NPR

Slick wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 3:59 pm All a bit meh.

Hutchinson and Bayliss been good, TJ OK as well. Reed not being terribly impressive

Kinda boring tbh

Hutchinson is such a class act. I appreciate Jones and Harris but it's such a shame he only has 7 caps.

That’s a shit decision, so what if there is cover coming across, if it’s deliberate it’s a yellow- Darcy should have walked

Slick wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 4:28 pm That’s a shit decision, so what if there is cover coming across, if it’s deliberate it’s a yellow- Darcy should have walked

Agreed. I actually thought their yellow was a bit harsh too given we also got the PT. Surely one or the other is fairer?

Good to see you lot critics about the ref. Usually don't happen when you winning.

OomStruisbaai wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 4:43 pm Good to see you lot critics about the ref. Usually don't happen when you winning.

Stick with us Oom, we’ll make you a better rugby man

Murrayfield crowd booing the try getting chalked off for the most obvious forward pass of the match. FFS

Blackmac wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 4:55 pm Murrayfield crowd booing the try getting chalked off for the most obvious forward pass of the match. FFS

Mostly because it was Jordan I think, first try chalked off is tough for him. Obviously the right call though.

KingBlairhorn wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 4:36 pm

Slick wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 4:28 pm That’s a shit decision, so what if there is cover coming across, if it’s deliberate it’s a yellow- Darcy should have walked

Agreed. I actually thought their yellow was a bit harsh too given we also got the PT. Surely one or the other is fairer?

For the last Portugal try which was chalked off, Graham is off his feet and out the game, but he played the ball with his feet - that's a penalty try for me

Jordan had another stormer - it will be a tough call whether to start him or Kinghorn at fullback next week.

Tichtheid wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:05 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 4:36 pm

Slick wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 4:28 pm That’s a shit decision, so what if there is cover coming across, if it’s deliberate it’s a yellow- Darcy should have walked

Agreed. I actually thought their yellow was a bit harsh too given we also got the PT. Surely one or the other is fairer?

For the last Portugal try which was chalked off, Graham is off his feet and out the game, but he played the ball with his feet - that's a penalty try for me

He's over the try line so it's allowed I think.

I like neeps wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:09 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:05 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 4:36 pm

Agreed. I actually thought their yellow was a bit harsh too given we also got the PT. Surely one or the other is fairer?

For the last Portugal try which was chalked off, Graham is off his feet and out the game, but he played the ball with his feet - that's a penalty try for me

He's over the try line so it's allowed I think.

Oh really, didn’t know that. I like it when a wee quirk of the laws I don’t know crops up.

Tichtheid wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:06 pm Jordan had another stormer - it will be a tough call whether to start him or Kinghorn at fullback next week.

Think Kinghorn has enough in the bank to keep his place but he’ll have to be good Kinghorn

KingBlairhorn wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 4:36 pm

Slick wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 4:28 pm That’s a shit decision, so what if there is cover coming across, if it’s deliberate it’s a yellow- Darcy should have walked

Agreed. I actually thought their yellow was a bit harsh too given we also got the PT. Surely one or the other is fairer?

Penalty try must be a yellow if the ref can identify someone causing it.

KingBlairhorn wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:10 pm

I like neeps wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:09 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:05 pm


For the last Portugal try which was chalked off, Graham is off his feet and out the game, but he played the ball with his feet - that's a penalty try for me

He's over the try line so it's allowed I think.

Oh really, didn’t know that. I like it when a wee quirk of the laws I don’t know crops up.

I've only been playing and watching for 50 years. I'm not quite au fait with all the laws in rugby yet

Slick wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:11 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:06 pm Jordan had another stormer - it will be a tough call whether to start him or Kinghorn at fullback next week.

Think Kinghorn has enough in the bank to keep his place but he’ll have to be good Kinghorn

Probably, Jordan is the perfect kind of player to have on the pine, too - he can play three positions

Thought it was pretty poor.

Tight 5 mostly average at best.

Back row went well.

Half backs offered little control to the point Horne should be behind Dobie as Whites back up.

Centres were OK and TJ was good at 15.

I wouldn't change the XV from the SA game.

Big D wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:11 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 4:36 pm

Slick wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 4:28 pm That’s a shit decision, so what if there is cover coming across, if it’s deliberate it’s a yellow- Darcy should have walked

Agreed. I actually thought their yellow was a bit harsh too given we also got the PT. Surely one or the other is fairer?

Penalty try must be a yellow if the ref can identify someone causing it.

Talking of laws you didn’t know..

Big D wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:16 pm

I wouldn't change the XV from the SA game.

I'd definitely start Graham

People are sounding down about this match, and there are clearly things that could have been done better... but have a look at all of Portugal's tier 1 matches over the last year or so and tell me that doesn't rank high among them... with effectively a Scotland 2nd XV.

Tichtheid wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:21 pm

Big D wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:16 pm

I wouldn't change the XV from the SA game.

I'd definitely start Graham

Wouldn't fight against it if he was.

