NPR

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:11 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:32 am

And this is a little bizarre, possibly a black market theft and supply of cameras needed for Russian drones



https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/150- ... de-stolder

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:13 am Is it still the case that military in civilian clothing can be shot out of hand?

Can't see Ukraine wasting their soldiers lives in frontal attacks on the city. They will bypass them and hit a weaker spot.

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 1:12 pm I thought they'd try to use civilians as a human shield to protect their own soldiers. Maybe that's still their plan.

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Thu Oct 20, 2022 7:49 pm BBC News - Damaged cable leaves Shetland cut off from mainland
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... d-63326102

Suspicious...

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 3:21 pm This all goes down quickly.

petej wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 3:52 pm

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 3:21 pm This all goes down quickly.

Totally crazy only about 10 seconds between being hit by the missile and being on the ground.

Mahoney wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:48 am
As far as I could tell there was almost no time between being hit and him ejecting - how on earth did he respond so quickly? My brief google suggests that SU-25s don't have automatic ejection.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 3:03 pm

Mahoney wrote: ↑Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:48 am
As far as I could tell there was almost no time between being hit and him ejecting - how on earth did he respond so quickly? My brief google suggests that SU-25s don't have automatic ejection.

Evolution in action.

He's probably an experienced low-level pilot, & he knows that there's no fucking around, trying to save the aircraft, or make an emergency landing, or any such shite.

His only possible action was to eject the instant he was hit, & his reactions were good enough to get him out alive.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 9:51 am Imagine doing this job and going home at the end of the day satisfied with what you've done

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:08 pm It's completely different. I won't explain why as you would have to Russian or thick as fuck not to see how those operators and the American operators are

Calculon wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 9:34 pm I would think that power stations are legitimate military targets, and in defence of the Russians, I think generally when they’ve hit hospitals, apartment blocks and children’s playgrounds - it’s mostly due to faulty targeting or inaccurate missiles. Not that they seem to care about that, and the Russian state is fascistic in nature and have openly stated their intent on committing genocide in Ukraine, engaged in systematic torture, rape, looting, and the murder of Ukrainian civilians, and the torture and murder of Ukrainian POWs.

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 7:24 am South Afeicans and Russians up a tree K.I.S.S.I.N.G

laurent wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 5:58 am

Calculon wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 9:34 pm I would think that power stations are legitimate military targets, and in defence of the Russians, I think generally when they’ve hit hospitals, apartment blocks and children’s playgrounds - it’s mostly due to faulty targeting or inaccurate missiles. Not that they seem to care about that, and the Russian state is fascistic in nature and have openly stated their intent on committing genocide in Ukraine, engaged in systematic torture, rape, looting, and the murder of Ukrainian civilians, and the torture and murder of Ukrainian POWs.

Power Stations are civilian target. The military operate without them in all areas. The Russian military and government are operating a blitz against civilians in the hope that they will turn against their government. Seeing that the Ukrainian are winning ground back on the field this is quite unlikely.

Blake wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:53 am

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 7:24 am South Afeicans and Russians up a tree K.I.S.S.I.N.G

Yeah, no. It's a little more nuanced than that.

My support for Ukraine and condemnation of Russia's actions is unconditional.

My comment was more related to soldiers, specifically those programming missiles or piloting drones, being vilified for hitting (or attempting to hit) civilian targets. Regardless of if they are Russian or American, they get orders to hit target coordinates thousands of miles away without necessarily seeing it or knowing what it is. If they are lucky they might get some intelligence relating to the target, but by the point it gets to them those orders have gone through so many gatekeepers and are likely so redacted and altered and possibly even flat out fabricated, that it might look very convincing for a brainwashed grunt. Whether it's Russian Military Intelligence falsely claiming the school or hospital is being used by the military and there are no civilians present or the CIA leaving out that the Al-Qaeda mastermind in the compound is attending a wedding and there are many children present, the soldier pulling the trigger or programming the missile might not have that context.

I'll be the first to admit that this is being VERY generous towards the Russians here, but the reality is that it is a lot more likely for boots-on-the-ground troops to realise their orders are complete bullshit and war crimes when they reach their target and find a bunch of civilians, that it is for these guys or US drone pilots just looking looking at a map or a drone control monitor and take the intelligence they were given at face value. One could argue it's even more difficult for them when they have a superior officer or spook hovering over their shoulder while executing the order.

That being said, I'm glad they are getting exposed and subjected to this massive doxxing. This type of psyops against those Russian soldiers is an interesting new development in modern warfare. I just think there should be some nuance in the culpability of who is picking the targets and who is firing at them, and that goes for the USAF as well.

We tend to give the US the benefit of the doubt that their targeting of civilians is always accidental collateral damage or due to bad intelligence, and maybe that is a bit naive. Sometimes they might just be a little too trigger happy, despite all the judicial safeguards they put in place prior to targeting.

Calculon wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 11:27 am

laurent wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 5:58 am

Calculon wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 9:34 pm I would think that power stations are legitimate military targets, and in defence of the Russians, I think generally when they’ve hit hospitals, apartment blocks and children’s playgrounds - it’s mostly due to faulty targeting or inaccurate missiles. Not that they seem to care about that, and the Russian state is fascistic in nature and have openly stated their intent on committing genocide in Ukraine, engaged in systematic torture, rape, looting, and the murder of Ukrainian civilians, and the torture and murder of Ukrainian POWs.

Power Stations are civilian target. The military operate without them in all areas. The Russian military and government are operating a blitz against civilians in the hope that they will turn against their government. Seeing that the Ukrainian are winning ground back on the field this is quite unlikely.

They are dual use, the reason why NATO attacked the Serbian power grid during the Kosovo war, and the reason Ukraine has attacked the Belgorod power grid in this war. I don’t think it’s particularly helpful to equate attacks on power stations with the bombing of hospitals and schools which are clearly not legitimate military targets.