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Absolutely. Those of a West coast persuasion may be smug about the result today, and fair enough, but from a Scotland perspective it’s worrying that Edinburgh are so much less than the sum of their parts.
Bradbury hurt himself in a clean out. Charged in just as the weegie player got to his feet and got a shoulder to the face..inactionman wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2024 9:27 pm What happened to Bradbury? Out of the corner of my eye it looked like he got hit on the head by someone clearing him? It wasn't shown on replay - the big screens went into reset mode just as it happened, the ref seemed to be checking something with TMO but I've not got a scoobie what it was.
Anyway, Glasgow looked a league ahead of Edinburgh, the backs in particular looked threatening every time. VDM and Graham got very little ball in space, but a bit concerned that VDM didn't really go looking for it. One great break, mind, deserved a score off that alone.
Hampden is an arse to get away from, and the queue for beers was mental - those whinges aside (and more of a rolled eyes as the awful music every 5 minutes) it's a decent venue and a very good crowd for rugby, pushing 30k.
Bradbury has been poor this season. Crosbie is supposed to be a 7, but I think he would do a better job than Bradbury at 8. And Muncaster of course.I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2024 5:39 pmBradbury should be nowhere near Edinburgh. Not in the Scotland picture, not that good for Edinburgh in his last spell. But was doing well at Bristol because he had to apply himself. A shame really.Big D wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2024 3:29 pmThose should be prerequisites for any team really. Watch Bradbury for the second try. Wasn't far off avoiding making any sort of tackle rather than having any sort of aggression about his play.
Look at that last play there. Decent hit up by Tuipulotu. Then they slow the ball down to box kick it. They are such a poorly coached team.
He sums Edinburgh up, fancied schoolboy and age grade player. Comes through and has a few good years, capped for Scotland and so coasts for Edinburgh and is crap. Has to apply himself at Bristol as he's not picked on a reputation he no longer deserves and bizarrely finds himself back at Edinburgh where he's crap again.robmatic wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 7:35 amBradbury has been poor this season. Crosbie is supposed to be a 7, but I think he would do a better job than Bradbury at 8. And Muncaster of course.I like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2024 5:39 pmBradbury should be nowhere near Edinburgh. Not in the Scotland picture, not that good for Edinburgh in his last spell. But was doing well at Bristol because he had to apply himself. A shame really.Big D wrote: ↑Sun Dec 22, 2024 3:29 pm
Those should be prerequisites for any team really. Watch Bradbury for the second try. Wasn't far off avoiding making any sort of tackle rather than having any sort of aggression about his play.
Look at that last play there. Decent hit up by Tuipulotu. Then they slow the ball down to box kick it. They are such a poorly coached team.
As much as I always want to see Glasgow win that display from Edinburgh really pi$$ed me off yesterday. Was utterly pathetic. Thankfully we all know that when Gilchrist, Darcy, Duhan and Jamie Ritchie pull on a blue shirt they are like different players.
No reasons for smugness, this was too much of a routine win to feel anything. We'll see what Edinburgh do at Murrayfield, they won't be that bad again although the coaches will have to come up with a completely different game plan. Which is not easy with a 5-day turnaround.SomersetJock wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 8:41 amAs much as I always want to see Glasgow win that display from Edinburgh really pi$$ed me off yesterday. Was utterly pathetic. Thankfully we all know that when Gilchrist, Darcy, Duhan and Jamie Ritchie pull on a blue shirt they are like different players.
What is so wrong with the culture at Edinburgh that they cannot replicate what Glasgow have despite having a very good squad of players !
Do they need an Al Kellock, if so who would be Edinburghs likely candidate?
I’ve not got any inside info but there is enough evidence from watching them play to agree with what you, and the players are anything like full of themselves. It looks to me that they could do with a bit of swagger and belief in themselves as there is no doubting their talents.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:44 am When I looked through the team lists there genuinely weren't that many from Glasgow that I'd take over their Edinburgh counterparts - I'd certainly take the halfbacks and midfield, which I suppose is the most important part of the team. Having said that I think the younger Tuipulotu and Currie could be a very good partnership, they are both 23 so have lots of rugby ahead of them.
