NPR

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 3:29 pm**

I’m not sure this could be going any worse. Fucking hell, Darcy and Finn probably out for the match now.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 3:34 pm**

It's going to be one of those days.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 3:36 pm**

Travelling so missing the game. Who came on for Graham? Dobie or Stafford? From reading the reporting seems like moving to Jordan to FB and Kinghorn to wing (if Russell is ok) would be the best move?

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 3:47 pm**

Might turn this off, it’s hopeless.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 3:48 pm**

Big D wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 3:36 pm Travelling so missing the game. Who came on for Graham? Dobie or Stafford? From reading the reporting seems like moving to Jordan to FB and Kinghorn to wing (if Russell is ok) would be the best move?

Russell is not okay.

Jordan to FH
McDowall to IC
Dobbie to wing

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 3:50 pm**

Just have to write this one off as a complete loss.

Complete shambles anyway.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 3:58 pm**

Just off our flight to London and haven't seen any of this but it looks like a disaster. How bloody predictable. I'm sick of these weak pricks failing to throw a punch in every big game apart from the Calcutta Cup.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 3:59 pm**

Can’t believe we are going in only 12 down. That was shit in every single way. Still think we got fucked by Lady Luck in that half despite our shiteness. Fingers crossed that was our inevitable terrible half and we can come out firing in the second half.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 4:13 pm**

The annoying thing is Ireland do sometimes have poor(ish) games, they weren't great against England, they were relatively poor against Australia, but they're never poor against us. Maybe we should see it as a compliment!

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 4:13 pm**

KingBlairhorn wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 3:59 pm Can’t believe we are going in only 12 down. That was shit in every single way. Still think we got fucked by Lady Luck in that half despite our shiteness. Fingers crossed that was our inevitable terrible half and we can come out firing in the second half.

You call him Lady Luck but I think his name is Mr. Referee Sir.

There were a couple of shockers that half, as highlighted by Fagerson.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 4:22 pm**

charltom wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 4:13 pm
KingBlairhorn wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 3:59 pm Can’t believe we are going in only 12 down. That was shit in every single way. Still think we got fucked by Lady Luck in that half despite our shiteness. Fingers crossed that was our inevitable terrible half and we can come out firing in the second half.
You call him Lady Luck but I think his name is Mr. Referee Sir.

There were a couple of shockers that half, as highlighted by Fagerson.

Another wee bit of luck for Ireland there.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 4:31 pm**

And that’s the difference. We are up at their line and they get their wee bit of luck to get away with a deliberate knock-on. Straight down our end and get an easy try.

We all said everything had to go our way to win and it just hasn’t been close to that today.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 4:39 pm**

It’s probably sour grapes but I genuinely think we’ve been really hard done by here. We’ve been shit, but we have got nothing from the ref.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 4:45 pm**

Ah great, zander looking like he might have got an injury there.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 4:47 pm**

KingBlairhorn wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 4:39 pm It’s probably sour grapes but I genuinely think we’ve been really hard done by here. We’ve been shit, but we have got nothing from the ref.

It happens a lot, especially against Ireland.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 5:03 pm**

KingBlairhorn wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 4:39 pm It’s probably sour grapes but I genuinely think we’ve been really hard done by here. We’ve been shit, but we have got nothing from the ref.

Ireland got away with lots at the breakdown.

Don't worry it will swing back your way in two weeks time

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 5:19 pm**

tc27 wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 5:03 pm [quote=KingBlairhorn post_id=393257 time=<a href="tel:1739119170">1739119170</a> user_id=465]
It’s probably sour grapes but I genuinely think we’ve been really hard done by here. We’ve been shit, but we have got nothing from the ref.

Ireland got away with lots at the breakdown.

Don't worry it will swing back your way in two weeks time

[/quote]

I really admire their ability to be rolling away but the turf under them acts as some sort of treadmill and they don’t physically move anywhere !

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 5:24 pm**

SomersetJock wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 5:19 pm
tc27 wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 5:03 pm [quote=KingBlairhorn post_id=393257 time=<a href="tel:1739119170">1739119170</a> user_id=465]
It’s probably sour grapes but I genuinely think we’ve been really hard done by here. We’ve been shit, but we have got nothing from the ref.
Ireland got away with lots at the breakdown.

