Women's Rugby Thread

Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:00 pm

A good piece on the car crash environment behind the Welsh Women's team:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... n=sharebar

The Wales team that barely stands a chance right now amid mysterious exits, crushing results and silence on the contracts that could change everything
Wales Women have just finished last in the Six Nations, losing all three of their matches. But their struggles are from the players' fault

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ByKatie Sands
15:38, 25 APR 2021
SPORT

Wales captain Siwan Lillicrap pictured at the centre of a team huddle (Image: Huw Evans Picture Agency)
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If one of the goals of the new standalone Women's Six Nations tournament was to give it its own spotlight, it has arguably backfired on rugby bosses.

Professional side England and semi-professional outfit France have long dominated the top spots of the tournament table, while the rest of the sides are amateur, but the gulf between resource, performance and skill level in the non-official two-tier tournament has never been more apparent.

Nor has the the disparity in Union support for each team prompted as much scrutiny.

Wales Women were yet to score a single point heading into their third and final match, which led to calls for the Welsh Rugby Union to increase their support to allow the squad to produce truly competitive performances under new head coach Warren Abrahams, appointed last November.

Amid a turbulent few years in terms of coaching personnel, quiet exits and silence on contracts which could change everything for Wales Women - who wear their jersey for no financial gain, but the passion and pride it brings - players' commitment to the jersey has not wavered, even when it would have been understandable.

Here's a look at some of the issues and further context needed for Wales Women's Six Nations results and what the future may hold.

THE RESULTS

Wales' opening 2021 Six Nations game - their first in 13 months - was always going to be a tough challenge against semi-pro France, who have won six of the 22 tournaments they have featured in (a record only bettered by England who have won 16 from 25).

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Les Bleues scored eight tries and the match ended 53-0. A heavy defeat to such a top team was almost expected, but a new attacking style of play built up pre-tournament was hard to spot with the basics letting Wales down, although an improved second-half performance earned Wales some credit against a side who faced England in the final and finished second in the tournament.

Round two saw Wales host Ireland, where a much closer contest against a fellow amateur side was expected, but the visitors recorded a win with a shock 45-0 scoreline. 15 tries had been conceded in two games.

It was a bitter pill to swallow given Wales beat Ireland in the Six Nations and the autumn two years ago, before a 31-12 defeat in 2020 despite a competitive fixture.

Wales finished the campaign with a 27-20 defeat to Scotland on Saturday in the fifth-place play-off - marking their eighth consecutive loss - but it was an energetic performance which offered some level of optimism after what had come before.

It's also worth noting that while Wales have qualified for the World Cup, under-pressure Ireland, Scotland and Italy have not yet done so - meaning they are probably approaching their final games before qualifiers in a very different way, fully focused on results rather than building for the future.

COACHING TURBULENCE

Wales have endured a perplexing roller coaster when it comes to the comings and goings of coaching personnel, proving to be off-field distractions and headline-grabbing exits

New boss Abrahams had been in charge for 157 days as he guided Wales against the Scots. He was appointed on a three-year contract, adding much-needed consistency to the set-up after a revolving door in recent years.

Former head coach Rowland Phillips, who guided Wales to qualify for the next World Cup in 2022, mysteriously disappeared off the radar after naming his autumn 2019 squad, publicly explained by the WRU as "taking some time out away from the programme".

His official departure after almost four years in post was only confirmed after the following Six Nations, which he was absent for, when the WRU said he "wanted to seek other opportunities".

Fair enough, some might say. Coaches move on and all that. But by coincidence, the axe fell on his daughter and former Wales captain Carys Phillips, who - alongside talented forward Sioned Harries - was dropped from the 2020 Six Nations squad. Phillips was recalled this year, but injury prevented her adding to her Wales caps.

Since Rowland's exit, Wales have been guided - temporarily in each instance - by Geraint Lewis, Gareth Whyatt and Darren Edwards, before Abrahams' arrival.

In comparison, Ireland - who many felt Wales could have seriously challenged, if not won against - have enjoyed great consistency under coach Adam Griggs, who took up his role in 2017.

Captain Siwan Lillicrap told Scrum V: "The reality is every coach has got a different philosophy, a different way of training, embedding culture, standards they drive. I always feel like we're getting somewhere and then a change has happened again."

