Re: The Official Scottish Rugby Thread
Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:17 pm
Prendergast's defence is even more comically inept than Sir Charles of Hodgson's
A place where escape goats go to play
https://notplanetrugby.com/
SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:16 pmThankyou Mystic Meg. You got the lottery numbers for next week?C T wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:42 pmIn the last couple of minutes after IrnDhu's try, Finn was looking so comfortable I thought for sure we were going to get another try and win.
We got held up and bundled into touch of course, but there you go.
He was, by far, the better flyhalf on the pitch. Just not off the tee.
Some outlets just have an agenda here. It's between Finn and Prendergast. I can see a case for either.
Farrell has an opportunity to give Prendergast a boost, a player who will be crucial to Ireland for years to come. First test Prendergast to start with Finn on the bench I reckon.
I'll watch live with (hopefully) zero expectations. I'm scunnered that Everitt is still in post after Zebre but don't imagine Nucifora will accept many more failures.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:39 pm Coming back to domestic action this weekend, I've reached the point, as I did last year, where I can't bring myself to watch Edinburgh and only watch a re-run if the score looks enticing. I only have ten fingers and that's not enough to block out the horror that is Edinburgh Rugby at the moment.
Away to Munster has seldom been anything other than a right doing and I can't see that change on Friday. I'm away all day Saturday to support my local club, so I would have preferred the entertainment of watching Glasgow on a Friday night
Certainly 4 or 5 is absurd, but Finn's percentage across the tournament so far is poor - 38%Slick wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:13 pmI saw their round up of media takes on this and they had Finn as a huge loser in the Lions race with scores of 4/10, 5/10.Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 11:58 am Just seen a PR post on my FB feed (didn’t click on it) where part of the tagline says that ‘Scotland stars loosen their grip on Lions shirts’.
Hold on a sec. So Scotland went to Twickenham looking for a third win there on the trot, and a fifth straight win v England. They were agreed to be the better team, scored three tries to one, and lost by a point because Russell missed all of his conversions (including one the ref insisted he take from the wrong place). But sure, whatever you say.
Finn missed his kicks, but I thought apart from that it was a masterclass from him and certainly made Smith to look like the new boy he is.
It's embarrassing that any rugby correspondent can watch that game and think Finn was a 4/5 of of 10.
George Horne for Lions 9 then!sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 2:18 pmCertainly 4 or 5 is absurd, but Finn's percentage across the tournament so far is poor - 38%Slick wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:13 pmI saw their round up of media takes on this and they had Finn as a huge loser in the Lions race with scores of 4/10, 5/10.Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 11:58 am Just seen a PR post on my FB feed (didn’t click on it) where part of the tagline says that ‘Scotland stars loosen their grip on Lions shirts’.
Hold on a sec. So Scotland went to Twickenham looking for a third win there on the trot, and a fifth straight win v England. They were agreed to be the better team, scored three tries to one, and lost by a point because Russell missed all of his conversions (including one the ref insisted he take from the wrong place). But sure, whatever you say.
Finn missed his kicks, but I thought apart from that it was a masterclass from him and certainly made Smith to look like the new boy he is.
It's embarrassing that any rugby correspondent can watch that game and think Finn was a 4/5 of of 10.
He's also only 77% in the Premiership so far this season, obviously much better than he's managed in the 6N so far, but still not what you want from a frontline, elite kicker.
That will definitely hurt his Lions chances, even if he may still be the best option. There aren't many non-flyhalves in the British & Irish teams who do goal kicking, Kinghorn might be the only one and he barely kicks for Toulouse (7/12 so far this season apparently), so that responsibility would fall on whoever's playing 10. It would be a huge call to start Lions tests with a kicker whose boot form is dodgy.
sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 2:18 pmCertainly 4 or 5 is absurd, but Finn's percentage across the tournament so far is poor - 38%Slick wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 12:13 pmI saw their round up of media takes on this and they had Finn as a huge loser in the Lions race with scores of 4/10, 5/10.Yr Alban wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 11:58 am Just seen a PR post on my FB feed (didn’t click on it) where part of the tagline says that ‘Scotland stars loosen their grip on Lions shirts’.
Hold on a sec. So Scotland went to Twickenham looking for a third win there on the trot, and a fifth straight win v England. They were agreed to be the better team, scored three tries to one, and lost by a point because Russell missed all of his conversions (including one the ref insisted he take from the wrong place). But sure, whatever you say.
Finn missed his kicks, but I thought apart from that it was a masterclass from him and certainly made Smith to look like the new boy he is.
It's embarrassing that any rugby correspondent can watch that game and think Finn was a 4/5 of of 10.
