NPR

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:04 pm I'd assume that Turner is first-choice 2, with the others vying for the 16 jersey (Cherry front-runner for now?)

Some suggestions that some of the higher-profile omissions are exiles who would not be guaranteed to be in the 23, would be required to be released, and would therefore be impossible to maintain in a covid-secure bubble - e.g. Hutchinson, Skinner, Hidalgo-Clyne. Interesting considerations if true.

Ah, now it all makes sense. Shame for them, but I guess none of them were likely to start, and that’s probably the reason they’re left out. Interesting if it is true though, as that basically guarantees we’ll be seeing Redpath and Graham in the 23. I reckon Cam starts and Graham benches, though I’d start both of them by preference.

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:13 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:05 pm

westport wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:50 pm No Sam Skinner either

So pleased to see Redpath in - I've banged on about him often enough and I think he has the potential to make a real difference as a creative but all importantly structured 12 next to Russell, especially while Johnson is out of form.

Surprised not to see Skinner too, we don't have many with his bulk. Possibly more surprised not to see Sam H-C though, for me he is a much better player than Steele. I have no idea if he has been playing though, any insight from anyone?

Steele been in good form from what I have seen.

Fair enough - it's excellent to have options.

I know we've said it before on this and the old forum, but it's so great to be discussing who has been left out rather than who we've brought in to make up the numbers. Changed days from even only a few years ago.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:22 pm

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:04 pm I'd assume that Turner is first-choice 2, with the others vying for the 16 jersey (Cherry front-runner for now?)

Some suggestions that some of the higher-profile omissions are exiles who would not be guaranteed to be in the 23, would be required to be released, and would therefore be impossible to maintain in a covid-secure bubble - e.g. Hutchinson, Skinner, Hidalgo-Clyne. Interesting considerations if true.

Ah, now it all makes sense. Shame for them, but I guess none of them were likely to start, and that’s probably the reason they’re left out. Interesting if it is true though, as that basically guarantees we’ll be seeing Redpath and Graham in the 23. I reckon Cam starts and Graham benches, though I’d start both of them by preference.

The Exeter alleged, let's say le se faire approach to COVID regs might also be driving this as if they are expecting players to be released between matches.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:23 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:13 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:05 pm

So pleased to see Redpath in - I've banged on about him often enough and I think he has the potential to make a real difference as a creative but all importantly structured 12 next to Russell, especially while Johnson is out of form.

Surprised not to see Skinner too, we don't have many with his bulk. Possibly more surprised not to see Sam H-C though, for me he is a much better player than Steele. I have no idea if he has been playing though, any insight from anyone?

Steele been in good form from what I have seen.

Fair enough - it's excellent to have options.

I know we've said it before on this and the old forum, but it's so great to be discussing who has been left out rather than who we've brought in to make up the numbers. Changed days from even only a few years ago.

The thistle podcast guys have him as the form 9 atm

I note with the usual roll of my eyes that Redpath is being widely described as an 'ex-England U20' but there is zero mention that he played for Scotland first at U16 and U18 level before they pinched him from us.

I left a comment on the BBC Scotland squad article that simply said "Redpath played Scotland U16 and U18 before switching to England" and it was removed!

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:10 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:01 pm

Jock42 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:43 am So whats changed? As Big D says he was English a week ago? Is he out of contract soon and being offered one up here?

He is under a long term contract at Bath. IIRC they paid a transfer fee.

Maybe he always wanted to play for Scotland and now he has long term financial security at Bath (who did pay a transfer fee) he doesn't worry about EQP points.

Maybe he has a chat with Eddie who said Ollie Lawrence is our 12 for the next decade.

Maybe he realised he's guaranteed a lot more Scotland than England caps.

Maybe Townsend is an amazing salesman.

Maybe lockdown made him realise how much family comes first and he can't not join his dad in playing for Scotland.

We'll definitely never know.

I also had a zoom call with his dad a few weeks ago (business) and asked him what the hell was going on. Maybe that tipped it?

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:00 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:10 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 12:01 pm

He is under a long term contract at Bath. IIRC they paid a transfer fee.

Maybe he always wanted to play for Scotland and now he has long term financial security at Bath (who did pay a transfer fee) he doesn't worry about EQP points.

Maybe he has a chat with Eddie who said Ollie Lawrence is our 12 for the next decade.

Maybe he realised he's guaranteed a lot more Scotland than England caps.

Maybe Townsend is an amazing salesman.

