The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[Biffer]

Endless chat on the Lions and the potential Scottish contingent. We all know the Scots in the picture, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there is one nailed-on (a back) that doesn’t get selected and one (probably a forward) we’re not expecting.

Darcy might be one be who doesn’t make it. He’s tops just about every measure over the last couple of years but for some reason doesn’t seem to get recognition outside of Scotland

I've never been expecting him to. If Farrell takes a smaller winger it'll be Hansen. But I don't think he will. I'm guessing hell use injury as an excuse not to take one of Jones, Tuipolotou or Kinghorn. And Fagerson the younger might have a shot with Doris injured.

[Slick]

Endless chat on the Lions and the potential Scottish contingent. We all know the Scots in the picture, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there is one nailed-on (a back) that doesn’t get selected and one (probably a forward) we’re not expecting.

Darcy might be one be who doesn’t make it. He’s tops just about every measure over the last couple of years but for some reason doesn’t seem to get recognition outside of Scotland

I've never been expecting him to. If Farrell takes a smaller winger it'll be Hansen. But I don't think he will. I'm guessing hell use injury as an excuse not to take one of Jones, Tuipolotou or Kinghorn. And Fagerson the younger might have a shot with Doris injured.

I hadn’t rather really to be honest but a lot seem to think he’s nailed on. I didn’t start getting on the bandwagon until I saw his stats posted the other day relative to the other wingers and he was way out ahead .

I’ll be outraged now

[Tichtheid]

Graham has one potential weakness and it’s physics. He does get bumped by huge players but then so does everyone else, including huge players themselves.

I really hope Darcy makes the cut, he’s Harry Houdini in a rugby shirt.

[Yr Alban]

Endless chat on the Lions and the potential Scottish contingent. We all know the Scots in the picture, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there is one nailed-on (a back) that doesn’t get selected and one (probably a forward) we’re not expecting.

Darcy might be one be who doesn’t make it. He’s tops just about every measure over the last couple of years but for some reason doesn’t seem to get recognition outside of Scotland

I agree - I think he will get overlooked, for a player who is half as good. I hope I’m wrong.

As I said on the Lions thread, I expect 6 minimum: Fagerson Snr, Russell, Tuipulotu, Jones, Van der Merwe, Kinghorn.

Thing is, all of those players are in the conversation to start the Tests. It was the same last time round - all of the Scots who went were in contention, and I think only one didn’t get Test minutes. Scotland never seem to get any players selected in the ‘probably not a Test player unless he makes a huge case on the tour’ category. Not any more, at any rate. Someone mentioned before that Ritchie would have made a perfect dirt tracker captain in the old days.

[Yr Alban]

Graham has one potential weakness and it’s physics. He does get bumped by huge players but then so does everyone else, including huge players themselves.

I really hope Darcy makes the cut, he’s Harry Houdini in a rugby shirt.

Certainly no more than Shane Williams. And Darcy is similarly elusive. One thing about Darcy is that he is incredible at tackling players far bigger than him.

[dpedin]

Graham has one potential weakness and it’s physics. He does get bumped by huge players but then so does everyone else, including huge players themselves.

I really hope Darcy makes the cut, he’s Harry Houdini in a rugby shirt.

Certainly no more than Shane Williams. And Darcy is similarly elusive. One thing about Darcy is that he is incredible at tackling players far bigger than him.

Darcy is a game winner, he can create space out of nowhere and score impossible tries. He is a brave and effective tackler. His stats for Edinburgh and Scotland suggest he is more than good enough for the Lions. SA seem to think Kolbe and Arendse are good enough to win a RWC?

[KingBlairhorn]

I am actually on the fence about Darcy. In terms of his skillset and ability as a player I have absolutely no doubt he is more than good enough, both in attack (obviously) and also defence. The one thing that would give me pause about selecting him is his robustness. His injury record is pretty long and the tour is pretty gruelling. I am not sure he would manage 4 or 5 games over the course of a month without breaking down.

The counter argument to that is if he breaks down you call up a replacement, but when you have other players who you think can have a big impact who are more robust, maybe you go for the cohesion selection.

[TartanBear]

Endless chat on the Lions and the potential Scottish contingent. We all know the Scots in the picture, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there is one nailed-on (a back) that doesn’t get selected and one (probably a forward) we’re not expecting.

Darcy might be one be who doesn’t make it. He’s tops just about every measure over the last couple of years but for some reason doesn’t seem to get recognition outside of Scotland

I agree - I think he will get overlooked, for a player who is half as good. I hope I’m wrong.