He's also only 77% in the Premiership so far this season, obviously much better than he's managed in the 6N so far, but still not what you want from a frontline, elite kicker.
That will definitely hurt his Lions chances, even if he may still be the best option. There aren't many non-flyhalves in the British & Irish teams who do goal kicking, Kinghorn might be the only one and he barely kicks for Toulouse (7/12 so far this season apparently), so that responsibility would fall on whoever's playing 10. It would be a huge call to start Lions tests with a kicker whose boot form is dodgy.
His line kicking in the Prem has been indifferent this season as well.inactionman wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 3:07 pm Russell's kicking has deserted him completely at times - it's happened for Bath, so much so that Spencer and others have taken on kicking at times - but he's in pole position as the best distributor at 10. That hasn't changed.
As I say, he's the top goal kicker in the league. PR has thisinactionman wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 3:07 pm Russell's kicking has deserted him completely at times - it's happened for Bath, so much so that Spencer and others have taken on kicking at times - but he's in pole position as the best distributor at 10. That hasn't changed.
Finn Russell has become deadly accurate off the tee in recent seasons both for club and country. Last Six Nations, he boasted an impressive 95.7% success rate, converting 22 of his 23 attempts – the best success rate of any player to make more than five shots at goal.
For Bath this season, his Premiership success rate has dropped to 77.42% but in the Champions Cup he has succeeded with 92.31% of his 13 attempts, missing just once.
His line kicks on Saturday were coming up very short. He's obviously going through a bit of a blip but I'm sure will recover.SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 3:16 pmHis line kicking in the Prem has been indifferent this season as well.inactionman wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 3:07 pm Russell's kicking has deserted him completely at times - it's happened for Bath, so much so that Spencer and others have taken on kicking at times - but he's in pole position as the best distributor at 10. That hasn't changed.
That said I'll have him travel as 1st choice 10 with the Lions, interesting to see who else Farrell comes up with in that position. Who he chooses as attack coach may have an important say on who starts the first test mind you. Fortunately for all it won't be a current Englaand coach!!!!
Bath are top of the league and he's (usually) our kicker - I'd bloody well hope he's scored a lot of points with the boot. The metric is a bit meaningless. He's kicked 5 penalties in total, the second lowest in the league -the rest are all conversions.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 3:56 pminactionman wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 3:07 pm Russell's kicking has deserted him completely at times - it's happened for Bath, so much so that Spencer and others have taken on kicking at times - but he's in pole position as the best distributor at 10. That hasn't changed.
As I say, he's the top goal kicker in the league. PR has this
Finn Russell has become deadly accurate off the tee in recent seasons both for club and country. Last Six Nations, he boasted an impressive 95.7% success rate, converting 22 of his 23 attempts – the best success rate of any player to make more than five shots at goal.
For Bath this season, his Premiership success rate has dropped to 77.42% but in the Champions Cup he has succeeded with 92.31% of his 13 attempts, missing just once.
I think overall Prendergast has something like 8 percentage points over him, that's one in twelve kicks.
I really like Prendergast, I think he is going to be very very good.
inactionman wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 4:07 pm
Bath are top of the league and he's (usually) our kicker - I'd bloody well hope he's scored a lot of points with the boot. The metric is a bit meaningless.
Well not completely. This was the first time he's missed all his kicks.inactionman wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 3:07 pm Russell's kicking has deserted him completely at times - it's happened for Bath, so much so that Spencer and others have taken on kicking at times - but he's in pole position as the best distributor at 10. That hasn't changed.
With the best will in the world, you're raising stats - I've just responded to say his kicking is not as rosy as you might think. I've watched - where possible - pretty much every Bath game for many years and in the couple of seasons he's been at the Rec he has had some very bad days with the boot*, missing pretty regulation penalties and more significantly missing some key touchfinders. So much so that Spencer has taken on kicking - which isn't as bad as it sounds, as he's a useful left foot option and he's a very good kicker in his own right, but it's not what you expect from a front line kicker.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 4:15 pminactionman wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 4:07 pm
Bath are top of the league and he's (usually) our kicker - I'd bloody well hope he's scored a lot of points with the boot. The metric is a bit meaningless.
Glasgow's kickers are usually very low in term of penalties scored because they very seldom go for the posts - their game plan is different to teams that take the points, perhaps Bath are similar?
There seems to be a move to discredit Russell on the back of kicking stats, but I think he is still the best option for the Lions because the other parts of his game, the parts where he leaves everyone else for dead, these are still in place, at international level at least. I say that last part because I don't have a TNT subscription any more so haven't watched the GP.