Maybe lockdown made him realise how much family comes first and he can't not join his dad in playing for Scotland.

We'll definitely never know.

I also had a zoom call with his dad a few weeks ago (business) and asked him what the hell was going on. Maybe that tipped it?

There's always a straw that breaks the camel's back.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:50 pm I note with the usual roll of my eyes that Redpath is being widely described as an 'ex-England U20' but there is zero mention that he played for Scotland first at U16 and U18 level before they pinched him from us.

I left a comment on the BBC Scotland squad article that simply said "Redpath played Scotland U16 and U18 before switching to England" and it was removed!

You could now quite fairly describe him as ‘the French-born son of a former Scotland captain, who played for Scotland up to U18 level, then briefly switched allegiance to England before declaring for Scotland aged 21.’

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:16 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:50 pm I note with the usual roll of my eyes that Redpath is being widely described as an 'ex-England U20' but there is zero mention that he played for Scotland first at U16 and U18 level before they pinched him from us.

I left a comment on the BBC Scotland squad article that simply said "Redpath played Scotland U16 and U18 before switching to England" and it was removed!

You could now quite fairly describe him as ‘the French-born son of a former Scotland captain, who played for Scotland up to U18 level, then briefly switched allegiance to England before declaring for Scotland aged 21.’

He was picked in a senior mens England squad. I think it's fair to describe this one as changing allegiances. May have been capped by England years ago if not for injury!

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:34 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:16 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:50 pm I note with the usual roll of my eyes that Redpath is being widely described as an 'ex-England U20' but there is zero mention that he played for Scotland first at U16 and U18 level before they pinched him from us.

I left a comment on the BBC Scotland squad article that simply said "Redpath played Scotland U16 and U18 before switching to England" and it was removed!

You could now quite fairly describe him as ‘the French-born son of a former Scotland captain, who played for Scotland up to U18 level, then briefly switched allegiance to England before declaring for Scotland aged 21.’

He was picked in a senior mens England squad. I think it's fair to describe this one as changing allegiances. May have been capped by England years ago if not for injury!

I think my point is that both are changing allegiances but only one way is ever commented on. It's a pointless thing to be bothered by, but it seems to get me every time!

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:24 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:22 pm

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:04 pm I'd assume that Turner is first-choice 2, with the others vying for the 16 jersey (Cherry front-runner for now?)

Some suggestions that some of the higher-profile omissions are exiles who would not be guaranteed to be in the 23, would be required to be released, and would therefore be impossible to maintain in a covid-secure bubble - e.g. Hutchinson, Skinner, Hidalgo-Clyne. Interesting considerations if true.

Ah, now it all makes sense. Shame for them, but I guess none of them were likely to start, and that’s probably the reason they’re left out. Interesting if it is true though, as that basically guarantees we’ll be seeing Redpath and Graham in the 23. I reckon Cam starts and Graham benches, though I’d start both of them by preference.

The Exeter alleged, let's say le se faire approach to COVID regs might also be driving this as if they are expecting players to be released between matches.

Hold up. Are we saying that some of our players haven't been selected because they play in England (due to COVID of course)? Makes a bit of mockery of the tournament doesn't it?

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:52 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:24 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:22 pm

Ah, now it all makes sense. Shame for them, but I guess none of them were likely to start, and that’s probably the reason they’re left out. Interesting if it is true though, as that basically guarantees we’ll be seeing Redpath and Graham in the 23. I reckon Cam starts and Graham benches, though I’d start both of them by preference.

The Exeter alleged, let's say le se faire approach to COVID regs might also be driving this as if they are expecting players to be released between matches.

Hold up. Are we saying that some of our players haven't been selected because they play in England (due to COVID of course)? Makes a bit of mockery of the tournament doesn't it?

For me, COVID won't be the issue, it's just that GT isn't a very good selector.

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:52 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:24 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:22 pm

Ah, now it all makes sense. Shame for them, but I guess none of them were likely to start, and that’s probably the reason they’re left out. Interesting if it is true though, as that basically guarantees we’ll be seeing Redpath and Graham in the 23. I reckon Cam starts and Graham benches, though I’d start both of them by preference.

The Exeter alleged, let's say le se faire approach to COVID regs might also be driving this as if they are expecting players to be released between matches.

Hold up. Are we saying that some of our players haven't been selected because they play in England (due to COVID of course)? Makes a bit of mockery of the tournament doesn't it?