I think even Disco's prematch round up gave advantage to Edinburgh outside of numbers 9 to 13, so I'm not alone in seeing it on paper
Glasgow were very good at slowing Edinburgh's ball down, that is very much part of the game so this isn't a complaint other than a complaint against Edinburgh's inability to generate quick ball. Glasgow's attack was well-drilled, ruthless and outpaced the defence. They played what was in front of them but the options opened up because of how they cut the line, then it was a case of looking for support, which was there every time.
In contrast Edinburgh's "attack" gave the opposition all the time in the world to set up and knock 'em down.
Going back to looking through the team sheets, the part I'd bite your hand off for is the entire coaching team, not just Smith.
To me Charlie Shiel looks like a complete waste of a very talented player. I have no idea why successive coaches have kept him cutting his team mates' hair rather than playing. He has real zip to his pass, he used to have a break in him like Horne and Dobie, but that seems to have been coached out of him.
Game management? Get him behind a pack generating quick ball and you'll see all the game management you need.
He's not the only scrum half, or indeed 10, to have had a career go down the tubes at Edinburgh. Most of the senior players have moved on now, the only one left is Gilchrist. Are people really suggesting that the entire culture of mediocrity is down to just that one guy? The guy who is always good for Scotland?
edit, I'm loathed to post this because I'm not going to name names, but here it is. I have heard from a horse's mouth that the culture at Edinburgh is not what some people think - that Edinburgh players are swanning about thinking they're something great when they are not, it's quite the opposite.
It's apparently very different with Scotland which is upbeat and positive.
Duhan looks perma-pissed off in an Edinburgh shirtSomersetJock wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 10:32 amI’ve not got any inside info but there is enough evidence from watching them play to agree with what you, and the players are anything like full of themselves. It looks to me that they could do with a bit of swagger and belief in themselves as there is no doubting their talents.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:44 am When I looked through the team lists there genuinely weren't that many from Glasgow that I'd take over their Edinburgh counterparts - I'd certainly take the halfbacks and midfield, which I suppose is the most important part of the team. Having said that I think the younger Tuipulotu and Currie could be a very good partnership, they are both 23 so have lots of rugby ahead of them.
I think even Disco's prematch round up gave advantage to Edinburgh outside of numbers 9 to 13, so I'm not alone in seeing it on paper
Glasgow were very good at slowing Edinburgh's ball down, that is very much part of the game so this isn't a complaint other than a complaint against Edinburgh's inability to generate quick ball. Glasgow's attack was well-drilled, ruthless and outpaced the defence. They played what was in front of them but the options opened up because of how they cut the line, then it was a case of looking for support, which was there every time.
In contrast Edinburgh's "attack" gave the opposition all the time in the world to set up and knock 'em down.
Going back to looking through the team sheets, the part I'd bite your hand off for is the entire coaching team, not just Smith.
To me Charlie Shiel looks like a complete waste of a very talented player. I have no idea why successive coaches have kept him cutting his team mates' hair rather than playing. He has real zip to his pass, he used to have a break in him like Horne and Dobie, but that seems to have been coached out of him.
Game management? Get him behind a pack generating quick ball and you'll see all the game management you need.
He's not the only scrum half, or indeed 10, to have had a career go down the tubes at Edinburgh. Most of the senior players have moved on now, the only one left is Gilchrist. Are people really suggesting that the entire culture of mediocrity is down to just that one guy? The guy who is always good for Scotland?
edit, I'm loathed to post this because I'm not going to name names, but here it is. I have heard from a horse's mouth that the culture at Edinburgh is not what some people think - that Edinburgh players are swanning about thinking they're something great when they are not, it's quite the opposite.
It's apparently very different with Scotland which is upbeat and positive.
Gilchrist's pre match interview yesterday struck me as someone who wasn’t enjoying his rugby atm and was almost too serious. Kyle Steyn on the other hand was doing it with a smile on his face. I know things are easier when results are going your way, but the Edinburgh boys need to find a way to enjoy pulling the shirt on again !
