NPR

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:42 pm**

I think we just have yo treat it as a freak result against an absurdly good side and try and move on.

Of course this isnt true but facing the truth isnt going to help us either.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:43 pm**

I don't really understand how with a week off that team looks so second best in attitude, fitness, desire, energy, etc etc. Did they spend a week getting stoned?

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:45 pm**

tc27 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:42 pm I think we just have yo treat it as a freak result against an absurdly good side and try and move on.

Of course this isnt true but facing the truth isnt going to help us either.

We lost against Scotland at home. Hammered by France. We visit Dublin next so we get a better idea then.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:46 pm**

PCPhil wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:45 pm
tc27 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:42 pm I think we just have yo treat it as a freak result against an absurdly good side and try and move on.

Of course this isnt true but facing the truth isnt going to help us either.
We lost against Scotland at home. Hammered by France. We visit Dublin next so we get a better idea then.

Sure we lost to Scotland but we were the better side for much of that game, Scotland only took back the lead with a couple of mins to go and we had a final shot in their 22. Not comparable to what’s just happened

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:48 pm**

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:44 pm
Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:16 pm
EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:14 pm I am often critical of Dupont as in think he is overrated. Not this championship as he has been consistently very very good
You really are in LaLa land if you think Dupont is overrated.
We discussed this before and we agreed I was right. It's good to see he has listened to me though I will say commentators are still guilty of blowing their load at the slightest hint of him doing anything. I reserve the right to say he is shite again very soon

Actually, I think you have a point if the commentators are the benchmark. But we all know they mostly talk sh*t.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:51 pm**

Ollivon with 11 trys in 24 tests I think. Extraordinary record.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:52 pm**

Does Woki strengthen that pack?

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:53 pm**

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:52 pm Does Woki strengthen that pack?

Yes, but we're not allowed to pick him and that's not fair

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:53 pm**

And to top off the domination on the field, Flament’s interview demonstrates he speaks better English than most of our pack (and Farrell)

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:53 pm**

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:53 pm
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:52 pm Does Woki strengthen that pack?
Yes, but we're not allowed to pick him and that's not fair

I like a bit of gallows humour :-)

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:54 pm**

Thinking about it there are some positives that I have listed below.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:55 pm**

pjm1 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:53 pm And to top off the domination on the field, Flament’s interview demonstrates he speaks better English than most of our pack (and Farrell)

He was, in the vernacular, awesome today

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:55 pm**

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:37 pm
petej wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:26 pm
Oxbow wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:25 pm

Dombrandt has looked ponderous all game.
to be fair he is playing in the backs as we are missing a back.
He did awfully there but he also carried the most of anyone in the pack and made the most tackles of anyone on the pitch - fair to say he was knackered at that point regardless of how poorly he'd played

Absolute horror show from England, right from the start it was an absolute disaster. Just across the board appalling. One of the most humiliating results and doubly painful as I'd believed our pack was heading in the right direction. An absolute shitshow of errors, attitude, tactics, discipline, defence - you name it we fucked it for the full 80.

Made the u20s last night look good.

Not sure where England go from here, the guys in charge have no real experience to fall back on and our supposed areas of strength were brutally exposed. Just so bad that your choice is ignore it and pretend it didn't happen, or make sweeping changes in all areas. There's no hiding from just how bad that was in all areas.

I thought the more experienced players and leaders in the team went missing. There are a lot of recent changes in that team while France are a settled team.

It is a superb France side looking to peak at the world cup with a critical player back (Danty was my MOTM) while we are starting an overdue rebuild.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:56 pm**

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:52 pm Does Woki strengthen that pack?

That's a tough one if he's on top of his game. Woki is really a flanker. On form, he provides a fantastic lineout option: the one thing that wasn't so great today. You have to have one lump which is Willemse and Tao so Woki is competing with Flament. On form, Woki is barely worth his place for Racing whereas Flament has simply got better every game he has played. So, at the moment, no.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:00 pm**

Bothwicks nose has been pre-sold for a high hazard area lighthouse.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:03 pm**

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:53 pm
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:53 pm
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:52 pm Does Woki strengthen that pack?
Yes, but we're not allowed to pick him and that's not fair

I like a bit of gallows humour :-)

The classic fallback option for an England fan but it's a bit hard to pull off effectively when you genuinely thought this was near to the best team we could put out and had a real chance of giving France a proper battle...

Makes next week much easier though. Frankly if they don't beat us by 50, the Irish should retire from rugby en masse in shame.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:07 pm**

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:03 pm
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:53 pm
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:53 pm

Yes, but we're not allowed to pick him and that's not fair

I like a bit of gallows humour :-)
The classic fallback option for an England fan but it's a bit hard to pull off effectively when you genuinely thought this was near to the best team we could put out and had a real chance of giving France a proper battle...

