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Agreed. It was given. Move on.SaintK wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2025 12:24 pmOh dear!!! Please don't let the Scots go full SafferI like neeps wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2025 12:05 pm Townsend needs to release a Rassie style refereeing analysis.
The obvious non try and Itoje handstand turnover in his 22 I mean what are we even doing.
Ian Tempest says you and Townsend are wrong about the try!
According to the Guardian, Slade was the best performing back on the field and deserved a rating of 8/10 for, and I quote: "Some excellent covering tackles and as leader of the defence he has to take credit with the way England hung in there in the first half"SaintK wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2025 11:27 amYou are confusing him with Slade who missed 5 from 12 attemptsSlick wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2025 10:21 amI like Lawrence as well but, and I could be completely wrong, but it felt like he fell off a lot of tackles yesterdaydpedin wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2025 9:50 am Frustrating game - Scotland superior in most aspects of the game and should have scored more tries/points, particularly in the first half. Attack with the ball was excellent but English scramble defence held firm. Agree we lack a little bit of bite in 2nd row particularly as we went with a lightweight and mobile back row. Apart from the scrum we looked fairly comfortable throughout. In all honesty I cant think of an English back I would choose ahead of one of our Scots - apart from Finn Smith's left boot?
England looked pretty uncomfortable and played an ultra conservative game which was good for us given our backs looked good below high balls and threatened on transitions a number of times. Mitchell's kicking was mediocre and Randells was just plain awful when he came on. Finn Smith is a decent 10 and worth persevering with but Marcus Smith is never a 15. Lawrence is a player I like and he was their most dangerous back, apart from him the rest were pretty mediocre.
Another day and a few tries slightly closer to the posts and we would have strolled that game!
Got to feel for Sleightholme who received precisiely 1 pass before being substituted, having to play to a plan that is completely alien to him compared to how Saints deply him!!!
What were Smiths stats? Think he missed a tackle for all Scotlands triesSaintK wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2025 11:27 amYou are confusing him with Slade who missed 5 from 12 attemptsSlick wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2025 10:21 amI like Lawrence as well but, and I could be completely wrong, but it felt like he fell off a lot of tackles yesterdaydpedin wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2025 9:50 am Frustrating game - Scotland superior in most aspects of the game and should have scored more tries/points, particularly in the first half. Attack with the ball was excellent but English scramble defence held firm. Agree we lack a little bit of bite in 2nd row particularly as we went with a lightweight and mobile back row. Apart from the scrum we looked fairly comfortable throughout. In all honesty I cant think of an English back I would choose ahead of one of our Scots - apart from Finn Smith's left boot?
England looked pretty uncomfortable and played an ultra conservative game which was good for us given our backs looked good below high balls and threatened on transitions a number of times. Mitchell's kicking was mediocre and Randells was just plain awful when he came on. Finn Smith is a decent 10 and worth persevering with but Marcus Smith is never a 15. Lawrence is a player I like and he was their most dangerous back, apart from him the rest were pretty mediocre.
Another day and a few tries slightly closer to the posts and we would have strolled that game!
Got to feel for Sleightholme who received precisiely 1 pass before being substituted, having to play to a plan that is completely alien to him compared to how Saints deply him!!!
Smith M? Not ssure, he certainly missed VdM at least once. Smith F made 16 according to some reportsSlick wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2025 2:40 pmWhat were Smiths stats? Think he missed a tackle for all Scotlands tries
In the Lions' 2nd test against SA in 1997, SA scored 3 tries but failed to convert any of them. The Lions scored no tries, but Neil Jenkins kicked 5 penalties and Jerry Guscott dropped a goal to win the match for the Lions 18 - 15.Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2025 5:59 pm Can anyone recall another Test where one team scored three tries to one and still lost?
I think SA won the try count 2-0 when we last beat them at MF. The first game that sprang to mind was the infamous QF when Australia won the count 5-3, but of course they didn’t lose, thanks to the ref.