I'd think Russell is still easily starting 10 for the Lions, his vision, speed of thought, distribution, ability to take to the line and put people through gaps, level-headedness under pressure, there's so many parts of his game that are truly class-leading. He's done all this for many years. That's what we want from a 10. He's not a great kicker, let someone else kick if we need to.inactionman wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 4:39 pmWith the best will in the world, you're raising stats - I've just responded to say his kicking is not as rosy as you might think. I've watched - where possible - pretty much every Bath game for many years and in the couple of seasons he's been at the Rec he has had some very bad days with the boot*, missing pretty regulation penalties and more significantly missing some key touchfinders. So much so that Spencer has taken on kicking - which isn't as bad as it sounds, as he's a useful left foot option and he's a very good kicker in his own right, but it's not what you expect from a front line kicker.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 4:15 pminactionman wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2025 4:07 pm
Bath are top of the league and he's (usually) our kicker - I'd bloody well hope he's scored a lot of points with the boot. The metric is a bit meaningless.
Glasgow's kickers are usually very low in term of penalties scored because they very seldom go for the posts - their game plan is different to teams that take the points, perhaps Bath are similar?
There seems to be a move to discredit Russell on the back of kicking stats, but I think he is still the best option for the Lions because the other parts of his game, the parts where he leaves everyone else for dead, these are still in place, at international level at least. I say that last part because I don't have a TNT subscription any more so haven't watched the GP.
* as a a complete aside, the worst kicker I've seen live at the Rec was Butch James, so much so that we had to try to win with tries as he'd miss sitters from the 22. I'd had him marked down as a cheap shot hacker but he was actually a very talented playmaker who was great fun to watch. I'd rather they can do that than just kick. I'm definitely Stuart Barnes over Rob Andrew.
Saffers are less popular than Kiwis, so likewise our poaches get more negative attention.Yr Alban wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 11:44 am Have just seen a Q&A with Tom English on the BBC in which someone asked him why it only seems to be Scotland who get grief for picking players born outside the country, when Ireland have so many imports in their team. He agreed that this was the case, and said ‘Ireland get less grief for their ‘foreign’ players probably because they win things.’ I’ve got my issues with the man, but he is 100% on the money here.
This
Jac Morgan says bugger off!!!!dkm57 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 11:57 am Wouldn't let Daley on the plane. Keenan at 15, Lowe and VdM wings, Gibson-Park 9, Fin R 10, centres are a toss up so many really class options, 13 depends on who you have at 12. Basically it's a Scotland/Ireland backline with an Irish/English tight 5 maybe Zander in the front row and the odd Scot in the back row if you really wanted to piss the Aussies off then Currie and Ritche at 7 and 6 would be fun. Kinghorn as one of the 2 backs on the bench covering 10/11/14/15.
Just my very fallible take of course![]()
Honestly it is at least in part the incongruous nature of the surnames. England always took more shit when Mauritz Botha played than Brad BarrittSandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 12:15 pmSaffers are less popular than Kiwis, so likewise our poaches get more negative attention.Yr Alban wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 11:44 am Have just seen a Q&A with Tom English on the BBC in which someone asked him why it only seems to be Scotland who get grief for picking players born outside the country, when Ireland have so many imports in their team. He agreed that this was the case, and said ‘Ireland get less grief for their ‘foreign’ players probably because they win things.’ I’ve got my issues with the man, but he is 100% on the money here.
To be honest I thought he very much got the rub of the ref last weekend, but hey ho, Porter has been riding that wave for a long time now and has a great rep on the back of it.
I'm no expert but I thought he was easily the best prop on show without any help from the ref.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 12:35 pmTo be honest I thought he very much got the rub of the ref last weekend, but hey ho, Porter has been riding that wave for a long time now and has a great rep on the back of it.
Before last weekend Wales had the best performing scrum in the stats and without looking I would guess they continued that run because even the aforementioned Porter got penalised against them. It will be interesting to see how Stuart and Porter match up in a couple of weeks.
SaintK wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 12:48 pmI'm no expert but I thought he was easily the best prop on show without any help from the ref.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 12:35 pmTo be honest I thought he very much got the rub of the ref last weekend, but hey ho, Porter has been riding that wave for a long time now and has a great rep on the back of it.
Before last weekend Wales had the best performing scrum in the stats and without looking I would guess they continued that run because even the aforementioned Porter got penalised against them. It will be interesting to see how Stuart and Porter match up in a couple of weeks.
He was more than equal to Porter and his scrummaging shenanigans when they played earlier in the month.
