NPR

Jock42 wrote: Sun Oct 13, 2024 3:08 pm

_Os_ wrote: Sun Oct 13, 2024 9:57 am

_Os_ wrote: Wed Oct 09, 2024 12:32 pm Wales online are reporting these two formats are being considered. I think Wales Online has a reputation for being full of tabloid bullshit? But it does provide something to go on regarding the formats they're looking at.

Two divisions with promotion relegation = that is the get rid of SA and Italy option. Problem is a second division maybe isn't that viable long term. Any team that cannot get out of that division ends up playing weaker sides, not improving, and maybe not getting any support as a result. This is where the Welsh bullshit starts not joining up with reality, if they want a British and Irish league it's one of the better formats, but Welsh sides are the most at risk of being locked into the second division.

Some strange two conference option = Looks a bit Homer Simpson clown car. The option where everyone tries to have their cake and eat it too. SA and Italian sides are kept. English sides link up with the URC. Welsh sides play the English sides without risk of being relegated into irrelevance. Problem is the comp stops making much sense. Super Rugby ended up in a mess by choosing options like this. "Choose the Homer Simpson clown car to grow by a few million dollars", just means going for growth of a few percent which in practice blows it all up.

This talk does look like it's mostly Welsh/English driven, they don't really want the same things though. The Welsh want to play all the English sides, because they think there's more money in it for them, which is possible by setting ticket prices below English clubs and targeting away fans (maybe there would be an agreement on minimum ticket prices? attracting English fans still seems a legitimate expectation). They also think playing English clubs will improve them on the pitch, which there's no evidence for. Some English clubs aren't convinced their model is working anymore, so some of them want to add the stronger Celtic sides which aren't the Welsh sides.

Cannot see how any of this will help them. The fundamental problem in Wales is their sides aren't professional enough, they've fallen behind off the field in management and coaching, it's a not a player quality or lack of interest issue. The fundamental problem in England is below test rugby (really just the 6N and RWC) there's next to no interest and therefore little prospect of more fans/money than already exists regardless of what they do.

The Homer Simpson clown car option could be gaining momentum. Rapport reports on rugby a lot, sometimes it's total bullshit and sometimes it's true. Maybe a bit like WalesOnline.

URC shouldn't be entertaining this. The league is competitive and works. A strong side can struggle to make the top 8, there's not many genuinely weak sides and even they're capable at home on their day. £4m is not worth it, in the context we're talking about it is fuck all. If the URC wants growth a far better option would be working out how to add sides in the Europe/Africa time zone without making the format kak, a rebadged Portugal national side should be top of the list. That isn't going to immediately add £4m, but would show long term thinking which pro rugby has been poor at doing.

Easy to see what will happen with the Homer Simpson clown car. The English that want it will keep pushing for a British and Irish league, they'll become the Aussies of the NH and blame SA for preventing that option, the Aussies cried about SA for years and blamed us for preventing an Aus/NZ comp which would definitely fix all their problems (their problem being that they don't like rugby). Any format change or addition of teams will also have to go through a partner fundamentally opposed to SA's involvement, opposes the current format structure that includes SA, and opposes any of the Celtic sides gaining teams (or even retaining teams in the case of Wales) which would change the power balance in favour of the Celts. There'll be massive arguments over the revenue split, it'll be two separate comps with playoffs at the end, hard to tell where the value is in that. The comp itself will cease to make any sense, you'll watch your side all season only to face sides you've never seen before and aren't part of the comp you've been watching.

In other words a replay of what killed Super Rugby.

SA backs Premiership merger

SA Rugby will support a reported merger between the URC and Premiership, provided the Bulls, Lions, Sharks, and Stormers are guaranteed spots in the competition.

A potential merger between the URC and the Premiership, split into two divisions with promotion and relegation, is reportedly under serious consideration as both competitions explore ways to boost future broadcasting deals.

WalesOnline reports that the new league could bring in an extra £4 million (R91,4 million) in TV revenue. Sky Sports has already shown interest in securing broadcast rights. Private equity firm CVC, which holds a 27% stake in the English Premiership and 28% in the URC, is reportedly involved in the discussions.

