The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[I like neeps]

There certainly seems to be a bit of that going on - but that would have been said about Vellacott, who is to my way of seeing things right up there for selection for the AIs at the moment, early as it is in the season.

I don't know if it's the proximity to the SRU or if it's just plain hiring coaches who aren't up to the job, but in terms of the sum of the parts, Edinburgh play way less than it. There are good players there who have played well for Scotland or who are conspicuous by their absence in the international shirt, but who do not produce the goods at club level - Edinburgh could and should have won their first two games against seriously tough clubs, title contender teams who were fielding far from their first choices and were playing way below par.

Yet we fucked it again, a decent "team" would have been on nine points from those two games, we're on three.

It's beyond frustrating.

It is true of Vellacott too yes, I'd be surprised if he got in the Scotland 23 regularly. He'd just been released and so the SRU gave him a contract so he was an option for Scotland. He wasn't signed to improve Edinburgh. See also, recently retired Scott Steele. With Price that's most of the Edinburgh scrum halfs from this and last season.

It's because performance for Edinburgh isn't what gets them picked for Scotland. Their performances for Scotland are. It's hard to build a team when the priorities of the players aren't with that team they're with the international one.

All of that is true...but it's not meaningfully different at Glasgow; Scotland performances get you into the Scotland team, yet Glasgow appears to have a culture where even the most senior players are willing to give their absolute all for the club jersey. And that cannot be completely down to Franco Smith alone as it existed before him.

I'm guessing it might be something to do with culture leaders within the club not being regular Scotland starters - the likes of Al Kellock and Ryan Wilson got their caps, but were never really nailed on 1st XV guys - while being central to the culture at Glasgow. I'm not sure who their equivalents at Edinburgh were and are?

It's just a bit less true of Glasgow because as you say the culture leaders in the squad and also that club performances do matter. Hastings absolutely was an SRU signing, but he's going to have to play bloody well to play for Glasgow to get picked over Jordan. Kyle Rowe is the same and again, he's not a Glasgow starter and has to play really well to get in the squad. Rory Sutherland the same. The Scotland regulars at Glasgow can't coast as they always have someone to play, and more importantly the club will pick, over them.

[Tichtheid]

I think if there was a simple solution at Edinburgh someone would have found it by now, but I don't accept that the likes of Watson, Ritchie, Graham or Vellacott coast in games for Edinburgh. Perhaps vdMerwe has been guilty of it but not guys like the ones mentioned or WP Nel in the recent past or Luke Crosbie, ie the players who were nailed on for Scotland, anyone suggesting otherwise is looking for an easy answer to the problem.

Glasgow unearthed a gem in Tom Jordan, he was, is, a 12 that can play superbly at 10 - in recent years Edinburgh have gone through the likes of Jason Tovey, Jaco van Der Walt, Wee Greeg before that, I won't re-enact the Kinghorn at 10 wars just now, then we brought in a guy who couldn't make the shirt his own at Munster, now a guy who was in a similar position at Glasgow. Oh Wee Duncy too, another guy who was moved to give him game time.
Despite the wailings on the Weedgie board, the guys who move east along the M8 are on their way down - Bennett was dropped by Toonie because of his defence, the others can't get game time at Scotstoun. I think there is a fair bit in Neeps' contention that players are kept in a holding pen at Edinburgh, not signed to make Edinburgh more competitive.

Glasgow have been stronger than Edinburgh at 9 and 10 for a while, since Mike Blair moved away anyway, but look at the strength in depth in the centres as well, we've had some clunkers and some honest to goodness good league level pros (Dean) whilst Glasgow have had Huwipulotu, Big Staff, Pete Horne, Steyn, Grigg was brilliant in the league, Peak Bennett, Alex Dunbar etc etc - any team is always going to be in with a puncher's chance when you have them in the midfield and I'm a big believer in winning creating its own momentum and building confidence. I genuinely think that is "the culture" that people are talking about when they refer to it at Glasgow

[Tichtheid]

I think this is a good mix of senior pros getting games and young guys coming up

[I like neeps]

I think if there was a simple solution at Edinburgh someone would have found it by now, but I don't accept that the likes of Watson, Ritchie, Graham or Vellacott coast in games for Edinburgh. Perhaps vdMerwe has been guilty of it but not guys like the ones mentioned or WP Nel in the recent past or Luke Crosbie, ie the players who were nailed on for Scotland, anyone suggesting otherwise is looking for an easy answer to the problem.

