The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Slick]

I'm afraid the only truly Scottish way forward next weekend is a heroic win away in Paris, only to still finish 4th and hand an average to good England team the title.

It’s written in the stars

[I like neeps]

Who cares if England win the six nations. A win in a full SdF against the French on a high would be a monumental win. Nae chance it happens.

[Slick]

ARRGHHHHHHH HOW DID WE LOSE TO THIS FUCKING RABBLE!

[topofthemoon]

The half backs take a lot of the blame for me as well as the forwards.

Horne was content to let the forwards pick and go when he should have been screaming for them to leave it. Jordan should also have been giving Horne verbals to get the ball moving.

Against France last year with 80 minutes on the clock there were 14 Frenchmen within 5m of the final ruck. About 50m of the width of the pitch with only 1 white jersey in it. Being held up there cost us the game, not just a better margin of victory. White and Russell were the half backs at that point.

And they deserved a lot of the blame then too.

Just felt like the subs from yesterday were getting a bit of a hammering whereas I think this a more fundamental issue for Scotland, no matter the personnel.

[I like neeps]

Italy have had a really poor six nations it must be said. Have barely been competitive.

[fishfoodie]

I'm afraid the only truly Scottish way forward next weekend is a heroic win away in Paris, only to still finish 4th and hand an average to good England team the title.

It’s written in the stars

You'll be stuck with your coach, but England will be stuck with theirs too ?

Pretty thin gruel if you're a fan of either side.

[Slick]

I'm afraid the only truly Scottish way forward next weekend is a heroic win away in Paris, only to still finish 4th and hand an average to good England team the title.

It’s written in the stars

You'll be stuck with your coach, but England will be stuck with theirs too ?

Pretty thin gruel if you're a fan of either side.

I think Townsend will leave before the next 6N

[LenCohen]

Wow you lot take this all too seriously. We have about 80 pro players, and absolutely nothing below pro level, it's really a miracle we are competitive internationally at all. Just enjoy the great rugby they play at times. Russell will retire in a few years so enjoy it while it lasts as we will never play rugby again like this once he's gone.

[Slick]

Wow you lot take this all too seriously. We have about 80 pro players, and absolutely nothing below pro level, it's really a miracle we are competitive internationally at all. Just enjoy the great rugby they play at times. Russell will retire in a few years so enjoy it while it lasts as we will never play rugby again like this once he's gone.

Sadly, I 100% agree. This is the most enjoyable period of watching Scotland I’ve ever had and is probably as good as we can expect.

I was thinking about life after Finn last night, and it’s quite ugly.

In saying that, the England loss is still really bothering me. But actually, probably for the reasons above, how many more times in my lifetime are we going to go down to England and totally outplay them.

One thing I would disagree on is taking it too seriously, it’s our passion, of course we do, and that’s fine

[Tichtheid]

Wow you lot take this all too seriously. We have about 80 pro players, and absolutely nothing below pro level, it's really a miracle we are competitive internationally at all. Just enjoy the great rugby they play at times. Russell will retire in a few years so enjoy it while it lasts as we will never play rugby again like this once he's gone.

Sadly, I 100% agree. This is the most enjoyable period of watching Scotland I’ve ever had and is probably as good as we can expect.

I was thinking about life after Finn last night, and it’s quite ugly.

In saying that, the England loss is still really bothering me. But actually, probably for the reasons above, how many more times in my lifetime are we going to go down to England and totally outplay them.

One thing I would disagree on is taking it too seriously, it’s our passion, of course we do, and that’s fine

I’m quietly confident about the next cohort of 25 and unders coming up to replace the guys playing now, some like Ollie Blyth Lafferty and Freddy Douglas are still under 20.
The only one I’m really concerned about is Finn, I haven’t seen Fergus Burke play but from the others Hastings is the best we’ve got and he’s had his injury woes.

