewes?
The average price for property in Lewes stood at £540,462 in April 2021. This is a fall of 0.68% in the last three months (since January 2021) and rise of 4.68% since 12 months ago. In terms of property types, flats in Lewes sold for an average of £311,192 and terraced houses for £654,842. This is according to the current Zoopla estimates.

[Sandstorm]

People discussing house sizes as if that’s in the least bit relevant to the housing market and the short supply.

it's not a major factor, but it is a factor.

i'm privileged to have grown up in a lovely crescent in london zone 3 that has 48 double bay fronted detatched houses on it. 4 of those are hmos, the rest are single family houses of between 6 and 8 bedrooms. of those, i reckon 30+ are currently occupied by single couples or widows like my mother, all of them 75+ who bought in the late 70's early 80s

i know that's a tiny tiny sample and it won't affect the market atmo, but that's a symptomatic problem with the current situation.


oh, and paddington, i hate to agree with torq, but you're properly smoking crack here.

Cha-ching for you in a few years time.

[Calculon]

Should also say that, one of the other issues the housing shortage in Ireland has highlighted is; the almost total lack of suitable accommodation for couples in that last decade of life; & as a result, they rattle around in the prime property that they raised the 4.5 kids in; instead of selling it on, & moving into comfortable, suitable, sheltered housing, & passing their family home onto a new family.

Now this I agree with! In South Africa they specifically build housing estates with good value 1-2 bed homes where people can retire to. There is onsite frail care and after you can’t look after yourself you move into the main building. There is onsite nursing, food, entertainment and even a bowling club and pool.

Nothing exists like that in UK.

Many years ago I was looking to rent and I saw this fantastic apartment at amazing value. When I phoned the landlord he told me it was a retirement complex

[Torquemada 1420]

I don't get why the graph is relevant.

Quite.

Interested in your response to this part:
'We have a deficit of over 100,000 homes a year compared to demand. Are you seriously saying that if we ran a surplus of the same for five years prices wouldn't fall?'

This is like the old days of debates with DaveS: the nicest guy on the board but sometimes couldn't get a concept if you'd had his attention until the return of the Great Prophet Zarquon.

It's not simply about demand and supply. Forget


I'll try and simplify. There are other factors involved. Think of a boat rowing against the flow of the river: yes, eventually with enough rowers you'd overcome the water pressure. But you've ignored the hurricane blowing against you.

In this case the hurricane is cheap credit in the hands of the wrong people. In the run up to the 2008 crash we saw
- BTL mortgages being offered (in effect) up to 110% of the value of the property. Think about that: the bank would lend you more than the property was worth. Rationale being house prices were rising so fast (errr........ wonder why?) that in a few months they figured they'd have enough security. Right up to the point where they didn't.
- BTL borrowers required ZERO income to obtain the loan. This is unlike a home buyer who is always limited by some multiple of income. I saw overseas students buying 5 bed properties to rent out. How is this possible? It's because the borrowing was based on the prospective rent to be achieved on the property (the forecast AST..... none of which were scrutinised anyway). Now you've broken the affordability link entirely because a larger house = more rooms = more tenants (now called HMOs) = more income. In theory you could have no income and buy Buckingham Palace to rent out to Albanians. This is unlike real buyers who are constricted by their actual EARNED income.
- and as interest rates fell, the profits from BTL rose and so the demand rose inexorably.

The relevance of the graph is the shift in % ownership from home owners to private landlords. DESPITE the f**king huge amount of house building going on.... or, partly because of it.

In fact, DEMAND for home owners has fallen because they can't raise the deposits needed or attain the income multiples required. It's a vicious circle of:
bad lending policy --> skews market in favour of BTL landlords --> forces house prices up --> prospective home owners can't afford to buy --> have to go into rented --> demand for rented rises --> rents rise above earnings --> more BTL buyers enter the market + fewer wannabe home owners are able to do so because their rents are eating away any prospects of saving a deposit

Do you get it now? Yes, there is a theoretical point (ceteris paribus) whereby if you built soooooooooooo many houses that you could engender a collapse but that is a f**king mile past the healthy, optimal point in the UK housing market. What is needed (and by accident is coming) are changes in the way the whole market operates in order that houses become homes again and not investments.

[Torquemada 1420]

I'm genuinely fascinated by the sincerely held belief among a lot of people that if we ran a house building surplus of, say, 100,000 homes a year for 5 years house prices wouldn't fall. It's like people have swallowed a belief that current prices reflect some sort of intrinsic value.

Mother of god.

The logic fail here is in your grasp of the context of "surplus". Please read post above ^^^^ and the friggin' link to the BofE article.

[shaggy]

I'm genuinely fascinated by the sincerely held belief among a lot of people that if we ran a house building surplus of, say, 100,000 homes a year for 5 years house prices wouldn't fall. It's like people have swallowed a belief that current prices reflect some sort of intrinsic value.

Mother of god.

The logic fail here is in your grasp of the context of "surplus". Please read post above ^^^^ and the friggin' link to the BofE article.

And how is all of this a Tory Scum topic?

[Torquemada 1420]

And how is all of this a Tory Scum topic?

I've lost the will to live so can't recall why this subject arose.

[SaintK]

Witch from Witham being wicked again!

A landmark court ruling has held the home secretary, Priti Patel, accountable for failures in ensuring that deaths in immigration detention centres are properly investigated.
Two judges in the immigration court ruled on Wednesday that three of the home secretary’s detention policies breached human rights rules and that she could not frustrate or undermine inquiries into these deaths.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/20 ... ts-rules

[Happyhooker]

People discussing house sizes as if that’s in the least bit relevant to the housing market and the short supply.

it's not a major factor, but it is a factor.

i'm privileged to have grown up in a lovely crescent in london zone 3 that has 48 double bay fronted detatched houses on it. 4 of those are hmos, the rest are single family houses of between 6 and 8 bedrooms. of those, i reckon 30+ are currently occupied by single couples or widows like my mother, all of them 75+ who bought in the late 70's early 80s

i know that's a tiny tiny sample and it won't affect the market atmo, but that's a symptomatic problem with the current situation.


oh, and paddington, i hate to agree with torq, but you're properly smoking crack here.

Cha-ching for you in a few years time.

Just got to subtly bump off my 3 sisters.

[Slick]

the rest are single family houses of between 6 and 8 bedrooms

Christ, you must really be the black sheep of the family.

[ScarfaceClaw]

Witch from Witham being wicked again!

A landmark court ruling has held the home secretary, Priti Patel, accountable for failures in ensuring that deaths in immigration detention centres are properly investigated.
Two judges in the immigration court ruled on Wednesday that three of the home secretary’s detention policies breached human rights rules and that she could not frustrate or undermine inquiries into these deaths.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/20 ... ts-rules

She’s not the nicest person in the world is she.

[Happyhooker]

the rest are single family houses of between 6 and 8 bedrooms

Christ, you must really be the black sheep of the family.

Not when I've bumped off the rest of them

[Insane_Homer]

[Insane_Homer]

When you accidently out yourself.