You’d need to change a lot about how we play to accommodate Hutchison. You don’t to slot Jordan in.
Interesting comment.
I see Jordan as a physical player who can cary into traffic, be strong defensively and act as first receiver, ie much like Sione, if not quite at the same level in terms of the physicality.
Is this what you mean regarding Hutch not being that physical type of player?
Yep. For me, it’s effectively a straight swap to bring in Jordan at 12. Similarly strong defensively, similar distribution, both able to bang it up. (Not saying he does all these things as well as ST, but similar type of strengths) I guess Jordan doesn’t seem to have as strong a short kicking game as Sione does, but we’ve not looked to use that much as weapon recently anyway. Great player tho Hutchison is, we’d really miss a twelve who can truck it up and retain the ball if we started him, especially if Fagerson is benched. And as someone else said earlier on the thread, the likes of Lawrence running at him is a bit scary. So you’d be looking at changing how we defend, when we’ve a system that works and works well, which isn’t a worry with Jordan.
It’s a shame Hutchison can’t get a look in in a spot where we’ve often really struggled for quality over the years, but them’s the breaks I guess.
My tuppenceworh anyhoo.
I wouldn’t have listed trucking the ball up as one of Jordan’s strengths to be honest. He’s a hard tackler and decent distributor but I have to say that I think Hutchison has the class to slot in there if given a chance
I see Jordan as a physical player who can cary into traffic, be strong defensively and act as first receiver, ie much like Sione, if not quite at the same level in terms of the physicality.
Is this what you mean regarding Hutch not being that physical type of player?
Yep. For me, it’s effectively a straight swap to bring in Jordan at 12. Similarly strong defensively, similar distribution, both able to bang it up. (Not saying he does all these things as well as ST, but similar type of strengths) I guess Jordan doesn’t seem to have as strong a short kicking game as Sione does, but we’ve not looked to use that much as weapon recently anyway. Great player tho Hutchison is, we’d really miss a twelve who can truck it up and retain the ball if we started him, especially if Fagerson is benched. And as someone else said earlier on the thread, the likes of Lawrence running at him is a bit scary. So you’d be looking at changing how we defend, when we’ve a system that works and works well, which isn’t a worry with Jordan.
It’s a shame Hutchison can’t get a look in in a spot where we’ve often really struggled for quality over the years, but them’s the breaks I guess.
My tuppenceworh anyhoo.
I wouldn’t have listed trucking the ball up as one of Jordan’s strengths to be honest. He’s a hard tackler and decent distributor but I have to say that I think Hutchison has the class to slot in there if given a chance
Really? I’d say Jordan’s ability to retain the ball or offload when running hard and straight ‘in traffic’ is one of his biggest assets. And he can break tackles when doing it too. (Some examples here
Like I said, I rate Hutchison. But he doesn’t have that ability and it’s pretty central to how we play atm.
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2025 5:50 pm
by Biffer
C T wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2025 3:40 pm
I'm nervous about this weekend, but this should be a very close and very compelling match.
Thinking about Scotland against Italy. I really think Italy are a much better team and I'll be surprise if they don't take a scalp this tournament. On the whole it's unrealistic to expect us to just dominate them and win at a canter. Ultimately I'm happy with that one, trying to be realistic about the best that could have happened.
Ireland done what they always do, we done what we always do and came up massively short. Very disappointing. At least last year vs Ireland and SA we showed some form of progress but still lost. Felt like a step back this year.
I'm not yet convinced that England have taken a step forward. Harsh, but even their win vs France needed the worst France performance I've seen for a long time. Some of that has to be attributed to England though.
I think Scotland were a better team that England, but I'm worried we've stepped back to meet them rather that they've stepped forward to meet us.
England have the players to do what Ireland & SA do to us, but it just hasn't quite been the case the past few years.
Tough one to call.
I'm very much enjoying your subtle implication that Wales are no longer seen as a scalp for Italy.
Yep. For me, it’s effectively a straight swap to bring in Jordan at 12. Similarly strong defensively, similar distribution, both able to bang it up. (Not saying he does all these things as well as ST, but similar type of strengths) I guess Jordan doesn’t seem to have as strong a short kicking game as Sione does, but we’ve not looked to use that much as weapon recently anyway. Great player tho Hutchison is, we’d really miss a twelve who can truck it up and retain the ball if we started him, especially if Fagerson is benched. And as someone else said earlier on the thread, the likes of Lawrence running at him is a bit scary. So you’d be looking at changing how we defend, when we’ve a system that works and works well, which isn’t a worry with Jordan.