This year, nine days before the Six Nations opener, the WRU dropped the news - on the same day as the squad announcement and 10 paragraphs down - that former Wales captain Rachel Taylor had resigned four months after being appointed full-time as women's national skills coach (becoming the WRU's first professional national female coach). No reason for her departure was given at the time, nor when WalesOnline asked the WRU since.

THE REALITY OF AMATEUR STATUS

It's just the Wales coaching staff who are currently full-time.

As long as Wales Women remain amateur, the majority of its players will need to work full-time (some are in full-time education) to finance their commitment to rugby - forgoing potentially game-changing periods of rest and recovery.

Recently-retired Wales centre Alecs Donovan explained : "Rather than your days off being your recovery, analysis and having a rest, we probably work twice as hard to fit in our full-time jobs around everything."

In the wake of social media abuse, the partner of Welsh centre Kerin Lake spoke publicly to highlight the reality of playing international rugby for the Gloucester-Hartpury midfielder, who puts in 14-hour days - involving the morning school run, work and then not returning home from rugby training until 10pm.

Lillicrap explained: "We've got girls travelling from north Wales, north of England, getting home early hours of the morning and getting up for work the next day. That is the life of a Welsh Women's rugby player. The reality is the recovery is the first thing that goes out the window because you haven't got time to recover."

Compare all that to Ireland, who were reported to effectively be in full-time training to a professional standard ahead of the Six Nations despite also being amateur.

While some Wales players may receive payment from clubs in England's top league - Allianz Premier 15s - it's commonplace for them to also pay for their own insurance too, ruling out much of a profit margin and hardly justifying any argument of being semi-professional.

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A REFUSAL OF EXCUSES

Warren Abrahams' 'glass half full' approach has to be admired when he refuses to accept amateurism as an excuse, with the South African believing they just have to make the best of their current situation.

Asked after the France defeat how Wales can compete with teams who are afforded much more preparation time, he told WalesOnline: "It's a tough situation but that's the situation we are in.

"We've just got to keep competing, keep knocking at the door. If we go in with a mindset of excuses, we'll always be in a disadvantaged position. What we have, that's what we've got to deal with and it's just about taking responsibilities for those little opportunities."

TURNING PROFESSIONAL

The WRU have taken steps to provide Wales Women with a physical environment fit for a professional side, and pressed ahead with its plans to strengthen the performance side of the women's programme with further investment just months after the coronavirus pandemic began.

As for contracts, ex-WRU chief executive Martyn Phillips said last summer he wanted to see contracts brought in before the 2021 World Cup - now, of course, postponed to 2022. "The sooner we get there then the happier I'll be", he said.

On the eve of this year's Six Nations - 10 months after Phillips' comments - we were no closer to knowing much else about the specifics. Martyn Phillips has, of course, since been replaced as CEO by former WRU finance boss Steve Phillips.

If any performance targets were set for the Wales Women team to secure contracts - as good an example of a chicken and egg situation if there was any - they certainly didn't know about them heading into this tournament.

Skipper Siwan Lillicrap revealed at a launch event: "We're under the impression as players that contracts are still going to happen.

"We haven't heard anything differently that they're not. We're trusting the WRU will stay true to their word and this will come to life - shortly, we hope, so we can actually prep for the World Cup next year."

It's no secret that the majority of Wales' squad would relish the chance to be full-time athletes, but the skipper admits some may find themselves at odds with their career or education.

Lillicrap recently told Scrum V: "We would love the opportunity to be full-time athletes to experience it and actually give it our best shot and truly measure ourselves.

"There are people in the squad who are on different career paths, maybe they wouldn't want to because their careers or education is important to them. There are different unique cases, probably, throughout the squad but the reality is most of the squad would relish that opportunity just so we can give it a good shot."

One such player who would have thought long and hard about accepting a contract is Alecs Donovan, who retired from internatioanl rugby in March.

Believing her former Wales teammates are fatigued by Test and club rugby combined with training and work - as much as they wouldn't outwardly admit it - Alecs said of contracts: "I’m going to speak honestly, [whether I'd still be playing] depends what those contracts look like.

"We have no idea whether that’s going to be offering £10,000 a year, £20,000 a year, £30,000 a year. And then there’s people at my kind of age - I’ve just turned 30 - that have built up a career.

