2023 Six Nations

[Paddington Bear]

In all seriousness there is still a chance. Our injury list is now shits again. Ringer up and talking so.at least he will play

One thing is for certain - if Ireland had just had 50 put past them and England were going for a grand slam, we would lose on Saturday

[Tichtheid]

Up to 40 mins. Starting shovelling the ball a bit then. I am.confused why they didn't play the same way in the second d half but Gregor said they were fatigued.

During first half, I had a hunch that Scotland wouldn't be able to keep that pace up.

We just aren't that side. I am not sure we ever will be the side who can put 80min in at that intensity when the other side can absorb it for the 1st half and give you it back.

Once the intensity drops there is no way to beat a side like us as organised and professional as Ireland.

It's the next step for Scotland, keeping up playing at that level and being able to execute after an energy-sapping hour of play, all the best sides have made that step up to that intensity, it the question is about the possibility of Scotland taking that step, I don't see it as outside the bounds of possibility.

The problem we have is the drop off from our starters up front, particularly in the front row but also to a lesser extent in the rest of the pack.
I don't understand why Cherry isn't getting a look in, his throwing is the best we've got, I hope he gets a bench spot next week.

We need a bounce back performance against Italy, full throttle for 80 minutes, but controlled full throttle.

[fishfoodie]

In all seriousness there is still a chance. Our injury list is now shits again. Ringer up and talking so.at least he will play

More like; Up & mumbling. He probably also looks like the Elephant man at the moment if he did break his jaw in that collision.

[Hellraiser]

# Team Points
1 Ireland 91.82 (+0.49)
2 France 90.47 (+1.00)
3 New Zealand 88.98
4 South Africa 88.97
5 Scotland 82.77 (-0.49)
6 England 82.12 (-1.00)
7 Australia 81.80
8 Argentina 80.72
9 (↑10) Wales 78.08 (+1.19)
10 (↓9) Japan 77.39
11 Samoa 76.03
12 Georgia 75.94
13 (↑14) Fiji 74.84
14 (↓13) Italy 74.63 (-1.19)
15 Tonga 71.21

[Sandstorm]

# Team Points
1 Ireland 91.82 (+0.49)
2 France 90.47 (+1.00)
3 New Zealand 88.98
4 South Africa 88.97
5 Scotland 82.77 (-0.49)
6 England 82.12 (-1.00)
7 Australia 81.80
8 Argentina 80.72
9 (↑10) Wales 78.08 (+1.19)
10 (↓9) Japan 77.39
11 Samoa 76.03
12 Georgia 75.94
13 (↑14) Fiji 74.84
14 (↓13) Italy 74.63 (-1.19)
15 Tonga 71.21

Less than 3 points cover the top 4. Closest I can remember in a RWC year.

[CM11]

# Team Points
1 Ireland 91.82 (+0.49)
2 France 90.47 (+1.00)
3 New Zealand 88.98
4 South Africa 88.97
5 Scotland 82.77 (-0.49)
6 England 82.12 (-1.00)
7 Australia 81.80
8 Argentina 80.72
9 (↑10) Wales 78.08 (+1.19)
10 (↓9) Japan 77.39
11 Samoa 76.03
12 Georgia 75.94
13 (↑14) Fiji 74.84
14 (↓13) Italy 74.63 (-1.19)
15 Tonga 71.21

Less than 3 points cover the top 4. Closest I can remember in a RWC year.

The top spot changed four or five times in the week leading up to the last WC. Just over 2 points separated the top 5 with Ireland top (very briefly!).

[CM11]

Van de Vlier throws better than any hooker in the 6N. Talented wanker can fuck off and all.

He probably has a single digit handicap as well. The cunt.

“Josh throwing in, well what can’t he do? He took up golf three years ago and he’s in single figures on his handicap!

[fishfoodie]

Van de Vlier throws better than any hooker in the 6N. Talented wanker can fuck off and all.

He probably has a single digit handicap as well. The cunt.

“Josh throwing in, well what can’t he do? He took up golf three years ago and he’s in single figures on his handicap!

He probably plays left handed too the prick

[fishfoodie]

Really hope Sexton doesn't go the, easy, BOD route of punditry, & instead does what ROG did & heads overseas to learn the coaching craft.

[Tichtheid]

John Barclay made an interesting point after the game, saying that he would be surprised if Ireland's preparations hadn't included the eventuality that both hooker were off the park and vdFlier would have been practising lineout throwing. Jamie Ritchie did it for Edinburgh (successfully).

These teams will be making all sorts of emergency planning, the bit that pisses me off is that I just know Ireland would have threatened the Scottish throw much more if the shoe was on the other foot.

[Tichtheid]

They are making a bit of a fuss about the lineout there in that video, and whilst our laws can be arcane, it is what it is, it's not about who gains advantage, you can't take a quick throw with a different ball, end of, and they are mistaken in that the lineout wasn't set. If we'd gone the length and scored it would have been rightly chalked off.

I don't want to go down this route, and I appreciate that is Irish journalists picking up on that, but there were quite a few squint throws from Ireland that weren't picked up. I'm not going to get into a insanely detailed critique of referee decisions, I thought the officials were fine, mistakes were made, from them and from the players, it happens.

[CM11]

Really hope Sexton doesn't go the, easy, BOD route of punditry, & instead does what ROG did & heads overseas to learn the coaching craft.

Won't watch all of that but is the point that Sexton is as bland as BOD?

