NPR

Tichtheid wrote: Sat May 03, 2025 4:53 pm

robmatic wrote: Sat May 03, 2025 4:37 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Sat May 03, 2025 4:14 pm



I seem to recall that Scotland's 5000 is way more per capita than the rest of the uK

The backlog of asylum cases is about 90000 so I don't think that's correct.

My mistake, having looked again it was Glasgow

In Glasgow, the population of asylum seekers supported by the Home Office was approximately 0.66% of the total population in December 2024, totaling around 4,193 individuals. This translates to roughly one asylum seeker for every 189 residents in the city. Glasgow was the local authority with the most housed asylum seekers in the UK, with approximately 3,900 individuals, or 62 per 10,000 residents

and

In December 2023, Scotland housed approximately 5,500 people seeking asylum, receiving support from the Home Office. This translates to about 8 asylum seekers per 10,000 people living in Scotland. According to the BBC, this is less than the 9 per 10,000 in Wales and half of the 16 per 10,000 in England

dpedin wrote: Sun May 04, 2025 6:04 am

Tichtheid wrote: Sat May 03, 2025 4:53 pm

robmatic wrote: Sat May 03, 2025 4:37 pm

The backlog of asylum cases is about 90000 so I don't think that's correct.

My mistake, having looked again it was Glasgow

In Glasgow, the population of asylum seekers supported by the Home Office was approximately 0.66% of the total population in December 2024, totaling around 4,193 individuals. This translates to roughly one asylum seeker for every 189 residents in the city. Glasgow was the local authority with the most housed asylum seekers in the UK, with approximately 3,900 individuals, or 62 per 10,000 residents

and

In December 2023, Scotland housed approximately 5,500 people seeking asylum, receiving support from the Home Office. This translates to about 8 asylum seekers per 10,000 people living in Scotland. According to the BBC, this is less than the 9 per 10,000 in Wales and half of the 16 per 10,000 in England

Asylum seekers numbers are very small in comparison to immigration more generally. c1.2 million immigrants came legally into UK in 2024 whereas 84k claimed asylum. How asylum seekers get here and how they are treated is very complex and a completely different issue to immigration more generally. Whilst I understand that asylum seekers is a 'hot' political issue for some it is not the same as immigration. It always amazes me how quickly a rational and sensible discussion about immigration into the UK quickly turns to asylum seekers with all the connotations that term carries at the moment.

Tichtheid wrote: Sat May 03, 2025 4:53 pm

robmatic wrote: Sat May 03, 2025 4:37 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Sat May 03, 2025 4:14 pm



I seem to recall that Scotland's 5000 is way more per capita than the rest of the uK

The backlog of asylum cases is about 90000 so I don't think that's correct.

My mistake, having looked again it was Glasgow

In Glasgow, the population of asylum seekers supported by the Home Office was approximately 0.66% of the total population in December 2024, totaling around 4,193 individuals. This translates to roughly one asylum seeker for every 189 residents in the city. Glasgow was the local authority with the most housed asylum seekers in the UK, with approximately 3,900 individuals, or 62 per 10,000 residents

and

In December 2023, Scotland housed approximately 5,500 people seeking asylum, receiving support from the Home Office. This translates to about 8 asylum seekers per 10,000 people living in Scotland. According to the BBC, this is less than the 9 per 10,000 in Wales and half of the 16 per 10,000 in England

dpedin wrote: Sun May 04, 2025 6:04 am

Tichtheid wrote: Sat May 03, 2025 4:53 pm

robmatic wrote: Sat May 03, 2025 4:37 pm

The backlog of asylum cases is about 90000 so I don't think that's correct.

