NPR

In these games we often lack the composure needed because we don't have the experience to fall back on of winning them.

The Irish squad all have experience of winning these games and have that composure of knowing if they all do what they need to then they'll win more than they lose.

Nice cameo by POM on ITV but by feck he sounds Andy Powell levels of thick as pig shit.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 6:51 pm we got a lot closer that I thought we would on the scoreboard but the game itself wasn’t close

Yes and no.
Scotland didn't bring much attacking until the Jones try but they completely nullified Ireland's attacking game and showed some steel that was absent in the past.

C69 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 7:00 pm Nice cameo by POM on ITV but by feck he sounds Andy Powell levels of shit as pig shit.

Stay classy Swansea

C69 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 6:48 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 6:46 pm Congrats Ireland.

Can't fault the effort of the Scottish team.

They have not had the rub of the green this 6N tbh.
Today was no different.

Ireland dominated but the knock on disadvantage and the line out penalty were Carley at his best.

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 7:03 pm

C69 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 7:00 pm Nice cameo by POM on ITV but by feck he sounds Andy Powell levels of shit as pig shit.

Stay classy Swansea

Powell is from Brecon
Swansea is a bit upmarket for me tbh

Decent game. But the real interest starts in 55 minutes.

C69 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 7:00 pm Nice cameo by POM on ITV but by feck he sounds Andy Powell levels of thick as pig shit.

I actually follow him on Instagram because of our mutual love or gardening. Puts a different light on the lad.

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2024 6:50 pm POM will be up in a minute to say nice things about Scotland.

And he did!!!!

Christie amd Cummings will be sore. Over 50 tackles between them.

Weird little stat. Scotland beat more defenders than Ireland today, despite the difference in possession. Also missed fewer tackles.

Having seen Ireland's second try over and over again now, I am fuming. More and more, it seems like Scotland are being held to a different standard than the other teams.

How is that try awarded? There's blocking, there's holding a potential tackler back, there are three Scots seemingly under the ball, and there's an immediate try decision by Carley.

It is so much less of a sure try than Scotland's against France, which we all know should have been given.

Now I read that Scotland have had only 27 penalties awarded in their favour all championship, but 57 against. They have had periods when all the pens have gone against them. Yet they haven't been obviously dirtier than the opposition, who have often been allowed to get away with everything (eg Wales late in that match) or have been coached by the ref.

What is the issue? Is it the way the captain speaks to the referee? Probably not as JR isn't skipper anymore. Is it the way the coaches engage (or not) with referees pre-match? Is it a failure, somehow, to respond to the way refs are whistling the match? Or is there something more sinister at play?

Carley yesterday gave three knock-ons when the ball had been dropped backwards. Dickson tried to get him to see something different yesterday, as he had done last week. Perhaps Dickson is the only ref who can see Scotland have been dicked all over all tournament.

For me, Scotland have at least 4 wins from this 6N, so I'm not disheartened, but nor do I get to show joy. Perhaps these actual (2 wins) results will get the team doing everything they can to be strong enough for the officials not to be able to deny them next year.

But do they *really* only do two training sessions a week during the 6N as GT said before game 4? That surprised me.

charltom wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 3:09 pm Having seen Ireland's second try over and over again now, I am fuming. More and more, it seems like Scotland are being held to a different standard than the other teams.

How is that try awarded? There's blocking, there's holding a potential tackler back, there are three Scots seemingly under the ball, and there's an immediate try decision by Carley.

It is so much less of a sure try than Scotland's against France, which we all know should have been given.

Now I read that Scotland have had only 27 penalties awarded in their favour all championship, but 57 against. They have had periods when all the pens have gone against them. Yet they haven't been obviously dirtier than the opposition, who have often been allowed to get away with everything (eg Wales late in that match) or have been coached by the ref.

What is the issue? Is it the way the captain speaks to the referee? Probably not as JR isn't skipper anymore. Is it the way the coaches engage (or not) with referees pre-match? Is it a failure, somehow, to respond to the way refs are whistling the match? Or is there something more sinister at play?

Carley yesterday gave three knock-ons when the ball had been dropped backwards. Dickson tried to get him to see something different yesterday, as he had done last week. Perhaps Dickson is the only ref who can see Scotland have been dicked all over all tournament.

For me, Scotland have at least 4 wins from this 6N, so I'm not disheartened, but nor do I get to show joy. Perhaps these actual (2 wins) results will get the team doing everything they can to be strong enough for the officials not to be able to deny them next year.