It’s a shame Hutchison can’t get a look in in a spot where we’ve often really struggled for quality over the years, but them’s the breaks I guess.
My tuppenceworh anyhoo.
I wouldn’t have listed trucking the ball up as one of Jordan’s strengths to be honest. He’s a hard tackler and decent distributor but I have to say that I think Hutchison has the class to slot in there if given a chance
Really? I’d say Jordan’s ability to retain the ball or offload when running hard and straight ‘in traffic’ is one of his biggest assets. And he can break tackles when doing it too. (Some examples here
Like I said, I rate Hutchison. But he doesn’t have that ability and it’s pretty central to how we play atm.
I wouldn’t have listed trucking the ball up as one of Jordan’s strengths to be honest. He’s a hard tackler and decent distributor but I have to say that I think Hutchison has the class to slot in there if given a chance
Really? I’d say Jordan’s ability to retain the ball or offload when running hard and straight ‘in traffic’ is one of his biggest assets. And he can break tackles when doing it too. (Some examples here
Like I said, I rate Hutchison. But he doesn’t have that ability and it’s pretty central to how we play atm.
Did you post the wrong video?
Oops. Thought that had the clip of him bouncing the two Italian back rows. But even the short I posted shows how good his fend is and how well he passes out of heavy contact on the gainline. It the latter that is basically why Franco plays him at ten. I guess my point is really that I’m a bit surprised you don’t view running straight and hard as a strength of his game.
Really? I’d say Jordan’s ability to retain the ball or offload when running hard and straight ‘in traffic’ is one of his biggest assets. And he can break tackles when doing it too. (Some examples here
Like I said, I rate Hutchison. But he doesn’t have that ability and it’s pretty central to how we play atm.
Did you post the wrong video?
Oops. Thought that had the clip of him bouncing the two Italian back rows. But even the short I posted shows how good his fend is and how well he passes out of heavy contact on the gainline. It the latter that is basically why Franco plays him at ten. I guess my point is really that I’m a bit surprised you don’t view running straight and hard as a strength of his game.
The reason asked is that none of those clips show him doing that. They show him running hard and offloading in broken play, but that’s not what we are talking about. I just see him as a completely different player from Sione, not just a slightly less good version
1. Jake Shearer – Glasgow Warriors
2. Seb Stephen – Edinburgh Academical FC
3. Ollie Blyth-Lafferty – Edinburgh Rugby
4. Bart Godsell – Loughborough University
5. Dan Halkon – Glasgow Warriors
6. Oliver Duncan – Edinburgh Rugby
7. Freddy Douglas – Edinburgh Rugby
8. Reuben Logan – Northampton Saints
Replacements
16. Joe Roberts – Glasgow Warriors
17. Oliver McKenna – Glasgow Warriors
18. Jamie Stewart – Edinburgh Rugby
19. Charlie Moss – Montpellier
20. Billy Allen – Dungannon RFC
21. Hamish MacArthur – Edinburgh Rugby
22. Campbell Waugh – Glasgow Hawks
23. Ross Wolfenden – Edinburgh Rugby
Quite a few changes in the pack and hopefully a bit more ballast and snarl, but that England pack will be dominant. Unchanged backs, best half back combo just hope Urwin has sorted his place kicking.
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2025 7:37 pm
by Punter15
Much better up front, good control from the base, back three not quick enough.
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2025 8:10 pm
by Punter15
Expect Miller’s usual nonsense changes
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 7:25 am
by dkm57
Thought Scotland generally looked a couple of years younger than the English, Ross Wolfendon looked useful and pretty rapid.
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 8:42 am
by Tichtheid
The England U20s Orc pack probably weighs as much as their senior side and the one crumb of comfort from last night from our point of view is that our muckle great 18 year old tighthead more than stood his ground until the second row subs came on. Our scrum creaked around the 60 minute mark, but watch out for Ollie Blyth-Lafferty, heir apparent to Zander Fagerson.
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 10:00 am
by Punter15
Tichtheid wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 8:42 am
The England U20s Orc pack probably weighs as much as their senior side and the one crumb of comfort from last night from our point of view is that our muckle great 18 year old tighthead more than stood his ground until the second row subs came on. Our scrum creaked around the 60 minute mark, but watch out for Ollie Blyth-Lafferty, heir apparent to Zander Fagerson.