And yet he stays, as do the rest of them.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 10:36 amDuhan looks perma-pissed off in an Edinburgh shirtSomersetJock wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 10:32 amI’ve not got any inside info but there is enough evidence from watching them play to agree with what you, and the players are anything like full of themselves. It looks to me that they could do with a bit of swagger and belief in themselves as there is no doubting their talents.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 9:44 am When I looked through the team lists there genuinely weren't that many from Glasgow that I'd take over their Edinburgh counterparts - I'd certainly take the halfbacks and midfield, which I suppose is the most important part of the team. Having said that I think the younger Tuipulotu and Currie could be a very good partnership, they are both 23 so have lots of rugby ahead of them.
I think even Disco's prematch round up gave advantage to Edinburgh outside of numbers 9 to 13, so I'm not alone in seeing it on paper
Glasgow were very good at slowing Edinburgh's ball down, that is very much part of the game so this isn't a complaint other than a complaint against Edinburgh's inability to generate quick ball. Glasgow's attack was well-drilled, ruthless and outpaced the defence. They played what was in front of them but the options opened up because of how they cut the line, then it was a case of looking for support, which was there every time.
In contrast Edinburgh's "attack" gave the opposition all the time in the world to set up and knock 'em down.
Going back to looking through the team sheets, the part I'd bite your hand off for is the entire coaching team, not just Smith.
To me Charlie Shiel looks like a complete waste of a very talented player. I have no idea why successive coaches have kept him cutting his team mates' hair rather than playing. He has real zip to his pass, he used to have a break in him like Horne and Dobie, but that seems to have been coached out of him.
Game management? Get him behind a pack generating quick ball and you'll see all the game management you need.
He's not the only scrum half, or indeed 10, to have had a career go down the tubes at Edinburgh. Most of the senior players have moved on now, the only one left is Gilchrist. Are people really suggesting that the entire culture of mediocrity is down to just that one guy? The guy who is always good for Scotland?
edit, I'm loathed to post this because I'm not going to name names, but here it is. I have heard from a horse's mouth that the culture at Edinburgh is not what some people think - that Edinburgh players are swanning about thinking they're something great when they are not, it's quite the opposite.
It's apparently very different with Scotland which is upbeat and positive.
Gilchrist's pre match interview yesterday struck me as someone who wasn’t enjoying his rugby atm and was almost too serious. Kyle Steyn on the other hand was doing it with a smile on his face. I know things are easier when results are going your way, but the Edinburgh boys need to find a way to enjoy pulling the shirt on again !
But not for the reason you think
I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:50 amPresumably because the SRU pay more than other bidders.
They are too comfortable at Edinburgh, they never perform for their clubs, or their can't get a contract elsewhere but might be needed for Scotland, and so the SRU give them a bigger contract than any other club.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 12:20 pmI like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 11:50 amPresumably because the SRU pay more than other bidders.
There is a perception among some fans that the players have an inflated idea of their abilities and that they coast at Edinburgh. There have been stories in the past that was the case - all the talk about comfort zones etc. Some think it's the easy option for players to stay at Edinburgh, but that is a surface-only view of things.
The frustration you can see written all over the players' faces is a more accurate view of what it's like on the inside - these players do want to win, to improve, to grow a winning culture and environment. They say success breeds success but the opposite is also true and Edinburgh are in a downward spiral. There was a brief respite when Mike Blair took over but he was not leadership material, he said as much himself and it soon degenerated down to a losing culture again under his watch.
The difference between Danny Wilson and Franco Smith is a good example of how much difference the right person in charge can make at a club. It took a 76-14 humping to get Wilson to jump. I hope we don't need to wait for that at Edinburgh.
I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 12:27 pm
Edinburgh were on an upwards spiral with Cockers until the lockdowns.
Okay... What happened the year after? Maybe 2020 you know the year of the lockdown? Top of their conference in March was it? I'd describe that as upwards progession?Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 12:56 pmI like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 12:27 pm
Edinburgh were on an upwards spiral with Cockers until the lockdowns.