Glasgow unearthed a gem in Tom Jordan, he was, is, a 12 that can play superbly at 10 - in recent years Edinburgh have gone through the likes of Jason Tovey, Jaco van Der Walt, Wee Greeg before that, I won't re-enact the Kinghorn at 10 wars just now, then we brought in a guy who couldn't make the shirt his own at Munster, now a guy who was in a similar position at Glasgow. Oh Wee Duncy too, another guy who was moved to give him game time.
Despite the wailings on the Weedgie board, the guys who move east along the M8 are on their way down - Bennett was dropped by Toonie because of his defence, the others can't get game time at Scotstoun. I think there is a fair bit in Neeps' contention that players are kept in a holding pen at Edinburgh, not signed to make Edinburgh more competitive.

Glasgow have been stronger than Edinburgh at 9 and 10 for a while, since Mike Blair moved away anyway, but look at the strength in depth in the centres as well, we've had some clunkers and some honest to goodness good league level pros (Dean) whilst Glasgow have had Huwipulotu, Big Staff, Pete Horne, Steyn, Grigg was brilliant in the league, Peak Bennett, Alex Dunbar etc etc - any team is always going to be in with a puncher's chance when you have them in the midfield and I'm a big believer in winning creating its own momentum and building confidence. I genuinely think that is "the culture" that people are talking about when they refer to it at Glasgow

Glasgow have developed a good amount of those centres though. Tuipolotu and Jones maybe not but they have to play well or McDowell (Glasgow developed) will. Jones in his first spell (signed on big money for Scotland) regularly couldn't get in the team over Grigg (developed at Glasgow) or Steyn.

Bennett was always earmarked as a great player but Grigg, Sam Johnson, Pete Horne, Alex Dunbar, Richie Vernon and company weren't.

Glasgow have not only had good centres who were signed for Scotland they've always had real competition for places from the academy or from abroad.

Edinburgh meanwhile Scott, Dean, and Jimmy Johnstone have been there best centres and not the James Lang brought to compensate the loss of his EQ. Bennett moved because Glasgow had moved on too and whilst a class player in the past a bit average now. And no youth guys or unknowns like Johnson and Grigg working hard everyday to get in the team. I think it starts with coaching - Franco Smith, Dave Rennie, Gregor Townsend weren't letting established guys or SRU mandates have an easy ride and not pick the young and hungry players.

[Dogbert]

URC Champions Team for the visit to Cardiff- half a dozen of what you would consider as first XV players out injured - looks like both Horne & Hastings failed HIA's , but on the positive side Jack's back, for his 50th cap along with the return of Huwipuloto, Zander being rested.



Franco identified Cardiff as being the dark horses this year , and they are currently top of the table , they have a decent back row , and a strong set of backs.

This is going to be a tough one for Glasgow . and too close to call



1 Rory Sutherland (1)
2 Johnny Matthews (75)
3 Sam Talakai (2)
4 Alex Samuel (17)
5 Scott Cummings (127)
6 Gregor Brown (22)
7 Matt Fagerson (113)
8 Jack Dempsey (50)

9 Jamie Dobie (70)
10 Tom Jordan (52)
11 Facundo Cordero (4)
12 Sione Tuipulotu (C) (57)
13 Huw Jones (71)
14 Kyle Rowe (18)
15 Josh McKay (51)

Replacements

16 Gregor Hiddleston (11)
17 Jamie Bhatti (107)
18 Patrick Schickerling (0)
19 Richie Gray (117)
20 Max Williamson (21)
21 Euan Ferrie (22)
22 Ben Afshar (8)
23 Duncan Weir (151)

Unavailable for selection: Sebastian Cancelliere (foot), Rory Darge (head), Allan Dell (arm), Adam Hastings (head), George Horne (head), Stafford McDowall (calf), JP du Preez (knee), Ollie Smith (knee), Kyle Steyn (ankle), Sione Vailanu (knee), Murphy Walker (neck)

[Tichtheid]

I think if there was a simple solution at Edinburgh someone would have found it by now, but I don't accept that the likes of Watson, Ritchie, Graham or Vellacott coast in games for Edinburgh. Perhaps vdMerwe has been guilty of it but not guys like the ones mentioned or WP Nel in the recent past or Luke Crosbie, ie the players who were nailed on for Scotland, anyone suggesting otherwise is looking for an easy answer to the problem.

