NPR

Blackmac wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:11 am

clydecloggie wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 12:19 am Keep seeing these posts saying we were poor at 9 and 10.

Owen Farrell is a Test Lion and was nowhere compared to Finn Russell. Who didn't do anything special, by his standards.

Ben Youngs would have been a Lion if his sister-in-law hadn't been battling the curse. He was nowhere compared to Ali Price. Who didn't do anything special, by his standards.

Perhaps a wee bit more credit? No team dominates a match like that with a pair of half-backs who don't know what they're doing.

No sorry, don't see it. His trip alone was enough for him to be getting the stick he is, it is just not acceptable that he can do that in such a match. He took a couple of really bad options that caused us all sorts of problems, attempts at drop goal were laughably bad, as were the kicks at goal, plus he kicked a few touch kicks straight out.
He is meant to be our true world class player but I felt we won despite him not because of him.
Can you imagine what the score would have been with an in his prime Sexton in the team today.

It has to be noted that every journalist I have read this morning is saying Finn had a great game, albeit with a couple of howlers.

I was a wee bit harsh on him yesterday but I’m beginning to think that was emotion. Not his stunning best but we have been asking for him to just get the basics in order and it seems he did

I don’t think Russell was terrible. Just nowhere near his best, and still had some of the iffy decision making that goes along with the genius.

But that’s the beauty of it. We didn’t need our world-class-on-his-day stand-off to win the game with a moment (or moments) of magic. The team performance meant he didn’t have to. If he had been on sparkling form we’d probably have scored more. But who cares?

Price didn’t actually have a bad game either. He probably deserves credit for not letting the early charge downs by Itoje get inside his head too much.

And how about Townsend.

I was never in the Toony oot camp but he deserves massive credit for this. Took a team on the way up and made them spectacular to watch. Things started to go wrong and an awful WC so he took the team apart and has built it back up - taking a step back to look at it, it’s quite a remarkable achievement for an international coach.

His win percentage is now better than any other coach in Scottish history and he is the only coach of the home nations from the country he is coaching.

He also seems to have learnt the art of man management that apparently didn’t come easily to him. Smoothed over the Finn incident, played the long game with Redpath and appears to have a team who really want to play for him.

I think we sometimes forget what an incredible player he was as well. He deserves an awful lot more credit and status.

One of the positive things about COVID was as a family we watched the game in front of the TV. We have been to the odd game as a family but in general it is me and the lad. So all 4 of us where jumping around like mad things. A real family moment.

That aside, Scotland's held on for the win. So many times we buckle or just let it go. But we held on and it looked like we did it in a measured manner. Real game control.

As for the performance ....everybody has already said it. Brilliant. We did not let England play and our tactics were spot on and we executed them so well.

The lad who is now 18 could not contain himself and needed to hide in the kitchen towards the end. He could not take the pressure. The good thing is our team could !!

I do normally have water in my malt but i added drops of Farrell and Jones' tears last night. It tasted so good!!!

Morning all, so that was quite something yesterday wasn’t it? Sod’s law that we finally do it with nobody in the stadium!

I was in the Toony out camp, happy to eat my words on that front.

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:09 am And how about Townsend.

I was never in the Toony oot camp but he deserves massive credit for this. Took a team on the way up and made them spectacular to watch. Things started to go wrong and an awful WC so he took the team apart and has built it back up - taking a step back to look at it, it’s quite a remarkable achievement for an international coach.

His win percentage is now better than any other coach in Scottish history and he is the only coach of the home nations from the country he is coaching.

He also seems to have learnt the art of man management that apparently didn’t come easily to him. Smoothed over the Finn incident, played the long game with Redpath and appears to have a team who really want to play for him.

I think we sometimes forget what an incredible player he was as well. He deserves an awful lot more credit and status.

100%

Really hope we back it up next weekend.

Begbie wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:25 am

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:09 am And how about Townsend.

I was never in the Toony oot camp but he deserves massive credit for this. Took a team on the way up and made them spectacular to watch. Things started to go wrong and an awful WC so he took the team apart and has built it back up - taking a step back to look at it, it’s quite a remarkable achievement for an international coach.

