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The disgraced Conservative peer Michelle Mone and her husband have reportedly had about £75m of assets frozen or restrained by a court order.

The pair face an investigation by the National Crime Agency into alleged medical equipment fraud. The Financial Times reported that the frozen assets included a six-bedroom central London townhouse, a country estate on the Isle of Man, and 15 accounts with Coutts, C Hoare & Co and Goldman Sachs International.

inactionman wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:30 am I initially assumed all the fuss over Michelle Mone would blow over and she'd just ride it out like so many others.

It's looking increasingly likely that might not be the case.

The disgraced Conservative peer Michelle Mone and her husband have reportedly had about £75m of assets frozen or restrained by a court order.

The pair face an investigation by the National Crime Agency into alleged medical equipment fraud. The Financial Times reported that the frozen assets included a six-bedroom central London townhouse, a country estate on the Isle of Man, and 15 accounts with Coutts, C Hoare & Co and Goldman Sachs International.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ates-fraud

There's a part of me that wonders if she's getting it in the neck as she's not part of the old money school-tie brigade, but she is pretty awful - and the sheer cynicism and shit-headedness of defrauding the NHS during the covid pandemic still sickens (pardon pun). She's not even a particularly good businesswoman, her companies generally made significant losses and she just flogged it off - at least Rees-Mogg can turn his opportunism to raising a few bob.

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:34 am

inactionman wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:30 am I initially assumed all the fuss over Michelle Mone would blow over and she'd just ride it out like so many others.

It's looking increasingly likely that might not be the case.

The disgraced Conservative peer Michelle Mone and her husband have reportedly had about £75m of assets frozen or restrained by a court order.

The pair face an investigation by the National Crime Agency into alleged medical equipment fraud. The Financial Times reported that the frozen assets included a six-bedroom central London townhouse, a country estate on the Isle of Man, and 15 accounts with Coutts, C Hoare & Co and Goldman Sachs International.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ates-fraud

There's a part of me that wonders if she's getting it in the neck as she's not part of the old money school-tie brigade, but she is pretty awful - and the sheer cynicism and shit-headedness of defrauding the NHS during the covid pandemic still sickens (pardon pun). She's not even a particularly good businesswoman, her companies generally made significant losses and she just flogged it off - at least Rees-Mogg can turn his opportunism to raising a few bob.

Hopefully she’s not just the fall guy and the other fraudulent/incompetent activities of that time will be made public too

inactionman wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:38 am

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:34 am

inactionman wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:30 am I initially assumed all the fuss over Michelle Mone would blow over and she'd just ride it out like so many others.

It's looking increasingly likely that might not be the case.



https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ates-fraud

There's a part of me that wonders if she's getting it in the neck as she's not part of the old money school-tie brigade, but she is pretty awful - and the sheer cynicism and shit-headedness of defrauding the NHS during the covid pandemic still sickens (pardon pun). She's not even a particularly good businesswoman, her companies generally made significant losses and she just flogged it off - at least Rees-Mogg can turn his opportunism to raising a few bob.

Hopefully she’s not just the fall guy and the other fraudulent/incompetent activities of that time will be made public too

I'd love to get her into an enquiry (or, better, trial) and let her rip on all the others.

Her peerage suggests she might know where a few bodies are buried, seeing as she didn't get it on merit (see Douglas Anderson's letter to Cameron decrying the award)

Slick wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:45 am

inactionman wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:38 am

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:34 am


Hopefully she’s not just the fall guy and the other fraudulent/incompetent activities of that time will be made public too

I'd love to get her into an enquiry (or, better, trial) and let her rip on all the others.

Her peerage suggests she might know where a few bodies are buried, seeing as she didn't get it on merit (see Douglas Anderson's letter to Cameron decrying the award)

Private Eye have a massive list of similar companies doing similar things but not sure what stage any of them are at in terms of legal.

Mone may have been able to make it fade into the background and cut some kind of deal if her and her husband hadn't decided to be such utter wankers publicly.

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:34 am

inactionman wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:30 am I initially assumed all the fuss over Michelle Mone would blow over and she'd just ride it out like so many others.