Basically if an English team insists on release then they endanger the bubble for the whole squad. Not sure if it's accurate, just speculation.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:04 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:52 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:24 pm

The Exeter alleged, let's say le se faire approach to COVID regs might also be driving this as if they are expecting players to be released between matches.

Hold up. Are we saying that some of our players haven't been selected because they play in England (due to COVID of course)? Makes a bit of mockery of the tournament doesn't it?

Basically if an English team insists on release then they endanger the bubble for the whole squad. Not sure if it's accurate, just speculation.

It makes sense when you look at the English players: Maitland, Taylor won't be recalled as they don't have games. Ashman and McGuigan don't play for Sale anyway. Not sure about Dell.

But essentially that leaves J Gray, Gary Graham, Steele 21 Lang (22 covers 10), Redpath 12 Harris 13, Hogg 15 as matchday squad

Ritchie, Watson and Graham could be an interesting back row

westport wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:12 pm Ritchie, Watson and Graham could be an interesting back row

It'd get under the oppositions skin for certain.

Is it worth highlighting that most of the Sarries players in the England squad haven't played a game of rugby since November?

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:34 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:16 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:50 pm I note with the usual roll of my eyes that Redpath is being widely described as an 'ex-England U20' but there is zero mention that he played for Scotland first at U16 and U18 level before they pinched him from us.

I left a comment on the BBC Scotland squad article that simply said "Redpath played Scotland U16 and U18 before switching to England" and it was removed!

You could now quite fairly describe him as ‘the French-born son of a former Scotland captain, who played for Scotland up to U18 level, then briefly switched allegiance to England before declaring for Scotland aged 21.’

He was picked in a senior mens England squad. I think it's fair to describe this one as changing allegiances. May have been capped by England years ago if not for injury!

I know, but what I’ve said is true too! It’s all in how you choose to phrase it. As KB says, the slant is generally only one way. Redpath was born in France to Scottish parents and brought up in England. He could quite legitimately choose to represent any of the three without any accusations of poaching, and given that he started in the Scottish setup, we’d be poaching him back anyway.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55724614

Interesting point in the second half of this: the England squad, at least, will be in an 8-week isolation bubble for the entire 6N. I’m increasingly convinced that the English-based fringe players have been left out of our squad because their clubs could and would demand their release if they weren’t in the 23, and that would cause major issues. The SRU don’t have to release centrally contracted players, though I’m not sure who is going to play hooker for either Edinburgh or Glasgow.

westport wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:12 pm Ritchie, Watson and Graham could be an interesting back row

Graham has been excellent for Falcons since the start of the season.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:30 pm https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55724614

Interesting point in the second half of this: the England squad, at least, will be in an 8-week isolation bubble for the entire 6N. I’m increasingly convinced that the English-based fringe players have been left out of our squad because their clubs could and would demand their release if they weren’t in the 23, and that would cause major issues. The SRU don’t have to release centrally contracted players, though I’m not sure who is going to play hooker for either Edinburgh or Glasgow.

Willemse will play for Edinburgh, Sam Kitchen on the bench.

Biffer wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:51 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:30 pm https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/55724614

Interesting point in the second half of this: the England squad, at least, will be in an 8-week isolation bubble for the entire 6N. I’m increasingly convinced that the English-based fringe players have been left out of our squad because their clubs could and would demand their release if they weren’t in the 23, and that would cause major issues. The SRU don’t have to release centrally contracted players, though I’m not sure who is going to play hooker for either Edinburgh or Glasgow.

Willemse will play for Edinburgh, Sam Kitchen on the bench.

Dolokoto and Matthews for Glasgow you would think. Injuries to any of those four and we're into emergency loan / stage1&2 academy players

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:44 pm

westport wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:12 pm Ritchie, Watson and Graham could be an interesting back row

Graham has been excellent for Falcons since the start of the season.

Our biggest problem positions over the last year have been 8 and 12. In Graham and Redpath, it’s actually possible we might have solutions for both.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:39 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:44 pm

westport wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:12 pm Ritchie, Watson and Graham could be an interesting back row

Graham has been excellent for Falcons since the start of the season.

Our biggest problem positions over the last year have been 8 and 12. In Graham and Redpath, it’s actually possible we might have solutions for both.

Graham needs to be a whole lot better than during his first few caps though. And it would be a bonus if Redpath did a Ross Thompson and played a blinder on debut; you can't expect him to solve the 12 conundrum straightaway.

Although I don't agree 12 has been a massive issue - Johnson was very good for a while, Taylor is very good when he's fit. There's no consistency there, but we rarely have to field a sub-par player in that position.