As I said on the Lions thread, I expect 6 minimum: Fagerson Snr, Russell, Tuipulotu, Jones, Van der Merwe, Kinghorn.

Thing is, all of those players are in the conversation to start the Tests. It was the same last time round - all of the Scots who went were in contention, and I think only one didn’t get Test minutes. Scotland never seem to get any players selected in the ‘probably not a Test player unless he makes a huge case on the tour’ category. Not any more, at any rate. Someone mentioned before that Ritchie would have made a perfect dirt tracker captain in the old days.

Could be Duhan who misses out; close between Ritchie and Cummings for the surprise. If it’s a larger squad, I wouldn’t be surprised if JD is making a strong case for the latter. Cummings has played in the BR if I recall correctly.

[Jock42]

Bbc rugby pod suggested up to 42 players

[Yr Alban]

Darcy might be one be who doesn’t make it. He’s tops just about every measure over the last couple of years but for some reason doesn’t seem to get recognition outside of Scotland

I agree - I think he will get overlooked, for a player who is half as good. I hope I’m wrong.

As I said on the Lions thread, I expect 6 minimum: Fagerson Snr, Russell, Tuipulotu, Jones, Van der Merwe, Kinghorn.

Thing is, all of those players are in the conversation to start the Tests. It was the same last time round - all of the Scots who went were in contention, and I think only one didn’t get Test minutes. Scotland never seem to get any players selected in the ‘probably not a Test player unless he makes a huge case on the tour’ category. Not any more, at any rate. Someone mentioned before that Ritchie would have made a perfect dirt tracker captain in the old days.

Could be Duhan who misses out; close between Ritchie and Cummings for the surprise. If it’s a larger squad, I wouldn’t be surprised if JD is making a strong case for the latter. Cummings has played in the BR if I recall correctly.

Duhan is an X-factor player. He has something others don’t. If he doesn’t get selected, it’s because there are doubts over whether he will be fit. IMHO of course.

[KingBlairhorn]

Cummings in, good start.

[KingBlairhorn]

Zandbags in too, good stuff.

[KingBlairhorn]

Schooooooooooooooooo

[Slick]

Delighted for Cummings, gutted for Ritchie

[KingBlairhorn]

This is going more or less as we all thought it would tbh. The bankers all seem to be in.

[Jock42]

Gutted for Graham and Ritchie

[clydecloggie]

Gutted for Graham and Ritchie

Hansen over Graham is an interesting choice.

White the victim of needing a token Welsh.

[KingBlairhorn]

Gutted for Graham and Ritchie

Hansen over Graham is an interesting choice.

White the victim of needing a token Welsh.

Elliott Daly is the one that raised my eyebrows...

[Jock42]

Gutted for Graham and Ritchie

Hansen over Graham is an interesting choice.

White the victim of needing a token Welsh.

Tom English made a good point about the French based players. Kinghorn is a must, the others are probably needing the early games to earn a spot.

[I like neeps]

Gutted for Graham and Ritchie

Hansen over Graham is an interesting choice.

White the victim of needing a token Welsh.

I guess we just haven't seen enough of Graham lately.

Pollock over every Scottish backrow eh...

[Wylie Coyote]

Gutted for Darcy, just a better player all around than Hansen. I also think Jordan would've been an excellent utility player and White was unlucky due to playing in France. Ritchie hard done by too.

I am disappointed with 8 players. Most squads beforehand I saw had 10 or more Scots in them, but I get the sense that performances versus Ireland played an outsized role in selection, and we've not turned up for those matches in years. I was hoping that recent matches versus the Lions actual opponents would've meant something...

[sockwithaticket]

Gutted for Graham and Ritchie

Hansen over Graham is an interesting choice.

White the victim of needing a token Welsh.

Elliott Daly is the one that raised my eyebrows...

Daly at least covers all outside back positions. Whether we like it or not, coaches do value that versatility in squads.

[Yr Alban]

Gutted for Graham and Ritchie

Hansen over Graham is an interesting choice.

White the victim of needing a token Welsh.

I guess we just haven't seen enough of Graham lately.

Pollock over every Scottish backrow eh...

Ritchie shunted down the ranking by both a token Wales player and by the Next Big Thing. The Lions always take the Next Big Thing - whatever young player is making headlines. Pollock was nailed on, as Rees-Zammit was last time. Arguably Hogg was the beneficiary in 2013, though that squad had a few young bolters and you could have argued for George North, or even Owen Farrell

[Yr Alban]

Gutted for Darcy, just a better player all around than Hansen. I also think Jordan would've been an excellent utility player and White was unlucky due to playing in France. Ritchie hard done by too.