My mistake, having looked again it was Glasgow

In Glasgow, the population of asylum seekers supported by the Home Office was approximately 0.66% of the total population in December 2024, totaling around 4,193 individuals. This translates to roughly one asylum seeker for every 189 residents in the city. Glasgow was the local authority with the most housed asylum seekers in the UK, with approximately 3,900 individuals, or 62 per 10,000 residents

and

In December 2023, Scotland housed approximately 5,500 people seeking asylum, receiving support from the Home Office. This translates to about 8 asylum seekers per 10,000 people living in Scotland. According to the BBC, this is less than the 9 per 10,000 in Wales and half of the 16 per 10,000 in England

Asylum seekers numbers are very small in comparison to immigration more generally. c1.2 million immigrants came legally into UK in 2024 whereas 84k claimed asylum. How asylum seekers get here and how they are treated is very complex and a completely different issue to immigration more generally. Whilst I understand that asylum seekers is a 'hot' political issue for some it is not the same as immigration. It always amazes me how quickly a rational and sensible discussion about immigration into the UK quickly turns to asylum seekers with all the connotations that term carries at the moment.

Cheaper food and drink including rice and tea, footwear and clothing thanks to a welcome trade deal with India. Exactly what Brexit promised.

Hi Jacob, we voted Brexit because we wanted the third worlders to fuck off back to Ongobongoland where they belong actually. That’s the sole reason.

We were told and believed that the EU impeded the process of sending these human bioweapons back to where they came from.

We do not give a solitary fuck about rice prices.

_Os_ wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 5:12 am

Cheaper food and drink including rice and tea, footwear and clothing thanks to a welcome trade deal with India. Exactly what Brexit promised.

Three cheers for Brexit and the Indian trade deal! Just imagine, cheap Indian shoes!

Got to laugh at this highest ranked reply to:

Hi Jacob, we voted Brexit because we wanted the third worlders to fuck off back to Ongobongoland where they belong actually. That’s the sole reason.

We were told and believed that the EU impeded the process of sending these human bioweapons back to where they came from.

We do not give a solitary fuck about rice prices.

I'm old enough to remember the years after the vote, when it was pointed out (by err people like myself) this was what the vote was really about and there was actually no way for Brexit to stop "third worlders". The response to that observation was to say the vote wasn't about that at all, that pointing that out was some sort of racism from the "liberal metropolitan elite" against the English white working class. As the years dragged on and it became entirely obvious European immigration would be swapped for "third worlders" and no one was interested in changing the structure of the UK economy, this too was somehow wrong to point out. A decade later after the fact, suddenly Brexit is actually about stopping non-EU migration, just as bastards like me always said it was.

The really funny thing about the JRM quote, is that is exactly what he always promised. Shit trade deals for "cheap footwear" no one wants and food complying with "Indian standards". The guys who dog whistled the racism and immigration stuff, actually got the votes in, but had no way of delivering. The shit trade deals though, they're happening.

Yeeb wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 11:12 am Seem a yougov link that shows polls for a GE now this minute with reform winning by a landslide ! wtf ?!

Ref 369
LD 87
lab 86
SNP 44
Con 17 (lolz)
Green 7
Plaid 6

I don’t think Tories or LD will get that many , but it’s clear Reform are coming up and perhaps need to have no other slogan than ‘vote Tory, get labour’

robmatic wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 11:35 am

Yeeb wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 11:12 am Seem a yougov link that shows polls for a GE now this minute with reform winning by a landslide ! wtf ?!

Ref 369
LD 87
lab 86
SNP 44
Con 17 (lolz)
Green 7
Plaid 6

I don’t think Tories or LD will get that many , but it’s clear Reform are coming up and perhaps need to have no other slogan than ‘vote Tory, get labour’

I don't think they have the infrastructure as a party to fully capitalize on everybody being fucked off with the Tories and Labour. In a GE, they would need to field a full spread of actual candidates.

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 11:40 am

robmatic wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 11:35 am

Yeeb wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 11:12 am Seem a yougov link that shows polls for a GE now this minute with reform winning by a landslide ! wtf ?!

Ref 369
LD 87
lab 86
SNP 44
Con 17 (lolz)
Green 7
Plaid 6

I don’t think Tories or LD will get that many , but it’s clear Reform are coming up and perhaps need to have no other slogan than ‘vote Tory, get labour’

I don't think they have the infrastructure as a party to fully capitalize on everybody being fucked off with the Tories and Labour. In a GE, they would need to field a full spread of actual candidates.