Just discovered (via the BBC site) that Sale have a pair of England U20 players authentically born in Scotland - Tom Roebuck (Inverness) and Bevan Rodd (Dunoon). Funny how we always get criticised for picking players born in England. If you point this out, of course, you get told ‘but they learned their rugby in England’. You can’t win.

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:02 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:39 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:44 pm
Graham has been excellent for Falcons since the start of the season.

Our biggest problem positions over the last year have been 8 and 12. In Graham and Redpath, it’s actually possible we might have solutions for both.

Graham needs to be a whole lot better than during his first few caps though. And it would be a bonus if Redpath did a Ross Thompson and played a blinder on debut; you can't expect him to solve the 12 conundrum straightaway.

Although I don't agree 12 has been a massive issue - Johnson was very good for a while, Taylor is very good when he's fit. There's no consistency there, but we rarely have to field a sub-par player in that position.

Someone’s a ray of sunshine today!

Did Graham ever get a start for Scotland? I can’t recall one, though that might be my memory. I think he was mainly playing 6 at the time? He has reportedly been tearing it up at 8 for Newcastle though, and our problem there dates back years.

I disagree that 12 hasn’t been a problem. It was Scotland’s bogey position for decades - I remember discussing it on the bored a few years back (before Scott and Dunbar came on the Scene) and nobody could think of a really good one we’d had since Jim Renwick. In the last few years we’ve had better luck, but nobody has really made the position their own - Dunbar came closest, but he was decent rather than great. I know it’s heresy to say it, but although Duncan Taylor is a great player, he has never really hit the heights in a Scotland shirt. The first half of his career was blighted by the dross playing around him, and the second half by recurrent injuries. He’s one of those guys who gets better the more he doesn’t play.

EDIT: Having said all that, let’s give thanks that never again will we ever have to watch Morrison playing outside Parks.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:24 pm

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:02 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:39 pm

Our biggest problem positions over the last year have been 8 and 12. In Graham and Redpath, it’s actually possible we might have solutions for both.

Graham needs to be a whole lot better than during his first few caps though. And it would be a bonus if Redpath did a Ross Thompson and played a blinder on debut; you can't expect him to solve the 12 conundrum straightaway.

Although I don't agree 12 has been a massive issue - Johnson was very good for a while, Taylor is very good when he's fit. There's no consistency there, but we rarely have to field a sub-par player in that position.

Someone’s a ray of sunshine today!

Did Graham ever get a start for Scotland? I can’t recall one, though that might be my memory. I think he was mainly playing 6 at the time? He has reportedly been tearing it up at 8 for Newcastle though, and our problem there dates back years.

I disagree that 12 hasn’t been a problem. It was Scotland’s bogey position for decades - I remember discussing it on the bored a few years back (before Scott and Dunbar came on the Scene) and nobody could think of a really good one we’d had since Jim Renwick. In the last few years we’ve had better luck, but nobody has really made the position their own - Dunbar came closest, but he was decent rather than great. I know it’s heresy to say it, but although Duncan Taylor is a great player, he has never really hit the heights in a Scotland shirt. The first half of his career was blighted by the dross playing around him, and the second half by recurrent injuries. He’s one of those guys who gets better the more he doesn’t play.

Sunshine? Fuck that.

Taylor was very good in that half hour against Ireland before he got the incredibly harsh yellow.

Don't think Graham ever started? But he was pretty anonymous when he made it onto the pitch. RWC2019 warmups his last cap?

Graham has two caps off the bench in the 2019 Six Nations. Played well Vs France I remember.

I'd rather Gary Graham than Blade Thomson who makes me root against Scotland.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:24 pm

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:02 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:39 pm

Our biggest problem positions over the last year have been 8 and 12. In Graham and Redpath, it’s actually possible we might have solutions for both.

Graham needs to be a whole lot better than during his first few caps though. And it would be a bonus if Redpath did a Ross Thompson and played a blinder on debut; you can't expect him to solve the 12 conundrum straightaway.

Although I don't agree 12 has been a massive issue - Johnson was very good for a while, Taylor is very good when he's fit. There's no consistency there, but we rarely have to field a sub-par player in that position.

Someone’s a ray of sunshine today!

Did Graham ever get a start for Scotland? I can’t recall one, though that might be my memory. I think he was mainly playing 6 at the time? He has reportedly been tearing it up at 8 for Newcastle though, and our problem there dates back years.