[Yr Alban]

Wow you lot take this all too seriously. We have about 80 pro players, and absolutely nothing below pro level, it's really a miracle we are competitive internationally at all. Just enjoy the great rugby they play at times. Russell will retire in a few years so enjoy it while it lasts as we will never play rugby again like this once he's gone.

Sadly, I 100% agree. This is the most enjoyable period of watching Scotland I’ve ever had and is probably as good as we can expect.

I was thinking about life after Finn last night, and it’s quite ugly.

In saying that, the England loss is still really bothering me. But actually, probably for the reasons above, how many more times in my lifetime are we going to go down to England and totally outplay them.

One thing I would disagree on is taking it too seriously, it’s our passion, of course we do, and that’s fine

I’m quietly confident about the next cohort of 25 and unders coming up to replace the guys playing now, some like Ollie Blyth Lafferty and Freddy Douglas are still under 20.
The only one I’m really concerned about is Finn, I haven’t seen Fergus Burke play but from the others Hastings is the best we’ve got and he’s had his injury woes.

We’re all concerned about Finn, but he’s probably good for a few years yet. There are some players whose loss would leave any team poorer, and he’s one of them. However, we have weathered the retirements of multiple other players we thought would be impossible to replace, and we’ve replaced them. Hopefully Burke will work out well enough that the step down won’t seem too awful.

[Tichtheid]

Sadly, I 100% agree. This is the most enjoyable period of watching Scotland I’ve ever had and is probably as good as we can expect.

I was thinking about life after Finn last night, and it’s quite ugly.

In saying that, the England loss is still really bothering me. But actually, probably for the reasons above, how many more times in my lifetime are we going to go down to England and totally outplay them.

One thing I would disagree on is taking it too seriously, it’s our passion, of course we do, and that’s fine

I’m quietly confident about the next cohort of 25 and unders coming up to replace the guys playing now, some like Ollie Blyth Lafferty and Freddy Douglas are still under 20.
The only one I’m really concerned about is Finn, I haven’t seen Fergus Burke play but from the others Hastings is the best we’ve got and he’s had his injury woes.

We’re all concerned about Finn, but he’s probably good for a few years yet. There are some players whose loss would leave any team poorer, and he’s one of them. However, we have weathered the retirements of multiple other players we thought would be impossible to replace, and we’ve replaced them. Hopefully Burke will work out well enough that the step down won’t seem too awful.

I'm just thinking about what the team might look like in 6 or 7 year's time, it might be something along the lines of

Oliver McKenna, Paddy Harrison, Ollie Blyth-Lafferty
Euan McVie, Max Williamson
Liam McConnell, Freddy Douglas, Reuben Logan

Jamie Dobie, ?
? Matt Currie
Harry Paterson, Ollie Smith, ?

I've got gaps at 10, 12 and 14. I've deliberately left out anyone who is in the first team squad right now, though Dobie is arguably in there and Williamson probably would be if fit. Anyway, the point is that is a good team right now, once the pack have matured I think they will be as competitive as the firsts are now, if not more so.

Jack Brown and Fergus Watson in the current U20s look to have something about them for the back three, there are a couple of scrum half's who could step up in both the Embra and Glasgow set up. I'd like to think Urwin and Coates might make a play for the 10 shirt. As one of wee Darcy's cheerleaders, I do fear that Coates is on the small side for a professional 10 - he makes Marcus Smith look big.

[Punter15]

I’m quietly confident about the next cohort of 25 and unders coming up to replace the guys playing now, some like Ollie Blyth Lafferty and Freddy Douglas are still under 20.
The only one I’m really concerned about is Finn, I haven’t seen Fergus Burke play but from the others Hastings is the best we’ve got and he’s had his injury woes.

We’re all concerned about Finn, but he’s probably good for a few years yet. There are some players whose loss would leave any team poorer, and he’s one of them. However, we have weathered the retirements of multiple other players we thought would be impossible to replace, and we’ve replaced them. Hopefully Burke will work out well enough that the step down won’t seem too awful.