Glasgow unearthed a gem in Tom Jordan, he was, is, a 12 that can play superbly at 10 - in recent years Edinburgh have gone through the likes of Jason Tovey, Jaco van Der Walt, Wee Greeg before that, I won't re-enact the Kinghorn at 10 wars just now, then we brought in a guy who couldn't make the shirt his own at Munster, now a guy who was in a similar position at Glasgow. Oh Wee Duncy too, another guy who was moved to give him game time.
Despite the wailings on the Weedgie board, the guys who move east along the M8 are on their way down - Bennett was dropped by Toonie because of his defence, the others can't get game time at Scotstoun. I think there is a fair bit in Neeps' contention that players are kept in a holding pen at Edinburgh, not signed to make Edinburgh more competitive.

Glasgow have been stronger than Edinburgh at 9 and 10 for a while, since Mike Blair moved away anyway, but look at the strength in depth in the centres as well, we've had some clunkers and some honest to goodness good league level pros (Dean) whilst Glasgow have had Huwipulotu, Big Staff, Pete Horne, Steyn, Grigg was brilliant in the league, Peak Bennett, Alex Dunbar etc etc - any team is always going to be in with a puncher's chance when you have them in the midfield and I'm a big believer in winning creating its own momentum and building confidence. I genuinely think that is "the culture" that people are talking about when they refer to it at Glasgow

Glasgow have developed a good amount of those centres though. Tuipolotu and Jones maybe not but they have to play well or McDowell (Glasgow developed) will. Jones in his first spell (signed on big money for Scotland) regularly couldn't get in the team over Grigg (developed at Glasgow) or Steyn.

Bennett was always earmarked as a great player but Grigg, Sam Johnson, Pete Horne, Alex Dunbar, Richie Vernon and company weren't.

Glasgow have not only had good centres who were signed for Scotland they've always had real competition for places from the academy or from abroad.

Edinburgh meanwhile Scott, Dean, and Jimmy Johnstone have been there best centres and not the James Lang brought to compensate the loss of his EQ. Bennett moved because Glasgow had moved on too and whilst a class player in the past a bit average now. And no youth guys or unknowns like Johnson and Grigg working hard everyday to get in the team. I think it starts with coaching - Franco Smith, Dave Rennie, Gregor Townsend weren't letting established guys or SRU mandates have an easy ride and not pick the young and hungry players.

From Wiki, Grigg moved to Glasgow at the same age as Duhan moved to Edinburgh, he'd been in the Hurricanes academy previously.

Edinburgh have had a good run at developing back row players, we've been stronger than Glasgow over the years there

[clydecloggie]

I think if there was a simple solution at Edinburgh someone would have found it by now, but I don't accept that the likes of Watson, Ritchie, Graham or Vellacott coast in games for Edinburgh. Perhaps vdMerwe has been guilty of it but not guys like the ones mentioned or WP Nel in the recent past or Luke Crosbie, ie the players who were nailed on for Scotland, anyone suggesting otherwise is looking for an easy answer to the problem.

Glasgow unearthed a gem in Tom Jordan, he was, is, a 12 that can play superbly at 10 - in recent years Edinburgh have gone through the likes of Jason Tovey, Jaco van Der Walt, Wee Greeg before that, I won't re-enact the Kinghorn at 10 wars just now, then we brought in a guy who couldn't make the shirt his own at Munster, now a guy who was in a similar position at Glasgow. Oh Wee Duncy too, another guy who was moved to give him game time.
Despite the wailings on the Weedgie board, the guys who move east along the M8 are on their way down - Bennett was dropped by Toonie because of his defence, the others can't get game time at Scotstoun. I think there is a fair bit in Neeps' contention that players are kept in a holding pen at Edinburgh, not signed to make Edinburgh more competitive.

