NPR

We have a plethora of quality loose forwards that are arguably better than him anyways.

average joe wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:07 am We have a plethora of quality loose forwards that are arguably better than him anyways.

I used to say that as well. But who?? Kolisi has been playing pretty well for the boks the last couple of years. And we have never developed am alternative at 6. Kwagga, van Staden and Fourie the other opensides in the squad.
Who will be captain? Am?!

boere wors wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:13 am

average joe wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:07 am We have a plethora of quality loose forwards that are arguably better than him anyways.

I used to say that as well. But who?? Kolisi has been playing pretty well for the boks the last couple of years. And we have never developed am alternative at 6. Kwagga, van Staden and Fourie the other opensides in the squad.
Who will be captain? Am?!

Kolisi is not a classic openside, there are players that suite the position better. The team has a large leadership group. He's not unreplaceable as a player or a captain.

average joe wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:23 am Kolisi is not a classic openside, there are players that suite the position better. The team has a large leadership group. He's not unreplaceable as a player or a captain.

I think this is a bit unfair. He can sometimes take a while to find his mojo, but when he was on form he was incredible.

His captaincy was even more important than his form. His presence on the field lifted the team. I think this may be very hard to replicate.

Of course nobody is irreplaceable, but I think we'll be a poorer team without him there.

Also, there are the optics to consider.

assfly wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:44 am

average joe wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:23 am Kolisi is not a classic openside, there are players that suite the position better. The team has a large leadership group. He's not unreplaceable as a player or a captain.

I think this is a bit unfair. He can sometimes take a while to find his mojo, but when he was on form he was incredible.

His captaincy was even more important than his form. His presence on the field lifted the team. I think this may be very hard to replicate.

Of course nobody is irreplaceable, but I think we'll be a poorer team without him there.

Also, there are the optics to consider.

I'm not saying that he's underserving or that he should be replaced. He is injured and will probably not make it back in time. But I'm not stressed to much about loose forward cover, we have enough. There are other positions that I feel we are a bit thin and if key players in those positions get injured, I might get a bit worried.

average joe wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 8:07 am There are other positions that I feel we are a bit thin and if key players in those positions get injured, I might get a bit worried.

Hooker
Flyhalf
Outside Centre

The run-in to a world cup is always a horrible period. You just know we're going to lose key players.

assfly wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 8:14 am

average joe wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 8:07 am There are other positions that I feel we are a bit thin and if key players in those positions get injured, I might get a bit worried.

Hooker
Flyhalf
Outside Centre

The run-in to a world cup is always a horrible period. You just know we're going to lose key players.

Etzebeth would be the biggest concern for me

assfly wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 8:14 am

average joe wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 8:07 am There are other positions that I feel we are a bit thin and if key players in those positions get injured, I might get a bit worried.

Hooker..............Dweba is there.....
Flyhalf...............Willemse and Libbok are there
Outside Centre..........Dan Du Plesis is our best after Amm

The run-in to a world cup is always a horrible period. You just know we're going to lose key players.

See in Red......no issue at all.

assfly wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 10:15 am

I have been super impressed with Dweba. How many players can go a whole game with the same piece of bubblegum in his mouth and not lose it. And his physique is to die for. Perfect for flexing around the action where the cameras are.
Libbok is taking names and going places. There is always Willemse to take over the kicking duties at the RWC if Libbok is having an off day.
I have been very impressed with Dan...he really does break the line at will and generate go forward ball.

I se Willie is getting tired of Japan and looking for a new home

boere wors wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:13 am

average joe wrote: ↑Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:07 am We have a plethora of quality loose forwards that are arguably better than him anyways.

I used to say that as well. But who?? Kolisi has been playing pretty well for the boks the last couple of years. And we have never developed am alternative at 6. Kwagga, van Staden and Fourie the other opensides in the squad.
Who will be captain? Am?!

Sad for Kolisi. I immediately thought that knee kak when it happened.

Fourie as a specialized 6. He performed now 2 seasons. The Stormers are lost without him. Can also backup nr2.