I am disappointed with 8 players. Most squads beforehand I saw had 10 or more Scots in them, but I get the sense that performances versus Ireland played an outsized role in selection, and we've not turned up for those matches in years. I was hoping that recent matches versus the Lions actual opponents would've meant something...

We had 6 who were nailed on, and they are all going, even though 4 of the 6 are coming back from injury. I guess one marginal (Schoeman) got in, and two (Ritchie, Graham) didn’t. One real surprise (Cummings). I’m not sure there’s anyone else I would have said, hand on heart, had a realistic chance. Matt Fagerson, Gilchrist, White and maybe Jordan will have been part of the conversation, but I would have been just as surprised as I was with Cummings.

Scotland very rarely get ‘squad’ players in a Lions selection, as I said on the other thread. Even though Cummings has slightly weakened my position.

[I like neeps]

Hansen over Graham is an interesting choice.

White the victim of needing a token Welsh.

I guess we just haven't seen enough of Graham lately.

Pollock over every Scottish backrow eh...

Ritchie shunted down the ranking by both a token Wales player and by the Next Big Thing. The Lions always take the Next Big Thing - whatever young player is making headlines. Pollock was nailed on, as Rees-Zammit was last time. Arguably Hogg was the beneficiary in 2013, though that squad had a few young bolters and you could have argued for George North, or even Owen Farrell

It's not a balanced back row at all and the lineout could be a real issue. A lot of 7s/small 8s. I think Dempsey is the unlucky one maybe.

[Yr Alban]

Dempsey will really have wanted a crack at the Aussies, I’m sure. I reckon he still bears a grudge at them for discarding him.

[Big D]

Hansen over Graham is an interesting choice.

White the victim of needing a token Welsh.

I guess we just haven't seen enough of Graham lately.

Pollock over every Scottish backrow eh...

Ritchie shunted down the ranking by both a token Wales player and by the Next Big Thing. The Lions always take the Next Big Thing - whatever young player is making headlines. Pollock was nailed on, as Rees-Zammit was last time. Arguably Hogg was the beneficiary in 2013, though that squad had a few young bolters and you could have argued for George North, or even Owen Farrell

Pollock deserves to go. He's playing a leading role in the biggest club matches.

Graham and Ritchie unlucky, Cummings lucky.

Suspect White and Jordan will be on the shortlist for replacements.

[Big D]

I guess we just haven't seen enough of Graham lately.

Pollock over every Scottish backrow eh...

Ritchie shunted down the ranking by both a token Wales player and by the Next Big Thing. The Lions always take the Next Big Thing - whatever young player is making headlines. Pollock was nailed on, as Rees-Zammit was last time. Arguably Hogg was the beneficiary in 2013, though that squad had a few young bolters and you could have argued for George North, or even Owen Farrell

It's not a balanced back row at all and the lineout could be a real issue. A lot of 7s/small 8s. I think Dempsey is the unlucky one maybe.

Wouldn't be a surprise to see a second row play 6. Some athletic players in there.

[Big D]

Injuries and loss of from has been an issue for a few too.

[Dogbert]

Graham and Ritchie paying the price of playing for Edinburgh.

Both will be in their 30's by the time of the next BIL tour

Both deserve to be tourists

[Simian]

I wasn’t getting excited about it. As you say, the last one didn’t turn out all that well

seems a bit odd to refer to a guy who played more than fifty times for munster (including appearing in finals) as a fringe player for them. Or were you not referring to Healy?

It's wild that it's so difficult to think of a back who moved to Edinburgh from another side and actually improved.

My recollection, and I may be wrong, was that he was third choice behind Crowley and Carbery when he transferred to Edinburgh.

My recollection was that he was rarely out the match day squad in his last season at Munster and started some big games for them that season too(like the SF win in Dublin). Maybe that was the season before he left.

But my point was more that it seemed weird (and unfair on Healy) to describe a guy who played more than fifty times for Munster as a fringe player.

[Simian]

Graham and Ritchie paying the price of playing for Edinburgh.

Both will be in their 30's by the time of the next BIL tour

Both deserve to be tourists

I’m not sure who I’d drop to create a spot for JR, tbh. Graham is desperately unlucky tho.

Delighted for all those going tho.

[Yr Alban]

Graham and Ritchie paying the price of playing for Edinburgh.

Both will be in their 30's by the time of the next BIL tour

Both deserve to be tourists

I’m not sure who I’d drop to create a spot for JR, tbh. Graham is desperately unlucky tho.