SomersetJock wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2025 8:58 amNo, the highlights on the news this morning !inactionman wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2025 8:40 amAre you talking about the 5 min highlights on iplayer? They showed the try.SomersetJock wrote: ↑Sun Feb 23, 2025 8:38 am BBC really are horrendous at rugby highlights, didn’t even show the England try for some reason
Is this some weird whoosh I'm not getting?
He missed one on Van Der Merve for (I think) the first try. Was grasping and a bit of an arms only tackle and didn't get a full wrap.
Pretoria, Bloemfontein, Paarl yes.Punter15 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2025 8:23 pmNah. We don’t have any test level second rows and it cost us. Three tries to one but gave way too many penalties because we lacked grunt. Perfectly fine everywhere else.KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Sat Feb 22, 2025 7:20 pm You know that might be a game that haunts some of our players. In just a few months Farrell will be putting his squad together and he’ll look at a lot of our guys and say, when the chips are down, I don’t think I can count on him. And to be honest, he’s probably right.
Need to get on the phone to Durban and see who’s granny liked big pasty ginger lads.
Mate, if anyone on the pitch thought it was a valid complaint, it would be Finn. He was gobbing off at the ref throughout the match. I thought it was Sexton on the pitch at one point.
It was nothing like Sexton (or Biggar). He was chatting to the ref more than I've heard him in other games but that's probably because Brousset was so far out of his depth and making some absolute howlers of decisions.
Are you S African by any chancetopofthemoon wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2025 12:42 pmIt was nothing like Sexton (or Biggar). He was chatting to the ref more than I've heard him in other games but that's probably because Brousset was so far out of his depth and making some absolute howlers of decisions.
Don't be daft. There are three such obvious howlers, each of which ended up gifting the match to the poorer team.SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2025 12:49 pmAre you S African by any chancetopofthemoon wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2025 12:42 pmIt was nothing like Sexton (or Biggar). He was chatting to the ref more than I've heard him in other games but that's probably because Brousset was so far out of his depth and making some absolute howlers of decisions.
Three now!!charltom wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2025 2:11 pmDon't be daft. There are three such obvious howlers, each of which ended up gifting the match to the poorer team.SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2025 12:49 pmAre you S African by any chancetopofthemoon wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2025 12:42 pm
It was nothing like Sexton (or Biggar). He was chatting to the ref more than I've heard him in other games but that's probably because Brousset was so far out of his depth and making some absolute howlers of decisions.
Finn didn't know that would be the case as he kindly helped guide him.
England didn't convert their chances either... Their try scorer said it wasnt a try and every single angle shows it wasn't a try.SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2025 3:19 pmThree now!!
Perhaps if Scotland had converted the number of opportunities they created particularly when they entered England's 22 more than 10 times in the first half and not given away 10 penalties on the trot in the second half and Russell had kicked just one the conversions they would have won by the margin they should have.
As it was the poorer team as you say did and it was the ref's fault
Not going to argue with you on the Scotland thread.I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2025 3:34 pmEngland didn't convert their chances either... Their try scorer said it wasnt a try and every single angle shows it wasn't a try.SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2025 3:19 pmThree now!!
Perhaps if Scotland had converted the number of opportunities they created particularly when they entered England's 22 more than 10 times in the first half and not given away 10 penalties on the trot in the second half and Russell had kicked just one the conversions they would have won by the margin they should have.
As it was the poorer team as you say did and it was the ref's fault
Let's be honest. The referee was a abysmal and without consistently and obviously wrong decisions Scotland win that game.
Okay don't let the referee affect the outcome but test matches are close games. Don't need the referees consistently wrong decisions making them any closer.
Brousset should be stepped down until he can show he is a competent referee. His first six nations game and he showed he's not ready for the big time.