According to Sunday newspaper Rapport, South Africa has supported the merger, but it is unlikely to happen before May 2026.

The current proposal suggests South African teams would be placed in a division alongside sides from Ireland, Scotland, and Italy, while teams from England and Wales would form the other division. The top four teams from each division would face off in cross-division knockout matches to determine the league champion.

https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/sa-backs-p ... ip-merger/

I'd not be averse to a B&I league (I don't see the travel to SA as a sustainable long term option) but that seems a ridiculous idea. If the Welsh want to fuck off let them do so but there's no reason for the 2 leagues to play off against each other.

average joe wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2024 7:14 am Imagine a Scotchman calling Johannesburg Joburg or Durban Durbz or Bloemfontein Bloem. Chilli will have a cerebral aneurism.

OomStruisbaai wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 4:37 pm Dont get easier for the Stormers, 2023 champs first up, then 2024 champs.

Biffer wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 6:43 pm

OomStruisbaai wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 4:37 pm Dont get easier for the Stormers, 2023 champs first up, then 2024 champs.

You’ve had Edinburgh and Zebre the last two games, how much easier do you want it?

OomStruisbaai wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 7:15 pm

Biffer wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 6:43 pm

OomStruisbaai wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2024 4:37 pm Dont get easier for the Stormers, 2023 champs first up, then 2024 champs.

You’ve had Edinburgh and Zebre the last two games, how much easier do you want it?

Embra was excellent. Played us in the hockey astro turf.

Sards wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:53 pm Hollywoodbets Sharks vs Glasgow warriors

Ox Nche
Bongi Mbonambi
Vincent Koch
Eben Etzebeth (Captain)
Emile van Heerden
Siya Kolisi
Manu Tshituka
Phepsi Buthelezi
Jaden Hendrikse
Jordan Hendrikse
Makazole Mapimpi
Andre Esterhuizen
Lukhanyo Am
Eduan Keyter
Aphelele Fassi
Replacements

Fez Mbatha
Trevor Nyakane
Ruan Dreyer
Jason Jenkins
James Venter
Grant Williams
Siya Masuku
Jurenzo Julius

fishfoodie wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2024 6:21 pm

I agree that Scotland or Wales can't just replicate Leinsters system, because there isn't the same structure, but they can still learn a lot from it, if they can breaks thru the blazers insistence on doing the same shit that's failed since the dawn of professionalism, & just hoping it turns out different this year .....

The Scots need to work hard to break down the idea that Rugby is a posh boys sport, & the Welsh need to find a way to turn their clubs into the equivalent of Leinsters schools, without letting the village idiots at all levels of Welsh rugby take control & turn it into a pissing contest with the club two valleys over.

I've more faith in the Scots to not fuck it up.

Tichtheid wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2024 6:59 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2024 6:21 pm

I agree that Scotland or Wales can't just replicate Leinsters system, because there isn't the same structure, but they can still learn a lot from it, if they can breaks thru the blazers insistence on doing the same shit that's failed since the dawn of professionalism, & just hoping it turns out different this year .....

The Scots need to work hard to break down the idea that Rugby is a posh boys sport, & the Welsh need to find a way to turn their clubs into the equivalent of Leinsters schools, without letting the village idiots at all levels of Welsh rugby take control & turn it into a pissing contest with the club two valleys over.

I've more faith in the Scots to not fuck it up.

You've more faith in this than I have, then, especially given the history of the last 30 years in Scotland.

The top table at the SRU has recently seen a power struggle that led to the demise of the competition below the pro teams and a strengthening of the clubs below that - there is a view in Scotland that as the clubs "own" the SRU they should be the ones calling the shots and that is where the funding should go.

If called on I could go into some detail as to why we are where we are, but I can't imagine it being of any interest to those outside of Scotland - it's very complicated but there are still those that resent pro rugby and don't see why we just can't go back to those old clubs being at the top of the game and all of us (in reality very few of them) having a fine picnic out the back of the Range Rover on the back pitches at Murrayfield as a curtain raiser for the Five Nations games.