But do they *really* only do two training sessions a week during the 6N as GT said before game 4? That surprised me.

You finished 4th in the 6N with 2 wins and 3 defeats.
Hope that helps.

charltom wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 3:09 pm Having seen Ireland's second try over and over again now, I am fuming. More and more, it seems like Scotland are being held to a different standard than the other teams.

How is that try awarded? There's blocking, there's holding a potential tackler back, there are three Scots seemingly under the ball, and there's an immediate try decision by Carley.

It is so much less of a sure try than Scotland's against France, which we all know should have been given.

Now I read that Scotland have had only 27 penalties awarded in their favour all championship, but 57 against. They have had periods when all the pens have gone against them. Yet they haven't been obviously dirtier than the opposition, who have often been allowed to get away with everything (eg Wales late in that match) or have been coached by the ref.

What is the issue? Is it the way the captain speaks to the referee? Probably not as JR isn't skipper anymore. Is it the way the coaches engage (or not) with referees pre-match? Is it a failure, somehow, to respond to the way refs are whistling the match? Or is there something more sinister at play?

Carley yesterday gave three knock-ons when the ball had been dropped backwards. Dickson tried to get him to see something different yesterday, as he had done last week. Perhaps Dickson is the only ref who can see Scotland have been dicked all over all tournament.

For me, Scotland have at least 4 wins from this 6N, so I'm not disheartened, but nor do I get to show joy. Perhaps these actual (2 wins) results will get the team doing everything they can to be strong enough for the officials not to be able to deny them next year.

But do they *really* only do two training sessions a week during the 6N as GT said before game 4? That surprised me.

Similarly we are a Duhan away from 0 from 5.

charltom wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 3:09 pm
More and more, it seems like Scotland are being held to a different standard than the other teams.

For me, Scotland have at least 4 wins from this 6N

Dry your eyes and get a grip of yourself ffs.

The most impressive thing about Scotland this campaign was highlighted by skipper Finn in his post match comments after both the Welsh and French games.

In the former he lambasted the sheer stupidity of them giving away so many penalties in a row and the latter he refused to blame the ref and saying it was in their control to take the importance of those decisions away from the referee.

Externalising your failures, blaming others, be it referees or whoever else, is loser talk. Internalising them and identifying where you as a team need to get to to improve, has the potential to build a real and long lasting winning culture!

Somethign that genuinely surprised me about Finn - fair play to the lad

charltom wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 3:09 pm

But do they *really* only do two training sessions a week during the 6N as GT said before game 4? That surprised me.

Why are you considering a training session, and how many wold you like them to do?

PornDog wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 3:48 pm The most impressive thing about Scotland this campaign was highlighted by skipper Finn in his post match comments after both the Welsh and French games.

In the former he lambasted the sheer stupidity of them giving away so many penalties in a row and the latter he refused to blame the ref and saying it was in their control to take the importance of those decisions away from the referee.

Externalising your failures, blaming others, be it referees or whoever else, is loser talk. Internalising them and identifying where you as a team need to get to to improve, has the potential to build a real and long lasting winning culture!

Somethign that genuinely surprised me about Finn - fair play to the lad

The disparity in penalties is quite astonishing though. I find it difficult to believe it’s a reasonable reflection of the way we play vs the way others do.

charltom wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 3:09 pm Having seen Ireland's second try over and over again now, I am fuming. More and more, it seems like Scotland are being held to a different standard than the other teams.

How is that try awarded? There's blocking, there's holding a potential tackler back, there are three Scots seemingly under the ball, and there's an immediate try decision by Carley.

It is so much less of a sure try than Scotland's against France, which we all know should have been given.

Now I read that Scotland have had only 27 penalties awarded in their favour all championship, but 57 against. They have had periods when all the pens have gone against them. Yet they haven't been obviously dirtier than the opposition, who have often been allowed to get away with everything (eg Wales late in that match) or have been coached by the ref.

What is the issue? Is it the way the captain speaks to the referee? Probably not as JR isn't skipper anymore. Is it the way the coaches engage (or not) with referees pre-match? Is it a failure, somehow, to respond to the way refs are whistling the match? Or is there something more sinister at play?

Carley yesterday gave three knock-ons when the ball had been dropped backwards. Dickson tried to get him to see something different yesterday, as he had done last week. Perhaps Dickson is the only ref who can see Scotland have been dicked all over all tournament.