I am a bit worried going in the WC but we must first take care of TRC. Hope the coaches use it to settle more depth in positions. You must have real player depth going to France. No easy draw this time.

Was just about to say that. Players will have to fire right of the bat. There's no easy route for us in this one. Going in with a flaky 10 or an untested centre pair will kill any hope I have. Now is not the time to draw some random names from a hat. I'm sure the team is settled, and everything ells is covered by now.

I see it is possible that Kolisi recovers just in time for the RWC. Which imho would be the worst possible outcome, again having a strapped together passenger as captain on the field, just like 2015 and 2019. Though to be fair, 2019 went fairly well nonetheless...

boere wors wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 7:59 am I see it is possible that Kolisi recovers just in time for the RWC. Which imho would be the worst possible outcome, again having a strapped together passenger as captain on the field, just like 2015 and 2019. Though to be fair, 2019 went fairly well nonetheless...

It's a big dilemma. He takes a while to find his groove when he is coming back from injury, so without playing in the RWC I'd be worried about the form he would bring.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:02 am

boere wors wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 7:59 am I see it is possible that Kolisi recovers just in time for the RWC. Which imho would be the worst possible outcome, again having a strapped together passenger as captain on the field, just like 2015 and 2019. Though to be fair, 2019 went fairly well nonetheless...

It's a big dilemma. He takes a while to find his groove when he is coming back from injury, so without playing in the RWC I'd be worried about the form he would bring.

TRC you wanted to write. Absolutely, not good.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:02 am

boere wors wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 7:59 am I see it is possible that Kolisi recovers just in time for the RWC. Which imho would be the worst possible outcome, again having a strapped together passenger as captain on the field, just like 2015 and 2019. Though to be fair, 2019 went fairly well nonetheless...

It's a big dilemma. He takes a while to find his groove when he is coming back from injury, so without playing in the RWC I'd be worried about the form he would bring.

Remember when an aged and out of form Jean De Villiers led us to a loss against Japan

Sards wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:31 am

assfly wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:02 am

boere wors wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 7:59 am I see it is possible that Kolisi recovers just in time for the RWC. Which imho would be the worst possible outcome, again having a strapped together passenger as captain on the field, just like 2015 and 2019. Though to be fair, 2019 went fairly well nonetheless...

It's a big dilemma. He takes a while to find his groove when he is coming back from injury, so without playing in the RWC I'd be worried about the form he would bring.

Remember when an aged and out of form Jean De Villiers led us to a loss against Japan

But remember, he made a thrilling tv series prior to the rwc about his rehabilitation

Sards wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:31 am

assfly wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:02 am

boere wors wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 7:59 am I see it is possible that Kolisi recovers just in time for the RWC. Which imho would be the worst possible outcome, again having a strapped together passenger as captain on the field, just like 2015 and 2019. Though to be fair, 2019 went fairly well nonetheless...

It's a big dilemma. He takes a while to find his groove when he is coming back from injury, so without playing in the RWC I'd be worried about the form he would bring.

Remember when an aged and out of form Jean De Villiers led us to a loss against Japan

Did you really have to bring that up. I mean really have to?

SA were winning until Lambie got subbed

boere wors wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 10:43 am

Sards wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:31 am

assfly wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 8:02 am

It's a big dilemma. He takes a while to find his groove when he is coming back from injury, so without playing in the RWC I'd be worried about the form he would bring.

Remember when an aged and out of form Jean De Villiers led us to a loss against Japan

But remember, he made a thrilling tv series prior to the rwc about his rehabilitation

Thats pretty much Kolisi like.

Kolisi has been sensational in defense for the Boks and is amongst the best in the World. If anyone thinks the Boks will be better without him than they are deluded. The 3 players Boks can't do without are Marx, Etzebeth and Kolisi

Masterji wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 10:49 pm Kolisi has been sensational in defense for the Boks and is amongst the best in the World. If anyone thinks the Boks will be better without him than they are deluded. The 3 players Boks can't do without are Marx, Etzebeth and Kolisi

Kolisi captaincy is his biggest asset. He has never been a specialist 6 flanker, more a 7. If you think we don't have depth in flankers, you are deluded.

