What's going on in Ukraine?

[Uncle fester]

C4 Reporting that one of the Orc missiles has landed in Poland, & killed two people.

NATO will have to respond strongly if this is true

Be a handy time to enforce a no fly zone over Ukraine.

[fishfoodie]

C4 Reporting that one of the Orc missiles has landed in Poland, & killed two people.

NATO will have to respond strongly if this is true

Hopefully, it'll be proven to have been knocked off course by air defences or some shit like that. Otherwise, it doesn't end well...

I don't think the Poles will give a shit why it hit their territory, & the dead certainly won't !

I think NATO should ask Ukraine for permission to site Air Defence systems inside their territory, to defend NATO.... and then they should set them up as close as practical to Ukraines Eastern border (to give the systems the best chance of success natch).

Then I'd arrange for some more careless smokers in those Orc/Iranian factories & warehouses etc, that are supplying these weapons.

[TB63]

[tabascoboy]

Quite a bit of speculation at the moment as to what rocket the debris has come from, no definite matches but it's early days. Possible it's a UA S-300 air defence overshoot but it's not consistent with a crater that was left unless it malfunctioned.

In any case if Russia weren't being arseholes by launching mass strikes this wouldn't have happened ( unless you believe tinfoil hat conspiracy tweets... )

[Hellraiser]

[geordie_6]

Haven't the Russians been using some of the S-300 systems as surface to surface weapons?

[laurent]

Haven't the Russians been using some of the S-300 systems as surface to surface weapons?

Yes but it shouldn't have the range to hit Poland

[Line6 HXFX]

I often wonder how better off Wales would have been under Russian/ Soviet control over the last say 100 years.

All those former Soviet eastern block countries seem to be doing great inside the E.U, having been invested in etc, yet British Unionists and English supremacists insist Wales (having been run into the ground from Westminster, forever) will (according to them) not be able to make it.

Not even the EU could help us (like it could those former Soviet Eastern Block nations).

So maybe being under Russian Control is awesome? Unlike westminster, you have a future outside. They invest in you, build you up.
Don't extract every last resource, human natural and mineral and send you all their oddballs and pensioners so you can never be free of them.

You are definately fucked forever in the U.K. Union, and have to stay in it forever....and that is just according to its supporters, British Unionists and English supremacist types.

[Biffer]

I often wonder how better off Wales would have been under Russian/ Soviet control over the last say 100 years.

All those former Soviet eastern block countries seem to be doing great inside the E.U, having been invested in etc, yet British Unionists and English supremacists insist Wales (having been run from Westminster forever) will not be able to make it.

Not even the EU could help us (like it could those former Soviet Eastern Block nations).

So maybe being under Russian Control is awesome? Unlike westminster, you have a future outside. They invest in you, build you up.
Don't extract every last resource, human natural and mineral and send you all their oddballs and pensioners so you can never be free of them.

You are definately fucked forever in the U.K. Union, and have to stay in it forever....and that is just according to its supporters, British Unionists and English supremacist types.

What the fuck is wrong with you

[ASMO]

I often wonder how better off Wales would have been under Russian/ Soviet control over the last say 100 years.

All those former Soviet eastern block countries seem to be doing great inside the E.U, having been invested in etc, yet British Unionists and English supremacists insist Wales (having been run into the ground from Westminster, forever) will (according to them) not be able to make it.

Not even the EU could help us (like it could those former Soviet Eastern Block nations).

So maybe being under Russian Control is awesome? Unlike westminster, you have a future outside. They invest in you, build you up.
Don't extract every last resource, human natural and mineral and send you all their oddballs and pensioners so you can never be free of them.

You are definately fucked forever in the U.K. Union, and have to stay in it forever....and that is just according to its supporters, British Unionists and English supremacist types.

How many of those ex Soviet Bloc countries have you actually visited?, i can assure you i have visited many, and they are far from the utopia you seem to think they are, Infrastructure, facilities are still miles behind their western counterparts.

[inactionman]

I often wonder how better off Wales would have been under Russian/ Soviet control over the last say 100 years.

All those former Soviet eastern block countries seem to be doing great inside the E.U, having been invested in etc, yet British Unionists and English supremacists insist Wales (having been run into the ground from Westminster, forever) will (according to them) not be able to make it.

Not even the EU could help us (like it could those former Soviet Eastern Block nations).