Glasgow have been stronger than Edinburgh at 9 and 10 for a while, since Mike Blair moved away anyway, but look at the strength in depth in the centres as well, we've had some clunkers and some honest to goodness good league level pros (Dean) whilst Glasgow have had Huwipulotu, Big Staff, Pete Horne, Steyn, Grigg was brilliant in the league, Peak Bennett, Alex Dunbar etc etc - any team is always going to be in with a puncher's chance when you have them in the midfield and I'm a big believer in winning creating its own momentum and building confidence. I genuinely think that is "the culture" that people are talking about when they refer to it at Glasgow

Glasgow have developed a good amount of those centres though. Tuipolotu and Jones maybe not but they have to play well or McDowell (Glasgow developed) will. Jones in his first spell (signed on big money for Scotland) regularly couldn't get in the team over Grigg (developed at Glasgow) or Steyn.

Bennett was always earmarked as a great player but Grigg, Sam Johnson, Pete Horne, Alex Dunbar, Richie Vernon and company weren't.

Glasgow have not only had good centres who were signed for Scotland they've always had real competition for places from the academy or from abroad.

Edinburgh meanwhile Scott, Dean, and Jimmy Johnstone have been there best centres and not the James Lang brought to compensate the loss of his EQ. Bennett moved because Glasgow had moved on too and whilst a class player in the past a bit average now. And no youth guys or unknowns like Johnson and Grigg working hard everyday to get in the team. I think it starts with coaching - Franco Smith, Dave Rennie, Gregor Townsend weren't letting established guys or SRU mandates have an easy ride and not pick the young and hungry players.

From Wiki, Grigg moved to Glasgow at the same age as Duhan moved to Edinburgh, he'd been in the Hurricanes academy previously.

Edinburgh have had a good run at developing back row players, we've been stronger than Glasgow over the years there

Funny you mention back row - it'd be fascinating to know what the Edinburgh/SRU assessment of Darge was when he was moved to Glasgow. Did the SRU think they had a real gem on their hands and the only way to make him reach his full potential was to move him? Did Edinburgh think he wasn't good enough to get in the XV and they were happy to let him go?

[Tichtheid]

Glasgow have developed a good amount of those centres though. Tuipolotu and Jones maybe not but they have to play well or McDowell (Glasgow developed) will. Jones in his first spell (signed on big money for Scotland) regularly couldn't get in the team over Grigg (developed at Glasgow) or Steyn.

Bennett was always earmarked as a great player but Grigg, Sam Johnson, Pete Horne, Alex Dunbar, Richie Vernon and company weren't.

Glasgow have not only had good centres who were signed for Scotland they've always had real competition for places from the academy or from abroad.

Edinburgh meanwhile Scott, Dean, and Jimmy Johnstone have been there best centres and not the James Lang brought to compensate the loss of his EQ. Bennett moved because Glasgow had moved on too and whilst a class player in the past a bit average now. And no youth guys or unknowns like Johnson and Grigg working hard everyday to get in the team. I think it starts with coaching - Franco Smith, Dave Rennie, Gregor Townsend weren't letting established guys or SRU mandates have an easy ride and not pick the young and hungry players.

From Wiki, Grigg moved to Glasgow at the same age as Duhan moved to Edinburgh, he'd been in the Hurricanes academy previously.

Edinburgh have had a good run at developing back row players, we've been stronger than Glasgow over the years there

Funny you mention back row - it'd be fascinating to know what the Edinburgh/SRU assessment of Darge was when he was moved to Glasgow. Did the SRU think they had a real gem on their hands and the only way to make him reach his full potential was to move him? Did Edinburgh think he wasn't good enough to get in the XV and they were happy to let him go?

My memory was that Darge was moved because there was a back row injury crisis at Glasgow and Edinburgh chose to keep Boyle over RD. It's one of those sliding doors moments, if Boyle had gone over instead of Darge he could well be in the same situation, they were certainly both very highly thought of.

Euan McVie is a lock/6 and he was very impressive in the U20s, as was Tom Currie and Liam McConnell. Freddy Douglas is going to be a star.

[Biffer]

From Wiki, Grigg moved to Glasgow at the same age as Duhan moved to Edinburgh, he'd been in the Hurricanes academy previously.

Edinburgh have had a good run at developing back row players, we've been stronger than Glasgow over the years there

Funny you mention back row - it'd be fascinating to know what the Edinburgh/SRU assessment of Darge was when he was moved to Glasgow. Did the SRU think they had a real gem on their hands and the only way to make him reach his full potential was to move him? Did Edinburgh think he wasn't good enough to get in the XV and they were happy to let him go?