"Would I leave that career to have a maybe £15,000 a year contract for a couple of years? I personally wouldn’t but I know there’s so many other girls that have held off on careers and things like that, waiting for these contracts to come."

The ex-Swansea RFC and Ospreys player revealed there were talks of contracting five or 10 people, but believes semi-professional contracts are the step forward in the short-term.

"It's something that needs to happen as soon as they can because I think there’s going to be maybe more of a drop-off like me, or the girls who are really fatigued, give up everything and then think ‘I can’t do this anymore’.

CVC SIX NATIONS CASH (POTENTIAL) BOOST

What about the highly-publicised Six Nations cash injection - totalling £365million - courtesy of private equity firm CVC Capital Partners (in exchange for a 14.3% stake in the tournament’s commercial rights)?

That translates into £51m to the WRU over five years, but none of that extra Six Nations cash is ring-fenced for the women's game; it's up to individual Unions to decide how they spend it.

Six Nations CEO Ben Morel - who dubbed the investment a "unique opportunity to accelerate the growth" of the women's game - said at this year's Women's Six Nations launch: "We need the unions to use that available investment to really do what makes sense, and each situation is slightly different for the different starting points so the areas will be slightly different, union to union."

Pressed on how confident he was that Unions will actually invest in women's rugby given constrained purse strings due to the Covid-19 pandemic, he added: "I’m not only confident but I'm pretty sure that the investment in women’s rugby will over index in terms of focus.

"It's very important. This money is not about short-term cash flow situation, it's about investing in the future. And when you see what is happening with women's rugby in all our nations, I have full confidence that that will happen, because it is crucial to the development of rugby as a whole."

The WRU previously said of the deal: "The potential for growth in the women’s game has been a particular attraction for CVC and the WRU’s own stated intentions to continue to drive investment in this area of rugby union in Wales add strength to this element of the partnership."

Steve Phillips explained the sale of this equity is to be invested in long-term projects which "will pay regular dividends in the future – for the long-term benefit and sustainability of the whole of Welsh rugby".

He added: "Indirectly the investment will in turn provide the foundations on which the whole game can flourish."

It's believed the funds will be spent on WRU capital projects, likely to include a rooftop visitor attraction at the Principality Stadium and expanding into the brewing market. A luxury hotel on Westgate Street operated by The Celtic Manor Resort is a pre-Covid capital project.

WalesOnline has asked the WRU how much of the £51m will be spent on women's rugby but has not received a definitive answer.

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TOP-FOUR TEAM AIMS FOR 2025/26: PATHWAY CHANGES AND PLAYER DEPTH

Abrahams has gone public with his ambition for Wales to be a top-four side by the time the 2025/26 World Cup comes around.

But infrastructure, player depth, pathway, and how clear the pathway is to reach the national team are key areas to review before that goal comes anywhere close to being a reality.

"It might take us a bit of time to redevelop and establish this U18s, U20s," he explained. "These are the tough questions I asked when I first turned up - where are they? Where's the U18s? Where's the U20s?

"I need 10 front rowers to go to the Rugby World Cup, where are they? That's part of my responsibility coming in, is to really look at that infrastructure and how we build."

With 90% of Wales' squad competing in England's Premier 15s this year being dubbed an "added bonus", Abrahams feels Wales now needs to start building a conveyor belt of talent. He will be looking to the recently opened up U18 community game for new talent.

Prior to Covid, the WRU had prepared a development squad to play England U18 on an annual basis, while also boasting a regional U18 programme along with regional seniors, plus a Sevens U18 and senior programme.

WHEN CAN WE SEE A HIGHLY COMPETITIVE WALES WOMEN SIDE?

How long is a piece of string, one might say. But Abrahams - who is treating the World Cup postponement as a blessing - believes there's no reason Wales can't get there.

He told WalesOnline: "We've got a decent picture of what we need to do and where we need to go. We've now got to take a helicopter view to these key ingredients and make sure we build this foundation appropriately.

"It's been a pretty tough time for the girls the last couple of weeks. We've got to respect it's been a hard time for them the last four years, but we're at the start of this journey now.

"It's going to be slow steps, we'll get frustrated along the way, take some hits, take some knocks, we'll have to divert every now and then, but if we stay connected to that vision I'm sure that vision will drive everyone's behaviour."