I disagree that 12 hasn’t been a problem. It was Scotland’s bogey position for decades - I remember discussing it on the bored a few years back (before Scott and Dunbar came on the Scene) and nobody could think of a really good one we’d had since Jim Renwick. In the last few years we’ve had better luck, but nobody has really made the position their own - Dunbar came closest, but he was decent rather than great. I know it’s heresy to say it, but although Duncan Taylor is a great player, he has never really hit the heights in a Scotland shirt. The first half of his career was blighted by the dross playing around him, and the second half by recurrent injuries. He’s one of those guys who gets better the more he doesn’t play.

EDIT: Having said all that, let’s give thanks that never again will we ever have to watch Morrison playing outside Parks.

Parks - Morrison - De Luca - Danielli - a back line to strike fear ( in any Scottish Supporter )

6Ns is going to be a bit of a lottery like the AIs and I suspect there are some deals that have been done to spread selections across English teams for those players who might not be guaranteed a game plus Toonie's desire to try a few new options out. I presume that covid19 means the guys selected for the squad will have to remain in the bubble for most of the 6Ns and wont be released back to clubs if not playing? So if he wants to try out Steele then why bring in SHC as Price will be first choice. Means these guys can keep playing for clubs and if required can join squad later. Keeps clubs happy, particularly Exeter who will need the likes of Skinner and SHC. Not expecting much from the 6Ns, lots of players have never got up to match fitness and sharpness. They are more an opportunity for trying some new players and combinations out.

dpedin wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:33 pm 6Ns is going to be a bit of a lottery like the AIs and I suspect there are some deals that have been done to spread selections across English teams for those players who might not be guaranteed a game plus Toonie's desire to try a few new options out. I presume that covid19 means the guys selected for the squad will have to remain in the bubble for most of the 6Ns and wont be released back to clubs if not playing? So if he wants to try out Steele then why bring in SHC as Price will be first choice. Means these guys can keep playing for clubs and if required can join squad later. Keeps clubs happy, particularly Exeter who will need the likes of Skinner and SHC. Not expecting much from the 6Ns, lots of players have never got up to match fitness and sharpness. They are more an opportunity for trying some new players and combinations out.

That’s how I’m seeing it too. The fact that there are four ‘surprise’ omissions, they all play in England, and they’re all players who might not make the match day squad, suggests there’s more to this than Toony tombola.

The selection that doesn’t fit this theory, though, is McGuigan. He plays in England, and unless someone gets injured he won’t make the 23. Is he getting a game at Sale? Are they just not that bothered about losing the services of him and Ashman?

dpedin wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:33 pm 6Ns is going to be a bit of a lottery like the AIs and I suspect there are some deals that have been done to spread selections across English teams for those players who might not be guaranteed a game plus Toonie's desire to try a few new options out. I presume that covid19 means the guys selected for the squad will have to remain in the bubble for most of the 6Ns and wont be released back to clubs if not playing? So if he wants to try out Steele then why bring in SHC as Price will be first choice. Means these guys can keep playing for clubs and if required can join squad later. Keeps clubs happy, particularly Exeter who will need the likes of Skinner and SHC. Not expecting much from the 6Ns, lots of players have never got up to match fitness and sharpness. They are more an opportunity for trying some new players and combinations out.

I'm also pessimistic- wins vs Wales and Italy, nothing more.

Is there any result beyond losing to Italy that would be unacceptable to anyone?

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:44 am

dpedin wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:33 pm 6Ns is going to be a bit of a lottery like the AIs and I suspect there are some deals that have been done to spread selections across English teams for those players who might not be guaranteed a game plus Toonie's desire to try a few new options out. I presume that covid19 means the guys selected for the squad will have to remain in the bubble for most of the 6Ns and wont be released back to clubs if not playing? So if he wants to try out Steele then why bring in SHC as Price will be first choice. Means these guys can keep playing for clubs and if required can join squad later. Keeps clubs happy, particularly Exeter who will need the likes of Skinner and SHC. Not expecting much from the 6Ns, lots of players have never got up to match fitness and sharpness. They are more an opportunity for trying some new players and combinations out.

I'm also pessimistic- wins vs Wales and Italy, nothing more.

Is there any result beyond losing to Italy that would be unacceptable to anyone?

Not really. It’s going to be a bit of a sham 6N (though if we win it, I’m 100% taking it).