For me, Scotland have at least 4 wins from this 6N, so I'm not disheartened, but nor do I get to show joy. Perhaps these actual (2 wins) results will get the team doing everything they can to be strong enough for the officials not to be able to deny them next year.

But do they *really* only do two training sessions a week during the 6N as GT said before game 4? That surprised me.

Quality whinge

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 4:08 pm

PornDog wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 3:48 pm The most impressive thing about Scotland this campaign was highlighted by skipper Finn in his post match comments after both the Welsh and French games.

In the former he lambasted the sheer stupidity of them giving away so many penalties in a row and the latter he refused to blame the ref and saying it was in their control to take the importance of those decisions away from the referee.

Externalising your failures, blaming others, be it referees or whoever else, is loser talk. Internalising them and identifying where you as a team need to get to to improve, has the potential to build a real and long lasting winning culture!

Somethign that genuinely surprised me about Finn - fair play to the lad

The disparity in penalties is quite astonishing though. I find it difficult to believe it’s a reasonable reflection of the way we play vs the way others do.

Especially given that Scotland were on -30 for penalties won v conceded, next worst was England on -1, everyone else was positive. As I said on the other thread, that doesn’t make any sense given how close all but one of our games were.

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 3:59 pm

charltom wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 3:09 pm

But do they *really* only do two training sessions a week during the 6N as GT said before game 4? That surprised me.

Why are you considering a training session, and how many wold you like them to do?

GT said it, so the question may be what he considers to be a training session. But it's these guys' job. Surely they should be maximising their time perfecting their moves etc, while still allowing for rest?

If anyone knows the truth of the situation, I'd be interested to hear it.

PornDog wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 3:48 pm The most impressive thing about Scotland this campaign was highlighted by skipper Finn in his post match comments after both the Welsh and French games.

In the former he lambasted the sheer stupidity of them giving away so many penalties in a row and the latter he refused to blame the ref and saying it was in their control to take the importance of those decisions away from the referee.

Externalising your failures, blaming others, be it referees or whoever else, is loser talk. Internalising them and identifying where you as a team need to get to to improve, has the potential to build a real and long lasting winning culture!

Somethign that genuinely surprised me about Finn - fair play to the lad

It was good to hear him say those things, that's true. Scottish players as a whole don't tend to moan much about referees' decisions; not like I've seen Sexton, Biggar etc. do. They're very traditional that way. I'd be sad if they needed to start doing it.

charltom wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 5:28 pm

PornDog wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 3:48 pm The most impressive thing about Scotland this campaign was highlighted by skipper Finn in his post match comments after both the Welsh and French games.

In the former he lambasted the sheer stupidity of them giving away so many penalties in a row and the latter he refused to blame the ref and saying it was in their control to take the importance of those decisions away from the referee.

Externalising your failures, blaming others, be it referees or whoever else, is loser talk. Internalising them and identifying where you as a team need to get to to improve, has the potential to build a real and long lasting winning culture!

Somethign that genuinely surprised me about Finn - fair play to the lad

It was good to hear him say those things, that's true. Scottish players as a whole don't tend to moan much about referees' decisions; not like I've seen Sexton, Biggar etc. do. They're very traditional that way. I'd be sad if they needed to start doing it.

I wonder if that’s it. Other teams have multiple players constantly appealing and moaning.

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 5:33 pm

charltom wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 5:28 pm

PornDog wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 3:48 pm The most impressive thing about Scotland this campaign was highlighted by skipper Finn in his post match comments after both the Welsh and French games.

In the former he lambasted the sheer stupidity of them giving away so many penalties in a row and the latter he refused to blame the ref and saying it was in their control to take the importance of those decisions away from the referee.

Externalising your failures, blaming others, be it referees or whoever else, is loser talk. Internalising them and identifying where you as a team need to get to to improve, has the potential to build a real and long lasting winning culture!

Somethign that genuinely surprised me about Finn - fair play to the lad

It was good to hear him say those things, that's true. Scottish players as a whole don't tend to moan much about referees' decisions; not like I've seen Sexton, Biggar etc. do. They're very traditional that way. I'd be sad if they needed to start doing it.

I wonder if that’s it. Other teams have multiple players constantly appealing and moaning.

But then when Jamie Ritchie did it, he got marched back. As captain!

charltom wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 5:28 pm

PornDog wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 3:48 pm The most impressive thing about Scotland this campaign was highlighted by skipper Finn in his post match comments after both the Welsh and French games.