So maybe being under Russian Control is awesome? Unlike westminster, you have a future outside. They invest in you, build you up.
Don't extract every last resource, human natural and mineral and send you all their oddballs and pensioners so you can never be free of them.

You are definately fucked forever in the U.K. Union, and have to stay in it forever....and that is just according to its supporters, British Unionists and English supremacist types.

How many of those ex Soviet Bloc countries have you actually visited?, i can assure you i have visited many, and they are far from the utopia you seem to think they are, Infrastructure, facilities are still miles behind their western counterparts.

There's a joke about Newport in there somewhere.

[tabascoboy]

[tabascoboy]

Oddly, none of the usual barrage of missiles from RU so far this evening unlike the few

[GogLais]

I often wonder how better off Wales would have been under Russian/ Soviet control over the last say 100 years.

All those former Soviet eastern block countries seem to be doing great inside the E.U, having been invested in etc, yet British Unionists and English supremacists insist Wales (having been run into the ground from Westminster, forever) will (according to them) not be able to make it.

Not even the EU could help us (like it could those former Soviet Eastern Block nations).

So maybe being under Russian Control is awesome? Unlike westminster, you have a future outside. They invest in you, build you up.
Don't extract every last resource, human natural and mineral and send you all their oddballs and pensioners so you can never be free of them.

You are definately fucked forever in the U.K. Union, and have to stay in it forever....and that is just according to its supporters, British Unionists and English supremacist types.

We’d have free oil and gas forever if we let them base their subs in Milford Haven.

[Uncle fester]

My favourite memory of a former Soviet bloc country is the wedding we went to in Poland. It was in an old hunting palace. Directly across the gate from the palace, in the middle of idyllic countryside was a giant tower block of flats. Going in the gate of the palace, we were treated to the sight of an auld lad in y fronts having a good ole scratch on the roadside.

[Guy Smiley]

I often wonder how better off Wales would have been under Russian/ Soviet control over the last say 100 years.

[fishfoodie]

My favourite memory of a former Soviet bloc country is the wedding we went to in Poland. It was in an old hunting palace. Directly across the gate from the palace, in the middle of idyllic countryside was a giant tower block of flats. Going in the gate of the palace, we were treated to the sight of an auld lad in y fronts having a good ole scratch on the roadside.

Yup. The rot is so deep it will take decades but you see progress. I was in some Polish craphole called Elblag and it was mostly decrepit with lots of Soviet monuments in the cemeteries but just stuck in the 70's. You know that vibe- all brown carpets and chipped paint iron framed beds. However with EU money huge motorways were being built to it from Gdansk and you could see improvemts but as noted initially the rot after Soviet rule is extremely deep. Imagine cleaning up Russia

"decades", Ha !, try a century !!

The Communism experiment didn't just fail to keep up, it set about digging the hole deeper than ever before !

The only reason there aren't dozens of submarine reactors polluting Russia, is the charity, & expertise of the US & EU, putting them in cold storage; but that's small beans compared to ecological, biological, & chemical catastrophes that are scattered across the entire USSR.

How do you un-fuck the disaster that is the Aral Sea ?

If the fucking Orcs had had control of Wales; they'd have strip mined the valleys, & piled the spoil heaps so high, there'd have been twenty Aberfans, & no one in Moscow would have given a fuck.

[Calculon]

The Uzbek government has no plans to ty and restore the Aral, there is far too much money on cotton. Anyway, I lived on the banks of the Amu Darya and the locals have no concept of water conversation. They pump out as much water as they can with no thought of the consequences.TBF, although that area is worse than any part of Wales I've been too, Tashkent is lovely, much nicer than Cardiff. I also imagine somewhere like Lithuania won't compare too badly to Wales.

[tabascoboy]

Well no great surprise with this

MH17: Three guilty as court finds Russia-controlled group downed airliner

A Dutch court has found three men guilty of murder for shooting down a passenger jet over eastern Ukraine in 2014, killing 298 people. The court found that a Russian-made missile supplied from Russia and fired by an armed group under Russian control brought down flight MH17.

The men - two Russians and one Ukrainian - were found guilty in absentia and sentenced to life in jail. A third Russian was acquitted.

The missile attack was one of the most notorious war crimes in Ukraine before allegations of atrocities there became an almost daily reality.

Many of the victims' relatives believe if the world had reacted differently, and taken a tougher stance against Russia eight years ago, the invasion of Ukraine and the geopolitical instability that has followed could have been avoided.