I don't think there's many wrong choices in the back three but didn't think the back 3 were too bad last week and didn't think Darcy was pretty average tonight.

Tichtheid wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:12 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:10 pm

I like neeps wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:09 pm

He's over the try line so it's allowed I think.

Oh really, didn’t know that. I like it when a wee quirk of the laws I don’t know crops up.

I've only been playing and watching for 50 years. I'm not quite au fait with all the laws in rugby yet

I think he's allowed to because how often do you see players go off their feet straight to ground to try and hold up a player in the in goal and it's never given as a penalty.

Not 100% sure.

Big D wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:16 pm Thought it was pretty poor.

Tight 5 mostly average at best.

Back row went well.

Half backs offered little control to the point Horne should be behind Dobie as Whites back up.

Centres were OK and TJ was good at 15.

I wouldn't change the XV from the SA game.

I thought that Bayliss, Hutchinson and Jordan were all head and shoulders the best players on the pitch. Would have them all involved next week likely on the bench.

I think guys like Horne and Matthews showed why they're unfancied.

I like neeps wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:36 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:12 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:10 pm

Oh really, didn’t know that. I like it when a wee quirk of the laws I don’t know crops up.

I've only been playing and watching for 50 years. I'm not quite au fait with all the laws in rugby yet

I think he's allowed to because how often do you see players go off their feet straight to ground to try and hold up a player in the in goal and it's never given as a penalty.

Not 100% sure.

There's no offside line behind the try line but it does get a bit wild with off feet etc.

Sigh. Just once I wish we would post a big win v a Tier 2 opponent without a bunch of caveats attached. Every time we play one of these games we run up a big score and a bunch of tries, but there’s always a ‘yes, but’ or five. I guess it just isn’t Scottish enough to ever put in a complete performance. Today it’s the lineout everyone’s talking about.

Having said that, a good run-out for our 2nd XV plus Darcy. Good to know we have decent cover in most positions.

Since August last year:

Por 46 - 10 USA
Wal 28 - 8 Por
Geo 18-18 Por
Aus 34-14 Por
Fiji 23-24 Por
Nam 22-37 Por
SA 64-21 Por
Por 17-21 USA
Sco 59-21 Por

Whatever our concerns about that (unofficially) Scotland A performance, only SA's result against Portugal is in the same ballpark.

charltom wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 6:23 pm Since August last year:

Por 46 - 10 USA
Wal 28 - 8 Por
Geo 18-18 Por
Aus 34-14 Por
Fiji 23-24 Por
Nam 22-37 Por
SA 64-21 Por
Por 17-21 USA
Sco 59-21 Por

Whatever our concerns about that (unofficially) Scotland A performance, only SA's result against Portugal is in the same ballpark.

The commentators were saying its a very different Portuguese team, a lot of new players since the world cup. Not sure we're comparing applies and pears here.

I like neeps wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 6:26 pm

charltom wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 6:23 pm Since August last year:

Por 46 - 10 USA
Wal 28 - 8 Por
Geo 18-18 Por
Aus 34-14 Por
Fiji 23-24 Por
Nam 22-37 Por
SA 64-21 Por
Por 17-21 USA
Sco 59-21 Por

Whatever our concerns about that (unofficially) Scotland A performance, only SA's result against Portugal is in the same ballpark.

The commentators were saying its a very different Portuguese team, a lot of new players since the world cup. Not sure we're comparing applies and pears here.

The other side of that is that Graham is the only starter from this week that will start next week. Sutherland, Bayliss and Dobie will probably be in next week's 23, perhaps McDowall too.

Having said that, I was just thinking that Jordan's performance may knock McDowall out of the 23 if Toonie goes with Kinghorn to start.

I like neeps wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 6:26 pm

charltom wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 6:23 pm Since August last year:

Por 46 - 10 USA
Wal 28 - 8 Por
Geo 18-18 Por
Aus 34-14 Por
Fiji 23-24 Por
Nam 22-37 Por
SA 64-21 Por
Por 17-21 USA
Sco 59-21 Por

Whatever our concerns about that (unofficially) Scotland A performance, only SA's result against Portugal is in the same ballpark.

The commentators were saying its a very different Portuguese team, a lot of new players since the world cup. Not sure we're comparing applies and pears here.

The SA match was this summer, and featured more first team players for SA than Scotland did.

KingBlairhorn wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2024 12:12 pm

dpedin wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2024 10:22 am

I like neeps wrote: Fri Nov 15, 2024 9:02 am

Cockers deserves a lot of credit for his work at Edinburgh pre covid and yes taking a punt on duhan is one of those points but he didn't really learn his rugby in Scotland. He was unbelievable from day1.

I think Tom Jordan playing super6 you can suggest he was a good player in the best team and had consistent coaching and improvement.