It's looking increasingly likely that might not be the case.

The disgraced Conservative peer Michelle Mone and her husband have reportedly had about £75m of assets frozen or restrained by a court order.

The pair face an investigation by the National Crime Agency into alleged medical equipment fraud. The Financial Times reported that the frozen assets included a six-bedroom central London townhouse, a country estate on the Isle of Man, and 15 accounts with Coutts, C Hoare & Co and Goldman Sachs International.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ates-fraud

There's a part of me that wonders if she's getting it in the neck as she's not part of the old money school-tie brigade, but she is pretty awful - and the sheer cynicism and shit-headedness of defrauding the NHS during the covid pandemic still sickens (pardon pun). She's not even a particularly good businesswoman, her companies generally made significant losses and she just flogged it off - at least Rees-Mogg can turn his opportunism to raising a few bob.

Hopefully she’s not just the fall guy and the other fraudulent/incompetent activities of that time will be made public too

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:34 am

inactionman wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:30 am I initially assumed all the fuss over Michelle Mone would blow over and she'd just ride it out like so many others.

It's looking increasingly likely that might not be the case.

The disgraced Conservative peer Michelle Mone and her husband have reportedly had about £75m of assets frozen or restrained by a court order.

The pair face an investigation by the National Crime Agency into alleged medical equipment fraud. The Financial Times reported that the frozen assets included a six-bedroom central London townhouse, a country estate on the Isle of Man, and 15 accounts with Coutts, C Hoare & Co and Goldman Sachs International.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ates-fraud

There's a part of me that wonders if she's getting it in the neck as she's not part of the old money school-tie brigade, but she is pretty awful - and the sheer cynicism and shit-headedness of defrauding the NHS during the covid pandemic still sickens (pardon pun). She's not even a particularly good businesswoman, her companies generally made significant losses and she just flogged it off - at least Rees-Mogg can turn his opportunism to raising a few bob.

Hopefully she’s not just the fall guy and the other fraudulent/incompetent activities of that time will be made public too

I like neeps wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:54 am

Slick wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:45 am

inactionman wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:38 am

I'd love to get her into an enquiry (or, better, trial) and let her rip on all the others.

Her peerage suggests she might know where a few bodies are buried, seeing as she didn't get it on merit (see Douglas Anderson's letter to Cameron decrying the award)

Private Eye have a massive list of similar companies doing similar things but not sure what stage any of them are at in terms of legal.

Mone may have been able to make it fade into the background and cut some kind of deal if her and her husband hadn't decided to be such utter wankers publicly.

She deserves her peerage for (inadvertently) bringing the corrupt practices of the conservative party into the open. We can finally see them concretely for what they are. A cabal of spivs gorging themselves at our expense.

Biffer wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:46 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:34 am

inactionman wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:30 am I initially assumed all the fuss over Michelle Mone would blow over and she'd just ride it out like so many others.

It's looking increasingly likely that might not be the case.



https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... ates-fraud

There's a part of me that wonders if she's getting it in the neck as she's not part of the old money school-tie brigade, but she is pretty awful - and the sheer cynicism and shit-headedness of defrauding the NHS during the covid pandemic still sickens (pardon pun). She's not even a particularly good businesswoman, her companies generally made significant losses and she just flogged it off - at least Rees-Mogg can turn his opportunism to raising a few bob.

Hopefully she’s not just the fall guy and the other fraudulent/incompetent activities of that time will be made public too

That's my worry. The govt will give it 'look we chased down fraud, aren't you happy?' having made sure that the one thrown to the wolves isn't one of them (i.e. private school, Oxbridge, old money kind of chaps, proper upbringing, not commoners).

Fortunately, Mone looks like she's very prepared to go down all guns blazing and take some of the fuckers with her.

Slick wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:59 pm

Biffer wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:46 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 11:34 am


Hopefully she’s not just the fall guy and the other fraudulent/incompetent activities of that time will be made public too

That's my worry. The govt will give it 'look we chased down fraud, aren't you happy?' having made sure that the one thrown to the wolves isn't one of them (i.e. private school, Oxbridge, old money kind of chaps, proper upbringing, not commoners).