Fielded enough candidates to sweep county councils, the fact some of them are useless paper ones is no different to when Tories or Labour win landslides. 200,000 members now - they’ll have no issue fielding a slate. Bigger issue is vetting them

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 12:47 pm Extrapolating from local election results is a fool's errand.

That said, a huge amount of th electorate is wilfully low information, so it could happen. Lots of Reform voters are completely ignorant of the party's actual platform. If they're disatisfied with their lives and the state of the country now, wait until Farage and co. get around to privatising everything in sight and putting any and all regulations designed to protect people from the overreach of an unscrupulous owner/employer class into the shredder. They'll be pining for a crap Labour party.

Yeeb wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 12:51 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 12:47 pm Extrapolating from local election results is a fool's errand.

That said, a huge amount of th electorate is wilfully low information, so it could happen. Lots of Reform voters are completely ignorant of the party's actual platform. If they're disatisfied with their lives and the state of the country now, wait until Farage and co. get around to privatising everything in sight and putting any and all regulations designed to protect people from the overreach of an unscrupulous owner/employer class into the shredder. They'll be pining for a crap Labour party.

People voting without any idea of what the party actually wants, is nothing new, nor is dissatisfaction.

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 1:28 pm

Yeeb wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 12:51 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 12:47 pm Extrapolating from local election results is a fool's errand.

That said, a huge amount of th electorate is wilfully low information, so it could happen. Lots of Reform voters are completely ignorant of the party's actual platform. If they're disatisfied with their lives and the state of the country now, wait until Farage and co. get around to privatising everything in sight and putting any and all regulations designed to protect people from the overreach of an unscrupulous owner/employer class into the shredder. They'll be pining for a crap Labour party.

People voting without any idea of what the party actually wants, is nothing new, nor is dissatisfaction.

It's not, but the other parties have been around long enough to broadly know what to expect from them even if you haven't checked their current manifesto and people have the actual evidence of what they've done when in government with the main two.

Yeeb wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 5:20 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 1:28 pm

Yeeb wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 12:51 pm
People voting without any idea of what the party actually wants, is nothing new, nor is dissatisfaction.

It's not, but the other parties have been around long enough to broadly know what to expect from them even if you haven't checked their current manifesto and people have the actual evidence of what they've done when in government with the main two.

Am sure that Reform voters are entirely familiar with what to broadly expect from established parties and the evidence of what they’ve done when in government - that’s the point.

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 6:27 pm

Yeeb wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 5:20 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 1:28 pm

It's not, but the other parties have been around long enough to broadly know what to expect from them even if you haven't checked their current manifesto and people have the actual evidence of what they've done when in government with the main two.

Am sure that Reform voters are entirely familiar with what to broadly expect from established parties and the evidence of what they’ve done when in government - that’s the point.

Right, but 'any change will do' or 'burn it all down because the status quo isn't working for me' gives you Brexit or Trump. Jumping with both feet away from the known quantities into an unknown one, only unknown because they refuse to look any details up, is stupid.

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 6:27 pm

Yeeb wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 5:20 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 1:28 pm

It's not, but the other parties have been around long enough to broadly know what to expect from them even if you haven't checked their current manifesto and people have the actual evidence of what they've done when in government with the main two.

Am sure that Reform voters are entirely familiar with what to broadly expect from established parties and the evidence of what they’ve done when in government - that’s the point.

Right, but 'any change will do' or 'burn it all down because the status quo isn't working for me' gives you Brexit or Trump. Jumping with both feet away from the known quantities into an unknown one, only unknown because they refuse to look any details up, is stupid.

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 8:04 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 6:27 pm

Yeeb wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 5:20 pm

Am sure that Reform voters are entirely familiar with what to broadly expect from established parties and the evidence of what they’ve done when in government - that’s the point.