My memory was that Darge was moved because there was a back row injury crisis at Glasgow and Edinburgh chose to keep Boyle over RD. It's one of those sliding doors moments, if Boyle had gone over instead of Darge he could well be in the same situation, they were certainly both very highly thought of.

Euan McVie is a lock/6 and he was very impressive in the U20s, as was Tom Currie and Liam McConnell. Freddy Douglas is going to be a star.

That's my recollection. We couldn't have those two, plus Watson and Ritchie, in the same place, so one had to move. Can't ckerill in charge at the time I think so he took the bigger guy.

[robmatic]

Funny you mention back row - it'd be fascinating to know what the Edinburgh/SRU assessment of Darge was when he was moved to Glasgow. Did the SRU think they had a real gem on their hands and the only way to make him reach his full potential was to move him? Did Edinburgh think he wasn't good enough to get in the XV and they were happy to let him go?

My memory was that Darge was moved because there was a back row injury crisis at Glasgow and Edinburgh chose to keep Boyle over RD. It's one of those sliding doors moments, if Boyle had gone over instead of Darge he could well be in the same situation, they were certainly both very highly thought of.

Euan McVie is a lock/6 and he was very impressive in the U20s, as was Tom Currie and Liam McConnell. Freddy Douglas is going to be a star.

That's my recollection. We couldn't have those two, plus Watson and Ritchie, in the same place, so one had to move. Can't ckerill in charge at the time I think so he took the bigger guy.

The Boyle situation is in many ways symptomatic because I think he has a lot of potential - he gets some exceptional turnovers when he does play and he has a big character - but we always play Hamish instead, who has really declined in effectiveness over the last couple of seasons.

[Tichtheid]

iirc, Ally Miller was moved over around the same time and he’d been Edinburgh’s form backrower at the time

Luke Crosbie and Big Bill Mata were also in front of the younger guys at Edinburgh, as well as Nick Haining, Bradbury, Kunavula and Ben Muncaster - it's not an easy back row for young guys to break into

edit, looking back at Disco's depth chart from the 21/22 squad, from the ones at the lower end of the pecking order, Harri Morris has been moved to hooker a la Rambo and Rudi Brown is playing in France, I believe https://ontopofthemoon.com/2021/10/18/e ... t-2021-22/

I seem to remember that the thinking was that McConnell was a better bet than Brown.

[weegie01]

I think if there was a simple solution at Edinburgh someone would have found it by now, but I don't accept that the likes of Watson, Ritchie, Graham or Vellacott coast in games for Edinburgh. Perhaps vdMerwe has been guilty of it but not guys like the ones mentioned or WP Nel in the recent past or Luke Crosbie, ie the players who were nailed on for Scotland, anyone suggesting otherwise is looking for an easy answer to the problem.

Glasgow unearthed a gem in Tom Jordan, he was, is, a 12 that can play superbly at 10 - in recent years Edinburgh have gone through the likes of Jason Tovey, Jaco van Der Walt, Wee Greeg before that, I won't re-enact the Kinghorn at 10 wars just now, then we brought in a guy who couldn't make the shirt his own at Munster, now a guy who was in a similar position at Glasgow. Oh Wee Duncy too, another guy who was moved to give him game time.
Despite the wailings on the Weedgie board, the guys who move east along the M8 are on their way down - Bennett was dropped by Toonie because of his defence, the others can't get game time at Scotstoun. I think there is a fair bit in Neeps' contention that players are kept in a holding pen at Edinburgh, not signed to make Edinburgh more competitive.

Glasgow have been stronger than Edinburgh at 9 and 10 for a while, since Mike Blair moved away anyway, but look at the strength in depth in the centres as well, we've had some clunkers and some honest to goodness good league level pros (Dean) whilst Glasgow have had Huwipulotu, Big Staff, Pete Horne, Steyn, Grigg was brilliant in the league, Peak Bennett, Alex Dunbar etc etc - any team is always going to be in with a puncher's chance when you have them in the midfield and I'm a big believer in winning creating its own momentum and building confidence. I genuinely think that is "the culture" that people are talking about when they refer to it at Glasgow

Edinburgh offered Tom Jordan a contract first and he was looking for a flat in Edinburgh, then Glasgow stepped in. As he was ex Bulls he felt more comfortable going into the Glasgow environment where he knew many people.