His win percentage is now better than any other coach in Scottish history and he is the only coach of the home nations from the country he is coaching.

He also seems to have learnt the art of man management that apparently didn’t come easily to him. Smoothed over the Finn incident, played the long game with Redpath and appears to have a team who really want to play for him.

I think we sometimes forget what an incredible player he was as well. He deserves an awful lot more credit and status.

100%

Really hope we back it up next weekend.

That's the big thing. We have been here before only for it to be another false dawn. Winning our home games are now a must.

Is see the PR ratings have Hogg at 7. Equally our poorest back. That's how much I value the so called experts. He was magnificent.

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:03 am

Blackmac wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:11 am

clydecloggie wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 12:19 am Keep seeing these posts saying we were poor at 9 and 10.

Owen Farrell is a Test Lion and was nowhere compared to Finn Russell. Who didn't do anything special, by his standards.

Ben Youngs would have been a Lion if his sister-in-law hadn't been battling the curse. He was nowhere compared to Ali Price. Who didn't do anything special, by his standards.

Perhaps a wee bit more credit? No team dominates a match like that with a pair of half-backs who don't know what they're doing.

No sorry, don't see it. His trip alone was enough for him to be getting the stick he is, it is just not acceptable that he can do that in such a match. He took a couple of really bad options that caused us all sorts of problems, attempts at drop goal were laughably bad, as were the kicks at goal, plus he kicked a few touch kicks straight out.
He is meant to be our true world class player but I felt we won despite him not because of him.
Can you imagine what the score would have been with an in his prime Sexton in the team today.

It has to be noted that every journalist I have read this morning is saying Finn had a great game, albeit with a couple of howlers.

I was a wee bit harsh on him yesterday but I’m beginning to think that was emotion. Not his stunning best but we have been asking for him to just get the basics in order and it seems he did

He had about half a dozen moments you should not expect from a player of his ability. Against an on form team they could easily cost us the match.
He reminds me too much of Townsend to be honest who I always felt was too flakey to cope behind a Scotland pack.

Yr Alban wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:07 am I don’t think Russell was terrible. Just nowhere near his best, and still had some of the iffy decision making that goes along with the genius.

But that’s the beauty of it. We didn’t need our world-class-on-his-day stand-off to win the game with a moment (or moments) of magic. The team performance meant he didn’t have to. If he had been on sparkling form we’d probably have scored more. But who cares?

Price didn’t actually have a bad game either. He probably deserves credit for not letting the early charge downs by Itoje get inside his head too much.

Been reading through the various ratings from papers/rugby sites and they have split opinion.

6-8 for Russell and 5-8 for Price. I think that is replicated on here.

I felt Price was too slow at times to release the ball after taking a few steps. The interception in the 22 was very poor.

Yeah Blackmac that rating for Hogg is nonsense.
Hogg controlled the game as well as I've seen a full back do it for a long time.

Blackmac wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:35 am Is see the PR ratings have Hogg at 7. Equally our poorest back. That's how much I value the so called experts. He was magnificent.

Tom English has the wrong ref from the wrong country in his report!

Blackmac wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:40 am

Slick wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:03 am

Blackmac wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:11 am

No sorry, don't see it. His trip alone was enough for him to be getting the stick he is, it is just not acceptable that he can do that in such a match. He took a couple of really bad options that caused us all sorts of problems, attempts at drop goal were laughably bad, as were the kicks at goal, plus he kicked a few touch kicks straight out.
He is meant to be our true world class player but I felt we won despite him not because of him.
Can you imagine what the score would have been with an in his prime Sexton in the team today.

It has to be noted that every journalist I have read this morning is saying Finn had a great game, albeit with a couple of howlers.

I was a wee bit harsh on him yesterday but I’m beginning to think that was emotion. Not his stunning best but we have been asking for him to just get the basics in order and it seems he did

He had about half a dozen moments you should not expect from a player of his ability. Against an on form team they could easily cost us the match.
He reminds me too much of Townsend to be honest who I always felt was too flakey to cope behind a Scotland pack.