The judges ruled that it was a deliberate action to bring down a plane, even though the three found guilty had intended to shoot down a military not a civilian aircraft.

Igor Girkin, the military leader of the so-called Donetsk People's Republic, was convicted of deploying the missile and seeking Russian help
Sergei Dubinsky was found to have ordered and overseen the transport of the Buk missile launcher
Leonid Kharchenko was found to have overseen the Buk, acting on Dubinsky's instructions.
Oleg Pulatov was the only one of the four accused to have legal representation at the trial. The judges acquitted him, although they found he knew about the missile.

On 17 July 2014, 298 people, including 80 children and 15 crew, boarded Malaysia Airlines flight 17 to Kuala Lumpur at Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport.

The plane was cruising at 33,000 feet over Ukraine. It was the early days of Russia's efforts to control parts of the country. At the time this was a relatively low-level conflict zone, but fighting had recently expanded into the air. In the preceding months a number of military planes had been shot down. In response, Ukraine closed the airspace at lower altitudes - up to 32,000 feet. But planes were still crossing the country.

The Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 was flying 1,000 feet above this restricted airspace.

At 13:20 GMT, it lost contact with air traffic control.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63637625

[Niegs]

I've wondered this seeing videos of soldiers with MANPADS, how do they identify a target? Assuming those cunts just aimed at something coming from the direction of 'the enemy'? But surely there's technology / protocol to identify military vs civilian and friend from foe, even if you've got a shoulder-launched weapon?

[laurent]

I've wondered this seeing videos of soldiers with MANPADS, how do they identify a target? Assuming those cunts just aimed at something coming from the direction of 'the enemy'? But surely there's technology / protocol to identify military vs civilian and friend from foe, even if you've got a shoulder-launched weapon?

The Manpad type do not have the reach to hit civilian aircraft at cruising altitude .

Military aircraft have IFF but ukrainian manpads are so varied I doubt this would work. (Polish French US and English as far as I know) there is 1 incident of Blue on blue that is known

[Biffer]

The Uzbek government has no plans to ty and restore the Aral, there is far too much money on cotton. Anyway, I lived on the banks of the Amu Darya and the locals have no concept of water conversation. They pump out as much water as they can with no thought of the consequences.TBF, although that area is worse than any part of Wales I've been too, Tashkent is lovely, much nicer than Cardiff. I also imagine somewhere like Lithuania won't compare too badly to Wales.

Nicer than Cardiff is not a high bar.

[Niegs]

I've wondered this seeing videos of soldiers with MANPADS, how do they identify a target? Assuming those cunts just aimed at something coming from the direction of 'the enemy'? But surely there's technology / protocol to identify military vs civilian and friend from foe, even if you've got a shoulder-launched weapon?

The Manpad type do not have the reach to hit civilian aircraft at cruising altitude .

Military aircraft have IFF but ukrainian manpads are so varied I doubt this would work. (Polish French US and English as far as I know) there is 1 incident of Blue on blue that is known

Must be tough! I saw one video where Ukrainian troops in a treeline are looking above and the subtitle says "Is that drone one of ours?" I'd be paranoid as fudge in today's combat.

[robmatic]

I've wondered this seeing videos of soldiers with MANPADS, how do they identify a target? Assuming those cunts just aimed at something coming from the direction of 'the enemy'? But surely there's technology / protocol to identify military vs civilian and friend from foe, even if you've got a shoulder-launched weapon?

I'm not an expert, but on one of the MANPAD vids I saw the soldiers were on the radio to command to get approval before they fired. Presumably someone up the line has an idea whether there are any friendly aircraft on missions in the area etc.

[Uncle fester]

My favourite memory of a former Soviet bloc country is the wedding we went to in Poland. It was in an old hunting palace. Directly across the gate from the palace, in the middle of idyllic countryside was a giant tower block of flats. Going in the gate of the palace, we were treated to the sight of an auld lad in y fronts having a good ole scratch on the roadside.

Yup. The rot is so deep it will take decades but you see progress. I was in some Polish craphole called Elblag and it was mostly decrepit with lots of Soviet monuments in the cemeteries but just stuck in the 70's. You know that vibe- all brown carpets and chipped paint iron framed beds. However with EU money huge motorways were being built to it from Gdansk and you could see improvemts but as noted initially the rot after Soviet rule is extremely deep. Imagine cleaning up Russia

"decades", Ha !, try a century !!