Right, but 'any change will do' or 'burn it all down because the status quo isn't working for me' gives you Brexit or Trump. Jumping with both feet away from the known quantities into an unknown one, only unknown because they refuse to look any details up, is stupid.

Problem with this is that both known quantities have shown themselves to be hopeless in government, devoid of ideas, unable to turn the dial. Is voting for that status quo really any less stupid than trying a different approach?

fishfoodie wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 8:07 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 8:04 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 6:27 pm

Right, but 'any change will do' or 'burn it all down because the status quo isn't working for me' gives you Brexit or Trump. Jumping with both feet away from the known quantities into an unknown one, only unknown because they refuse to look any details up, is stupid.

Problem with this is that both known quantities have shown themselves to be hopeless in government, devoid of ideas, unable to turn the dial. Is voting for that status quo really any less stupid than trying a different approach?

Hang on; Labour are only in a wet week, & what legislation have they passed that has had a chance to actually do anything yet ????

The UK has been in a gradual death spiral since 2008 & Gideon's austerity plan, so how can anyone reasonably blame the current Labour MPs for anything ?

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 8:22 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 8:07 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 8:04 pm

Problem with this is that both known quantities have shown themselves to be hopeless in government, devoid of ideas, unable to turn the dial. Is voting for that status quo really any less stupid than trying a different approach?

Hang on; Labour are only in a wet week, & what legislation have they passed that has had a chance to actually do anything yet ????

The UK has been in a gradual death spiral since 2008 & Gideon's austerity plan, so how can anyone reasonably blame the current Labour MPs for anything ?

As an anonymous Labour MP pointed out last week, their problem isn’t that they’re not delivering, it’s that people hate what they’re delivering

fishfoodie wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 8:40 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 8:22 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 8:07 pm

Hang on; Labour are only in a wet week, & what legislation have they passed that has had a chance to actually do anything yet ????

The UK has been in a gradual death spiral since 2008 & Gideon's austerity plan, so how can anyone reasonably blame the current Labour MPs for anything ?

As an anonymous Labour MP pointed out last week, their problem isn’t that they’re not delivering, it’s that people hate what they’re delivering

The MP should grow a pair ! If they want to be popular they should fuck off somewhere else; it was popular decisions that got you into this steaming pile of shite.

It's a funking miserable time to be in Government in the UK; there aren't any easy fixes, & there's no pot of gold to pay to fix everything that's broken. The best any UK Government, of any Party could do would be to stop the bleeding, & triage the bits that can be saved, & do whatever the hell they can to get some kind of growth back in the Economy.

In fifty years time the historians will be describing the people who championed Brexit in terms that will Quisling look like a hero.

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 8:04 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 6:27 pm

Yeeb wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 5:20 pm

Am sure that Reform voters are entirely familiar with what to broadly expect from established parties and the evidence of what they’ve done when in government - that’s the point.

Right, but 'any change will do' or 'burn it all down because the status quo isn't working for me' gives you Brexit or Trump. Jumping with both feet away from the known quantities into an unknown one, only unknown because they refuse to look any details up, is stupid.

Problem with this is that both known quantities have shown themselves to be hopeless in government, devoid of ideas, unable to turn the dial. Is voting for that status quo really any less stupid than trying a different approach?

fishfoodie wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 8:40 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 8:22 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 8:07 pm

Hang on; Labour are only in a wet week, & what legislation have they passed that has had a chance to actually do anything yet ????

The UK has been in a gradual death spiral since 2008 & Gideon's austerity plan, so how can anyone reasonably blame the current Labour MPs for anything ?

As an anonymous Labour MP pointed out last week, their problem isn’t that they’re not delivering, it’s that people hate what they’re delivering

The MP should grow a pair ! If they want to be popular they should fuck off somewhere else; it was popular decisions that got you into this steaming pile of shite.

It's a funking miserable time to be in Government in the UK; there aren't any easy fixes, & there's no pot of gold to pay to fix everything that's broken. The best any UK Government, of any Party could do would be to stop the bleeding, & triage the bits that can be saved, & do whatever the hell they can to get some kind of growth back in the Economy.