[topofthemoon]

Not a post I ever wanted to have to make but sadly frillage - Fraser Millar, my wee brother - passed away last weekend.

He had a lot of health issues to deal with over the last decade but he was never lacking in determination (and occasionally downright stubbornness) so he fought through until the end.

The stroke he had in 2020 was particularly cruel as the resulting aphasia left him with limited speech and impacted his reading and writing enough that he never participated on here or PR again even after he had almost entirely recovered physically.

It was a real shame as he loved the rugby forums and the community that came with them. Prior to the stroke he could happily chat rugby (and loads of other subjects) online at all hours, day in day out. Plus he was never short of a strongly held point of view allied to a willingness to wind up some of the more humourless denizens of PR!

I know that he met quite a few folk from the PR community in the real world. He always knew where to go for a decent night out in his adopted home city of Edinburgh so hopefully some you have happy (if slightly blurry) memories of a tall, shaven-headed fella and his twin obsessions with Scotland XVs and Argentina 7s, both of whom provided him with a fair amount of elation and agony over the years.

He was my best friend and I was lucky to have him alongside me for various Scotland, Lions, Glasgow and Edinburgh matches over the years. I will miss him.

[Tichtheid]

Not a post I ever wanted to have to make but sadly frillage - Fraser Millar, my wee brother - passed away last weekend.

He had a lot of health issues to deal with over the last decade but he was never lacking in determination (and occasionally downright stubbornness) so he fought through until the end.

The stroke he had in 2020 was particularly cruel as the resulting aphasia left him with limited speech and impacted his reading and writing enough that he never participated on here or PR again even after he had almost entirely recovered physically.

It was a real shame as he loved the rugby forums and the community that came with them. Prior to the stroke he could happily chat rugby (and loads of other subjects) online at all hours, day in day out. Plus he was never short of a strongly held point of view allied to a willingness to wind up some of the more humourless denizens of PR!

I know that he met quite a few folk from the PR community in the real world. He always knew where to go for a decent night out in his adopted home city of Edinburgh so hopefully some you have happy (if slightly blurry) memories of a tall, shaven-headed fella and his twin obsessions with Scotland XVs and Argentina 7s, both of whom provided him with a fair amount of elation and agony over the years.

He was my best friend and I was lucky to have him alongside me for various Scotland, Lions, Glasgow and Edinburgh matches over the years. I will miss him.

I’m very sorry to hear that. My condolences, totm.

[clydecloggie]

That's horrible TotM, my condolences. Only the good die young. RIP.

[Big D]

Not a post I ever wanted to have to make but sadly frillage - Fraser Millar, my wee brother - passed away last weekend.

He had a lot of health issues to deal with over the last decade but he was never lacking in determination (and occasionally downright stubbornness) so he fought through until the end.

The stroke he had in 2020 was particularly cruel as the resulting aphasia left him with limited speech and impacted his reading and writing enough that he never participated on here or PR again even after he had almost entirely recovered physically.

It was a real shame as he loved the rugby forums and the community that came with them. Prior to the stroke he could happily chat rugby (and loads of other subjects) online at all hours, day in day out. Plus he was never short of a strongly held point of view allied to a willingness to wind up some of the more humourless denizens of PR!

I know that he met quite a few folk from the PR community in the real world. He always knew where to go for a decent night out in his adopted home city of Edinburgh so hopefully some you have happy (if slightly blurry) memories of a tall, shaven-headed fella and his twin obsessions with Scotland XVs and Argentina 7s, both of whom provided him with a fair amount of elation and agony over the years.

He was my best friend and I was lucky to have him alongside me for various Scotland, Lions, Glasgow and Edinburgh matches over the years. I will miss him.

Sorry for you and your families loss.

I remember frillage posting on PR. He has was always someone who I enjoyed interacting with on there.

[Slick]

Not a post I ever wanted to have to make but sadly frillage - Fraser Millar, my wee brother - passed away last weekend.

He had a lot of health issues to deal with over the last decade but he was never lacking in determination (and occasionally downright stubbornness) so he fought through until the end.

The stroke he had in 2020 was particularly cruel as the resulting aphasia left him with limited speech and impacted his reading and writing enough that he never participated on here or PR again even after he had almost entirely recovered physically.