Duhan was very much a work in progress in his early days at Edinburgh - his first 6 months were spent in the operating theatre and in rehab. When he eventually came onto the pitch he couldn't catch a high ball properly, his kicking was woeful and defensively he was all over the place. What he could do was run with ball in hand but even then he often ran across the pitch rather than straight. Ball retention in the tackle and knowing when/how to pass was poor. Arguably he still has some of these weaknesses? Edinburgh worked hard with him to transform him from a big man good at running with the ball into a more rounded top class international winger.

You've got to wonder how the SRU failed to make someone like Robbie Nairn (who was perhaps slightly less powerful but probably faster) into an international player when they did so much great work with Duhan.

I was a Nairn fan, but I felt he suffered a lot (as did McDowall) under Rennie. Being a bit part player in unsettled teams during international breaks.

Tichtheid wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:12 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:10 pm

I like neeps wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:09 pm

He's over the try line so it's allowed I think.

Oh really, didn’t know that. I like it when a wee quirk of the laws I don’t know crops up.

I've only been playing and watching for 50 years. I'm not quite au fait with all the laws in rugby yet

You and me both, but I think once it's over the line you can pretty much do whatever the fuck you want.

Biffer wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 11:07 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:12 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:10 pm

Oh really, didn’t know that. I like it when a wee quirk of the laws I don’t know crops up.

I've only been playing and watching for 50 years. I'm not quite au fait with all the laws in rugby yet

You and me both, but I think once it's over the line you can pretty much do whatever the fuck you want.

Law 13.3:

"A player on the ground in the field of play, without the ball is out of the game"

The field of play extends between the two goal lines but does not include the in goal areas.

Having been at the game

Not a single player who wasn't already in consideration for last week put their hand up for next week

Was Stafford captain? He hardly said a word to the ref all day.

topofthemoon wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 11:25 pm

Biffer wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 11:07 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 5:12 pm


I've only been playing and watching for 50 years. I'm not quite au fait with all the laws in rugby yet

You and me both, but I think once it's over the line you can pretty much do whatever the fuck you want.

Law 13.3:

"A player on the ground in the field of play, without the ball is out of the game"

The field of play extends between the two goal lines but does not include the in goal areas.

I'm taking that as confirmation of my opinion.

Biffer wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 11:29 pm

topofthemoon wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 11:25 pm

Biffer wrote: Sat Nov 16, 2024 11:07 pm

You and me both, but I think once it's over the line you can pretty much do whatever the fuck you want.

Law 13.3:

"A player on the ground in the field of play, without the ball is out of the game"

The field of play extends between the two goal lines but does not include the in goal areas.

I'm taking that as confirmation of my opinion.

I'd be happy to get behind your wording being added the next time the law book is updated!

Next week's teams (if it were me, not GT):

SCOTLAND vs. Australia
Schoeman Ashman ZFagerson Cummings Gilchrist Crosbie Darge MFagerson
Dobie Russell Kinghorn STuipulotu Jones Graham Jordan
(Sutherland Richardson Rae Craig Bayliss White Hutchinson vdMerwe)

SCOTLAND A vs. Chile
Bhatti Harrison Hurd Samuel Johnson Bradbury Douglas Muncaster
Horne Hastings Reed McDowall Currie Rowe Paterson
(Hepburn Matthews Millar-Mills Brown Watson Price MTuipulotu)

Injured/out:
McBeth RSmith Walker Williamson JGray Christie Boyle Dempsey
Afshar Thompson Steyn Redpath Harris Hoyland OSmith
(Kebble Cherry Sebastian Sykes Ferrie Warr Healy Lang)

I'm sure I've forgotten someone/something; but Williamson, Gray, Christie, Dempsey, Steyn and Redpath could add a lot of extra quality in the 6N or later.

It really felt like Jordan was being tried out today as a potential ongoing 15. The alternative of course would be White and DvdM starting, Kinghorn at FB and Dobie and Jordan being the 2 on a 6/2 split bench.

Will be interesting to see what teams GT opts for.

Australia A have some shameless poaches today... Rory Scott, Hamish Stewart and Jock Campbell!

I see Italy are losing to Georgia. I am more convinced than ever that we are Italy’s big game every year. They almost always turn up against us in a way they frequently don’t against other sides, England in particular. I know why this is, but it’s frustrating that we essentially play a different and tougher Italy than the other 6N teams.

Yr Alban wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 3:01 pm I see Italy are losing to Georgia. I am more convinced than ever that we are Italy’s big game every year. They almost always turn up against us in a way they frequently don’t against other sides, England in particular. I know why this is, but it’s frustrating that we essentially play a different and tougher Italy than the other 6N teams.

I'm sure England would say the same for us.

Big D wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 3:26 pm

Yr Alban wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2024 3:01 pm I see Italy are losing to Georgia. I am more convinced than ever that we are Italy’s big game every year. They almost always turn up against us in a way they frequently don’t against other sides, England in particular. I know why this is, but it’s frustrating that we essentially play a different and tougher Italy than the other 6N teams.

I'm sure England would say the same for us.

In recent years, that’s a fair point.

I have a slight fear that when we actually lose a game to England (has to happen eventually) that result will end up costing us a title.