In fifty years time the historians will be describing the people who championed Brexit in terms that will Quisling look like a hero.

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 9:41 pm
To an extent, but Labour do have a problem in that they're doing things that piss off people on both ends of the political spectrum and some point they will need at least some of those votes again.

On the left I see these as terrible decisions that only cost good will and support:

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 9:41 pm - winter fuel allowance cut off point was wrong and announcing its impact before getting the pension credit take up for those eligible sorted out was dumb. [Stop the bleeding. You can have the triple-lock, but fuck off if you want it & cherries on top for 99.99% of the recipients !]
- 2 child benefit cap being maintained [ Again, only impacts a small percentage, but yes it is one that will need to be gradually reversed]
- allowing regulators to approve yet more above inflationary bill increases for utilities [Where's the money to do what needs to be done ?]
- dragging their heels on doing anything substantive about the water companies [Where's the money to do what needs to be done ?]
- not repealing draconian anti-protest legislation introduced by the Tories [Takes too much time in Parliament, & there's more important work to do !]
- environmental policy (I could write a small essay on this...), but a particular lowlight is the watering down of GB energy's purpose and remit. Also our complete lack of imagination when it comes to energy solutions. The world over, from Germany to Korea, solar panels are built high enough that you can grow orchards beneath them or use them as shade for cars in car parks and along bike routes. When we put panels somewhere in any quantity we stick them right on the bloody ground in fields so that the land cannot be multi-purpose.[Takes too much time in Parliament, & there's more important work to do !]
- no council housing program. Any expert will tell you that their targets have only ever been met during periods of mass council house building. It's what the housing market needs. [Fucking mine field full of NIMBYs & vested interests, they might get started, but its a decades work]
- allowing one steelworks to go bust and saving another [5k people care, the rest don't !]
- Israel stance [Only 1% give a shit]
- continuing to rule out joining the single market [Don't touch the 3rd rail, but if you are going to do it, do it slowly so the muppets don't notice, it's not like the EU will take you back in the next decade anyway !]
- flip-flopping on bankers bonus cap [They might stupidly think it'll get the broadsheet rags off their backs for a week, but it's only ever optics anyway either way]

I'm sure there's more, but that's just off the top of my head.

To their credit, the workers rights legislation is a step in the right direction and doing something about public sector pay after years of inaction or active antagonism from the Tories. That's traditional Labour stuff and they should be doing more of it.

There is absolutely some unpopular stuff they will need to do, but there's also a lot they've chosen to do that doesn't seem especially necessary and sticks in the craw of those who already pinched their noses to vote for an extremely centrist (right of centre...) version of the party. Chasing Reform votes instead of those abandoning them for Lib Dems and Greens will not win them elections.

fishfoodie wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 8:07 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 8:04 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 6:27 pm

Right, but 'any change will do' or 'burn it all down because the status quo isn't working for me' gives you Brexit or Trump. Jumping with both feet away from the known quantities into an unknown one, only unknown because they refuse to look any details up, is stupid.

Problem with this is that both known quantities have shown themselves to be hopeless in government, devoid of ideas, unable to turn the dial. Is voting for that status quo really any less stupid than trying a different approach?

Hang on; Labour are only in a wet week, & what legislation have they passed that has had a chance to actually do anything yet ????

The UK has been in a gradual death spiral since 2008 & Gideon's austerity plan, so how can anyone reasonably blame the current Labour MPs for anything ?

The Maastricht Treaty, specifically its Protocol on the Excessive Deficit Procedure (EDP), sets a reference value of 60% of GDP for the gross government debt to GDP ratio.

In terms of Gross Domestic Product the UK National Debt in 2005 was about 38 percent of GDP.
But in the last ten years, in the wake of the Crash of 2008 and subsequent recession, the National Debt has doubled to over 80 percent GDP, but is leveling out as a percent of GDP. At the end of March 2024 the National Debt was 97.7 percent of GDP.