Cockerill's Edinburgh finished the 18/19 season on 51 points, over the two pools that left them 10th out of 14, ahead of Cheetahs, Zebre, Dragons and Southern Kings.
Edinburgh had a decent season, a really shite season and a good season under Cockerill. I'd struggle to call that an upwards spiral - no one wanted to play for him by the end of it, his "shelf life " as you put it had expired, certain B&I Lions players left the club because of him and he shifted the future Scotland captain Rory Darge along the road to Glasgow - well played CockersI like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 1:25 pmOkay... What happened the year after? Maybe 2020 you know the year of the lockdown? Top of their conference in March was it? I'd describe that as upwards progession?Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 12:56 pmI like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 12:27 pm
Edinburgh were on an upwards spiral with Cockers until the lockdowns.
Cockerill's Edinburgh finished the 18/19 season on 51 points, over the two pools that left them 10th out of 14, ahead of Cheetahs, Zebre, Dragons and Southern Kings.
I really enjoyed Blair's first season. But players then downed tools because that's what they do. Doesn't matter the coach, doesn't matter the style, they'll do well, then fall apart.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 1:38 pmEdinburgh had a decent season, a really shite season and a good season under Cockerill. I'd struggle to call that an upwards spiral - no one wanted to play for him by the end of it, his "shelf life " as you put it had expired, certain B&I Lions players left the club because of him and he shifted the future Scotland captain Rory Darge along the road to Glasgow - well played CockersI like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 1:25 pmOkay... What happened the year after? Maybe 2020 you know the year of the lockdown? Top of their conference in March was it? I'd describe that as upwards progession?
The rugby they were playing was much better the following year under Mike Blair . We lost a quarter final away to Stormers in a game I thought we could have won.
Loving watching Mann at the moment, looks very good indeeddpedin wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 10:25 am For me that game demonstrated very clearly the difference a very good coach makes v a very poor coach. I have never been a fan of Everitt and yesterday that game showed up everything I think is wrong about his appointment. He has taken Embra back to the Bradley/Solomon days with their limited 20 year old game plan. Neither Thompson nor Healy looked like they had a clue when they came on, constantly looking around for the next pass of first and second phase ball - a sure sign of the lack of preparation and poor coaching. They are not bad players but trying to play 10 in this Embra team makes them look like idiots. Franco on the other hand shows just what a difference a proper serious coach makes not just to the game plan but to the whole culture and environment within a club. Every player in his team knows his job, never takes a step back, trust their skills and ability to deliver and trust their teammates to be where they should be. They play with pace, confidence and exuberance whereas Embra looked stale, disorganized and not sure how to attack with the ball. For me the biggest step forward by Franco is the trust he has put n his young forwards who all suddenly look like budding internationalists, For me Mann is developing into a real exciting player and needs game time to show his true level, having said that Muncaster looked excellent when he came on. Perhaps the SRU should look into cloning Franco?
I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 2:50 pmI really enjoyed Blair's first season. But players then downed tools because that's what they do. Doesn't matter the coach, doesn't matter the style, they'll do well, then fall apart.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 1:38 pmEdinburgh had a decent season, a really shite season and a good season under Cockerill. I'd struggle to call that an upwards spiral - no one wanted to play for him by the end of it, his "shelf life " as you put it had expired, certain B&I Lions players left the club because of him and he shifted the future Scotland captain Rory Darge along the road to Glasgow - well played CockersI like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 1:25 pm
Okay... What happened the year after? Maybe 2020 you know the year of the lockdown? Top of their conference in March was it? I'd describe that as upwards progession?
The rugby they were playing was much better the following year under Mike Blair . We lost a quarter final away to Stormers in a game I thought we could have won.
So the environment being negative and they're all miserable is hopefully true (they're performances suggest the environment should be miserable). But still, they never leave. Duhan didn't leave, Bradbury came back, the same players are all there. They can't escape criticism for a lack of professionalism.