They just don't get that if Glasgow and Edinburgh don't have a good feeder system then the entire sport of rugby dies in Scotland outside of the fee paying schools. We won't have international matches against the top tier as we slip down the rankings and get battered by Italy every year in the 6N in front of a couple of thousand fans, let alone the other sides.

Some of these people claim they are successful businessmen so know what's best

Biffer wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2024 8:12 pm

Tichtheid wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2024 6:59 pm

fishfoodie wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2024 6:21 pm

I agree that Scotland or Wales can't just replicate Leinsters system, because there isn't the same structure, but they can still learn a lot from it, if they can breaks thru the blazers insistence on doing the same shit that's failed since the dawn of professionalism, & just hoping it turns out different this year .....

The Scots need to work hard to break down the idea that Rugby is a posh boys sport, & the Welsh need to find a way to turn their clubs into the equivalent of Leinsters schools, without letting the village idiots at all levels of Welsh rugby take control & turn it into a pissing contest with the club two valleys over.

I've more faith in the Scots to not fuck it up.

You've more faith in this than I have, then, especially given the history of the last 30 years in Scotland.

The top table at the SRU has recently seen a power struggle that led to the demise of the competition below the pro teams and a strengthening of the clubs below that - there is a view in Scotland that as the clubs "own" the SRU they should be the ones calling the shots and that is where the funding should go.

If called on I could go into some detail as to why we are where we are, but I can't imagine it being of any interest to those outside of Scotland - it's very complicated but there are still those that resent pro rugby and don't see why we just can't go back to those old clubs being at the top of the game and all of us (in reality very few of them) having a fine picnic out the back of the Range Rover on the back pitches at Murrayfield as a curtain raiser for the Five Nations games.

They just don't get that if Glasgow and Edinburgh don't have a good feeder system then the entire sport of rugby dies in Scotland outside of the fee paying schools. We won't have international matches against the top tier as we slip down the rankings and get battered by Italy every year in the 6N in front of a couple of thousand fans, let alone the other sides.

Some of these people claim they are successful businessmen so know what's best

Sounds about right. Combine the clubmen with the chaps who only go to Murrayfield to catch up with Crawford to find out how Farquhar is getting on at Fettes, and you’ve got most of Scottish Rugby’s problems outlined.

OomStruisbaai wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2024 12:53 pm Munster by 15+

Sandstorm wrote: Fri Oct 18, 2024 8:33 pm Scarlets score at the death to beat the Bulls. Big surprise.

Sandstorm wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 5:54 pm Willemse MOTM.

Hi Sards

GrahamWa wrote: Sun Oct 20, 2024 7:27 am Has Etzebeth been cited yet for contact with the eyes?

Sandstorm wrote: Sun Oct 20, 2024 8:20 am 8 Keke Morabe,
7 Ben-Jason Dixon,
6 Marcel Theunissen

These 3 were superb yesterday, carrying and tackling as a proper unit. Munster loosies had no answer.

Blake wrote: Sun Oct 20, 2024 8:36 am

Sandstorm wrote: Sun Oct 20, 2024 8:20 am 8 Keke Morabe,
7 Ben-Jason Dixon,
6 Marcel Theunissen

These 3 were superb yesterday, carrying and tackling as a proper unit. Munster loosies had no answer.

Haha…funny how people watch the same match and come to completely different conclusions.

I’m not a fan of that trio at all. It seems very imbalanced to me and while they had some decent carries, we got murdered at the breakdown. Yes, the ref had a lot to do with the chaos there, but we need some specialist skills.

We are missing a Fourie/Xaba-like loosie to be a menace at the breakdown, and a Dayimani-type on the edges to either run it up the tramlines or at the least secure the ball when our outside backs get tackled out wide. We conceded so many turnovers.

Having 3 carriers, with Roos and Engelbrecht also in the picture is a lot of the same IMO.