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 4:52 am

Masterji wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 10:49 pm Kolisi has been sensational in defense for the Boks and is amongst the best in the World. If anyone thinks the Boks will be better without him than they are deluded. The 3 players Boks can't do without are Marx, Etzebeth and Kolisi

Kolisi captaincy is his biggest asset. He has never been a specialist 6 flanker, more a 7. If you think we don't have depth in flankers, you are deluded.

Think so too. His captaincy will be missed, especially the off field stuff, handling the media and so on. On field the leadership group is solid and as an openside he can be replaced.
Marx is a match winner but we can do without him. Eben on the other hand is the one player we cant really afford to lose imo

boere wors wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 5:39 am

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 4:52 am

Masterji wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 10:49 pm Kolisi has been sensational in defense for the Boks and is amongst the best in the World. If anyone thinks the Boks will be better without him than they are deluded. The 3 players Boks can't do without are Marx, Etzebeth and Kolisi

Kolisi captaincy is his biggest asset. He has never been a specialist 6 flanker, more a 7. If you think we don't have depth in flankers, you are deluded.

Think so too. His captaincy will be missed, especially the off field stuff, handling the media and so on. On field the leadership group is solid and as an openside he can be replaced.
Marx is a match winner but we can do without him. Eben on the other hand is the one player we cant really afford to lose imo

We can't do without Marx. They're going to select Dweba at hooker no.3 Imagine going into the final 20 minutes of a knockout match with him trying to hit his locks!

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 4:52 am

Masterji wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 10:49 pm Kolisi has been sensational in defense for the Boks and is amongst the best in the World. If anyone thinks the Boks will be better without him than they are deluded. The 3 players Boks can't do without are Marx, Etzebeth and Kolisi

Kolisi captaincy is his biggest asset. He has never been a specialist 6 flanker, more a 7. If you think we don't have depth in flankers, you are deluded.

I have seen all the Bok tests since the last World Cup and he had a little dip but in more recent times he has been sensational especially in the big games against the likes of ABs and England. He is incredibly powerful in the tackle, hardly misses a tackle and most of the time, dominant in the tackle.

Masterji wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 12:53 pm

OomStruisbaai wrote: ↑Sat May 06, 2023 4:52 am

Masterji wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 10:49 pm Kolisi has been sensational in defense for the Boks and is amongst the best in the World. If anyone thinks the Boks will be better without him than they are deluded. The 3 players Boks can't do without are Marx, Etzebeth and Kolisi

Kolisi captaincy is his biggest asset. He has never been a specialist 6 flanker, more a 7. If you think we don't have depth in flankers, you are deluded.

I have seen all the Bok tests since the last World Cup and he had a little dip but in more recent times he has been sensational especially in the big games against the likes of ABs and England. He is incredibly powerful in the tackle, hardly misses a tackle and most of the time, dominant in the tackle.

He's a beast in a defensive rucking role. He has a very explosive leg drive. But yes he's a hybrid flanker and has very much improved with age. Sadly I don't think he can recover from knee surgery in time. Kwagga and Deon Fourie to cover his absence imo. Duane on the bench and Jasper starts at 8. Kwagga starts and Fourie covers him. PSDT and Sous are our blindsides. Elrigh backs up the loosies.

Masterji wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2023 10:49 pm Kolisi has been sensational in defense for the Boks and is amongst the best in the World. If anyone thinks the Boks will be better without him than they are deluded. The 3 players Boks can't do without are Marx, Etzebeth and Kolisi

Since the 1/4 final of the RWC, he has been sensational.

Boks in serious trouble at 10 for RWC.

Libbok chokes, badly. Pollard barely getting game time and Morne is ancient. Might as well start Willemse.

Libbok had a cracker of a season but this game will shut up the hype merchants a bit. But the game was lost up front. The pack never dominated. I'd rather have Rob du Preez in the Bok set up than Libbok. He's a better fit with our game.

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 6:40 pm Boks in serious trouble at 10 for RWC.