It was a real shame as he loved the rugby forums and the community that came with them. Prior to the stroke he could happily chat rugby (and loads of other subjects) online at all hours, day in day out. Plus he was never short of a strongly held point of view allied to a willingness to wind up some of the more humourless denizens of PR!

I know that he met quite a few folk from the PR community in the real world. He always knew where to go for a decent night out in his adopted home city of Edinburgh so hopefully some you have happy (if slightly blurry) memories of a tall, shaven-headed fella and his twin obsessions with Scotland XVs and Argentina 7s, both of whom provided him with a fair amount of elation and agony over the years.

He was my best friend and I was lucky to have him alongside me for various Scotland, Lions, Glasgow and Edinburgh matches over the years. I will miss him.

I’m so sorry to hear this ToTM.

He was a really good guy. I got to know him quite well after he helped me out on a number of occasions when he was managing the restaurant on George Street and shared a number of beers with him prior to the stroke. A true pro at work. Out of work, less so .

I wrote to him a few times after the stroke, not expecting a reply, and we bumped into each other and said hi a couple of times but could tell he was struggling a bit. I hoped he would pop up again back to his old self so really upset to hear this news.

All my thoughts and love to you and the family. I’ll remember him as an understated man who made a big impact.

[Jock42]

Really sorry to read that TOTM. I never realised you 2 were related. I never met him but always thought he seemed like a genuine person and was a great poster. All the best to you and your family.

[robmatic]

Not a post I ever wanted to have to make but sadly frillage - Fraser Millar, my wee brother - passed away last weekend.

He had a lot of health issues to deal with over the last decade but he was never lacking in determination (and occasionally downright stubbornness) so he fought through until the end.

The stroke he had in 2020 was particularly cruel as the resulting aphasia left him with limited speech and impacted his reading and writing enough that he never participated on here or PR again even after he had almost entirely recovered physically.

It was a real shame as he loved the rugby forums and the community that came with them. Prior to the stroke he could happily chat rugby (and loads of other subjects) online at all hours, day in day out. Plus he was never short of a strongly held point of view allied to a willingness to wind up some of the more humourless denizens of PR!

I know that he met quite a few folk from the PR community in the real world. He always knew where to go for a decent night out in his adopted home city of Edinburgh so hopefully some you have happy (if slightly blurry) memories of a tall, shaven-headed fella and his twin obsessions with Scotland XVs and Argentina 7s, both of whom provided him with a fair amount of elation and agony over the years.

He was my best friend and I was lucky to have him alongside me for various Scotland, Lions, Glasgow and Edinburgh matches over the years. I will miss him.

I am sorry to hear this. I just knew Frillage from his posts on the Edinburgh forum and PR but he was one of the good guys.

[inactionman]

Very sorry to hear such sad news. My condolences.

[Biffer]

Not a post I ever wanted to have to make but sadly frillage - Fraser Millar, my wee brother - passed away last weekend.

He had a lot of health issues to deal with over the last decade but he was never lacking in determination (and occasionally downright stubbornness) so he fought through until the end.

The stroke he had in 2020 was particularly cruel as the resulting aphasia left him with limited speech and impacted his reading and writing enough that he never participated on here or PR again even after he had almost entirely recovered physically.

It was a real shame as he loved the rugby forums and the community that came with them. Prior to the stroke he could happily chat rugby (and loads of other subjects) online at all hours, day in day out. Plus he was never short of a strongly held point of view allied to a willingness to wind up some of the more humourless denizens of PR!

I know that he met quite a few folk from the PR community in the real world. He always knew where to go for a decent night out in his adopted home city of Edinburgh so hopefully some you have happy (if slightly blurry) memories of a tall, shaven-headed fella and his twin obsessions with Scotland XVs and Argentina 7s, both of whom provided him with a fair amount of elation and agony over the years.

He was my best friend and I was lucky to have him alongside me for various Scotland, Lions, Glasgow and Edinburgh matches over the years. I will miss him.

Ach, that’s awful. Sorry for your loss.

[S/Lt_Phillips]

Not a post I ever wanted to have to make but sadly frillage - Fraser Millar, my wee brother - passed away last weekend.

He had a lot of health issues to deal with over the last decade but he was never lacking in determination (and occasionally downright stubbornness) so he fought through until the end.