You take that back!SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2025 12:49 pmAre you S African by any chancetopofthemoon wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2025 12:42 pmIt was nothing like Sexton (or Biggar). He was chatting to the ref more than I've heard him in other games but that's probably because Brousset was so far out of his depth and making some absolute howlers of decisions.
Yes, bit harsh calling you a Saffer in hindsight!topofthemoon wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2025 4:32 pmYou take that back!SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2025 12:49 pmAre you S African by any chancetopofthemoon wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2025 12:42 pm
It was nothing like Sexton (or Biggar). He was chatting to the ref more than I've heard him in other games but that's probably because Brousset was so far out of his depth and making some absolute howlers of decisions.
Scotland lost that game in multiple ways. By not taking their try scoring chances; not kicking points available; and poor discipline - particularly between half-time and the 70th minute.
I don't think that should preclude discussing the performance of the ref. In every game I have seen him in there have been points where he has seemed overwhelmed. Unsurprisingly that came much more frequently in a match played at this intensity.
He should not have been put in that position by World Rugby this early in his Test career - and nor should his TMO who was equally poor.
Both should be given opportunities to build themselves up to this level but they shouldn't be getting appointments like this again until they are 100% ready for it.
There is a definite push to bring on a new generation of refs, including sidelining more experienced officials to get the new blood time in the middle. In Scotland's last 11 Tests they have have a ref who is new to them on 9 occasions.SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2025 4:54 pmYes, bit harsh calling you a Saffer in hindsight!topofthemoon wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2025 4:32 pmYou take that back!
Scotland lost that game in multiple ways. By not taking their try scoring chances; not kicking points available; and poor discipline - particularly between half-time and the 70th minute.
I don't think that should preclude discussing the performance of the ref. In every game I have seen him in there have been points where he has seemed overwhelmed. Unsurprisingly that came much more frequently in a match played at this intensity.
He should not have been put in that position by World Rugby this early in his Test career - and nor should his TMO who was equally poor.
Both should be given opportunities to build themselves up to this level but they shouldn't be getting appointments like this again until they are 100% ready for it.
World Rugby obviously think he's ready based on their studying of his matches and feedback from the teams he refs. Scotland and England will obviously be both providing feedback from Saturday.
AS for the TMO. Ian Tempest is a very experienced referee having previously reffed at the highest level in European comps and internationals since 2015. He stood down fromk reffing for a while to become a TMO after receiving some pretty horrible abuse.
Fair calltopofthemoon wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2025 5:27 pmThere is a definite push to bring on a new generation of refs, including sidelining more experienced officials to get the new blood time in the middle. In Scotland's last 11 Tests they have have a ref who is new to them on 9 occasions.SaintK wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2025 4:54 pmYes, bit harsh calling you a Saffer in hindsight!topofthemoon wrote: ↑Mon Feb 24, 2025 4:32 pm
You take that back!
Scotland lost that game in multiple ways. By not taking their try scoring chances; not kicking points available; and poor discipline - particularly between half-time and the 70th minute.
I don't think that should preclude discussing the performance of the ref. In every game I have seen him in there have been points where he has seemed overwhelmed. Unsurprisingly that came much more frequently in a match played at this intensity.
He should not have been put in that position by World Rugby this early in his Test career - and nor should his TMO who was equally poor.
Both should be given opportunities to build themselves up to this level but they shouldn't be getting appointments like this again until they are 100% ready for it.
World Rugby obviously think he's ready based on their studying of his matches and feedback from the teams he refs. Scotland and England will obviously be both providing feedback from Saturday.
AS for the TMO. Ian Tempest is a very experienced referee having previously reffed at the highest level in European comps and internationals since 2015. He stood down fromk reffing for a while to become a TMO after receiving some pretty horrible abuse.
There is particular pressure to find a French official to replace some veterans who have retired in recent years.
I don't think any ref should be getting their first Six Nations outing in a game like that, with only - as far as I can see - either three or four other all Tier 1 Tests behind them.
Tempest I wouldn't have minded, he's very experienced. The TMO on Saturday was Tual Trainini who is nowhere near as experienced and it showed.