Libbok chokes, badly. Pollard barely getting game time and Morne is ancient. Might as well start Willemse.

Libbok fucked it up badly, yeah.
I thought I heard Pollard was playing very well. He didnt get game time, really?!

FalseBayFC wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 6:44 pm Libbok had a cracker of a season but this game will shut up the hype merchants a bit. But the game was lost up front. The pack never dominated. I'd rather have Rob du Preez in the Bok set up than Libbok. He's a better fit with our game.

Libbok needs front foot ball and a decent 9. Like you say the forwards were bullied last night and Junkies was poor.

I have watched Rob Du Preez playing for Sale and he has been pretty damn good, however I can't get his Bok debut out of my mind.

boere wors wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 6:45 pm

Sandstorm wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 6:40 pm Boks in serious trouble at 10 for RWC.

Libbok chokes, badly. Pollard barely getting game time and Morne is ancient. Might as well start Willemse.

Libbok fucked it up badly, yeah.
I thought I heard Pollard was playing very well. He didnt get game time, really?!

Pollard was on fire.
Now he is injured

SPRINGBOK TRAINING SQUAD:

Props: Thomas du Toit (Cell C Sharks), Steven Kitshoff (DHL Stormers), Frans Malherbe (DHL Stormers), Ox Nche (Cell C Sharks).

Hookers: Joseph Dweba (DHL Stormers), Malcom Marx (Kubota Spears), Bongi Mbonambi (Cell C Sharks).

Locks: Lood de Jager (Wild Knights), Eben Etzebeth (Cell C Sharks), Marvin Orie (DHL Stormers), RG Snyman (Munster).

Loose forwards: Pieter-Steph du Toit (Toyota Verblitz), Siya Kolisi (Cell C Sharks), Evan Roos (DHL Stormers), Kwagga Smith (Shizuoka Blue Revs), Marco van Staden (Vodacom Bulls), Duane Vermeulen (Ulster).

Utility Forwards: Deon Fourie (DHL Stormers), Franco Mostert (Honda Heat).

Scrumhalves: Faf de Klerk (Canon Eagles), Jaden Hendrikse (Cell C Sharks), Herschel Jantjies (DHL Stormers), Cobus Reinach (Montpellier), Grant Williams (Cell C Sharks).

Flyhalves: Manie Libbok (DHL Stormers), Damian Willemse (DHL Stormers).

Centres: Lukhanyo Am (Cell C Sharks), Damian de Allende (Wild Knights), Jesse Kriel (Canon Eagles).

Outside Backs: Kurt-Lee Arendse (Vodacom Bulls), Willie le Roux (Toyota Verblitz), Makazole Mapimpi (Cell C Sharks), Canan Moodie (Vodacom Bulls).

Bok captain Siya Kolisi, lock Eben Etzebeth, scrumhalf Jaden Hendrikse and prop Thomas du Toit, who will continue working with the Bok medical team at the camp.

All the Sharks players are injured?

Surely Vermeulen won't make the final squad, will he?

Great player and all as he was, but he's looked shot for the last couple of years for Ulster and the Boks.

Jim Lahey wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 3:40 pm Surely Vermeulen won't make the final squad, will he?

Great player and all as he was, but he's looked shot for the last couple of years for Ulster and the Boks.

Surely he is one of the first names on Rassnabers team sheet. Maybe not because of his form, but still.

Jim Lahey wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 3:40 pm Surely Vermeulen won't make the final squad, will he?

Great player and all as he was, but he's looked shot for the last couple of years for Ulster and the Boks.

Vermeulen will be there mostly in a mentor role, similar to Schalck Brits in the previous WC.

average joe wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 5:47 am Vermeulen will be there mostly in a mentor role, similar to Schalck Brits in the previous WC.

I'm ok with that, but we can't have him and Deon Fourie doing the same thing.

Anyway, I expect the squad to change quite a bit before the final one. We're definitely going to pick up some injuries, and we need to use the RC to trial some new combinations.

I'm not thrilled to see Jesse Kriel ahead of Andre Esterhuizen though.