In the former he lambasted the sheer stupidity of them giving away so many penalties in a row and the latter he refused to blame the ref and saying it was in their control to take the importance of those decisions away from the referee.

Externalising your failures, blaming others, be it referees or whoever else, is loser talk. Internalising them and identifying where you as a team need to get to to improve, has the potential to build a real and long lasting winning culture!

Somethign that genuinely surprised me about Finn - fair play to the lad

It was good to hear him say those things, that's true. Scottish players as a whole don't tend to moan much about referees' decisions; not like I've seen Sexton, Biggar etc. do. They're very traditional that way. I'd be sad if they needed to start doing it.

Shame their "we won 4 games really" supporters can't follow their example.

charltom wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 5:38 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 5:33 pm

charltom wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 5:28 pm

It was good to hear him say those things, that's true. Scottish players as a whole don't tend to moan much about referees' decisions; not like I've seen Sexton, Biggar etc. do. They're very traditional that way. I'd be sad if they needed to start doing it.

I wonder if that’s it. Other teams have multiple players constantly appealing and moaning.

But then when Jamie Ritchie did it, he got marched back. As captain!

Refs regularly send back captains if they don't want to hear from them. You're seeing a conspiracy that simply doesn't exist.

The notion that Scottish players don't constantly appeal and moan like other nations is just darling.

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 7:07 pm

charltom wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 5:28 pm

PornDog wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 3:48 pm The most impressive thing about Scotland this campaign was highlighted by skipper Finn in his post match comments after both the Welsh and French games.

In the former he lambasted the sheer stupidity of them giving away so many penalties in a row and the latter he refused to blame the ref and saying it was in their control to take the importance of those decisions away from the referee.

Externalising your failures, blaming others, be it referees or whoever else, is loser talk. Internalising them and identifying where you as a team need to get to to improve, has the potential to build a real and long lasting winning culture!

Somethign that genuinely surprised me about Finn - fair play to the lad

It was good to hear him say those things, that's true. Scottish players as a whole don't tend to moan much about referees' decisions; not like I've seen Sexton, Biggar etc. do. They're very traditional that way. I'd be sad if they needed to start doing it.

Shame their "we won 4 games really" supporters can't follow their example.

Hilarious.

I've held my tongue for years while the rub of the green has gone against Scotland. Don't expect that always to be the case anymore, at least until there is something approaching fairness. It's gone too far. I hope you never have to see so much given against your team, so regularly.

I don't have any influence on how Scotland approach matches in this sport, so I'll moan if I want to.

I'm delighted to see Finn and co take the "we must get better" approach. And I hope Scotland employ a referee who can liaise with the refs' fraternity in future. But it shouldn't be needed.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 8:38 pm

charltom wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 5:38 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 5:33 pm

I wonder if that’s it. Other teams have multiple players constantly appealing and moaning.

But then when Jamie Ritchie did it, he got marched back. As captain!

Refs regularly send back captains if they don't want to hear from them. You're seeing a conspiracy that simply doesn't exist.

Not send back the captain. March back the team. A rarity in internationals.

charltom wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 8:50 pm I've held my tongue for years while the rub of the green has gone against Scotland.

Ah sure you're a Saint so you are!

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 8:38 pm

charltom wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 5:38 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 5:33 pm

I wonder if that’s it. Other teams have multiple players constantly appealing and moaning.

But then when Jamie Ritchie did it, he got marched back. As captain!

Refs regularly send back captains if they don't want to hear from them. You're seeing a conspiracy that simply doesn't exist.

The notion that Scottish players don't constantly appeal and moan like other nations is just darling.

I'm not going to moan about refs.

In saying that, it is an extraordinary stat that deserves looking into imo.

I will also highlight two anomalies to your first sentence above.

In the SvI game, quite early on, one of the Irish players came into a ruck from an offside position and stood over the ball preventing our 9 from getting quick ball away. The ref shouted at him to get back (why? Just ping him), the player then started pleading his case and they had a wee chat, all the while the ball was blocked by him and we couldn't get it away. It was madness.

In the England game, was it Jamie George who kept going back to the ref to make a point after being told 3 or 4 times to go away? Again, why?

Also, regarding your second point, that is actually a thing. We have been noticing it for years. Call it gamesmanship, call it clever, but we just don't play the ref like other teams. I like it from a rugby point of view but it does undoubtable go against us.

https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/matchstats ... gue=180659

The attacking stats make it look a lot more even than it appeared to me at the time. I wrote on another bored that we hadn't looked like scoring all game, about 30 seconds before Huw Jones broke through for a lovely solo effort.