Fortunately, Mone looks like she's very prepared to go down all guns blazing and take some of the fuckers with her.

Most of the abusers that the Eye have uncovered definitely do not fit in that category, most seem to be wide boys

fishfoodie wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 2:20 pm

Slick wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:59 pm

Biffer wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:46 pm

That's my worry. The govt will give it 'look we chased down fraud, aren't you happy?' having made sure that the one thrown to the wolves isn't one of them (i.e. private school, Oxbridge, old money kind of chaps, proper upbringing, not commoners).

Fortunately, Mone looks like she's very prepared to go down all guns blazing and take some of the fuckers with her.

Most of the abusers that the Eye have uncovered definitely do not fit in that category, most seem to be wide boys

By volume, or amount grifted ?

I can see the wide boys happily grifting 10's of K, but you had to be connected to get onto the VIP lane & make millions with a company they only existed a week or two.

fishfoodie wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 2:20 pm

Slick wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:59 pm

Biffer wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:46 pm

That's my worry. The govt will give it 'look we chased down fraud, aren't you happy?' having made sure that the one thrown to the wolves isn't one of them (i.e. private school, Oxbridge, old money kind of chaps, proper upbringing, not commoners).

Fortunately, Mone looks like she's very prepared to go down all guns blazing and take some of the fuckers with her.

Most of the abusers that the Eye have uncovered definitely do not fit in that category, most seem to be wide boys

By volume, or amount grifted ?

I can see the wide boys happily grifting 10's of K, but you had to be connected to get onto the VIP lane & make millions with a company they only existed a week or two.

Slick wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 2:53 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 2:20 pm

Slick wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:59 pm

Most of the abusers that the Eye have uncovered definitely do not fit in that category, most seem to be wide boys

By volume, or amount grifted ?

I can see the wide boys happily grifting 10's of K, but you had to be connected to get onto the VIP lane & make millions with a company they only existed a week or two.

No, you didn't. Lots and lots of examples of punters doing the same. I'm sure the guy that made the most of any UK company was a Spanish teacher or something. The majority were either new companies or companies that had turnover in the £10's of thousands and suddenly £100M. You needed to get to the VIP lanes, but I am sure there were a few people making intros and taking a cut, in fact I know there was.

Wasn't the landlord of Matt Hancocks local making millions from it?

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 2:40 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 2:20 pm

Slick wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 1:59 pm

Most of the abusers that the Eye have uncovered definitely do not fit in that category, most seem to be wide boys

By volume, or amount grifted ?

I can see the wide boys happily grifting 10's of K, but you had to be connected to get onto the VIP lane & make millions with a company they only existed a week or two.

I suppose it’s comforting to pretend we still live in 1950. Mone & Barrowman got in the VIP LANE and are both Glaswegian. The old school tie ain’t what it used to be

C69 wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 3:01 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 2:40 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 2:20 pm

By volume, or amount grifted ?

I can see the wide boys happily grifting 10's of K, but you had to be connected to get onto the VIP lane & make millions with a company they only existed a week or two.

I suppose it’s comforting to pretend we still live in 1950. Mone & Barrowman got in the VIP LANE and are both Glaswegian. The old school tie ain’t what it used to be

Not really comforting tbh money trumps the old school tie in the new Tory Party.

Biffer wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 3:19 pm

C69 wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 3:01 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 2:40 pm

I suppose it’s comforting to pretend we still live in 1950. Mone & Barrowman got in the VIP LANE and are both Glaswegian. The old school tie ain’t what it used to be

Not really comforting tbh money trumps the old school tie in the new Tory Party.

When it comes to making money, and grifting, absolutely. But when the shit hits the fan they're protecting their own, and that's still the old school tie set.

Biffer wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 3:19 pm

C69 wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 3:01 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 2:40 pm

I suppose it’s comforting to pretend we still live in 1950. Mone & Barrowman got in the VIP LANE and are both Glaswegian. The old school tie ain’t what it used to be

Not really comforting tbh money trumps the old school tie in the new Tory Party.

When it comes to making money, and grifting, absolutely. But when the shit hits the fan they're protecting their own, and that's still the old school tie set.