I'm just thinking about what the team might look like in 6 or 7 year's time, it might be something along the lines of

Oliver McKenna, Paddy Harrison, Ollie Blyth-Lafferty
Euan McVie, Max Williamson
Liam McConnell, Freddy Douglas, Reuben Logan

Jamie Dobie, ?
? Matt Currie
Harry Paterson, Ollie Smith, ?

I've got gaps at 10, 12 and 14. I've deliberately left out anyone who is in the first team squad right now, though Dobie is arguably in there and Williamson probably would be if fit. Anyway, the point is that is a good team right now, once the pack have matured I think they will be as competitive as the firsts are now, if not more so.

Jack Brown and Fergus Watson in the current U20s look to have something about them for the back three, there are a couple of scrum half's who could step up in both the Embra and Glasgow set up. I'd like to think Urwin and Coates might make a play for the 10 shirt. As one of wee Darcy's cheerleaders, I do fear that Coates is on the small side for a professional 10 - he makes Marcus Smith look big.

I’d put Cowan up there,. Urwin has had an iffy tournament and has struggled with his kicking, but has a great pass - jury’s out.

[Tichtheid]

We’re all concerned about Finn, but he’s probably good for a few years yet. There are some players whose loss would leave any team poorer, and he’s one of them. However, we have weathered the retirements of multiple other players we thought would be impossible to replace, and we’ve replaced them. Hopefully Burke will work out well enough that the step down won’t seem too awful.

I'm just thinking about what the team might look like in 6 or 7 year's time, it might be something along the lines of

Oliver McKenna, Paddy Harrison, Ollie Blyth-Lafferty
Euan McVie, Max Williamson
Liam McConnell, Freddy Douglas, Reuben Logan

Jamie Dobie, ?
? Matt Currie
Harry Paterson, Ollie Smith, ?

I've got gaps at 10, 12 and 14. I've deliberately left out anyone who is in the first team squad right now, though Dobie is arguably in there and Williamson probably would be if fit. Anyway, the point is that is a good team right now, once the pack have matured I think they will be as competitive as the firsts are now, if not more so.

Jack Brown and Fergus Watson in the current U20s look to have something about them for the back three, there are a couple of scrum half's who could step up in both the Embra and Glasgow set up. I'd like to think Urwin and Coates might make a play for the 10 shirt. As one of wee Darcy's cheerleaders, I do fear that Coates is on the small side for a professional 10 - he makes Marcus Smith look big.

I’d put Cowan up there,. Urwin has had an iffy tournament and has struggled with his kicking, but has a great pass - jury’s out.

Yeah I’ve undoubtedly missed a good few, Hector Patterson is highly thought of for example.

It may be interesting to see how many of those make it and are regulars for Scotland in six or seven years

[Tichtheid]

[Yr Alban]

Just checked, and Adam Hastings is 28, 4 years younger than Finn. I’ve always rated him as a player, he just struggles to stay fit. Once Finn calls it a day, he’ll be a decent option for a few years at least. I don’t think we’re at risk of going back to the dark days of Dan Parks just yet.

[Biffer]

Just checked, and Adam Hastings is 28, 4 years younger than Finn. I’ve always rated him as a player, he just struggles to stay fit. Once Finn calls it a day, he’ll be a decent option for a few years at least. I don’t think we’re at risk of going back to the dark days of Dan Parks just yet.

Similarly, Jordan is 26, and was decent enough v Italy.

Problem we have is that there will be a section of the support who'll insist whoever is in the hot seat is shit because they’re not as good as Russell.

[Biffer]

Mann, Hastings, Steyn and Masibaka added to the squad for the France game. Redpath, Reed, Henderson and Hutchison all return to their clubs. Good to see Steyn fit again.

[Slick]

Just checked, and Adam Hastings is 28, 4 years younger than Finn. I’ve always rated him as a player, he just struggles to stay fit. Once Finn calls it a day, he’ll be a decent option for a few years at least. I don’t think we’re at risk of going back to the dark days of Dan Parks just yet.