The penalty count against Scotland across the tournament is remarkable, but let's face it, if any other team had those figures we'd be telling them that they should sharpen up their discipline. There is no way different referees over five games have it in for Scotland.

I get as "moaning-pussed git" as anyone over refs during a game, but whenever I watch it back I almost always see that the majority of the decisions are correct, even when I go in the following week over one or two decisions that are blatantly wrong, the majority of them are correct.
Someone either here or elsewhere pointed out that the Wales 7 paints a very good picture to the ref, the hands that are one the ground are hidden by his body from the Ref's point of view. I don't know if that is possible, to be that aware of where the ref is when he's going for the jackal, but in any event he is very smart about how he does it. Our groundhog, Darge, wasn't firing anywhere near that level throughout the tournament.

For me the take away from Scotland's tournament is that we don't have the back five of the pack necessary to give Finn the space that even one of the very best fly halves in the world needs to unlock defences, certainly not when you're spending an hour or more in your own 22, as it seemed like against Ireland. If you get on the front foot you are not forced into trying Hail Mary moves like Kinghorn's offload off the deck which led to an Irish try a few penalties later.
The lack of focus and will to win is also part of the discipline problem that Scotland face, it's not that long since Nasi Manu signed for Edinburgh and was gobsmacked that we didn't have a specialist coach for the mental prep for games. Edinburgh didn't have a specialist lineout coach before Cockerill came in, that level of amateurish preparation still shows, imo.
I don't think all of it is down to the individual players (not that we have much choice in who we pick, there is a big drop off in most positions bar centres), but hose individual players have to get better.

btw, I don't think I congratulated Ireland on Saturday, well done, Ireland were the best team over the tournament by a fair margin, I thought.


For me France were the most disappointing, with the squad they have they should be doing a lot better.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 10:35 am I get as "moaning-pussed git" as anyone over refs during a game, but whenever I watch it back I almost always see that the majority of the decisions are correct, even when I go in the following week over one or two decisions that are blatantly wrong, the majority of them are correct.

Indeed. In the heat of passion (insert Yeeb jibe here) I make highly questionable calls about refs/plays, but on calm reflection (or even just the initial replay) you can clearly see why the ref made the decision they did, even if you might still have a different view.

Fact is about 80% of rucks have at least one violation from each team, usually multiple. In the moment you tend to see the ones the oppo are guilty of, while not seeing your own team's ones.

There's always what ifs and I get that (I still think Whitelocks turnover in the QF could easily have gone the other way for not releasing), but that's rugby. Just because the call COULD have gone the other way doesn't mean that there is some kind of injustice. If you can't take it on the chin then go follow football, or tennis.

Don’t know if anyone has listened to today’s BBC podcast, but Warburton’s comments on Scotland’s attitude/mindset are very interesting and chime with something I’d been struggling to articulate for a bit.

PornDog wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 12:38 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 10:35 am I get as "moaning-pussed git" as anyone over refs during a game, but whenever I watch it back I almost always see that the majority of the decisions are correct, even when I go in the following week over one or two decisions that are blatantly wrong, the majority of them are correct.

Indeed. In the heat of passion (insert Yeeb jibe here) I make highly questionable calls about refs/plays, but on calm reflection (or even just the initial replay) you can clearly see why the ref made the decision they did, even if you might still have a different view.

Fact is about 80% of rucks have at least one violation from each team, usually multiple. In the moment you tend to see the ones the oppo are guilty of, while not seeing your own team's ones.

There's always what ifs and I get that (I still think Whitelocks turnover in the QF could easily have gone the other way for not releasing), but that's rugby. Just because the call COULD have gone the other way doesn't mean that there is some kind of injustice. If you can't take it on the chin then go follow football, or tennis.

What the fuck kind of fair, level-headed Rugby forum fans are these????

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 1:30 pm Don’t know if anyone has listened to today’s BBC podcast, but Warburton’s comments on Scotland’s attitude/mindset are very interesting and chime with something I’d been struggling to articulate for a bit.

I understand what he is saying, but I also think there is a little bit of unconscious belittling going on.

Celebrating winning a single game as if it were a fantastic achievement is not a good look. Unless winning a game is something you rarely do, in which case it is. See italy against Wales two years ago.

Winning a single game in Wales is no big deal. Unless it is something that has not been achieved for decades.

If someone plays for a team whose currency is championships and Grand Slams, merely winning a game is nothing to celebrate. For a less successful team it is much more important, especially if it is something that is in itself a rare achievement.