Pretty sure this'll be an A team fixture in all but name, but that's a good thing, need playing time for the young lads in particular.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 8:30 am Edinburgh Rugby will face Gallagher Premiership giants Saracens in a mid-season friendly match at Hive Stadium next month (Friday 14 March, 7.35pm).
The match has been scheduled to create more competitive action for the senior side in preparation for the vital end-of-season run-in to the BKT URC and EPCR Challenge Cup – including Edinburgh’s knockout Round of 16 encounter with Emirates Lions in April.
https://edinburghrugby.org/news-and-fea ... -friendly/
I saw their round up of media takes on this and they had Finn as a huge loser in the Lions race with scores of 4/10, 5/10.Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 11:58 am Just seen a PR post on my FB feed (didn’t click on it) where part of the tagline says that ‘Scotland stars loosen their grip on Lions shirts’.
Hold on a sec. So Scotland went to Twickenham looking for a third win there on the trot, and a fifth straight win v England. They were agreed to be the better team, scored three tries to one, and lost by a point because Russell missed all of his conversions (including one the ref insisted he take from the wrong place). But sure, whatever you say.
Slick wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:13 pmI saw their round up of media takes on this and they had Finn as a huge loser in the Lions race with scores of 4/10, 5/10.Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 11:58 am Just seen a PR post on my FB feed (didn’t click on it) where part of the tagline says that ‘Scotland stars loosen their grip on Lions shirts’.
Hold on a sec. So Scotland went to Twickenham looking for a third win there on the trot, and a fifth straight win v England. They were agreed to be the better team, scored three tries to one, and lost by a point because Russell missed all of his conversions (including one the ref insisted he take from the wrong place). But sure, whatever you say.
Finn missed his kicks, but I thought apart from that it was a masterclass from him and certainly made Smith to look like the new boy he is.
Exactly this, I watched him most of the game and they just couldn't handle his range of passing and he was actually much more involved than normal.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:20 pmSlick wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:13 pmI saw their round up of media takes on this and they had Finn as a huge loser in the Lions race with scores of 4/10, 5/10.Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 11:58 am Just seen a PR post on my FB feed (didn’t click on it) where part of the tagline says that ‘Scotland stars loosen their grip on Lions shirts’.
Hold on a sec. So Scotland went to Twickenham looking for a third win there on the trot, and a fifth straight win v England. They were agreed to be the better team, scored three tries to one, and lost by a point because Russell missed all of his conversions (including one the ref insisted he take from the wrong place). But sure, whatever you say.
Finn missed his kicks, but I thought apart from that it was a masterclass from him and certainly made Smith to look like the new boy he is.
Russell's width and pace of passing was why we were able to get around the outside of England so easily.
In the last couple of minutes after IrnDhu's try, Finn was looking so comfortable I thought for sure we were going to get another try and win.Slick wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:22 pmExactly this, I watched him most of the game and they just couldn't handle his range of passing and he was actually much more involved than normal.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:20 pmSlick wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:13 pm
I saw their round up of media takes on this and they had Finn as a huge loser in the Lions race with scores of 4/10, 5/10.
Finn missed his kicks, but I thought apart from that it was a masterclass from him and certainly made Smith to look like the new boy he is.
Russell's width and pace of passing was why we were able to get around the outside of England so easily.
Thankyou Mystic Meg. You got the lottery numbers for next week?C T wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:42 pmIn the last couple of minutes after IrnDhu's try, Finn was looking so comfortable I thought for sure we were going to get another try and win.
We got held up and bundled into touch of course, but there you go.
He was, by far, the better flyhalf on the pitch. Just not off the tee.
Some outlets just have an agenda here. It's between Finn and Prendergast. I can see a case for either.
Farrell has an opportunity to give Prendergast a boost, a player who will be crucial to Ireland for years to come. First test Prendergast to start with Finn on the bench I reckon.