Delighted for all those going tho.

That’s always the problem with a Lions selection though. The refrain is always ‘who would you leave out to take player X?’ despite the fact that had player X been picked, you could be having the exact same discussion about whoever got left out instead. Remember having these discussions a few tours ago, when it was pretty obvious that Scotland players who should have been picked were losing out to others because they were Scotland players. It’s always about marginal calls, it’s just noticeable when your guys lose out every time. I expect Welsh fans are feeling a bit like that just now.

Having said that, Graham in particular I’d have taken over either Hansen or Daly.

[Biffer]

Graham and Ritchie paying the price of playing for Edinburgh.

Both will be in their 30's by the time of the next BIL tour

Both deserve to be tourists

I’m not sure who I’d drop to create a spot for JR, tbh. Graham is desperately unlucky tho.

Delighted for all those going tho.

That’s always the problem with a Lions selection though. The refrain is always ‘who would you leave out to take player X?’ despite the fact that had player X been picked, you could be having the exact same discussion about whoever got left out instead. Remember having these discussions a few tours ago, when it was pretty obvious that Scotland players who should have been picked were losing out to others because they were Scotland players. It’s always about marginal calls, it’s just noticeable when your guys lose out every time. I expect Welsh fans are feeling a bit like that just now.

Having said that, Graham in particular I’d have taken over either Hansen or Daly.

Graham over Hansen, Jordan over Daly.

[Simian]

Graham and Ritchie paying the price of playing for Edinburgh.

Both will be in their 30's by the time of the next BIL tour

Both deserve to be tourists

I’m not sure who I’d drop to create a spot for JR, tbh. Graham is desperately unlucky tho.

Delighted for all those going tho.

That’s always the problem with a Lions selection though. The refrain is always ‘who would you leave out to take player X?’ despite the fact that had player X been picked, you could be having the exact same discussion about whoever got left out instead. Remember having these discussions a few tours ago, when it was pretty obvious that Scotland players who should have been picked were losing out to others because they were Scotland players. It’s always about marginal calls, it’s just noticeable when your guys lose out every time. I expect Welsh fans are feeling a bit like that just now.

Having said that, Graham in particular I’d have taken over either Hansen or Daly.

Farrell does like the option of a wing who can slot in and play like a second playmaker (like their set play where Hansen sits in the boot and kicks cross field), so I can kinda see why he’s gone for Hansen. Daly is a bit more of a surprise to me, but (as someone else said) coaches do love a jack of all trades type. Plus he is another kicking option. It must have been a tight call to leave Graham out.

I get what you’re saying about justifying replacing a guy picked. Just my opinion, obvs, but there are guys there (and not there) I’d pick ahead of JR and not really any I’d pick JR ahead of.

(ETA: I’m with biffer on Jordan over Daly!)

[Big D]

Jordan and Daly are not equivalent picks. Between them they cover the whole backline but only 15 is a common position.

I can see the merits in Daly even if i disagree with it. Experienced Lion in a group of backs with little Lions experience, happy to slot in at 11 and 13-15 in a midweek game and bash on. There are only really two 13s in the squad so wouldn't be a shock to see Daly slot in there. Jordan has his merits but I doubt it was him or Daly when it came to the crunch.

Graham is an interesting one. I'd have taken him but can see how a really critical eye would see him miss out for a player the coaches trust and can play as a second ball handler.

Cummings has probably had the equivalent benefit that Graham didn't get.

It's hard on some guys but that's pro rugby.

[Big D]

Finn Russell - three time Lion!

[Slick]

The Instagram clips from Glasgow showing when they got their names announced is great, particularly Cummings

[Big D]

The Instagram clips from Glasgow showing when they got their names announced is great, particularly Cummings

For all some fans have lost interest, it is massive for players.

[I like neeps]

Jordan and Daly are not equivalent picks. Between them they cover the whole backline but only 15 is a common position.

I can see the merits in Daly even if i disagree with it. Experienced Lion in a group of backs with little Lions experience, happy to slot in at 11 and 13-15 in a midweek game and bash on. There are only really two 13s in the squad so wouldn't be a shock to see Daly slot in there. Jordan has his merits but I doubt it was him or Daly when it came to the crunch.

Graham is an interesting one. I'd have taken him but can see how a really critical eye would see him miss out for a player the coaches trust and can play as a second ball handler.

Cummings has probably had the equivalent benefit that Graham didn't get.

It's hard on some guys but that's pro rugby.

Daly has also been on two tours and I reckon is considered a "good tourist" which comes into it as performance wise there's better options.