The stroke he had in 2020 was particularly cruel as the resulting aphasia left him with limited speech and impacted his reading and writing enough that he never participated on here or PR again even after he had almost entirely recovered physically.

It was a real shame as he loved the rugby forums and the community that came with them. Prior to the stroke he could happily chat rugby (and loads of other subjects) online at all hours, day in day out. Plus he was never short of a strongly held point of view allied to a willingness to wind up some of the more humourless denizens of PR!

I know that he met quite a few folk from the PR community in the real world. He always knew where to go for a decent night out in his adopted home city of Edinburgh so hopefully some you have happy (if slightly blurry) memories of a tall, shaven-headed fella and his twin obsessions with Scotland XVs and Argentina 7s, both of whom provided him with a fair amount of elation and agony over the years.

He was my best friend and I was lucky to have him alongside me for various Scotland, Lions, Glasgow and Edinburgh matches over the years. I will miss him.

Really sorry to hear this, condolences TOTM.

[dpedin]

Not a post I ever wanted to have to make but sadly frillage - Fraser Millar, my wee brother - passed away last weekend.

He had a lot of health issues to deal with over the last decade but he was never lacking in determination (and occasionally downright stubbornness) so he fought through until the end.

The stroke he had in 2020 was particularly cruel as the resulting aphasia left him with limited speech and impacted his reading and writing enough that he never participated on here or PR again even after he had almost entirely recovered physically.

It was a real shame as he loved the rugby forums and the community that came with them. Prior to the stroke he could happily chat rugby (and loads of other subjects) online at all hours, day in day out. Plus he was never short of a strongly held point of view allied to a willingness to wind up some of the more humourless denizens of PR!

I know that he met quite a few folk from the PR community in the real world. He always knew where to go for a decent night out in his adopted home city of Edinburgh so hopefully some you have happy (if slightly blurry) memories of a tall, shaven-headed fella and his twin obsessions with Scotland XVs and Argentina 7s, both of whom provided him with a fair amount of elation and agony over the years.

He was my best friend and I was lucky to have him alongside me for various Scotland, Lions, Glasgow and Edinburgh matches over the years. I will miss him.

Why is it the good guys always go first? From a fellow Edinburgh resident and rugby fan all my sympathies, remember the good times!

[weegie01]

As well as interaacting across forums, I met him once, and my sons a few times at the restaurant. A very decent guy.

Condolences to TOTM and all friends and relatives.

[SaintK]

Condolences. Horrible news

[Dogbert]

Awful news TOTM , Nothing can replace the loss of a loved one

[S/Lt_Phillips]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... qz4j01q4xo

Where's he off to?

[Dogbert]

Best guess Japan - Good luck to the big man

Been superb his 2nd time around with the Warriors

One a warrior ....

“This move is a fantastic opportunity for me, and a really exciting move for my family. I’m really looking forward to the challenge that awaits me.

“I’ll definitely be back here with the family at some point, though. Glasgow is my home, and I’ve got no doubt I’ll be here in the stands with the Warrior Nation one day.”

[KingBlairhorn]

So sorry to hear that Kevin, awful news. I also remember Frillage well from the old forum, he always came across as a top bloke and clearly so enthusiastic about his rugby.

All the best to you and your family.

[Big D]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... qz4j01q4xo

Where's he off to?

Must be Japan? Their league starts in December iirc. Probably puts an end to his national career.

[Jock42]

Fanfuckingtastic from Dobie. Actually thought it was Horne

[KingBlairhorn]

Fanfuckingtastic from Dobie. Actually thought it was Horne

Quality.

Imagine being handed off by a 9, whichever Cardiff player that was will be getting savaged later

[robmatic]

This Irish ref isn't very sympathetic towards Glasgow.

[vball]

Dobie not getting much protection at the breakdown.

[KingBlairhorn]

The ‘quality’ of defence in this match is so far atrocious

[KingBlairhorn]

Glasgow are seriously missing the protection a proper 7 provides at the ruck.

[Yr Alban]

Just saw Glasgow losing their own scrum feed. WTAF?

[Yr Alban]

That was scarcely deserved. Jordan can shift though

[Jock42]

Half of that from Mosese and I'll be happy

[Yr Alban]

Half of that from Mosese and I'll be happy

Was pretty sweet.