Don't worry it will swing back your way in two weeks time

I really admire their ability to be rolling away but the turf under them acts as some sort of treadmill and they don’t physically move anywhere !
[/quote]

We used to have a way of deterring that kind of thing

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 5:24 pm**

Well, fuck.

Every time I hope for something different and every time it’s exactly the same. We never manage to give them a real game, ever. Not sure if it’s just that we don’t have it in us, or that, as someone said, Ireland never have an off day against us. Probably both.

Wasn’t watching live which makes it hurt a bit less. But only a bit. Will have to decide if it is too awful to watch now. Suspect it may have been.

So no Graham, possibly no Russell, and maybe no Zander next time? We are properly cursed.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 6:00 pm**

Ireland basically has to do two things to win comfortably:

1) Score early
2) Wrestle back control quickly when we have our wee moment of momentum, ideally with a try

Then we'd crumble mentally. I feel out mental aspect has got better, except vs Ireland and SA. When we play those two teams ghosts come back to haunt and our soft underbelly pokes out.

Tough one to take, so much second best. Darge, who is great, looked a wee bit lost from a captaincy perspective on his own. Obviously he is very green in that regard.

We need to get better with refs. Don't know the penalty count but it felt like 20 vs 5. And Ireland were no saints.

Felt immature, very immature. This team has too many caps for that.

One slight mitigation. They had a lot to deal with, but didn't deal with things very well. Not ready to challenge for the title I'm afraid.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 6:23 pm**

Thanks Toonie, but this is as far as you go. One of a raft of changes I’d make, also involving the U20s, the Fratellis, Macron, and any booze but Tennants.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 7:15 pm**

Strangely subdued atmosphere the whole day.

Firstly, Ireland well deserved winners, beat us everywhere. Once Fin went off it was all over and everyone knew it. It really does show our lack of depth when we lose 2 or 3 1st XV players, who the hell is going to play 10 if he’s not back for England? I guess Jordan but i don’t think he is an international 10.

I’ll keep this to our thread for fear of sour grapes accusations- it’s not really, we were well beaten, again. But I just don’t understand how Ireland get away with everything at the breakdown, we were behind the post in the South stand and could see them slowing the ball over and over again, but the ref standing next to it didn’t call it, and it’s not just todays ref. There was one point where an Ireland played rolled and rolled on the floor from the side of a ruck, over to our side, actually over the ball and then back to the other side and the ref just looked at him.

Surely teams must mention this stuff in their reports, surely the refs must discuss it on a Monday, surely the coaches must ask the ref about it pre game and players during the game, and surely they must see it. Why is it very rarely called, I just dont get it.

One thing I will say, I like watching games from behind the posts and seeing how defences are lined up and where we might attack. I don’t think there was one point today where Ireland weren’t lined up perfectly in defence, it’s very impressive. Although then again it’s easier when the ball is being slowed constantly

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 7:29 pm**

Ireland deserved winners and losing Russell, Graham and Zander is unhelpful.

What really hacks me off is that Ireland seem to have acquired Richie McCaw's cloak of invisibility where officials are concerned, it was so blatant and the officials kept letting them get away with being in the way and obstructing Scottish ball all day game if it wasn't bodies it was hands coming through the ruck. Video killed off McCaws game, I just don't understand why the same isn't applied to the Irish.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 7:33 pm**

It’s like it used to be v New Zealand. The team are beaten in their heads before the game begins. It’s so bloody frustrating I could cry. We at least turned up last year but never really looked like winning. The vast majority of the time we don’t even do that.

I said I feared Ireland would beat us without ever really getting out of third gear. It happened. Again. They don’t need a great performance to beat us. They just need to be OK and we’ll manage to beat ourselves.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 8:18 pm**

Going to also say something I’ve never said before, Toony out.

I think he has done a great job and brought a decade of the probably the most exciting Scotland team in my lifetime, but I’m feeling like this is now the end of the era. That team, much as I still enjoy watching them (mainly), isn’t winning anything. Think it’s probably time for a new start

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 8:24 pm**

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 8:18 pm Going to also say something I’ve never said before, Toony out.