Only his second start in internationals in a long time, I think he'll be grand next week. We will get the odd performance like that out of him but he's clever enough to sort it.

Russell and Price had quiet games but their mere presence on the pitch scares the shit out of the opposition. They both pose a threat and this fixes defences which means there is more space out wide from 12 onwards. They are worth their weight in gold. Looked like early doors that England were targeting Russell which he was more than happy with and coped with it fine, however thats why Redpath had such a good game, he had space to work in. Also their defence is pretty good and Russell never gets credit for how strong he is in the tackle, he doesn't shirk anything or anybody.

The positive thing now is we have threats from all over the pitch - Hogg, WdM, Redpath et al scare the shit out of opposition with ball in hand and if England thought neutralising Price and Russell meant we wouldn't pose a threat they were wrong. Also couldn't believe they thought kicking long to Hogg, WdM, Maitland and Russell was a sound tactic, lets give out most dangerous runners the ball and 30m of open space to run into.

However foundation for our game was our pack, never gave the English an inch, pushed them back and made yards with the ball in hand. England, were always going to play a kicking game with Farrell at 10 but they were doing it under pressure and 30-40 yards further back than what they had planned. The likes of Youngs and Farrell can't play when their pack is under pressure, they were awful and the English game plan fell apart with no Plan B to call upon. Toonie outsmarted Eddie!

Just need to back this up against the sheephsaggers a who I think will be a harder proposition even at home.

Graham's beard deserved its own number

Simon Berghan moving to Glasgow at the end of this season. Odd move.

Biffer wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 12:05 pm Simon Berghan moving to Glasgow at the end of this season. Odd move.

Fagerson must be off then, there was some noise about that, but it's odd that Bergs is moving.

I hadn't realised that Jonny Gray is only 26, he seems to have been around for ages.

GogLais wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 12:50 pm I hadn't realised that Jonny Gray is only 26, he seems to have been around for ages.

He has. He got his first cap in 2013, aged 19. Locks, like front row players, often have their best years at 30 and beyond (look at POC and AWJ) which is encouraging. Jonny will hopefully be around for two more RWCs.

Hogg is the same - first cap at 18/19, and he’s still only 28. Sadly I doubt he’ll make the 2027 RWC aged 35, but he’s got a good few years left at the top all the same. Plus he hasn’t broken the Scottish try-scoring record yet (He has 20 international tries and needs 5 more for the top spot).

Just had a thought that made me smile. If you’d told all of us at Christmas that in February we’d be watching Cam Redpath lift the Calcutta Cup at Twickenham, we’d have believed you. We just wouldn’t have expected him to be doing it wearing a blue shirt!

Just watched the game with a bit less emotion and have to hold my hands up about my assessment of Russell. Whilst the trip was inexcusable, neither the screw up in the middle of the messy drop goal attempt were his fault. A couple of touch finders apart, his control of the game was so superb it barely registered at the time, possibly because he makes it look so easy.

I'll stick to assessing forwards in the future.

Is it too soon for the Lions chat?

On the plane:
Hogg
Watson
Richie
Finn
Sutherland
Zander

Save the date:
Duhan
Price
Cummings
Gray

Potential Bolter:
Redpath

Keep it up and you never know:
Turner

Blackmac wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:34 pm Just watched the game with a bit less emotion and have to hold my hands up about my assessment of Russell. Whilst the trip was inexcusable, neither the screw up in the middle of the messy drop goal attempt were his fault. A couple of touch finders apart, his control of the game was so superb it barely registered at the time, possibly because he makes it look so easy.

I'll stick to assessing forwards in the future.

Much the same

KingBlairhorn wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:36 pm Is it too soon for the Lions chat?

On the plane:
Hogg (captain)
Watson
Richie
Finn
Sutherland
Zander

Save the date:
Duhan
Price
Cummings
Gray

Potential Bolter:
Redpath

Keep it up and you never know:
Turner

Added something there for you ;-) I'm not taking my tongue out my cheek or letting it go :D

There aren't many/any standout 12 options so Redpath has as big a chance as any.

Will see how the forwards go against France and Ireland but plenty put their hands up.