Tichtheid wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 11:01 pm

The Maastricht Treaty, specifically its Protocol on the Excessive Deficit Procedure (EDP), sets a reference value of 60% of GDP for the gross government debt to GDP ratio.

Public sector debt to GDP had been bumbling around the 40% mark from the 80s to 2008, where it took a sharp increase

here (No. 9) https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... s/sn06167/

and here https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governme ... /hf6x/pusf

In terms of Gross Domestic Product the UK National Debt in 2005 was about 38 percent of GDP.
But in the last ten years, in the wake of the Crash of 2008 and subsequent recession, the National Debt has doubled to over 80 percent GDP, but is leveling out as a percent of GDP. At the end of March 2024 the National Debt was 97.7 percent of GDP.

There was a clear and instant increase in debt to GDP ratio in the wake of the financial crisis of 2008

here https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_n ... t_analysis


There was a huge increase in debt, huge cuts across public services - that money went somewhere, but not to those who needed it.

Biffer wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 7:16 am

Tichtheid wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 11:01 pm

The Maastricht Treaty, specifically its Protocol on the Excessive Deficit Procedure (EDP), sets a reference value of 60% of GDP for the gross government debt to GDP ratio.

Public sector debt to GDP had been bumbling around the 40% mark from the 80s to 2008, where it took a sharp increase

here (No. 9) https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... s/sn06167/

and here https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governme ... /hf6x/pusf

In terms of Gross Domestic Product the UK National Debt in 2005 was about 38 percent of GDP.
But in the last ten years, in the wake of the Crash of 2008 and subsequent recession, the National Debt has doubled to over 80 percent GDP, but is leveling out as a percent of GDP. At the end of March 2024 the National Debt was 97.7 percent of GDP.

There was a clear and instant increase in debt to GDP ratio in the wake of the financial crisis of 2008

here https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_n ... t_analysis


There was a huge increase in debt, huge cuts across public services - that money went somewhere, but not to those who needed it.

This is what gets me. Repeatedly, Tories have racked up debt but they're looked upon as fiscally responsible. I don't understand how people haven't come to realise that yet. Yes there's a media machine pushing that message, but there are so many sources of info now that I struggle to understand how more people haven't seen it.

Tichtheid wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 8:37 am If we distill the 2008 crash down to one cause, it was deregulation, lack of red tape - traditionally a Conservative policy across the world. If New Labour had a glaring fault it was the continuation of that process.

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 9:41 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 8:40 pm

Paddington Bear wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 8:22 pm

As an anonymous Labour MP pointed out last week, their problem isn’t that they’re not delivering, it’s that people hate what they’re delivering

The MP should grow a pair ! If they want to be popular they should fuck off somewhere else; it was popular decisions that got you into this steaming pile of shite.

It's a funking miserable time to be in Government in the UK; there aren't any easy fixes, & there's no pot of gold to pay to fix everything that's broken. The best any UK Government, of any Party could do would be to stop the bleeding, & triage the bits that can be saved, & do whatever the hell they can to get some kind of growth back in the Economy.

In fifty years time the historians will be describing the people who championed Brexit in terms that will Quisling look like a hero.

To an extent, but Labour do have a problem in that they're doing things that piss off people on both ends of the political spectrum and some point they will need at least some of those votes again.

On the left I see these as terrible decisions that only cost good will and support:
- winter fuel allowance cut off point was wrong and announcing its impact before getting the pension credit take up for those eligible sorted out was dumb.
- 2 child benefit cap being maintained
- allowing regulators to approve yet more above inflationary bill increases for utilities
- dragging their heels on doing anything substantive about the water companies
- not repealing draconian anti-protest legislation introduced by the Tories
- environmental policy (I could write a small essay on this...), but a particular lowlight is the watering down of GB energy's purpose and remit. Also our complete lack of imagination when it comes to energy solutions. The world over, from Germany to Korea, solar panels are built high enough that you can grow orchards beneath them or use them as shade for cars in car parks and along bike routes. When we put panels somewhere in any quantity we stick them right on the bloody ground in fields so that the land cannot be multi-purpose.
- no council housing program. Any expert will tell you that their targets have only ever been met during periods of mass council house building. It's what the housing market needs.
- allowing one steelworks to go bust and saving another
- Israel stance
- continuing to rule out joining the single market
- flip-flopping on bankers bonus cap

I'm sure there's more, but that's just off the top of my head.