Makes next week much easier though. Frankly if they don't beat us by 50, the Irish should retire from rugby en masse in shame.

Especially when they are smarting from a heavy defeat at Murrayfield.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:09 pm**

Eng were utterly slaughtered at the breakdown so they should be terrified of playing Ireland. Forget everything else, that has to improve.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:11 pm**

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:09 pm Eng were utterly slaughtered at the breakdown so they should be terrified of playing Ireland. Forget everything else, that has to improve.

An area we'd made significant strides in as well.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:12 pm**

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:09 pm Eng were utterly slaughtered at the breakdown so they should be terrified of playing Ireland. Forget everything else, that has to improve.

Thanks Jake - good to have your insight

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:16 pm**

PCPhil wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:24 pm We’re a rabble. Official.

Come in take a seat.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:16 pm**

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:12 pm
Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:09 pm Eng were utterly slaughtered at the breakdown so they should be terrified of playing Ireland. Forget everything else, that has to improve.
Thanks Jake - good to have your insight

I'm sure he'll be far less reserved in his opinion of that showing than I.

As an aside, WTF has happened to Itoje? From world beater to journeyman in such a short space of time.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:23 pm**

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:16 pm
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:12 pm
Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:09 pm Eng were utterly slaughtered at the breakdown so they should be terrified of playing Ireland. Forget everything else, that has to improve.
Thanks Jake - good to have your insight

I'm sure he'll be far less reserved in his opinion of that showing than I.

As an aside, WTF has happened to Itoje? From world beater to journeyman in such a short space of time.

Apparently he's had some previously undiagnosed health issue. I thought he had a decent game under the circumstances.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:26 pm**

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:23 pm
Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:16 pm
JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:12 pm

Thanks Jake - good to have your insight

I'm sure he'll be far less reserved in his opinion of that showing than I.

As an aside, WTF has happened to Itoje? From world beater to journeyman in such a short space of time.
Apparently he's had some previously undiagnosed health issue. I thought he had a decent game under the circumstances.

Whooping cough?

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:29 pm**

Itoje at least disrupted French ball a few times. Slim pickings but immediately puts him in the top 10% of English performers on the day.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:36 pm**

Marcus Smith reminds me of a guy I coached for the last few years. Brilliant creativity, an eye for solutions no-one else sees. Against passive defenses, he looks every inch the proper rugby player. Put some pressure on him, and all of a sudden it's noticeable how slow his thinking is and that all he can do if not given time is shovel it out to the next guy. I shifted him to 15 from 10 as a solution, where he did brilliantly because he rarely ran out of time.

Not saying Smith should move to 15, but currently he simply doesn't have what it takes to compete with the pressure exerted by the best international teams to be the England 10.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:39 pm**

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:29 pm Itoje at least disrupted French ball a few times. Slim pickings but immediately puts him in the top 10% of English performers on the day.

Sinckler’s 3 penalties slowed down the French pack a bit too.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:41 pm**

Not having any of that. No 10 looks particularly good when their pack is collectively skullfucked like that and yet he was a rare source of bright moments today. Plenty of occasions where he got ball on the back foot and put a forward back onto the front foot with his footwork and pass selection. There's only so much a 10 can do when the forwards can't/won't support the breakdown adequately and those outside him keep dropping or knocking the ball on in contact.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:41 pm**

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:36 pm Marcus Smith reminds me of a guy I coached for the last few years. Brilliant creativity, an eye for solutions no-one else sees. Against passive defenses, he looks every inch the proper rugby player. Put some pressure on him, and all of a sudden it's noticeable how slow his thinking is and that all he can do if not given time is shovel it out to the next guy. I shifted him to 15 from 10 as a solution, where he did brilliantly because he rarely ran out of time.

Not saying Smith should move to 15, but currently he simply doesn't have what it takes to compete with the pressure exerted by the best international teams to be the England 10.

Even Carter could not have made anything of playing behind a pack so utterly dominated. Not like Smith had a Dupont to ease the pressure either.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:55 pm**

We have the very first World Cup game against those freaks. Shite !!!

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:02 pm**

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:55 pm
pjm1 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:53 pm And to top off the domination on the field, Flament’s interview demonstrates he speaks better English than most of our pack (and Farrell)

He was, in the vernacular, awesome today

Woki may make the world cup squad, but he will never put his hand on that nber 4 jersey if Flament is fit.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:05 pm**

As I am following bored convention and don’t want to invade/comment on England Rugby thread; can the bellend that posted there after Italy game ‘’ be interesting to see how we go against the big teams’ just update us on his thoughts?