IIRC it became clear that Balir didn't want to be there and he wa openly saying HCing wasn't for him. The whole lot of them were at fault there.I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 2:50 pmI really enjoyed Blair's first season. But players then downed tools because that's what they do. Doesn't matter the coach, doesn't matter the style, they'll do well, then fall apart.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 1:38 pmEdinburgh had a decent season, a really shite season and a good season under Cockerill. I'd struggle to call that an upwards spiral - no one wanted to play for him by the end of it, his "shelf life " as you put it had expired, certain B&I Lions players left the club because of him and he shifted the future Scotland captain Rory Darge along the road to Glasgow - well played CockersI like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 1:25 pm
Okay... What happened the year after? Maybe 2020 you know the year of the lockdown? Top of their conference in March was it? I'd describe that as upwards progession?
The rugby they were playing was much better the following year under Mike Blair . We lost a quarter final away to Stormers in a game I thought we could have won.
So the environment being negative and they're all miserable is hopefully true (they're performances suggest the environment should be miserable). But still, they never leave. Duhan didn't leave, Bradbury came back, the same players are all there. They can't escape criticism for a lack of professionalism.
Last point is the problem. Edinburgh is still, as Cockerill put it, a holding pen for Scotland Internationals. The coach will never have full control of his squad.Big D wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 3:56 pmIIRC it became clear that Balir didn't want to be there and he wa openly saying HCing wasn't for him. The whole lot of them were at fault there.I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 2:50 pmI really enjoyed Blair's first season. But players then downed tools because that's what they do. Doesn't matter the coach, doesn't matter the style, they'll do well, then fall apart.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 1:38 pm
Edinburgh had a decent season, a really shite season and a good season under Cockerill. I'd struggle to call that an upwards spiral - no one wanted to play for him by the end of it, his "shelf life " as you put it had expired, certain B&I Lions players left the club because of him and he shifted the future Scotland captain Rory Darge along the road to Glasgow - well played Cockers
The rugby they were playing was much better the following year under Mike Blair . We lost a quarter final away to Stormers in a game I thought we could have won.
So the environment being negative and they're all miserable is hopefully true (they're performances suggest the environment should be miserable). But still, they never leave. Duhan didn't leave, Bradbury came back, the same players are all there. They can't escape criticism for a lack of professionalism.
Some of the senior players need binned or told 6 on their last chance.
A new coach needs to be someone the SRU give the authority to clean house to.
Other than the CEO preferring to pocket all the cash, has there ever been any serious thought from the SRU from properly investing in London Scottish, restoring them to former glories, and using it as an extra development team? It’s terribly run (always has been) but must still be more viable than a third first class team in Scotland.Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 4:56 pmLast point is the problem. Edinburgh is still, as Cockerill put it, a holding pen for Scotland Internationals. The coach will never have full control of his squad.Big D wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 3:56 pmIIRC it became clear that Balir didn't want to be there and he wa openly saying HCing wasn't for him. The whole lot of them were at fault there.I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 2:50 pm
I really enjoyed Blair's first season. But players then downed tools because that's what they do. Doesn't matter the coach, doesn't matter the style, they'll do well, then fall apart.
So the environment being negative and they're all miserable is hopefully true (they're performances suggest the environment should be miserable). But still, they never leave. Duhan didn't leave, Bradbury came back, the same players are all there. They can't escape criticism for a lack of professionalism.
Some of the senior players need binned or told 6 on their last chance.
A new coach needs to be someone the SRU give the authority to clean house to.
London Scottish is part time. Unless you give them enough money to maintain a full time squad, you're not developing players for pro rugby.Punter15 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 5:25 pmOther than the CEO preferring to pocket all the cash, has there ever been any serious thought from the SRU from properly investing in London Scottish, restoring them to former glories, and using it as an extra development team? It’s terribly run (always has been) but must still be more viable than a third first class team in Scotland.Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 4:56 pmLast point is the problem. Edinburgh is still, as Cockerill put it, a holding pen for Scotland Internationals. The coach will never have full control of his squad.Big D wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 3:56 pm
IIRC it became clear that Balir didn't want to be there and he wa openly saying HCing wasn't for him. The whole lot of them were at fault there.