To their credit, the workers rights legislation is a step in the right direction and doing something about public sector pay after years of inaction or active antagonism from the Tories. That's traditional Labour stuff and they should be doing more of it.

There is absolutely some unpopular stuff they will need to do, but there's also a lot they've chosen to do that doesn't seem especially necessary and sticks in the craw of those who already pinched their noses to vote for an extremely centrist (right of centre...) version of the party. Chasing Reform votes instead of those abandoning them for Lib Dems and Greens will not win them elections.

shaggy wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 9:30 am

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 9:41 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 8:40 pm

The MP should grow a pair ! If they want to be popular they should fuck off somewhere else; it was popular decisions that got you into this steaming pile of shite.

It's a funking miserable time to be in Government in the UK; there aren't any easy fixes, & there's no pot of gold to pay to fix everything that's broken. The best any UK Government, of any Party could do would be to stop the bleeding, & triage the bits that can be saved, & do whatever the hell they can to get some kind of growth back in the Economy.

In fifty years time the historians will be describing the people who championed Brexit in terms that will Quisling look like a hero.

To an extent, but Labour do have a problem in that they're doing things that piss off people on both ends of the political spectrum and some point they will need at least some of those votes again.

On the left I see these as terrible decisions that only cost good will and support:
- winter fuel allowance cut off point was wrong and announcing its impact before getting the pension credit take up for those eligible sorted out was dumb.
- 2 child benefit cap being maintained
- allowing regulators to approve yet more above inflationary bill increases for utilities
- dragging their heels on doing anything substantive about the water companies
- not repealing draconian anti-protest legislation introduced by the Tories
- environmental policy (I could write a small essay on this...), but a particular lowlight is the watering down of GB energy's purpose and remit. Also our complete lack of imagination when it comes to energy solutions. The world over, from Germany to Korea, solar panels are built high enough that you can grow orchards beneath them or use them as shade for cars in car parks and along bike routes. When we put panels somewhere in any quantity we stick them right on the bloody ground in fields so that the land cannot be multi-purpose.
- no council housing program. Any expert will tell you that their targets have only ever been met during periods of mass council house building. It's what the housing market needs.
- allowing one steelworks to go bust and saving another
- Israel stance
- continuing to rule out joining the single market
- flip-flopping on bankers bonus cap

I'm sure there's more, but that's just off the top of my head.

To their credit, the workers rights legislation is a step in the right direction and doing something about public sector pay after years of inaction or active antagonism from the Tories. That's traditional Labour stuff and they should be doing more of it.

There is absolutely some unpopular stuff they will need to do, but there's also a lot they've chosen to do that doesn't seem especially necessary and sticks in the craw of those who already pinched their noses to vote for an extremely centrist (right of centre...) version of the party. Chasing Reform votes instead of those abandoning them for Lib Dems and Greens will not win them elections.

Last time I checked there was brownfield sites within London alone for 300,000 homes. Nationally I think it was 1.2m homes.

They should be using all their power and influence to start building on these plots, rather than go after greenbelt land. Yes I know it is cheaper, but they said they were going to make difficult decisions, which they have not in this case. Plus, these new homes will not necessarily be where people need them ie close to existing infrastructure or jobs.

Yeeb wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 9:22 am

Tichtheid wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 8:37 am If we distill the 2008 crash down to one cause, it was deregulation, lack of red tape - traditionally a Conservative policy across the world. If New Labour had a glaring fault it was the continuation of that process.

Absolutely it was rogue compliance and those financial WMD. Actually worked as RM on several funds holding funky collatoralised auto financial loans, the valuations never made sense to me and was soon apparent why when the house of cards fell. Takes smarter people than I to package a bunch of stinky turds as an asset and sell for an inflated imaginary price. There were actually sub classes tranches of loans that had failed , again repackaged and resold to some other mug.