I must say that I thought Hastings was quite a bit older than that!

I'm perfectly happy with Hastings, thought he was superb when Finn went huffy. The problem over the last few years has been the same as what is coming, the drop off from those 2 is massive.

[Biffer]

Just checked, and Adam Hastings is 28, 4 years younger than Finn. I’ve always rated him as a player, he just struggles to stay fit. Once Finn calls it a day, he’ll be a decent option for a few years at least. I don’t think we’re at risk of going back to the dark days of Dan Parks just yet.

I must say that I thought Hastings was quite a bit older than that!

I'm perfectly happy with Hastings, thought he was superb when Finn went huffy. The problem over the last few years has been the same as what is coming, the drop off from those 2 is massive.

But a dozen years ago we didn't even have one at that standard, and we didn't think there was much coming through. Now we have Finn plus those two. I don't see how anyone thinks that being in a better position than we were then is somehow a recipe for disaster. Our system is better than it was - doesn't mean we don't need to improve it more, but it's undoubtedly better.

[Slick]

Just checked, and Adam Hastings is 28, 4 years younger than Finn. I’ve always rated him as a player, he just struggles to stay fit. Once Finn calls it a day, he’ll be a decent option for a few years at least. I don’t think we’re at risk of going back to the dark days of Dan Parks just yet.

I must say that I thought Hastings was quite a bit older than that!

I'm perfectly happy with Hastings, thought he was superb when Finn went huffy. The problem over the last few years has been the same as what is coming, the drop off from those 2 is massive.

But a dozen years ago we didn't even have one at that standard, and we didn't think there was much coming through. Now we have Finn plus those two. I don't see how anyone thinks that being in a better position than we were then is somehow a recipe for disaster. Our system is better than it was - doesn't mean we don't need to improve it more, but it's undoubtedly better.

Which other 2? Hastings and?

[Biffer]

I must say that I thought Hastings was quite a bit older than that!

I'm perfectly happy with Hastings, thought he was superb when Finn went huffy. The problem over the last few years has been the same as what is coming, the drop off from those 2 is massive.

But a dozen years ago we didn't even have one at that standard, and we didn't think there was much coming through. Now we have Finn plus those two. I don't see how anyone thinks that being in a better position than we were then is somehow a recipe for disaster. Our system is better than it was - doesn't mean we don't need to improve it more, but it's undoubtedly better.

Which other 2? Hastings and?

Jordan.

[Slick]

But a dozen years ago we didn't even have one at that standard, and we didn't think there was much coming through. Now we have Finn plus those two. I don't see how anyone thinks that being in a better position than we were then is somehow a recipe for disaster. Our system is better than it was - doesn't mean we don't need to improve it more, but it's undoubtedly better.

Which other 2? Hastings and?

Jordan.

Not convinced, but yeah, better than it has been in the past for sure.

[Biffer]

Which other 2? Hastings and?

Jordan.

Not convinced, but yeah, better than it has been in the past for sure.

Point I'm making is that this 'huge drop off' narrative isn't really correct. There's a drop off, sure. But it's not that wailing disaster it's sometimes made out to be.

[Tichtheid]

There's also 25 year old Burke who is the starting 10 for Saracens. As mentioned earlier I haven't seen him play, but he's getting Premiership and Champion's Cup experience, having also played for the Crusaders. He seems to have played a fair number of games at 15 for the New Zealand outfit before being picked at 10.

[Slick]

There's also 25 year old Burke who is the starting 10 for Saracens. As mentioned earlier I haven't seen him play, but he's getting Premiership and Champion's Cup experience, having also played for the Crusaders. He seems to have played a fair number of games at 15 for the New Zealand outfit before being picked at 10.

Yeah, but until I see him play I just can't get Laney and Parks out of my head

[Tichtheid]

There's also 25 year old Burke who is the starting 10 for Saracens. As mentioned earlier I haven't seen him play, but he's getting Premiership and Champion's Cup experience, having also played for the Crusaders. He seems to have played a fair number of games at 15 for the New Zealand outfit before being picked at 10.