Some of the senior players need binned or told 6 on their last chance.
A new coach needs to be someone the SRU give the authority to clean house to.
Hence ‘properly investing’.Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 6:11 pmLondon Scottish is part time. Unless you give them enough money to maintain a full time squad, you're not developing players for pro rugby.Punter15 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 5:25 pmOther than the CEO preferring to pocket all the cash, has there ever been any serious thought from the SRU from properly investing in London Scottish, restoring them to former glories, and using it as an extra development team? It’s terribly run (always has been) but must still be more viable than a third first class team in Scotland.
But if you're going to invest that much, you might as well set it up in Scotland. You're effectively setting up another franchise.Punter15 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 6:23 pmHence ‘properly investing’.Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 6:11 pmLondon Scottish is part time. Unless you give them enough money to maintain a full time squad, you're not developing players for pro rugby.Punter15 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 5:25 pm
Other than the CEO preferring to pocket all the cash, has there ever been any serious thought from the SRU from properly investing in London Scottish, restoring them to former glories, and using it as an extra development team? It’s terribly run (always has been) but must still be more viable than a third first class team in Scotland.
It has been talked about for literally decades but never really come close due to vested interests. Story of Scotland reallyPunter15 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 5:25 pmOther than the CEO preferring to pocket all the cash, has there ever been any serious thought from the SRU from properly investing in London Scottish, restoring them to former glories, and using it as an extra development team? It’s terribly run (always has been) but must still be more viable than a third first class team in Scotland.Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 4:56 pmLast point is the problem. Edinburgh is still, as Cockerill put it, a holding pen for Scotland Internationals. The coach will never have full control of his squad.Big D wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 3:56 pm
IIRC it became clear that Balir didn't want to be there and he wa openly saying HCing wasn't for him. The whole lot of them were at fault there.
Some of the senior players need binned or told 6 on their last chance.
A new coach needs to be someone the SRU give the authority to clean house to.
Doesn't need to have full control to clean house though. No coach would get rid of the main players. Someone like Dalziel or Horne who know exactly what GTs plans are could easily get rid of a fair number of players and create space for new blood.Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 4:56 pmLast point is the problem. Edinburgh is still, as Cockerill put it, a holding pen for Scotland Internationals. The coach will never have full control of his squad.Big D wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 3:56 pmIIRC it became clear that Balir didn't want to be there and he wa openly saying HCing wasn't for him. The whole lot of them were at fault there.I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 2:50 pm
I really enjoyed Blair's first season. But players then downed tools because that's what they do. Doesn't matter the coach, doesn't matter the style, they'll do well, then fall apart.
So the environment being negative and they're all miserable is hopefully true (they're performances suggest the environment should be miserable). But still, they never leave. Duhan didn't leave, Bradbury came back, the same players are all there. They can't escape criticism for a lack of professionalism.
Some of the senior players need binned or told 6 on their last chance.
A new coach needs to be someone the SRU give the authority to clean house to.
It doesn't really need a clean out though; although I don't understand how it happens with a set of professional coaches; as Ticht says, it's not so much the lack of a plan, as the lack of a consistency in doing the plan.Big D wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 11:47 pmDoesn't need to have full control to clean house though. No coach would get rid of the main players. Someone like Dalziel or Horne who know exactly what GTs plans are could easily get rid of a fair number of players and create space for new blood.Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 4:56 pmLast point is the problem. Edinburgh is still, as Cockerill put it, a holding pen for Scotland Internationals. The coach will never have full control of his squad.Big D wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 3:56 pm
IIRC it became clear that Balir didn't want to be there and he wa openly saying HCing wasn't for him. The whole lot of them were at fault there.
Some of the senior players need binned or told 6 on their last chance.
A new coach needs to be someone the SRU give the authority to clean house to.
Merry Christmas everyone. Hope it's a good one.