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 10:25 am

Yeeb wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 9:22 am

Tichtheid wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 8:37 am If we distill the 2008 crash down to one cause, it was deregulation, lack of red tape - traditionally a Conservative policy across the world. If New Labour had a glaring fault it was the continuation of that process.

Absolutely it was rogue compliance and those financial WMD. Actually worked as RM on several funds holding funky collatoralised auto financial loans, the valuations never made sense to me and was soon apparent why when the house of cards fell. Takes smarter people than I to package a bunch of stinky turds as an asset and sell for an inflated imaginary price. There were actually sub classes tranches of loans that had failed , again repackaged and resold to some other mug.

They managed to finagle a legal Ponzi scheme, and an awful lot of the bosses were very well rewarded for doing so.

shaggy wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 9:30 am

sockwithaticket wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 9:41 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Wed May 07, 2025 8:40 pm

The MP should grow a pair ! If they want to be popular they should fuck off somewhere else; it was popular decisions that got you into this steaming pile of shite.

It's a funking miserable time to be in Government in the UK; there aren't any easy fixes, & there's no pot of gold to pay to fix everything that's broken. The best any UK Government, of any Party could do would be to stop the bleeding, & triage the bits that can be saved, & do whatever the hell they can to get some kind of growth back in the Economy.

In fifty years time the historians will be describing the people who championed Brexit in terms that will Quisling look like a hero.

To an extent, but Labour do have a problem in that they're doing things that piss off people on both ends of the political spectrum and some point they will need at least some of those votes again.

On the left I see these as terrible decisions that only cost good will and support:
- winter fuel allowance cut off point was wrong and announcing its impact before getting the pension credit take up for those eligible sorted out was dumb.
- 2 child benefit cap being maintained
- allowing regulators to approve yet more above inflationary bill increases for utilities
- dragging their heels on doing anything substantive about the water companies
- not repealing draconian anti-protest legislation introduced by the Tories
- environmental policy (I could write a small essay on this...), but a particular lowlight is the watering down of GB energy's purpose and remit. Also our complete lack of imagination when it comes to energy solutions. The world over, from Germany to Korea, solar panels are built high enough that you can grow orchards beneath them or use them as shade for cars in car parks and along bike routes. When we put panels somewhere in any quantity we stick them right on the bloody ground in fields so that the land cannot be multi-purpose.
- no council housing program. Any expert will tell you that their targets have only ever been met during periods of mass council house building. It's what the housing market needs.
- allowing one steelworks to go bust and saving another
- Israel stance
- continuing to rule out joining the single market
- flip-flopping on bankers bonus cap

I'm sure there's more, but that's just off the top of my head.

To their credit, the workers rights legislation is a step in the right direction and doing something about public sector pay after years of inaction or active antagonism from the Tories. That's traditional Labour stuff and they should be doing more of it.

There is absolutely some unpopular stuff they will need to do, but there's also a lot they've chosen to do that doesn't seem especially necessary and sticks in the craw of those who already pinched their noses to vote for an extremely centrist (right of centre...) version of the party. Chasing Reform votes instead of those abandoning them for Lib Dems and Greens will not win them elections.

Last time I checked there was brownfield sites within London alone for 300,000 homes. Nationally I think it was 1.2m homes.

They should be using all their power and influence to start building on these plots, rather than go after greenbelt land. Yes I know it is cheaper, but they said they were going to make difficult decisions, which they have not in this case. Plus, these new homes will not necessarily be where people need them ie close to existing infrastructure or jobs.

Hal Jordan wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 12:39 pm They're bitching about maybe having to put solar panels on roofs now.

Sandstorm wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 12:45 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: Thu May 08, 2025 12:39 pm They're bitching about maybe having to put solar panels on roofs now.

Stupid to moan about it because the developer just passes that extra cost onto the buyer.