GRASSROOTS AND DOMESTIC RUGBY

Largely separate but intertwined matters, here.

The new women and girls' rugby season kicked off on March 1, 2020, obviously not having much of a chance to really get going before Covid.

Great efforts have been put into increasing grassroots uptake of rugby among girls in recent years - thanks to schemes like Rookie Rugby, the WRU Hub Programme in schools and colleges, and the introduction of Female Hubs five years ago - but growth in this area alone won't translate into benefits for the national team for a long while yet.

As for domestic rugby, there has been no regional activity for women this season - so any Welsh players wanting elite, regular rugby have had to seek it at English clubs.

In fact, 22 of Wales' 23-strong matchday squad to face Ireland play their club rugby in the Premier 15s, which was launched in 2017 by the RFU to increase England's player pool.

On announcing the hunt for a new Wales Women head coach last year, WRU women and girls’ general manager Charlotte Wathan publicly declared the intention for Wales' top players to train and play in England in the short term amid aims to establish two "high performance centres in Wales, hopefully leading to the development of two competitive 'super clubs'."

WHAT THE WRU HAS TO SAY

The WRU insists it is committed to developing the female game in Wales, while Abrahams defended them at the close of this campaign.

He is aiming to review Wales' tournament with Union bosses as soon as possible, after gauging where Wales are really at following his first competitive games in charge ahead of the World Cup in less than 18 months in New Zealand.

"There's a number of things that we've got to tidy up to make sure that our players are in the best possible place to be able to compete at international level," he told WalesOnline.

"This campaign has given me some great lessons. I'm in a good spot to have some pretty positive conversations. They've been going on behind the scenes.

"Always, we point the finger to the WRU but there's some incredible people who are really invested in the programme and want to help us.

"We had our CEO Steve Phillips and Rob Butcher, they've been in and around our environment. There's a lot of support but we know and, I think most importantly we've seen over the last few years, that we've got to get an infrastructure in the best possible place so we can be competitive at the highest level."

A WRU statement said: "The WRU is committed to developing the female game in Wales. The Board approved a new strategy and increased budget to deliver improvements from grass roots to the elite Women’s game just before the start of the Covid-19 pandemic.

"The increased investment has been supplemented with additional permanent appointments in coaching and dedicated performance staff for the national squad.

"At the participation end of the game, the Female Hub programme has recently restarted in line with the rest of the community game in Wales.

"Whilst the onset of the pandemic has delayed the impact of this increased investment, we remain confident that the agreed strategy will accelerate the development of female rugby from top to bottom."

WHERE'S THE PRESSURE TO CATCH UP WITH THE LIKES OF ENGLAND AND FRANCE?

We asked Six Nations chief Ben Morel exactly that, and he said the tournament organisers want to do everything they can - and want Unions to do the same - to ensure gaps keep closing between teams.

"If you picture yourself in a few years’ time, you would want to make sure that every game is full stadium - whatever the size - that you’ve got great entertainment and obviously tight matches and uncertain outcomes because that is part of the entertainment in terms of what to expect," he said.

"It’s a long term effort, and that's the key point here, it’s building rugby ground up, it's not necessarily about professionalism in the first instance, it's about the community game structure, it's about the club structure to make sure that there is a pathway from starting the game to actually become an elite athlete. Each union is in a slightly different situation but it needs to be a focus at all levels."

A similarly diplomatic answer was given when World Rugby was asked how much pressure it was putting on Unions to contract players and professionalise the game.

At the launch of WXV - a new, annual women's tournament offering consistent autumn competition from 2023 - it was stressed that professionalism is a small part of the women's game right now.

Katie Sadleir, World Rugby's general manager for women's rugby, said: "A lot of our programmes that we're working with don't have full-time professional coaches and so while it's great that at the elite level we're getting into a professional era, we still have a long way to go.

"We're working very closely with the performance directors from the various unions to look at what is the right level of support for them, for where they're at, knowing where they might want to be over a two-year cycle.

"It can't just happen overnight. Professionalism actually starts with creating proper daily training environments, really good coaching, the opportunity to participate in programmes and eventually it goes along a continual that you are in a full-time, paid, professional era.