Yep, scoreline is painful but not reflective overall. Pack went well and much better than previous weeks, Cowan very good at 9, but then the problems start - Urwin hasn’t been on it and the centres defence not gelling, and the back three aren’t rapid enough. England kept hitting up through the middle and piling through at pace, 40 odd missed tackles overall is a killer.
Shame, if they had played like that in previous weeks we wouldn’t be winless.
Tichtheid wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 8:42 am
The England U20s Orc pack probably weighs as much as their senior side and the one crumb of comfort from last night from our point of view is that our muckle great 18 year old tighthead more than stood his ground until the second row subs came on. Our scrum creaked around the 60 minute mark, but watch out for Ollie Blyth-Lafferty, heir apparent to Zander Fagerson.
Yep, scoreline is painful but not reflective overall. Pack went well and much better than previous weeks, Cowan very good at 9, but then the problems start - Urwin hasn’t been on it and the centres defence not gelling, and the back three aren’t rapid enough. England kept hitting up through the middle and piling through at pace, 40 odd missed tackles overall is a killer.
Shame, if they had played like that in previous weeks we wouldn’t be winless.
I honestly don’t think pace is the problem in the back three, Brown is quick and the winger whose name escapes me for the moment, the guy who was in the repechage tournament last summer, he is pretty rapid too.
Scotland were badly exposed by the coaching in terms of their positioning in defence- there were huge gaps that no amount of pace would make up for. The guy from Ayr who came on, the red haired guy, he is quick too.
Losing Vintisei from the centre just before kick off didn’t help, but to be honest I’m not sure how much difference he would have made, so bad was the defensive non-structure
The other starters in the front row looked up to scratch, as did our backrow, we all know about Douglas but Logan fought valiantly as did Duncan.
As Disco said elsewhere, for us to be competitive in this fixture everything has to go our way and I have to say, I have no idea what scrum the ref was looking at, because it certainly wasn’t the one I was watching. The ten replays showed the ball grounded for one of England’s tries eventually but there was an earlier one which was definitely short on the replay before the restart and it wasn’t picked up.
Ultimately I hope we get a new coaching team in for the World Championships, the players are a decent young bunch and deserve better.
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 11:36 am
by Yr Alban
Tichtheid wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 8:42 am
The England U20s Orc pack probably weighs as much as their senior side and the one crumb of comfort from last night from our point of view is that our muckle great 18 year old tighthead more than stood his ground until the second row subs came on. Our scrum creaked around the 60 minute mark, but watch out for Ollie Blyth-Lafferty, heir apparent to Zander Fagerson.
Looks like we might have another decade or so of worrying that our one decent THP might get injured. But that’s still miles better than the alternative!
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 11:42 am
by SaintK
dkm57 wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 7:25 am
Thought Scotland generally looked a couple of years younger than the English, Ross Wolfendon looked useful and pretty rapid.
50% of the England squad had 2 caps or less and roughly the same number were 1st year at U20's
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 11:52 am
by charltom
I don't think he's talking about their actual age/experience; just how they look!
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 12:04 pm
by SaintK
charltom wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 11:52 am
I don't think he's talking about their actual age/experience; just how they look!
aaah yes of course
As Toga said elsewhere if I was told Bracken on the English wing was 15, I'd believe it
charltom wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 11:52 am
I don't think he's talking about their actual age/experience; just how they look!
aaah yes of course
As Toga said elsewhere if I was told Bracken on the English wing was 15, I'd believe it
Given the usual caveats about listed players' weights, I've just done a quick count up and the England starting pack comes in at around 980kg. I remember when Racing came to Glasgow with a one tonne pack that included 150kg of Ben Tameifuna and that was considered monstrous.
Incidentally, the English front row is all listed around the same, but no way Tuipulotu the same weight as the others.
This is the first time that I've seen this fixture where Scotland didn't look tiny in comparison, much of that was down to 18 year old Ollie Blyth Laftery who is around the 130kg mark, but our locks looked underpowered in comparison, one of them is just 18 so he will catch up, hopefully.
charltom wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 11:52 am
I don't think he's talking about their actual age/experience; just how they look!
aaah yes of course
As Toga said elsewhere if I was told Bracken on the English wing was 15, I'd believe it
Given the usual caveats about listed players' weights, I've just done a quick count up and the England starting pack comes in at around 980kg. I remember when Racing came to Glasgow with a one tonne pack that included 150kg of Ben Tameifuna and that was considered monstrous.
Incidentally, the English front row is all listed around the same, but no way Tuipulotu the same weight as the others.