Yeah, but until I see him play I just can't get Laney and Parks out of my head

think of Lineen and Leslie instead, don't worry, be happy, as the song goes

Speaking of Sarries btw, we still have 25 year old Andy Onyeama-Christie to come back.

I'm pretty optimistic about our immediate and midterm prospects.

[Paddington Bear]

There's also 25 year old Burke who is the starting 10 for Saracens. As mentioned earlier I haven't seen him play, but he's getting Premiership and Champion's Cup experience, having also played for the Crusaders. He seems to have played a fair number of games at 15 for the New Zealand outfit before being picked at 10.

Yeah, but until I see him play I just can't get Laney and Parks out of my head

He, erm, has a bad game in him, let’s put it that way.

Clearly very talented but a long way off international standard right now

[I like neeps]

Jordan.

Not convinced, but yeah, better than it has been in the past for sure.

Point I'm making is that this 'huge drop off' narrative isn't really correct. There's a drop off, sure. But it's not that wailing disaster it's sometimes made out to be.

The drop off is from world class 10 to very questionable if they are international class 10s. It is huge.

I liked Hastings but his last few years have been lost to injury and the resulting inconsistency. I think Glasgow need a 10 next year.

Jordan if he starts weekly for Bristol will be the answer and he has a lot of very gold attributes so we shall see.

[KingBlairhorn]

Not convinced, but yeah, better than it has been in the past for sure.

Point I'm making is that this 'huge drop off' narrative isn't really correct. There's a drop off, sure. But it's not that wailing disaster it's sometimes made out to be.

The drop off is from world class 10 to very questionable if they are international class 10s. It is huge.

I liked Hastings but his last few years have been lost to injury and the resulting inconsistency. I think Glasgow need a 10 next year.

Jordan if he starts weekly for Bristol will be the answer and he has a lot of very gold attributes so we shall see.

I think 12 is his position. I think we saw at the weekend that he is not a top international 10, despite being very good at club level. He is, however, an international quality 12 who can deputise at 10 (and fullback apparently) in case of emergency.

[Yr Alban]

There's also 25 year old Burke who is the starting 10 for Saracens. As mentioned earlier I haven't seen him play, but he's getting Premiership and Champion's Cup experience, having also played for the Crusaders. He seems to have played a fair number of games at 15 for the New Zealand outfit before being picked at 10.

Yeah, but until I see him play I just can't get Laney and Parks out of my head

He, erm, has a bad game in him, let’s put it that way.

Clearly very talented but a long way off international standard right now

I really want Burke to be amazing, because I’m pissed off Fin Smith opted for England, and I think England would have taken Burke if he hadn’t.

Even if he doesn’t, I think we are far better placed than we were before Finn came along. In case anyone has forgotten, we had reached the point of desperation that we were playing Greig Laidlaw out of position at 10.

[Slick]

Point I'm making is that this 'huge drop off' narrative isn't really correct. There's a drop off, sure. But it's not that wailing disaster it's sometimes made out to be.

The drop off is from world class 10 to very questionable if they are international class 10s. It is huge.

I liked Hastings but his last few years have been lost to injury and the resulting inconsistency. I think Glasgow need a 10 next year.

Jordan if he starts weekly for Bristol will be the answer and he has a lot of very gold attributes so we shall see.

I think 12 is his position. I think we saw at the weekend that he is not a top international 10, despite being very good at club level. He is, however, an international quality 12 who can deputise at 10 (and fullback apparently) in case of emergency.

Yeah, I decided not to be critical of him at 10 on Saturday because it was a collective shit the bed and certainly not all his fault, but the drop in control when he and Horne took over was very worrying.

[Jock42]

The drop off is from world class 10 to very questionable if they are international class 10s. It is huge.

I liked Hastings but his last few years have been lost to injury and the resulting inconsistency. I think Glasgow need a 10 next year.