"It's not that it's not something that we desire to do, but we have to actually take steps to do it in an appropriate way that actually works with what the unions can and cannot afford."

Especially in a post-Covid world where rugby finances are stretched already, some may feel that external and firm pressure from powers that be would be a key ingredient in changing the competitive landscape of women's Test rugby.

WHAT NOW?

Fans will await the results of a WRU review into Wales' Six Nations, if they are even to be made public.

As for Wales' players, asked what can change in the short-term, Lillicrap answered: "As players, because we care so much about this badge, and what we represent and each other as a squad, we'll keep making those sacrifices to make us better."

Three games - played after no international rugby for 13 months - is probably not enough to test where Wales are really at.

Context, patience and understanding of off-field matters are needed.

Abrahams cites his mission as an exciting and long-term project.

Let's just hope his current crop of Wales players stick around long enough to experience the rewards he will hopefully inspire.

They deserve it after years and years of (often unrecognised) sacrifice to pull on the red jersey.

Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:42 pm

Not a massive reveal of the specifics, but a telling one about the amount of complaints John Tait received! Sounds like he's an old school coach that finally caused the players to say "enough, we want him out".

https://rugby.ca/en/news/2021/04/rugby- ... leadership

Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:36 pm

Well shit!

At least one other player has shared an excerpt from a letter she wrote to Rugby Canada about her departure 8 years ago and which wasn't dealt with at all.

Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:41 pm

Abby Dow apparently has the cheat codes tonight. Absolutely ludicrous solo try.

Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:59 pm

Bizarre end to the game, but two fantastic tries from Dow.

Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:00 pm

That was shit ...

France gifted that one (whith a bit of English Sportmanship).

Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:33 pm

Oh crap, forgot this was on! Actually doing work at work on a Friday afternoon.

... oh yeah, the social media boycott by all my usual sources. I can't even find a score with a quick Google, so they're all "off line". What was the final? (Hopefully my trusty youtuber uploads the match.)

Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:37 pm

Niegs wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:33 pm Oh crap, forgot this was on! Actually doing work at work on a Friday afternoon.

... oh yeah, the social media boycott by all my usual sources. I can't even find a score with a quick Google, so they're all "off line". What was the final? (Hopefully my trusty youtuber uploads the match.)

15 17 to England i believe. Match abandoned after 62 minutes due to someone turning off the floodlights and it takes too long for them to warm up again basically.

Was going to be another very tight match.

Edit if you can vpn to bbc iplayer it should be available there for catch up i believe.

Sat May 22, 2021 1:02 am

A nice little story about Dave and Abbie Ward. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... ple-rugby/

There are a few rugby couples in New Zealand, but I'm not sure I can think of any others in the northern hem... I think former Canadian men's hooker and one of the current ladies were dating, but not sure if they're serious. Oh, and other Canadian internationals Maria and Mozac Samson. And France has Marie Alice Yahe and Lionel Beauxis (la batard chanceaux!

).

Maybe I should write an article for Hello!

Sat May 22, 2021 6:06 am

Niegs wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 1:02 am A nice little story about Dave and Abbie Ward. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... ple-rugby/

There are a few rugby couples in New Zealand, but I'm not sure I can think of any others in the northern hem... I think former Canadian men's hooker and one of the current ladies were dating, but not sure if they're serious. Oh, and other Canadian internationals Maria and Mozac Samson. And France has Marie Alice Yahe and Lionel Beauxis (la batard chanceaux! ).

Maybe I should write an article for Hello!

Yep he is a lucky man

Ps. Le batard

Sun May 30, 2021 11:49 am

Teams for the final today at 4pm:

Interesting, between the packs Quins front 5 should be stronger, but Sarries back row is far smarter and superior IMO. No coincidence Sarries have their bulkiest pack out there more or less to match Quins.

In theory Quins backs are superior as individuals, but I can't help think that Sarries players tend to be better gelled and know when to strike or absorb things better. Also smarter readers of the game, better in the breakdown and don't have to work so hard to get points as they punish opposition mistakes and rip into them then their energy or focus levels are down.

Sun May 30, 2021 1:00 pm

Think I'll give this one a miss. Let me know if any tries are run in from more than 10m out, though.

Sun May 30, 2021 3:25 pm

This line...