I think he has done a great job and brought a decade of the probably the most exciting Scotland team in my lifetime, but I’m feeling like this is now the end of the era. That team, much as I still enjoy watching them (mainly), isn’t winning anything. Think it’s probably time for a new start

OK but who would you have?
Ideally
Realistically

Think I'd be looking towards ROG or Franco

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 8:27 pm**

dkm57 wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 8:24 pm
Slick wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 8:18 pm Going to also say something I’ve never said before, Toony out.

I think he has done a great job and brought a decade of the probably the most exciting Scotland team in my lifetime, but I’m feeling like this is now the end of the era. That team, much as I still enjoy watching them (mainly), isn’t winning anything. Think it’s probably time for a new start
OK but who would you have?
Ideally
Realistically

Think I'd be looking towards ROG or Franco

I don’t know to be honest. Someone who scares the players a bit. Franco a decent shout, don’t think I could deal with ROG

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 9:03 pm**

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 8:27 pm
dkm57 wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 8:24 pm
Slick wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 8:18 pm Going to also say something I’ve never said before, Toony out.

I think he has done a great job and brought a decade of the probably the most exciting Scotland team in my lifetime, but I’m feeling like this is now the end of the era. That team, much as I still enjoy watching them (mainly), isn’t winning anything. Think it’s probably time for a new start
OK but who would you have?
Ideally
Realistically

Think I'd be looking towards ROG or Franco
I don’t know to be honest. Someone who scares the players a bit. Franco a decent shout, don’t think I could deal with ROG

I agree with you. Toony has improved things in a whole bunch of ways, but despite talent and depth we haven’t had in decades (probably ever) we are not progressing. We can give any team in the world a proper game except Ireland and South Africa. That’s not bad, but it isn’t enough. Failing to win v Ireland is forgivable, but failing to compete with them is not.

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 9:12 pm**

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 8:18 pm Going to also say something I’ve never said before, Toony out.

I think he has done a great job and brought a decade of the probably the most exciting Scotland team in my lifetime, but I’m feeling like this is now the end of the era. That team, much as I still enjoy watching them (mainly), isn’t winning anything. Think it’s probably time for a new start

Completely agree.

Pinching Franco buggers what little development pipeline we have, and no one can understand ROG. Neinaber?

Posted: **Sun Feb 09, 2025 9:50 pm**

Punter15 wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 9:12 pm
Slick wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 8:18 pm Going to also say something I’ve never said before, Toony out.

I think he has done a great job and brought a decade of the probably the most exciting Scotland team in my lifetime, but I’m feeling like this is now the end of the era. That team, much as I still enjoy watching them (mainly), isn’t winning anything. Think it’s probably time for a new start
Completely agree.

Pinching Franco buggers what little development pipeline we have, and no one can understand ROG. Neinaber?

Comes down to timing I think.
If, as looks likely, its a 2 wins from 5 (at best) season.....again then surely it's sackable on the kpi's
Next year is too late as the line will be "don't change the coach a year out from the World Cup". May also be too late as I reckon Franco, if he's seen as a possible, has been spotted and will likely have better offers before then.
Similarly now might be the perfect timing give say Franco 2 years lead in (about what he had in turning Glasgow into champions) and secure his services before someone else does.
Isn't that how Gregor got the Scotland job in the 1st place. The irony.

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2025 3:44 am**

clydecloggie wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 12:49 pm Our games against Ireland since Toonie took over have been either complete blowouts (RWC x2) or lots of honest toil without a second of anyone believing we'd win.

I'm not seeing it going any differently today, so here's to lots of honest toil and congrats Ireland. Unless Edinburgh council go for some unscheduled roadworks pronto.

I don't think Tonaend believes he can beat Ireland.

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2025 7:56 am**

Punter15 wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 9:12 pm
Slick wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 8:18 pm Going to also say something I’ve never said before, Toony out.

I think he has done a great job and brought a decade of the probably the most exciting Scotland team in my lifetime, but I’m feeling like this is now the end of the era. That team, much as I still enjoy watching them (mainly), isn’t winning anything. Think it’s probably time for a new start
Completely agree.