Michelle Mone’s former lawyer is demanding that she apologise and make a donation to a charity for allegedly inflicting “severe and irreparable damage” to his reputation by suggesting he had advised her to tell lies.

Jonathan Coad, a media lawyer and commentator, threatened to issue a preliminary letter for a libel claim against the Conservative peer. In a letter seen by the Guardian, he accused her and her husband of having “abused the hard-won reputation and standing that I enjoyed in the media industry by instructing me repeatedly to disseminate lies”.

inactionman wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 6:48 pm Seems like a good idea to put some distance between yourself and Mone/Barrowman

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... reputation

Michelle Mone’s former lawyer is demanding that she apologise and make a donation to a charity for allegedly inflicting “severe and irreparable damage” to his reputation by suggesting he had advised her to tell lies.

Jonathan Coad, a media lawyer and commentator, threatened to issue a preliminary letter for a libel claim against the Conservative peer. In a letter seen by the Guardian, he accused her and her husband of having “abused the hard-won reputation and standing that I enjoyed in the media industry by instructing me repeatedly to disseminate lies”.

I'm no political analyst, but I'd say sharks are beginning to circle and the life rafts are drifting away.

inactionman wrote: Fri Jan 26, 2024 6:48 pm Seems like a good idea to put some distance between yourself and Mone/Barrowman

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... reputation

Michelle Mone’s former lawyer is demanding that she apologise and make a donation to a charity for allegedly inflicting “severe and irreparable damage” to his reputation by suggesting he had advised her to tell lies.

Jonathan Coad, a media lawyer and commentator, threatened to issue a preliminary letter for a libel claim against the Conservative peer. In a letter seen by the Guardian, he accused her and her husband of having “abused the hard-won reputation and standing that I enjoyed in the media industry by instructing me repeatedly to disseminate lies”.

I'm no political analyst, but I'd say sharks are beginning to circle and the life rafts are drifting away.

_Os_ wrote: Sat Jan 27, 2024 7:59 pm Why the fuck are Tories starting to openly support Trump?

Truss did months back already. Johnson has an article in the Mail, Frost in the Telegraph, some Tory MP on Peston. In both the Johnson and Frost articles they seemed mostly concerned about "triggering the liberals", supporting Trump was worth it to annoy their opponents. Is that all it's about? Importing the most moronic urges of US politics into the UK, making any immensely damaging thing acceptable as long as your opponent gets mad?

A Trump second term would be extremely bad for the UK.

Cutting Ukraine off is becoming a central Trump campaign pledge, Trump wants the US to quit NATO, and if Taiwan is attacked he would let it burn (because of some nonsense about Taiwan stealing US jobs). Big Dog claims Trump will keep supporting Ukraine, when there's zero evidence Trump will support Ukraine, Republicans on team Trump in Congress are already blocking aid for Ukraine.

What Trump means for UK is the following (I don't think he'll win, but I'm not supporting him unlike two former PMs):

1. Europe (which will include the UK under any likely PM) having to support Ukraine on its own without the US. Ukraine probably doesn't completely collapse, but the situation becomes much worse for Ukraine.
2. Russia annexes Belarus. This is already underway, and can be done without much pushback Belarus already being a dictatorship inside the Russian sphere etc. Doing this moves Russia further into the rogue state category, making containment through sanctions or diplomacy less likely.
3. If the US is still in NATO or not, it becomes obvious Trump will ignore European security. Trump would be attempting to force a Ukrainian surrender and getting frustrated it isn't happening, if he even cared at all.
4. Europe is now stretched having to support Ukraine, and defend Polish/Baltic borders with Belarus/Russia. In 2025-2028 (the potential Trump term) Putin moves on the Baltics in a broad full scale ground invasion. The Russian troops/equipment/tactics are the same shit we've seen in Ukraine, but there's a lot of it and the Baltics are geographically smaller than Ukraine with much smaller populations (6m people). Even with Russia's awful force projection Vilnius is near the Belarus border and would immediately be sieged, given Russia's performance in Ukraine maybe Tallinn and Riga would do better. Europe's stockpile of armaments is all used in about a month (mostly from airstrikes). Europe isn't equipped/ready for a conventional full scale ground war against Russia at the same intensity as in Ukraine, so doesn't fully engage on the ground. Once Russia has the southern part of Lithuania (which Vilnius is in) there's no land resupply route for the Baltics. In every wargame I've seen of a Russian invasion of the Baltics, Lithuania doesn't last long, and resupply/manpower/geography issues means it ends in something like a US marines last stand in Riga (but with Trump there's no US marines).
5. If that came to pass Ukraine would collapse at some point after x years, even hard bastards need ammo. The next target would be Moldova which has no military worth mentioning. By this point every European economy would have taxes and debt through the roof and wartime levels of defence spending, in preparation for defending Poland.