"Many of those who travel to play would not be able to compete to such a high standard in their own country, with Taylor saying many female players quit after university because of a lack of opportunities in Canada."

... from this article: https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/57254246 irked me a bit.

There are certainly parts of the country where rugby is weak. But the Irish fella in Nova Scotia, I think, has been raising the bar there (a decade ago, I don't think there were any reps from the Maritimes, yet now there are a few in the national set up).

And, sure, the English Premiership is probably one of the strongest places to go, but the top teams in Quebec City, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto and surrounds, Vancouver, and Victoria (maybe Edmonton and Calgary as well) would be competitive. If you're willing to travel to another country, you could also try another part of Canada if you want to play at a higher level.

I know that players might not be happy with the casual attitude that is often found at club, especially when your uni team was training 3-5 days a week with a squad of coaches. But where good setups don't exist, I'd like to see more players take the lead on improving it. Recruit a coach, set standards for improvement, or even take your collective knowledge and self-manage the team. I've seen it done here. There's even a women's team in Toronto that doesn't train and yet they're highly competitive as they're offering that kind of alternative to busy veteran players. Organize regional all star teams to challenge others.

I've also seen some 'elite' players have a skewed perception of what 'better' is. Wanting to do fitness all the time at training, when you only have it twice a week and a wide spectrum of motivations. If you aspire to be a national player (worse, if you are on the radar), asking your club coach to be responsible for your fitness isn't going to get you there. Should be done on their own time, imo. Demanding a higher standard of skills and intensity in technical/tactical/strategic aspects, for sure! And I've seen the community players raise their game realizing "I'm on this team of great players, I should step it up" (or the go 2nd string or another club). There was a really good article about BC men's rugby recently where the coach interviewed said we have to step out of the club-only mentality and focus on developing a next-level tier to train / scout even more players (and he basically stated that an MLR pro team isn't enough). I completely agree. I think instead of one off provincial matches, I'd rather see us have regional rep teams where the clubs send their best and play the next region's best once a month or so. Invite girls to watch, build yourselves up as minor celebs in their mind, take it seriously, promote the hell out of it.

Sun May 30, 2021 4:13 pm

Sparing a thought for your blood pressure, Eldan, after seeing Botterman with yet another idiotic penalty (followed up by a B Cleall dumb one as well).

Sun May 30, 2021 6:46 pm

Niegs wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 4:13 pm Sparing a thought for your blood pressure, Eldan, after seeing Botterman with yet another idiotic penalty (followed up by a B Cleall dumb one as well).

Good thing I was hoping Quins win this one then isn't it?

I've said before I think Quins have done an awesome job in promoting the Women's game and giving it a lot of status, IMO they were a tad unlucky a few years ago when they should have won it and Saracens stunned them two years ago to thrash them. It's both good for the game in a new winner and great for the efforts of Quins in the women's game.

Sun May 30, 2021 6:47 pm

Also it's all about moments like this that make sport so special:

Sun May 30, 2021 7:23 pm

A bit of a shame for all their harping on about Women's sport, The Guardian has not yet published a report of the final I can see. Same for the Times. But are all over the men's finals. The Telegraph has.

Sun May 30, 2021 9:12 pm

Some thoughts:

Leanne Riley's kicking and passing was superb. She's developed real zip to her passes and delivers them quickly. her pressure on the kicker was also superb. I'm of the opinion she is becoming the best back in the world right now.

Zoe Harrison, I've rated her, but she has for England and in todays final not executed in big or pressure moments. Considering her kicks are a big part of her game, she was terrible. Out on the full, charge down and not even making touch in the first half. On the other hand Riley's and Tuima's kicking was on point.

I really like where Quins going in their attach this season. It's far more crisp and effective in creating space and an attacking platform. Despite it all being forward tries. Their backline is ticking well this season. Their defense was huge when down to 13. Shaunagh Brown was the best forward on the pitch and got bigger and bigger as the game went on. Big carries, try saver getting under the ball, good turnovers, big scrums, everywhere in the 2nd half.

Also the ref was top notch. I've praise Sarah Cox before. She's very good today for a half but then a bit happy in the 2nd, given the leeway Sararcens had in the first. . Didn't let anyone get away with shenanigans at the breakdown or the maul. Interesting Saracens go from domaining games via the breakdown to not dealing with a ref consistently strict very well. Likewise Harlequins have improved in the breakdown, slowed ball down well and without taking the piss and responded to the ref calls well.