Pinching Franco buggers what little development pipeline we have, and no one can understand ROG. Neinaber?

RoG also wouldn't take the job..

We said the same about Townsend when he took the Scotland job and Glasgow hired Dave Rennie one of the better coaches going.

We don't have the players to beat Ireland, they are too big, too powerful, too accurate and too clinical. Leinster vs Glasgow in a big game would be a similar result sadly.

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2025 8:01 am**

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 7:15 pm Strangely subdued atmosphere the whole day.

Firstly, Ireland well deserved winners, beat us everywhere. Once Fin went off it was all over and everyone knew it. It really does show our lack of depth when we lose 2 or 3 1st XV players, who the hell is going to play 10 if he’s not back for England? I guess Jordan but i don’t think he is an international 10.

I’ll keep this to our thread for fear of sour grapes accusations- it’s not really, we were well beaten, again. But I just don’t understand how Ireland get away with everything at the breakdown, we were behind the post in the South stand and could see them slowing the ball over and over again, but the ref standing next to it didn’t call it, and it’s not just todays ref. There was one point where an Ireland played rolled and rolled on the floor from the side of a ruck, over to our side, actually over the ball and then back to the other side and the ref just looked at him.

Surely teams must mention this stuff in their reports, surely the refs must discuss it on a Monday, surely the coaches must ask the ref about it pre game and players during the game, and surely they must see it. Why is it very rarely called, I just dont get it.

One thing I will say, I like watching games from behind the posts and seeing how defences are lined up and where we might attack. I don’t think there was one point today where Ireland weren’t lined up perfectly in defence, it’s very impressive. Although then again it’s easier when the ball is being slowed constantly

Dominant teams get favourable refereeing decisions. It happens in every sport sadly. If you're going forward in attack and making dominant hits in defence you can fanny about at the ruck and the refs never call it.

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2025 8:32 am**

I like neeps wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2025 7:56 am
Punter15 wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 9:12 pm
Slick wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 8:18 pm Going to also say something I’ve never said before, Toony out.

I think he has done a great job and brought a decade of the probably the most exciting Scotland team in my lifetime, but I’m feeling like this is now the end of the era. That team, much as I still enjoy watching them (mainly), isn’t winning anything. Think it’s probably time for a new start
Completely agree.

Pinching Franco buggers what little development pipeline we have, and no one can understand ROG. Neinaber?
RoG also wouldn't take the job..

We said the same about Townsend when he took the Scotland job and Glasgow hired Dave Rennie one of the better coaches going.

We don't have the players to beat Ireland, they are too big, too powerful, too accurate and too clinical. Leinster vs Glasgow in a big game would be a similar result sadly.

Yeah (re ROG), during his half-time and post-match punditry, I was thinking he has absolutely no respect for Scottish rugby. Would be very hard to convince him to consider the job if offered. Also, he has a surprisingly annoying voice (I've never heard him speak before). Up there with Sean Kelly (cycling on Eurosport). Makes your ears bleed.

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2025 8:40 am**

S/Lt_Phillips wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2025 8:32 am
I like neeps wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2025 7:56 am
Punter15 wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 9:12 pm

Completely agree.

Pinching Franco buggers what little development pipeline we have, and no one can understand ROG. Neinaber?
RoG also wouldn't take the job..

We said the same about Townsend when he took the Scotland job and Glasgow hired Dave Rennie one of the better coaches going.

We don't have the players to beat Ireland, they are too big, too powerful, too accurate and too clinical. Leinster vs Glasgow in a big game would be a similar result sadly.
Yeah (re ROG), during his half-time and post-match punditry, I was thinking he has absolutely no respect for Scottish rugby. Would be very hard to convince him to consider the job if offered. Also, he has a surprisingly annoying voice (I've never heard him speak before). Up there with Sean Kelly (cycling on Eurosport). Makes your ears bleed.

That would be my main reason for not wanting him to be honest, couldn't stand that annoying voice telling us what to do.

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2025 8:47 am**

I like neeps wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2025 7:56 am
Punter15 wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 9:12 pm
Slick wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 8:18 pm Going to also say something I’ve never said before, Toony out.