England are miles away from big 4 down with Aus, Scot, Argie and wales in div 2 but there is a proportion of their fan base that refuses to accept that…

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:05 pm**

The good.

Despite the heavy defeat I thought Steward went from a very good player to a really excellent player tonight

The bad…

So many of those England players that we are told are excellent were garbage. Smith was shite, both 9’s the same. Was Watson playing - I have been a big fan in the past.

Dombrant , who loads seem to rate has been rubbish all 6N and again tonight. Itoje has lost it.

What really annoys me is that you have 2 potentially incredibly destructive and very good props but they spend most of the week talking about how they have tamed their aggression and are much nicer people. Fucking props!

Summed up on about 75 minutes when England were about 40 down and won a penalty in the French 22 and everyone was shouting and backslapping… ffs.

Anyway, I thought this lot were a rabble for a while and so they are.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:06 pm**

TheFrog wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:02 pm
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:55 pm
pjm1 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:53 pm And to top off the domination on the field, Flament’s interview demonstrates he speaks better English than most of our pack (and Farrell)

He was, in the vernacular, awesome today
Woki may make the world cup squad, but he will never put his hand on that nber 4 jersey if Flament is fit.

Woki is one of a few forwards from the periphery who I've seen play superbly at times, Chat is another, France have good depth at the moment.

I've been ranting on elsewhere about Danty for weeks, I'm not saying he was the difference today, but he does give France a lot of penetration in midfield and his defence is really good, along with is work at the breakdown.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:06 pm**

As an aside, and unfortunately agreeing with Torq, if France had a decent 10 that would have been 60+

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:06 pm**

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:41 pm Not having any of that. No 10 looks particularly good when their pack is collectively skullfucked like that and yet he was a rare source of bright moments today. Plenty of occasions where he got ball on the back foot and put a forward back onto the front foot with his footwork and pass selection. There's only so much a 10 can do when the forwards can't/won't support the breakdown adequately and those outside him keep dropping or knocking the ball on in contact.

Couple flashes of brilliance but that was it. His kicking in particular was terrible.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:07 pm**

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:06 pm
TheFrog wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:02 pm
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:55 pm

He was, in the vernacular, awesome today
Woki may make the world cup squad, but he will never put his hand on that nber 4 jersey if Flament is fit.

Woki is one of a few forwards from the periphery who I've seen play superbly at times, Chat is another, France have good depth at the moment.

I've been ranting on elsewhere about Danty for weeks, I'm not saying he was the difference today, but he does give France a lot of penetration in midfield and his defence is really good, along with is work at the breakdown.

You have been banging on about Danty, and he was absolutely superb today

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:07 pm**

Deveron Boy wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:05 pm As I am following bored convention and don’t want to invade/comment on England Rugby thread; can the bellend that posted there after Italy game ‘’ be interesting to see how we go against the big teams’ just update us on his thoughts? England are miles away from big 4 down with Aus, Scot, Argie and wales in div 2 but there is a proportion of their fan base that refuses to accept that…

Ireland and France are quite clearly the big teams in this competition tbf.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:08 pm**

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:41 pm Not having any of that. No 10 looks particularly good when their pack is collectively skullfucked like that and yet he was a rare source of bright moments today. Plenty of occasions where he got ball on the back foot and put a forward back onto the front foot with his footwork and pass selection. There's only so much a 10 can do when the forwards can't/won't support the breakdown adequately and those outside him keep dropping or knocking the ball on in contact.

Sorry, no, that’s mad. He was pretty awful

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:10 pm**

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:06 pm
TheFrog wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:02 pm
Tichtheid wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:55 pm

He was, in the vernacular, awesome today
Woki may make the world cup squad, but he will never put his hand on that nber 4 jersey if Flament is fit.

Woki is one of a few forwards from the periphery who I've seen play superbly at times, Chat is another, France have good depth at the moment.

I've been ranting on elsewhere about Danty for weeks, I'm not saying he was the difference today, but he does give France a lot of penetration in midfield and his defence is really good, along with is work at the breakdown.

Danty was instrumental in giving France the momentum today. Then, once they has their tails up, they were on a roll.

The starting front row was excellent.
Flament looked world class.
The backrow was outstanding (but we need Cross to wear another helmet than Aldritt because I kept getting confused)
Dupont had his best game of the tournament
Danty was the rock on which we built our early momentum
Fickou was outstanding
Ramos had his first game showing his true potential at international level

NPR

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