The saracens boys looked miles off the pace (partly due to us). That will concern Gatland as George should be a shoe in.

KingBlairhorn wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:36 pm Is it too soon for the Lions chat?

On the plane:
Hogg
Watson
Richie
Finn
Sutherland
Zander

Save the date:
Duhan
Price
Cummings
Gray

Potential Bolter:
Redpath

Keep it up and you never know:
Turner

There is absolutely no way that Gatland would have six or seven Scots. He'll make some fucking excuse up.

Biffer wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:57 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:36 pm Is it too soon for the Lions chat?

On the plane:
Hogg
Watson
Richie
Finn
Sutherland
Zander

Save the date:
Duhan
Price
Cummings
Gray

Potential Bolter:
Redpath

Keep it up and you never know:
Turner

There is absolutely no way that Gatland would have six or seven Scots. He'll make some fucking excuse up.

It’s ready-made for him. ‘Winning away in an empty stadium isn’t the same as winning away in front of a hostile crowd.’ He’s an expert at moving the goalposts.

A lot of Gatland paranoia around here. If we play 3/4 as good the rest of the tournament as we did last night we'll have some lads on tour if there is one.

I like neeps wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:44 pm A lot of Gatland paranoia around here. If we play 3/4 as good the rest of the tournament as we did last night we'll have some lads on tour if there is one.

Some, but not the number there should be.

Biffer wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:47 pm

I like neeps wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:44 pm A lot of Gatland paranoia around here. If we play 3/4 as good the rest of the tournament as we did last night we'll have some lads on tour if there is one.

Some, but not the number there should be.

I don't know, I really think this will be our biggest contingent in a long time. Gatland isn't Welsh coach so doesn't personally know and coach as many of them. Ireland aren't as good as they've been. Think it'll be quite even.

I like neeps wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:57 pm

Biffer wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:47 pm

I like neeps wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:44 pm A lot of Gatland paranoia around here. If we play 3/4 as good the rest of the tournament as we did last night we'll have some lads on tour if there is one.

Some, but not the number there should be.

I don't know, I really think this will be our biggest contingent in a long time. Gatland isn't Welsh coach so doesn't personally know and coach as many of them. Ireland aren't as good as they've been. Think it'll be quite even.

Agreed, and context is king. Last tour we were improving but still shit, better than Italy but a solid bet for 5th in the 6N every year. The tour before we were a decent bet to finish last every year. In contrast England, Wales and Ireland were trading grand slams. When it came to picking on a 50/50, do you take the guy that just won a slam or the guy that just got bodied by Italy?

Things are different now and I expect us to be there or there about in selection. If not, then we can all agree Garland is a fanny.

Agree with the last couple of posts but then I've never bought into the paranoia.

Just a thought on Finn as I'm watching Halfpenny kick. He doesn't kick for metro so has 4 games to prove his goalkicking is robust enough. He has shown it in the past but if he can't be consistent they'd need a golkicker elsewhere in the side.

Big D wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:35 pm Just a thought on Finn as I'm watching Halfpenny kick. He doesn't kick for metro so has 4 games to prove his goalkicking is robust enough. He has shown it in the past but if he can't be consistent they'd need a golkicker elsewhere in the side.

The obvious solution is Farrell at 12 and Finn at 10.

KingBlairhorn wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:54 pm

Big D wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:35 pm Just a thought on Finn as I'm watching Halfpenny kick. He doesn't kick for metro so has 4 games to prove his goalkicking is robust enough. He has shown it in the past but if he can't be consistent they'd need a golkicker elsewhere in the side.

The obvious solution is Farrell at 12 and Finn at 10.

Fuck that.

Big D wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 5:02 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:54 pm

Big D wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:35 pm Just a thought on Finn as I'm watching Halfpenny kick. He doesn't kick for metro so has 4 games to prove his goalkicking is robust enough. He has shown it in the past but if he can't be consistent they'd need a golkicker elsewhere in the side.

The obvious solution is Farrell at 12 and Finn at 10.

Fuck that.

Henshaw would be my 12, but if you need a kicker then I would rather sacrifice him than Finn.