I think he has done a great job and brought a decade of the probably the most exciting Scotland team in my lifetime, but I’m feeling like this is now the end of the era. That team, much as I still enjoy watching them (mainly), isn’t winning anything. Think it’s probably time for a new start
Completely agree.

Pinching Franco buggers what little development pipeline we have, and no one can understand ROG. Neinaber?
RoG also wouldn't take the job..

We said the same about Townsend when he took the Scotland job and Glasgow hired Dave Rennie one of the better coaches going.

We don't have the players to beat Ireland, they are too big, too powerful, too accurate and too clinical. Leinster vs Glasgow in a big game would be a similar result sadly.

I think this is it really. If we are honest then I think we have had 3 or 4 generational players in the last few years (Hogg, Finn, Jones and Sione), but if one or two of them goes down we are a pretty average team. Some of the expectations that this team should be challenging for Grand Slams and titles every year is just crazy.

I don't think anyone could have done any better than with Toony and it has been a pleasure, in the main, watching this team and it gaining respect for the style of play. I certainly think we have blown chances to win a couple of titles but it will still be looked on as a golden period for us and I think we have some lean years coming fairly soon.

I just think we have been banging away at this for a few years now and it's time for a change at the top and a change in direction. It's the same failings over and over again, so lets try something a bit different.

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2025 8:54 am**

Slick wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2025 8:47 am
I like neeps wrote: Mon Feb 10, 2025 7:56 am
Punter15 wrote: Sun Feb 09, 2025 9:12 pm

Completely agree.

Pinching Franco buggers what little development pipeline we have, and no one can understand ROG. Neinaber?
RoG also wouldn't take the job..

We said the same about Townsend when he took the Scotland job and Glasgow hired Dave Rennie one of the better coaches going.

We don't have the players to beat Ireland, they are too big, too powerful, too accurate and too clinical. Leinster vs Glasgow in a big game would be a similar result sadly.
I think this is it really. If we are honest then I think we have had 3 or 4 generational players in the last few years (Hogg, Finn, Jones and Sione), but if one or two of them goes down we are a pretty average team. Some of the expectations that this team should be challenging for Grand Slams and titles every year is just crazy.

I don't think anyone could have done any better than with Toony and it has been a pleasure, in the main, watching this team and it gaining respect for the style of play. I certainly think we have blown chances to win a couple of titles but it will still be looked on as a golden period for us and I think we have some lean years coming fairly soon.

I just think we have been banging away at this for a few years now and it's time for a change at the top and a change in direction. It's the same failings over and over again, so lets try something a bit different.

I feel these are entirely manufactured however. It's punditry talking points, nobody surely genuinely believes it. I've never spoken to a Scotland fan who has genuinely had the belief we could win the six nations.

The time to fire Townsend was that 2019 rwc disaster. He's done quite well since then. We don't have the horses for test match rugby against Ireland and South Africa. Not much he can do about that.

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2025 8:57 am**

Utterly depressing. Beaten before kick off, with all their media chat the Irish are much more up for that than Scotland. Compounded by the loss to Russell and Graham. Ref was shite but the Irish didn't need his help, although they got it.

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2025 9:01 am**

Rog has had a deal of success with an enormo-pack who can physically dominate opponents. He’d be no good with Scotland, especially if he doesn’t think too much of the team. I’m not sure anyone with a Munster link would be any use, tbh, too much bad blood with Glasgow.

I was arguing elsewhere that it was Irish dominance rather than the ref but there was one that had me raging, a big hint at the scrum referees are supposed to look for is the loosehead’s elbow pointing towards the floor. Also they are supposed to look at who moves downwards first and at the angles of the props’ body/legs. It sounds like a lot of information at one time but it’s not if you know what you are looking at.
First scrum with Hurd, Porter hinges with his elbow pointing straight at the ground - penalty Ireland.

The referee was on that side of the scrum looking right at it.

It’s not a difficult thing to see, it’s not, “oh I’ve seen that given the other way”, it was wrong by every indicator, so what the fuck is the guy doing?

Posted: **Mon Feb 10, 2025 9:09 am**

I'd take Williams back before offering ROG the job.

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