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:44 am

dpedin wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:33 pm 6Ns is going to be a bit of a lottery like the AIs and I suspect there are some deals that have been done to spread selections across English teams for those players who might not be guaranteed a game plus Toonie's desire to try a few new options out. I presume that covid19 means the guys selected for the squad will have to remain in the bubble for most of the 6Ns and wont be released back to clubs if not playing? So if he wants to try out Steele then why bring in SHC as Price will be first choice. Means these guys can keep playing for clubs and if required can join squad later. Keeps clubs happy, particularly Exeter who will need the likes of Skinner and SHC. Not expecting much from the 6Ns, lots of players have never got up to match fitness and sharpness. They are more an opportunity for trying some new players and combinations out.

I'm also pessimistic- wins vs Wales and Italy, nothing more.

Is there any result beyond losing to Italy that would be unacceptable to anyone?

Unacceptable is a big word, especially in the context of Scotland rugby results - but I'd be deeply disappointed if we didn't beat Wales.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:22 pm

dpedin wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:33 pm 6Ns is going to be a bit of a lottery like the AIs and I suspect there are some deals that have been done to spread selections across English teams for those players who might not be guaranteed a game plus Toonie's desire to try a few new options out. I presume that covid19 means the guys selected for the squad will have to remain in the bubble for most of the 6Ns and wont be released back to clubs if not playing? So if he wants to try out Steele then why bring in SHC as Price will be first choice. Means these guys can keep playing for clubs and if required can join squad later. Keeps clubs happy, particularly Exeter who will need the likes of Skinner and SHC. Not expecting much from the 6Ns, lots of players have never got up to match fitness and sharpness. They are more an opportunity for trying some new players and combinations out.

That’s how I’m seeing it too. The fact that there are four ‘surprise’ omissions, they all play in England, and they’re all players who might not make the match day squad, suggests there’s more to this than Toony tombola.

The selection that doesn’t fit this theory, though, is McGuigan. He plays in England, and unless someone gets injured he won’t make the 23. Is he getting a game at Sale? Are they just not that bothered about losing the services of him and Ashman?

Not sure about McGuigan but Ashman has only made one appearance this year I think. They aren't losing even a squad player; Ashman is still in the academy and he is getting nowhere near the starting position with Duhan's brother obviously not a 6 nations player, and they have two other senior players who are not internationals too.

It's another one of those competitions where I shrug my shoulders at this point. I could see us beating everyone except France and can also see us losing the lot.

I guess minimum should be Italy and Wales but we really should be beating Ireland at home now, albeit no crowd equalises things a bit.

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:44 am

dpedin wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:33 pm 6Ns is going to be a bit of a lottery like the AIs and I suspect there are some deals that have been done to spread selections across English teams for those players who might not be guaranteed a game plus Toonie's desire to try a few new options out. I presume that covid19 means the guys selected for the squad will have to remain in the bubble for most of the 6Ns and wont be released back to clubs if not playing? So if he wants to try out Steele then why bring in SHC as Price will be first choice. Means these guys can keep playing for clubs and if required can join squad later. Keeps clubs happy, particularly Exeter who will need the likes of Skinner and SHC. Not expecting much from the 6Ns, lots of players have never got up to match fitness and sharpness. They are more an opportunity for trying some new players and combinations out.

I'm also pessimistic- wins vs Wales and Italy, nothing more.

Is there any result beyond losing to Italy that would be unacceptable to anyone?

Results? I guess not although losing to Wales by more than a LBP might be.

Not being competitive during the games would be unacceptable though. Every team has been through the same shit with covid so it isn't an excuse.

Slick wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:06 am It's another one of those competitions where I shrug my shoulders at this point. I could see us beating everyone except France and can also see us losing the lot.

I guess minimum should be Italy and Wales but we really should be beating Ireland at home now, albeit no crowd equalises things a bit.

I always hold out hope of beating the French. Regardless of how good they are they're still French, so there could be a horrible implosion of attitudes, rivalries or bad luck during the tournament, the few days before the game or on the day.

VDW re-signs. "Meh"

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:05 am VDW re-signs. "Meh"

Realistically not many sides would be after him. Hodge really needs to develop Chamberlain because on the face of it he is being mismanaged.

Big D wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:14 am

Jock42 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:05 am VDW re-signs. "Meh"

Realistically not many sides would be after him. Hodge really needs to develop Chamberlain because on the face of it he is being mismanaged.

That's something of a ridiculous statement (that he's being mismanaged).Chamberlain has only been there for 6 months in the middle of a pandemic.