According to penalties and free kick stats England have gone from the worst performing scrum this 6N to the best.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/ ... nd-scrum
Ahh, that ref again!Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 1:07 pmSaintK wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 12:48 pmI'm no expert but I thought he was easily the best prop on show without any help from the ref.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 12:35 pm
To be honest I thought he very much got the rub of the ref last weekend, but hey ho, Porter has been riding that wave for a long time now and has a great rep on the back of it.
Before last weekend Wales had the best performing scrum in the stats and without looking I would guess they continued that run because even the aforementioned Porter got penalised against them. It will be interesting to see how Stuart and Porter match up in a couple of weeks.
He was more than equal to Porter and his scrummaging shenanigans when they played earlier in the month.
According to penalties and free kick stats England have gone from the worst performing scrum this 6N to the best.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/ ... nd-scrum
I saw you write something along these lines about Stuart on Saturday, I didn't take it up at the time but to my eye he got lucky. Schoeman had the drive on him a couple of times, so much so that Stuart stood up under pressure but the ref didn't give it our way. That's what I mean about lucky. When Genge did exactly the same thing to Fagerson earlier England got the penalty there too. The free kicks for early engagements were part of the whole parcel on Saturday
According to official 6N stats after round 3, France have the most successful scrum with Wales in second, England are third. https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/en/m6n/ ... ?tab=teams
I reckon you are on to something here. I didn’t even realise Finlay Bealham was imported from Australia until this morning, when English mentioned his name in the discussion. But the name doesn’t stand out as ‘not Irish’ (Scottish if anything!) so he can go under the radar. Even CJ Stander had a neutral name. But with Schoeman, Tuipulotu and Van der Merwe, you know they probably didn’t grow up in Scotland (although Oguntibeju actually did).Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 12:25 pmHonestly it is at least in part the incongruous nature of the surnames. England always took more shit when Mauritz Botha played than Brad BarrittSandstorm wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 12:15 pmSaffers are less popular than Kiwis, so likewise our poaches get more negative attention.Yr Alban wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 11:44 am Have just seen a Q&A with Tom English on the BBC in which someone asked him why it only seems to be Scotland who get grief for picking players born outside the country, when Ireland have so many imports in their team. He agreed that this was the case, and said ‘Ireland get less grief for their ‘foreign’ players probably because they win things.’ I’ve got my issues with the man, but he is 100% on the money here.
The Itoje one was ridiculous. Even if the fact both his feet were dangling wasn't enough, he put hands into the ruck after it was formed. He didn't really try to lift as he knew it was blatant, he was just trying to slow it down.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 1:38 pm
Well yes. Just before half time Dave Cherry carried into contact and one of the Currys did a bear crawl forward in the ruck, placed his hands on the ground either side of the ball, then moved his hands on to the ball before picking it up and placing it behind him. No penalty.
Itoje, the law for a start says that players in a ruck must be supporting their own weight with head and shoulders above hips. I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how that includes having both feet off the floor, your arse way above your head whilst your weight is supported by an opposing player, then you pick up the ball from the ruck and bring it back on to your own side. No penalty.
Both of these were in England's 22
I've gone beyond angry or annoyed at these, they are actually funny to me now because they were so bad, but they were the two most obvious ones of many during the game.
It's very easy for supporters of the winning team to stick the knife in further and twist it with a "sour grapes", "ref blaming", "move on" quip, I get that, but it doesn't answer the question as to how the fuck these decisions were given.
I was referring to the scrummaging.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 1:38 pm
Well yes. Just before half time Dave Cherry carried into contact and one of the Currys did a bear crawl forward in the ruck, placed his hands on the ground either side of the ball, then moved his hands on to the ball before picking it up and placing it behind him. No penalty.
Itoje, the law for a start says that players in a ruck must be supporting their own weight with head and shoulders above hips. I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how that includes having both feet off the floor, your arse way above your head whilst your weight is supported by an opposing player, then you pick up the ball from the ruck and bring it back on to your own side. No penalty.
Both of these were in England's 22
I've gone beyond angry or annoyed at these, they are actually funny to me now because they were so bad, but they were the two most obvious ones of many during the game.
It's very easy for supporters of the winning team to stick the knife in further and twist it with a "sour grapes", "ref blaming", "move on" quip, I get that, but it doesn't answer the question as to how the fuck these decisions were given.
SaintK wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 2:31 pmI was referring to the scrummaging.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 1:38 pm
Well yes. Just before half time Dave Cherry carried into contact and one of the Currys did a bear crawl forward in the ruck, placed his hands on the ground either side of the ball, then moved his hands on to the ball before picking it up and placing it behind him. No penalty.