All in all, a game where you could see Harlequins wanted it so much more.

Sun May 30, 2021 9:30 pm

eldanielfire wrote: Sun May 30, 2021 7:23 pm A bit of a shame for all their harping on about Women's sport, The Guardian has not yet published a report of the final I can see. Same for the Times. But are all over the men's finals. The Telegraph has.

They got there in the end, a few minutes after your post

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... -15s-title

Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:09 pm

Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:44 pm

Sleeping giants Bristol Bears are having a "something special happening" move now:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/57497742

Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:04 pm

eldanielfire wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:44 pm Sleeping giants Bristol Bears are having a "something special happening" move now:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/57497742

I imagine the pitifully low salary cap means that top players will spread out among the teams, which is a salary cap working as intended.

A shame for Quins though. I've watched a game or 2.

Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:07 pm

eldanielfire wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:44 pm Sleeping giants Bristol Bears are having a "something special happening" move now:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/57497742

The Salary cap is something like £65k. It's certainly not capable of paying teams to be professional. Now some teams use their partners and contacts to find players jobs, or given them other paid rolls at the club. Yes it's basically the equivalent of the sham-amateurism but weird claiming the players are professional.

Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:32 am

Fun celebration from the Russian women at the end!

Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:57 am

Eldan, what's your take on this?

Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:04 am

Niegs wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:57 am Eldan, what's your take on this?

Partly surprised it's not Loughborough as it is most seasons

Interesting, Big gain for Harlequins who perhaps didn't have a game changing x-factor in their back line away from the wings. I was confused on occasion why Killdunne was on the bench for Wasps at times. Maybe a bad fit for them or some other issues as being in England training camps, as opposed to Ellie just wanting better teams.

Wasps pack have got better but the two big ones still are essentially the difference at the business end of the season. I always stated Bristol's squad was close to great, not sure why they under achieved, so I predict they will be in the mix now if their coach delivers. So a really so a big loss for Wasps IMO, but they didn't exactly get the most out of her considering but they won't likely be any closer to challenging for the title.

Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:14 am

eldanielfire wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:04 am
Niegs wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:57 am Eldan, what's your take on this?

Partly surprised it's not Loughborough as it is most seasons

Interesting, Big gain for Harlequins who perhaps didn't have a game changing x-factor in their back line away from the wings. I was confused on occasion why Killdunne was on the bench for Wasps at times. Maybe a bad fit for them or some other issues as being in England training camps, as opposed to Ellie just wanting better teams.

Wasps pack have got better but the two big ones still are essentially the difference at the business end of the season. I always stated Bristol's squad was close to great, not sure why they under achieved, so I predict they will be in the mix now if their coach delivers. So a really so a big loss for Wasps IMO, but they didn't exactly get the most out of her considering but they won't likely be any closer to challenging for the title.

Fair points. I wonder if Giselle, like me, sticks with those who are at training the most? With the best team I ever coached, I left an international outside of the 22 for the league final!

(She'd only joined mid-season, could only make half the practices. Two other wingers were just fine, had been with the club for years and at almost every training session. Wouldn't be fair to our 'locals' to stack the side with all the 'ringers'.)

Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:19 pm

Women's Olympic Sevens about to start. I genuinely hope GB get a medal for all my criticisms of the weird over structured way GB teams try to play Sevens. Also the men basically played with no forwards, all backs from what I could see, wonder if the women will have the same strategy?

I can't see anyone saying no and resisting the humping New Zealand will give everybody. No Fiji amazingness in the women's game to stop them and Australia I think aren't the force they were.

Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:53 pm

eldanielfire wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:19 pm Women's Olympic Sevens about to start. I genuinely hope GB get a medal for all my criticisms of the weird over structured way GB teams try to play Sevens. Also the men basically played with no forwards, all backs from what I could see, wonder if the women will have the same strategy?

I can't see anyone saying no and resisting the humping New Zealand will give everybody. No Fiji amazingness in the women's game to stop them and Australia I think aren't the force they were.