This isn't outlandish. 1 and 2 are already happening. 3 is what Trump says. 4 and 5 are the logical outcome given Russia's/Putin's position and 1/2/3 being in place.

If you're in Europe supporting Trump is incredibly stupid.

_Os_ wrote: Sat Jan 27, 2024 7:59 pm Why the fuck are Tories starting to openly support Trump?

One lecturer from a London university, speaking anonymously, said the poor English of some overseas students was affecting teaching: “They might struggle to keep up on the courses, especially with the written work, and this can mean more work for me and a slower pace for the rest of the students in the class.”

Insane_Homer wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 8:34 am

_Os_ wrote: Sat Jan 27, 2024 7:59 pm Why the fuck are Tories starting to openly support Trump?

Follow the $$$ back to Putin

sockwithaticket wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 11:40 am

One lecturer from a London university, speaking anonymously, said the poor English of some overseas students was affecting teaching: “They might struggle to keep up on the courses, especially with the written work, and this can mean more work for me and a slower pace for the rest of the students in the class.”

Obviously the unfairness of such disparate entry requirements is ridiculous, but this is perhaps worse.

15 years ago a mate of mine doing engineering basically did a three person project on his own because he got saddled with a couple of Asian students who could barely read and write English (personal grades suffering because of rubbish group partners is a general educational bugbear), it can only have gotten worse since then given the exponential increase in these substandard foreign students being waived through into classes.

There's a reason we set for ability at secondary level and it's completely antithetical to the purpose of higher education to effectively stop doing so at tertiary level.

_Os_ wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 11:41 am

Insane_Homer wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 8:34 am

_Os_ wrote: Sat Jan 27, 2024 7:59 pm Why the fuck are Tories starting to openly support Trump?

Follow the $$$ back to Putin

Only really works with Big Dog, his Russia links are well known, if the FSB have anything on him it probably can't be used to control him as what could possibly ruin his reputation?
Frost, I'm unaware of any Russian links.
Truss, is strongly linked to the IEA and whatever dark money sits behind that (the known ones are US oil and cigarette businesses/US billionaires). Her motivations are always short term and mercenary. She spent August last year lobbying for UK defence industry products to be exported to China, so a business in her constituency could make money:
https://www.politico.eu/article/liz-tru ... rts-china/

It just looks like the Tories are being sucked into Republican radical right positions without much thought being applied. The Tory MP on Peston supporting Trump looked a lot like that. Jenrick's latest Telegraph article looked like that too, in it he said "McCarthy was correct" (he wasn't, he found no communist agents) and offered a defence of McCarthyism, trying to rehabilitate McCarthy is a US radical right thing. The Trump stuff about "the swamp" is the same as Tory attacks on "the blob", which really means a civil service being asked to do impossible things and not being able to.

Trump polls very badly in the UK, not a good idea to come out for him (Badenoch blaming Biden for there being no trade deal with the US, could also be interpreted that way). There's zero advantage for them in publicly backing Trump, yet that is what they're doing. There's a strong chance both the US and UK elections will be held at the same time, "who do you support in the US election?" is something that will be asked during the campaign, if the answer isn't some version of "that's not for me to say it's for the American people" then the Tories have manufactured a way to lose votes.

Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 10:39 am World leading university sector latest:

https://archive.ph/bRQoL

Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:42 pm Every time we discuss this you bring up the financing, every time you get told those of us who think this is a problem are happy to see some universities fold rather than let this persist. I am aware of the finances, I am also conscious that our reputation for high quality education is made a mockery of by this system, and it now exists at such an extent it may well drag the whole system down with it.

petej wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 2:01 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:42 pm Every time we discuss this you bring up the financing, every time you get told those of us who think this is a problem are happy to see some universities fold rather than let this persist. I am aware of the finances, I am also conscious that our reputation for high quality education is made a mockery of by this system, and it now exists at such an extent it may well drag the whole system down with it.

We have an over supply issue in certain areas.

Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:42 pm Every time we discuss this you bring up the financing, every time you get told those of us who think this is a problem are happy to see some universities fold rather than let this persist. I am aware of the finances, I am also conscious that our reputation for high quality education is made a mockery of by this system, and it now exists at such an extent it may well drag the whole system down with it.

Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:42 pm Every time we discuss this you bring up the financing, every time you get told those of us who think this is a problem are happy to see some universities fold rather than let this persist. I am aware of the finances, I am also conscious that our reputation for high quality education is made a mockery of by this system, and it now exists at such an extent it may well drag the whole system down with it.

Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 2:05 pm

petej wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 2:01 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:42 pm Every time we discuss this you bring up the financing, every time you get told those of us who think this is a problem are happy to see some universities fold rather than let this persist. I am aware of the finances, I am also conscious that our reputation for high quality education is made a mockery of by this system, and it now exists at such an extent it may well drag the whole system down with it.

We have an over supply issue in certain areas.

No doubt at all. There’s only so many grad jobs in our economy

_Os_ wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 2:12 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:42 pm Every time we discuss this you bring up the financing, every time you get told those of us who think this is a problem are happy to see some universities fold rather than let this persist. I am aware of the finances, I am also conscious that our reputation for high quality education is made a mockery of by this system, and it now exists at such an extent it may well drag the whole system down with it.

I think I've pointed it out once or twice?

Exeter was mentioned in the article, lets hypothetically say it goes bust because without foreign students the finance model doesn't work. Do you think it's allowed to fold, how much of a free market do you think it really is? Probably the government step in and dictate what the banks can or can't do (jobs, the local community, etc), it's cut to the bone and continues as a much weaker institution. Anyone with an Exeter degree is also potentially downgraded over time (mileage may vary depending on work experience etc).

The other way "let them fold" doesn't work, is you still need a new funding model to maintain the unis without foreign students. Which unless you're pushing for government ownership (are you?) means higher UK student fees. The average UK house price is £300k, average salary is £33k, average life time earnings is £600k. There's a maximum debt carrying capacity an average person can take. Lumping £45k+ of inflation linked student debt onto half the young population, to reduce foreign students, will likely have the unintended consequence of increasing immigration. Someone that indebted with likely limited earning power (only 10% earn £60k+), isn't having children or is emigrating, both will mean more immigration.

If your answer is no foreign students, no new government funding, and no increased UK student debt. Then the quality of UK education declines regardless, either outright (unis are lower quality) or relatively (less people go to uni). Guess how the UK government will fix that problem without funding unis more or increasing UK student debt? More immigrants.

Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 2:05 pm

petej wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 2:01 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 1:42 pm Every time we discuss this you bring up the financing, every time you get told those of us who think this is a problem are happy to see some universities fold rather than let this persist. I am aware of the finances, I am also conscious that our reputation for high quality education is made a mockery of by this system, and it now exists at such an extent it may well drag the whole system down with it.

We have an over supply issue in certain areas.

No doubt at all. There’s only so many grad jobs in our economy

sockwithaticket wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 2:37 pm Exeter is currently 15th out of 121 on the Guardian's table. It's not the likes of them that go under in a 'let them fold' situation, it's Bedfordshire, Westminster, De Montfort etc. who go.

As the article notes, UK student numbers going to university are falling. A lot of the work force areas with skill shortages don't need a degree and it seems some are waking up to that. The UK may be heavily service based, but those aren't the only decently to well paying jobs on offer.

On top of that employers for a long time now have been pitching sub-sub-median wage, entry level office jobs as requiring a degree when they simply don't. Those employers will have to adjust their requirements.