Scotland players celebrating things other teams take for granted is not necessarily a bad thing where such success is rare for them. However I do think there is an element of breaking some hoodoo or other, then resting on their laurels rather than using that as a platform to kick on from.

weegie01 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 10:23 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 1:30 pm Don’t know if anyone has listened to today’s BBC podcast, but Warburton’s comments on Scotland’s attitude/mindset are very interesting and chime with something I’d been struggling to articulate for a bit.

I understand what he is saying, but I also think there is a little bit of unconscious belittling going on.

Celebrating winning a single game as if it were a fantastic achievement is not a good look. Unless winning a game is something you rarely do, in which case it is. See italy against Wales two years ago.

Winning a single game in Wales is no big deal. Unless it is something that has not been achieved for decades.

If someone plays for a team whose currency is championships and Grand Slams, merely winning a game is nothing to celebrate. For a less successful team it is much more important, especially if it is something that is in itself a rare achievement.

Scotland players celebrating things other teams take for granted is not necessarily a bad thing where such success is rare for them. However I do think there is an element of breaking some hoodoo or other, then resting on their laurels rather than using that as a platform to kick on from.

Yeah that was something the comms said at the end of the Wales Italy game, the difference in celebration from the Italians now to two years ago was remarkable.

I haven’t heard the podcast btw, was that the sum of what Warburton said, that Scotland did the proverbial lap of honour after winning a corner?

Tbf the Italians won the game 2 years ago after scoring the match winning try at the end, with the conversion needed to win it (I think), while this year they conceded a try at the very end.

So at least in my head, the tempered celebrations this year makes sense given the different contexts.

Jim Lahey wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 7:41 am Tbf the Italians won the game 2 years ago after scoring the match winning try at the end, with the conversion needed to win it (I think), while this year they conceded a try at the very end.

So at least in my head, the tempered celebrations this year makes sense given the different contexts.

The match two years ago was their first win in Wales, only the third time they’d beaten them anywhere for 15 years and it ended a 36 match losing streak, the dramatic, some might say poetic nature of the win was the icing on the cake

weegie01 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 10:23 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 1:30 pm Don’t know if anyone has listened to today’s BBC podcast, but Warburton’s comments on Scotland’s attitude/mindset are very interesting and chime with something I’d been struggling to articulate for a bit.

I understand what he is saying, but I also think there is a little bit of unconscious belittling going on.

Celebrating winning a single game as if it were a fantastic achievement is not a good look. Unless winning a game is something you rarely do, in which case it is. See italy against Wales two years ago.

Winning a single game in Wales is no big deal. Unless it is something that has not been achieved for decades.

If someone plays for a team whose currency is championships and Grand Slams, merely winning a game is nothing to celebrate. For a less successful team it is much more important, especially if it is something that is in itself a rare achievement.

Scotland players celebrating things other teams take for granted is not necessarily a bad thing where such success is rare for them. However I do think there is an element of breaking some hoodoo or other, then resting on their laurels rather than using that as a platform to kick on from.

Scotland should be well, well beyond celebrating one off wins by now. Wales got past this far more quickly in the mid 2000s, and the difference in results speaks for itself

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2024 8:30 am

weegie01 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 10:23 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2024 1:30 pm Don’t know if anyone has listened to today’s BBC podcast, but Warburton’s comments on Scotland’s attitude/mindset are very interesting and chime with something I’d been struggling to articulate for a bit.

I understand what he is saying, but I also think there is a little bit of unconscious belittling going on.

Celebrating winning a single game as if it were a fantastic achievement is not a good look. Unless winning a game is something you rarely do, in which case it is. See italy against Wales two years ago.

Winning a single game in Wales is no big deal. Unless it is something that has not been achieved for decades.

If someone plays for a team whose currency is championships and Grand Slams, merely winning a game is nothing to celebrate. For a less successful team it is much more important, especially if it is something that is in itself a rare achievement.

Scotland players celebrating things other teams take for granted is not necessarily a bad thing where such success is rare for them. However I do think there is an element of breaking some hoodoo or other, then resting on their laurels rather than using that as a platform to kick on from.

Scotland should be well, well beyond celebrating one off wins by now. Wales got past this far more quickly in the mid 2000s, and the difference in results speaks for itself

Maybe when we win more we’ll be beyond celebrating one off wins. The team don’t expect to beat anyone in the 6N or big three from the SH.