Itoje, the law for a start says that players in a ruck must be supporting their own weight with head and shoulders above hips. I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how that includes having both feet off the floor, your arse way above your head whilst your weight is supported by an opposing player, then you pick up the ball from the ruck and bring it back on to your own side. No penalty.
Both of these were in England's 22
I've gone beyond angry or annoyed at these, they are actually funny to me now because they were so bad, but they were the two most obvious ones of many during the game.
It's very easy for supporters of the winning team to stick the knife in further and twist it with a "sour grapes", "ref blaming", "move on" quip, I get that, but it doesn't answer the question as to how the fuck these decisions were given.
I’m sure that with the moniker Tichtheid you study scrummaging closelyTichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 3:20 pmSaintK wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 2:31 pmI was referring to the scrummaging.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 1:38 pm
Well yes. Just before half time Dave Cherry carried into contact and one of the Currys did a bear crawl forward in the ruck, placed his hands on the ground either side of the ball, then moved his hands on to the ball before picking it up and placing it behind him. No penalty.
Itoje, the law for a start says that players in a ruck must be supporting their own weight with head and shoulders above hips. I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how that includes having both feet off the floor, your arse way above your head whilst your weight is supported by an opposing player, then you pick up the ball from the ruck and bring it back on to your own side. No penalty.
Both of these were in England's 22
I've gone beyond angry or annoyed at these, they are actually funny to me now because they were so bad, but they were the two most obvious ones of many during the game.
It's very easy for supporters of the winning team to stick the knife in further and twist it with a "sour grapes", "ref blaming", "move on" quip, I get that, but it doesn't answer the question as to how the fuck these decisions were given.
So was I initially when I was talking about Genge and Stuart v Fagerson and Schoeman, but the "Ahh, that ref again!" response came across as an eye-rolling one that dismissed what I had said about the scrummaging. So I gave the two most obvious mistakes as examples to start from because as I said, it was part and parcel of the game for us on Saturday.
Peter Wright was absolutely fuming about the two scrum penalties and the early engagement free kicks. Having watched it for the first time I would agree. Scotland clearly had the nudge when Stuart stood up. 99 times out of 100 that's our penalty but not with this clown.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 1:07 pmSaintK wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 12:48 pmI'm no expert but I thought he was easily the best prop on show without any help from the ref.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 12:35 pm
To be honest I thought he very much got the rub of the ref last weekend, but hey ho, Porter has been riding that wave for a long time now and has a great rep on the back of it.
Before last weekend Wales had the best performing scrum in the stats and without looking I would guess they continued that run because even the aforementioned Porter got penalised against them. It will be interesting to see how Stuart and Porter match up in a couple of weeks.
He was more than equal to Porter and his scrummaging shenanigans when they played earlier in the month.
According to penalties and free kick stats England have gone from the worst performing scrum this 6N to the best.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/ ... nd-scrum
I saw you write something along these lines about Stuart on Saturday, I didn't take it up at the time but to my eye he got lucky. Schoeman had the drive on him a couple of times, so much so that Stuart stood up under pressure but the ref didn't give it our way. That's what I mean about lucky. When Genge did exactly the same thing to Fagerson earlier England got the penalty there too. The free kicks for early engagements were part of the whole parcel on Saturday
According to official 6N stats after round 3, France have the most successful scrum with Wales in second, England are third. https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/en/m6n/ ... ?tab=teams
I just don't know what to say about it. We've got:Blackmac wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 7:35 pmPeter Wright was absolutely fuming about the two scrum penalties and the early engagement free kicks. Having watched it for the first time I would agree. Scotland clearly had the nudge when Stuart stood up. 99 times out of 100 that's our penalty but not with this clown.Tichtheid wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 1:07 pmSaintK wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2025 12:48 pm
I'm no expert but I thought he was easily the best prop on show without any help from the ref.
He was more than equal to Porter and his scrummaging shenanigans when they played earlier in the month.
According to penalties and free kick stats England have gone from the worst performing scrum this 6N to the best.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/ ... nd-scrum
I saw you write something along these lines about Stuart on Saturday, I didn't take it up at the time but to my eye he got lucky. Schoeman had the drive on him a couple of times, so much so that Stuart stood up under pressure but the ref didn't give it our way. That's what I mean about lucky. When Genge did exactly the same thing to Fagerson earlier England got the penalty there too. The free kicks for early engagements were part of the whole parcel on Saturday
According to official 6N stats after round 3, France have the most successful scrum with Wales in second, England are third. https://www.sixnationsrugby.com/en/m6n/ ... ?tab=teams