While Scotland risk a poor drop goal late on, both Wales and Ireland out did us today. Kicking the ball away with 10s left, and kicking out on the full for a line out to possibly win.

KingBlairhorn wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:22 pm

I like neeps wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:57 pm

Biffer wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:47 pm

Some, but not the number there should be.

I don't know, I really think this will be our biggest contingent in a long time. Gatland isn't Welsh coach so doesn't personally know and coach as many of them. Ireland aren't as good as they've been. Think it'll be quite even.

Agreed, and context is king. Last tour we were improving but still shit, better than Italy but a solid bet for 5th in the 6N every year. The tour before we were a decent bet to finish last every year. In contrast England, Wales and Ireland were trading grand slams. When it came to picking on a 50/50, do you take the guy that just won a slam or the guy that just got bodied by Italy?

Things are different now and I expect us to be there or there about in selection. If not, then we can all agree Garland is a fanny.

Don’t agree we were ‘improving but still shit’. We had a winning record in that 6N, including convincing victories over Ireland and Wales. We could and perhaps should have beaten France as well. But we had a bad day at Twickenham, and ‘winning away’ became the criterion.

Blackmac wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:35 am Is see the PR ratings have Hogg at 7. Equally our poorest back. That's how much I value the so called experts. He was magnificent.

That is utterly bonkers that 65m kick to the England 5m for Morale was worth a 9 on its own.

Openside wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 5:26 pm

Blackmac wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:35 am Is see the PR ratings have Hogg at 7. Equally our poorest back. That's how much I value the so called experts. He was magnificent.

That is utterly bonkers that 65m kick to the England 5m for Morale was worth a 9 on its own.

Hiya OS. This is where you’ll generally find me.

Yr Alban wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 5:21 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:22 pm

I like neeps wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:57 pm

I don't know, I really think this will be our biggest contingent in a long time. Gatland isn't Welsh coach so doesn't personally know and coach as many of them. Ireland aren't as good as they've been. Think it'll be quite even.

Agreed, and context is king. Last tour we were improving but still shit, better than Italy but a solid bet for 5th in the 6N every year. The tour before we were a decent bet to finish last every year. In contrast England, Wales and Ireland were trading grand slams. When it came to picking on a 50/50, do you take the guy that just won a slam or the guy that just got bodied by Italy?

Things are different now and I expect us to be there or there about in selection. If not, then we can all agree Garland is a fanny.

Don’t agree we were ‘improving but still shit’. We had a winning record in that 6N, including convincing victories over Ireland and Wales. We could and perhaps should have beaten France as well. But we had a bad day at Twickenham, and ‘winning away’ became the criterion.

I believe it was standing up and being counted when everything was on the line rather than winning away tbh. That was our guys biggest, most intense pressure filled game they'd have had and blew it. There isn't a track record of Scottish teams turning up and performing under any sort of pressure.

The other thing to remember about that tour was Jones and Nel probably would have good cases to make it but for a serious hamstring tear and neck injury.

Big D wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 5:38 pm

Yr Alban wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 5:21 pm

KingBlairhorn wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:22 pm

Agreed, and context is king. Last tour we were improving but still shit, better than Italy but a solid bet for 5th in the 6N every year. The tour before we were a decent bet to finish last every year. In contrast England, Wales and Ireland were trading grand slams. When it came to picking on a 50/50, do you take the guy that just won a slam or the guy that just got bodied by Italy?

Things are different now and I expect us to be there or there about in selection. If not, then we can all agree Garland is a fanny.

Don’t agree we were ‘improving but still shit’. We had a winning record in that 6N, including convincing victories over Ireland and Wales. We could and perhaps should have beaten France as well. But we had a bad day at Twickenham, and ‘winning away’ became the criterion.

I believe it was standing up and being counted when everything was on the line rather than winning away tbh. That was our guys biggest, most intense pressure filled game they'd have had and blew it. There isn't a track record of Scottish teams turning up and performing under any sort of pressure.

The other thing to remember about that tour was Jones and Nel probably would have good cases to make it but for a serious hamstring tear and neck injury.

Hiya Warren.