Jordan if he starts weekly for Bristol will be the answer and he has a lot of very gold attributes so we shall see.

I think 12 is his position. I think we saw at the weekend that he is not a top international 10, despite being very good at club level. He is, however, an international quality 12 who can deputise at 10 (and fullback apparently) in case of emergency.

Yeah, I decided not to be critical of him at 10 on Saturday because it was a collective shit the bed and certainly not all his fault, but the drop in control when he and Horne took over was very worrying.

There was certainly an element of that. But this isn't an 80 minute team and they'd played 55-60 minutes without switching off by that point.

KingBlair, Jordan has played a couple of games at 10 at international level, far too early to write him off as international class particularly when he's played in 3 different positions in half a dozen caps.

[dpedin]

Teams evolve and adapt depending on the resources they have available. Scotland have developed a team and attack around Russell because he is world class, however lots of successful teams do well without a world class 10 like Russell in their ranks. Whilst we have a number of options once Russell retires, we might end up depending a lot more on the likes of Tuipulotu at 12 for the playmaker role, as we often do at the moment. You could argue that Glasgow did very well without a top class 10 in their ranks last season - injury to Hastings meant Jordan, a centre, and an aging Meatball stepped into the role and the team adapted their game to attack from other areas of the pitch.

[I like neeps]

The drop off is from world class 10 to very questionable if they are international class 10s. It is huge.

I liked Hastings but his last few years have been lost to injury and the resulting inconsistency. I think Glasgow need a 10 next year.

Jordan if he starts weekly for Bristol will be the answer and he has a lot of very gold attributes so we shall see.

I think 12 is his position. I think we saw at the weekend that he is not a top international 10, despite being very good at club level. He is, however, an international quality 12 who can deputise at 10 (and fullback apparently) in case of emergency.

Yeah, I decided not to be critical of him at 10 on Saturday because it was a collective shit the bed and certainly not all his fault, but the drop in control when he and Horne took over was very worrying.

We've seen Jordan control big club games from 10 beautifully. The Wales debacle was the fault of the lack of leadership on and off the pitch.

[Slick]

Teams evolve and adapt depending on the resources they have available. Scotland have developed a team and attack around Russell because he is world class, however lots of successful teams do well without a world class 10 like Russell in their ranks. Whilst we have a number of options once Russell retires, we might end up depending a lot more on the likes of Tuipulotu at 12 for the playmaker role, as we often do at the moment. You could argue that Glasgow did very well without a top class 10 in their ranks last season - injury to Hastings meant Jordan, a centre, and an aging Meatball stepped into the role and the team adapted their game to attack from other areas of the pitch.

This is a good post

[I like neeps]

Teams evolve and adapt depending on the resources they have available. Scotland have developed a team and attack around Russell because he is world class, however lots of successful teams do well without a world class 10 like Russell in their ranks. Whilst we have a number of options once Russell retires, we might end up depending a lot more on the likes of Tuipulotu at 12 for the playmaker role, as we often do at the moment. You could argue that Glasgow did very well without a top class 10 in their ranks last season - injury to Hastings meant Jordan, a centre, and an aging Meatball stepped into the role and the team adapted their game to attack from other areas of the pitch.

Is Jordan a center? Played 10 for the Bulls mostly.

[Yr Alban]

Teams evolve and adapt depending on the resources they have available. Scotland have developed a team and attack around Russell because he is world class, however lots of successful teams do well without a world class 10 like Russell in their ranks. Whilst we have a number of options once Russell retires, we might end up depending a lot more on the likes of Tuipulotu at 12 for the playmaker role, as we often do at the moment. You could argue that Glasgow did very well without a top class 10 in their ranks last season - injury to Hastings meant Jordan, a centre, and an aging Meatball stepped into the role and the team adapted their game to attack from other areas of the pitch.

This is a good post

It is a good post. It is possible to be a contender at international level without having a superstar at 10. Wales did it with Biggar for a number of years - great player, reliable as hell, but not box office.