Someone on twitter said Silver / Bronze likely between Aus, Fra, Russia ... could see that too, though Canada and GB will be up there. Looks like just five horses in the race, that's for sure. Didn't Fiji upset someone in a tourney a while back with their power, maybe a speedster or two? Even if, I can't imagine they've had much prep time/games.

Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:52 am

GB showing exactly what myself and Neigs gets so frustrated with them. Amazing players who could beta anybody who play moronically.

Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:51 am

eldanielfire wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:52 am GB showing exactly what myself and Neigs gets so frustrated with them. Amazing players who could beta anybody who play moronically.

Took their tries well in the first half and I thought maybe they've progressed, but thinking back on it, they were individual cuts and wrong-footed Kiwi defenders, were they not? Nothing too clever in those... though the Kiwi tries were also "give it to Michaela on the wing" (and Tyla's picking out the slow forward).

Fiji's tries versus Canada were really great! Having a go, supporting the carrier, keeping the ball alive. Even if you don't have the size, I reckon you can play the game like Fiji. Don't resort to rucks, allowing the defence to reorganise; keep them unsettled and twisted out of shape with multiple threats. The worst 7s, I think, is a team spread out across the pitch moving the ball from wing to wing hoping to a) get around with a speedster or b) have the big player run over a small player (though I don't see as many big forward on the wing types as I did last time I paid attention).

Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:44 pm

I love this interview from this kiwi:

Wed Aug 11, 2021 9:46 am

The mini tournament to determine tha last European qualifier for the world cup will be held in Parma:

https://www.onrugby.it/2021/08/11/il-to ... in-italia/

games pencilled in for the 13th, 19th and 25th of september. Winner goes into Group B as "Europe 1", runner up goes into the repechage

Fri Aug 13, 2021 1:08 pm

No mention of where she’s moving yet? I’d rather see more moves to ‘have not’ teams than stacking the perennial front runners (if they have a choice to move with work, etc)

“I’d of ...”

Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:51 pm

Saracens losing a few players:

#RugbySaracens
@RugbySaracens
Sad to see five more superb
@SaracensWomen
leaving the club.

Thank you and very best wishes for your future to the departing quintet:

Black circle
@BryonyCleall

Red circle
@eloisehayward

Black circle
@kayleighsearcy

Red circle
@georgie_lingham

Black circle Molly Morrissey

I believe Tamara Taylor hasn't signed back et either, That will be a fair bit of bulk in the pack lost this off season, which was a huge point of strength for them.

Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:34 pm

Byrony Cleall off to Wasps it seems.

Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:50 pm

eldanielfire wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:34 pm Byrony Cleall off to Wasps it seems.

Oh, that's a nice addition then! Did they lose a front rower to Bristol or someone else?

Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:50 am

Niegs wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:50 pm
eldanielfire wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:34 pm Byrony Cleall off to Wasps it seems.
Oh, that's a nice addition then! Did they lose a front rower to Bristol or someone else?

Not sure. Wasps always needed some more bulky but excellent forwards in their pack. Of course she is IMO an excellent flanker, like Shaunagh Brown, a superb number 6 who plays well at Tighthead. Either way she will be an asset to Wasps who have a good pack who only lacks the sheer physical bulk, raw power and physicality of Harlequins, Loughborough and Sarries. Her take was she wanted a new challenge. Perhaps her and of course Wasps have one of the most highly rated female coaches.

Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:54 am

I see Canada are playing England and Wales this autumn. Once again our amateur org shows its cluelessness with:

"Of note, over 18 current NSW15 team members have committed to participating in leagues overseas for the upcoming season, including English Premiership Clubs Saracens, Exeter Chiefs, Loughborough Lightning, Worechester..."

I'm glad to see them doing an intersquad match, as maybe they'll unearth some gems in a true probables v possibles contest... but I'm not such a fan of them charging money for it. I think they have a fund that pays for women's team events (sad that it had to be a charitable thing set up), so I don't imagine they're desperate for the money, but how much are they actually going to make from charging $20-odd for a thing like this? Better off selling it large to schools for free, set up some concession stands/merch tables and make some cash that way.

Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:14 pm

Exeter Chief's Women continue the Saracens (men and women) template of Rugby success. Some very good players in there Claria Nelson is an excellent hooker, should have been given more of a chance with England. Bradley is a very good scrum half. Grabbing the Japanese player is interesting, Exeter do seem to be looking more widely than others for talent.