This is the first time that I've seen this fixture where Scotland didn't look tiny in comparison, much of that was down to 18 year old Ollie Blyth Laftery who is around the 130kg mark, but our locks looked underpowered in comparison, one of them is just 18 so he will catch up, hopefully.
Is OBL really 130kg? That’s more than zander is now. Wow, we don’t usually make them like that.
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 3:03 pm
by Biffer
Wales showing Ireland are there to be taken this year, we just shat the bed a fortnight ago.
SaintK wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 12:04 pm
aaah yes of course
As Toga said elsewhere if I was told Bracken on the English wing was 15, I'd believe it
Given the usual caveats about listed players' weights, I've just done a quick count up and the England starting pack comes in at around 980kg. I remember when Racing came to Glasgow with a one tonne pack that included 150kg of Ben Tameifuna and that was considered monstrous.
Incidentally, the English front row is all listed around the same, but no way Tuipulotu the same weight as the others.
This is the first time that I've seen this fixture where Scotland didn't look tiny in comparison, much of that was down to 18 year old Ollie Blyth Laftery who is around the 130kg mark, but our locks looked underpowered in comparison, one of them is just 18 so he will catch up, hopefully.
Is OBL really 130kg? That’s more than zander is now. Wow, we don’t usually make them like that.
The SRU have him listed at 136kg and 1.92m
'kin huge
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 3:29 pm
by KingBlairhorn
Biffer wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 3:03 pm
Wales showing Ireland are there to be taken this year, we just shat the bed a fortnight ago.
Yup.
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 3:31 pm
by Yr Alban
Biffer wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 3:03 pm
Wales showing Ireland are there to be taken this year, we just shat the bed a fortnight ago.
Yes. Multiple thoughts around this right now.
1. How come Wales can compete with Ireland when we failed so utterly to do so?
2. Why do Ireland never make mistakes like Ringrose’s against us?
3. We’re going to be hit full-force with a suddenly resurgent Wales, aren’t we? No matter what today’s result.
4. A Wales win would blow everything wide open and could potentially open our way to have a shot at the title. Unfortunately it is a whole lot more likely to open the way to our finishing last.
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 3:33 pm
by Tichtheid
No way was that legal at the lineout
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 3:34 pm
by Tichtheid
ah, he saw it after all
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 3:39 pm
by Biffer
Tichtheid wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 3:33 pm
No way was that legal at the lineout
Not sure the TMO protocol allows that.
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 3:41 pm
by KingBlairhorn
Looking on the bright side, Wales playing well might lead to Sherratt getting the gig full time and Franco staying in Scotland.
Biffer wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 3:03 pm
Wales showing Ireland are there to be taken this year, we just shat the bed a fortnight ago.
Yes. Multiple thoughts around this right now.
1. How come Wales can compete with Ireland when we failed so utterly to do so?
2. Why do Ireland never make mistakes like Ringrose’s against us?
3. We’re going to be hit full-force with a suddenly resurgent Wales, aren’t we? No matter what today’s result.
4. A Wales win would blow everything wide open and could potentially open our way to have a shot at the title. Unfortunately it is a whole lot more likely to open the way to our finishing last.
Answer to 1 has a lot to do with Townsends tactics. We kick the ball back to them without making them work. Every time in our own half it's one phase and then box.
Biffer wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 3:03 pm
Wales showing Ireland are there to be taken this year, we just shat the bed a fortnight ago.
Yes. Multiple thoughts around this right now.
1. How come Wales can compete with Ireland when we failed so utterly to do so?
2. Why do Ireland never make mistakes like Ringrose’s against us?
3. We’re going to be hit full-force with a suddenly resurgent Wales, aren’t we? No matter what today’s result.
4. A Wales win would blow everything wide open and could potentially open our way to have a shot at the title. Unfortunately it is a whole lot more likely to open the way to our finishing last.
Answer to 1 has a lot to do with Townsends tactics. We kick the ball back to them without making them work. Every time in our own half it's one phase and then box.
Yep, plus Toonie’s harem scarem tactics don’t work against well drilled, composed teams. That’s fine if you have a plan b, but we don’t.
Toonie oot.
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 4:55 pm
by KingBlairhorn
Are we more consistently offside on the try line than any other team? It’s so frustrating, there is literally a line painted on the grass.
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 5:07 pm
by KingBlairhorn
Whoever managed to teach VDM to pass deserves the freedom of Scotland.
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 5:18 pm
by KingBlairhorn
We’ve been wasteful so far.
Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2025 5:28 pm
by Blackmac
KingBlairhorn wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2025 5:18 pm
We’ve been wasteful so far.