The Communism experiment didn't just fail to keep up, it set about digging the hole deeper than ever before !

The only reason there aren't dozens of submarine reactors polluting Russia, is the charity, & expertise of the US & EU, putting them in cold storage; but that's small beans compared to ecological, biological, & chemical catastrophes that are scattered across the entire USSR.

How do you un-fuck the disaster that is the Aral Sea ?

If the fucking Orcs had had control of Wales; they'd have strip mined the valleys, & piled the spoil heaps so high, there'd have been twenty Aberfans, & no one in Moscow would have given a fuck.

Where do you even start with a place like Lake Karachay. An hour there gives you a lethal dose of radiation.

[fishfoodie]

Yup. The rot is so deep it will take decades but you see progress. I was in some Polish craphole called Elblag and it was mostly decrepit with lots of Soviet monuments in the cemeteries but just stuck in the 70's. You know that vibe- all brown carpets and chipped paint iron framed beds. However with EU money huge motorways were being built to it from Gdansk and you could see improvemts but as noted initially the rot after Soviet rule is extremely deep. Imagine cleaning up Russia

"decades", Ha !, try a century !!

The Communism experiment didn't just fail to keep up, it set about digging the hole deeper than ever before !

The only reason there aren't dozens of submarine reactors polluting Russia, is the charity, & expertise of the US & EU, putting them in cold storage; but that's small beans compared to ecological, biological, & chemical catastrophes that are scattered across the entire USSR.

How do you un-fuck the disaster that is the Aral Sea ?

If the fucking Orcs had had control of Wales; they'd have strip mined the valleys, & piled the spoil heaps so high, there'd have been twenty Aberfans, & no one in Moscow would have given a fuck.

Where do you even start with a place like Lake Karachay. An hour there gives you a lethal dose of radiation.

That's a similar toxic scar.

The reason I picked the Aral Sea, was also that the Soviets had, on what used to be an island, one of their main bioweapons poduction & test sites !, Vozrozhdeniya Island, AKA Aralsk-7.

The Americans went there at the end of the Cold War, & cleaned up some of the locations, where the Soviets had dumped tonnes of Anthrax slurry into unsealed pits; but the entire area is still contaminated & one of the most dangerous places on the planet.

With radiation, you can measure it, & stay away from it; with Anthrax, you could be twenty miles away, & just touch a surface after a windy day, & you'll die horribly within a few days.


https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2017 ... he-soviets

[tabascoboy]

---------------------------------------
But not just Russians with stock issues

[Sandstorm]

So not just the Ford Focus that is suffering from the global chip shortage.

[tabascoboy]

[Jock42]

I've wondered this seeing videos of soldiers with MANPADS, how do they identify a target? Assuming those cunts just aimed at something coming from the direction of 'the enemy'? But surely there's technology / protocol to identify military vs civilian and friend from foe, even if you've got a shoulder-launched weapon?

I'm not an expert, but on one of the MANPAD vids I saw the soldiers were on the radio to command to get approval before they fired. Presumably someone up the line has an idea whether there are any friendly aircraft on missions in the area etc.

I was going to post something along these lines. I've not seen any videos showing it but I imagine they've a system in place to try to PID between troops on the ground and ISTAR.

[tabascoboy]

Source and veracity of this is as yet unverified

[Uncle fester]

Source and veracity of this is as yet unverified

Looks like the Russians need to do some pruning of zealots before they surrender.

[tabascoboy]

Mysterious explosion near St Petersburg

[Uncle fester]

Anglo-Saxons at it again?

[tabascoboy]

[tabascoboy]

[TB63]

85,000.....

[Hellraiser]

The Uzbek government has no plans to ty and restore the Aral, there is far too much money on cotton. Anyway, I lived on the banks of the Amu Darya and the locals have no concept of water conversation. They pump out as much water as they can with no thought of the consequences.TBF, although that area is worse than any part of Wales I've been too, Tashkent is lovely, much nicer than Cardiff. I also imagine somewhere like Lithuania won't compare too badly to Wales.

The Kazakhs have been doing restoration work in the north that is finally starting to pay off in rising water levels and increasing fish stocks, but as you say the Uzbek cotton industry is the biggest obstacle.

[tabascoboy]

[Hellraiser]