The leadership on the pitch thing is something we’ve often talked about. At games, we’re all close enough now that we can hear the players shouting at each other to get the blood up. But they don’t. The one player I'veseen shouting this season, clapping his hands and shouting ‘cmon boys, discipline!’ was Muncaster. When it’s one of the younger players in his first few seasons is the only one doing it, there’s something wrong.fishfoodie wrote: ↑Wed Dec 25, 2024 12:07 amIt doesn't really need a clean out though; although I don't understand how it happens with a set of professional coaches; as Ticht says, it's not so much the lack of a plan, as the lack of a consistency in doing the plan.Big D wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 11:47 pmDoesn't need to have full control to clean house though. No coach would get rid of the main players. Someone like Dalziel or Horne who know exactly what GTs plans are could easily get rid of a fair number of players and create space for new blood.
Merry Christmas everyone. Hope it's a good one.
Embra don't need a new coach; they need a GSM type who will run the bloody players ragged until they wake up screaming in the night knowing they need to shift right if (a) happens, or left if (b) happens.
They need someone to put the fear of dog in them if they don't do the basics they've been coached in.
Now normally, I'd expect this to happen as much as anything from internal team dynamics; not letting each other down, & knowing when you've done it etc; but I can't say I've ever been particularly impressed by this in Embra, & I'd put it down to the player leadership being lacking. You need players in fwds & backs who lead from the front & can drive this, but not every player wants, or can do this, even if they're otherwise great players.
The positive feedback cycle is also that when you have a team that trusts each other & is aligned on a plan, they cough up fewer stupid penalties, because they know someone else will be there to cover, so they don't need to pull an idiotic move to stop the move, & maybe cop a YC.
There's two former Scotland captains in that pack.Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Dec 25, 2024 9:26 am
The leadership on the pitch thing is something we’ve often talked about. At games, we’re all close enough now that we can hear the players shouting at each other to get the blood up. But they don’t. The one player I'veseen shouting this season, clapping his hands and shouting ‘cmon boys, discipline!’ was Muncaster. When it’s one of the younger players in his first few seasons is the only one doing it, there’s something wrong.
I think Venter would be the principal loosehead at a lot of URC teams. He's been a great signing considering he didn't have much of a pedigree in pro rugby before he came - turned out much better than a lot of the more 'established' NSQ props that we've signed e.g. de Bruin.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Dec 26, 2024 1:14 pm Three year extension deal for Schoey at Edinburgh.
I was just having a look and Venter qualifies for Scotland in just over a year at the start of the '26 6N, he'd be a year older than Schoeman when he qualified, so nothing in prop years. For my money Venter has been the best loosehead playing in Scotland this season. I'd like to see Mikey Jones get game time.
Then on the other side get Rae starting more often and bring on young Ollie B-L.
I agree about Venter - he is rock solid in the scrum and excellent in the loose, really dynamic and aggressive. He is the real deal.robmatic wrote: ↑Fri Dec 27, 2024 7:23 amI think Venter would be the principal loosehead at a lot of URC teams. He's been a great signing considering he didn't have much of a pedigree in pro rugby before he came - turned out much better than a lot of the more 'established' NSQ props that we've signed e.g. de Bruin.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Dec 26, 2024 1:14 pm Three year extension deal for Schoey at Edinburgh.
I was just having a look and Venter qualifies for Scotland in just over a year at the start of the '26 6N, he'd be a year older than Schoeman when he qualified, so nothing in prop years. For my money Venter has been the best loosehead playing in Scotland this season. I'd like to see Mikey Jones get game time.
Then on the other side get Rae starting more often and bring on young Ollie B-L.
Not sure it would be worth it. For it to be a success then the prem needs to be the target and there would be EQ requirements. Spending money potentially developing players for one of the more well off unions when we're skint sounds like a terrible use of resources.Slick wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 10:38 pmIt has been talked about for literally decades but never really come close due to vested interests. Story of Scotland reallyPunter15 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 24, 2024 5:25 pmOther than the CEO preferring to pocket all the cash, has there ever been any serious thought from the SRU from properly investing in London Scottish, restoring them to former glories, and using it as an extra development team? It’s terribly run (always has been) but must still be more viable than a third first class team in Scotland.