Anyway, he said he's stepping away from rugby earlier in the week but we'll see if it pans out like that. Think if he comes back it'll definitely be coaching.

[fishfoodie]

John Barclay made an interesting point after the game, saying that he would be surprised if Ireland's preparations hadn't included the eventuality that both hooker were off the park and vdFlier would have been practising lineout throwing. Jamie Ritchie did it for Edinburgh (successfully).

These teams will be making all sorts of emergency planning, the bit that pisses me off is that I just know Ireland would have threatened the Scottish throw much more if the shoe was on the other foot.

Just watching another interview with Cian, & he said there was no big panic, & they just did a bit more coaching, with him, & everyone already knew the calls, so it was just a case of him knowing where he needed to be, & apparently JVdF loves to do the throws already

[CM11]

Have to say, VDF's technique wasn't half bad. Even the long one we lost was a decent throw, no loopiness at all, just a timing issue

[Tichtheid]

John Barclay made an interesting point after the game, saying that he would be surprised if Ireland's preparations hadn't included the eventuality that both hooker were off the park and vdFlier would have been practising lineout throwing. Jamie Ritchie did it for Edinburgh (successfully).

These teams will be making all sorts of emergency planning, the bit that pisses me off is that I just know Ireland would have threatened the Scottish throw much more if the shoe was on the other foot.

Just watching another interview with Cian, & he said there was no big panic, & they just did a bit more coaching, with him, & everyone already knew the calls, so it was just a case of him knowing where he needed to be, & apparently JVdF loves to do the throws already

Richie Gray was a big loss for us today - if you put a six foot ten guy at the very front of the lineout, the throw becomes a very different proposition for a non-specialist.

Ifs and buts, eh?

[fishfoodie]

John Barclay made an interesting point after the game, saying that he would be surprised if Ireland's preparations hadn't included the eventuality that both hooker were off the park and vdFlier would have been practising lineout throwing. Jamie Ritchie did it for Edinburgh (successfully).

These teams will be making all sorts of emergency planning, the bit that pisses me off is that I just know Ireland would have threatened the Scottish throw much more if the shoe was on the other foot.

Just watching another interview with Cian, & he said there was no big panic, & they just did a bit more coaching, with him, & everyone already knew the calls, so it was just a case of him knowing where he needed to be, & apparently JVdF loves to do the throws already

Richie Gray was a big loss for us today - if you put a six foot ten guy at the very front of the lineout, the throw becomes a very different proposition for a non-specialist.

Ifs and buts, eh?

Yep !

As Warburton said in comms, if Scotland had loaded the front of the lineout, & stressed the hooker, they might have made the lineouts a real attacking threat for Scotland.

[CM11]

Just reading that VDF is Leinster's backup thrower for sin bin situations where you might not have to replace your hooker. So he's practised there a fair bit. I reckon if Scotland had loaded the front, he'd have found the middle. It's probably why he went long for one throw too. To show he could throw properly (lost due to timing more than throw). I remember SOB was Leinster's backup years ago too but I have to say VDF's technique was far better.

[Tichtheid]

With Finn hirpling off and Kinghorn taking a knock, there is talk of Ben Healy making his debut for Scotland next week.

[Camroc2]

With Finn hirpling off and Kinghorn taking a knock, there is talk of Ben Healy making his debut for Scotland next week.

Was Russell 100% fit to begin with ?

No linebreaks, and lots of shovelling on lateral ball.

Genuine question.

[laurent]

With Finn hirpling off and Kinghorn taking a knock, there is talk of Ben Healy making his debut for Scotland next week.

Was Russell 100% fit to begin with ?

No linebreaks, and lots of shovelling on lateral ball.

Genuine question.

probably thought he was playing for Racing

[Tichtheid]

With Finn hirpling off and Kinghorn taking a knock, there is talk of Ben Healy making his debut for Scotland next week.

Was Russell 100% fit to begin with ?

No linebreaks, and lots of shovelling on lateral ball.

Genuine question.

He didn’t look fit, no.
With Adam Hastings injured and Blair Kinghorn having been playing fly half for all of 18 months, the next cab off the rank for us is Ben Healy

Depth, or lack of it, is one of the reasons we are not able to keep up the highest level of quality and intensity in test matches like yesterday

[sefton]

Well done Ireland. Remarkable ability to absorb all that pressure and suffer all those injuries so early on. Far from the best performance as a result, but a very professional one in the end.

Scotland... will they get a better chance at the Triple Crown? A few players got badly exposed today and they crumbled a fair bit in the 2nd half.

I think we might see a bigger crumbling in Dublin next Saturday….

Ireland being raging hot favourites might suit this England team just fine.

I’m for a late foot and mouth outbreak.

[C69]

Just reading that VDF is Leinster's backup thrower for sin bin situations where you might not have to replace your hooker. So he's practised there a fair bit. I reckon if Scotland had loaded the front, he'd have found the middle. It's probably why he went long for one throw too. To show he could throw properly (lost due to timing more than throw). I remember SOB was Leinster's backup years ago too but I have to say VDF's technique was far better.

Everyone of his throws was squint and the lack of a brake foot in the scrum should have been penalised every time.
But hey thems the breaks.
Ireland are the new NZ where officiating is concerned.
A green cloak of invisibility.

However not loading the front with their tallest forwards was retarded by Scotland it made VDFs job easy.
You rarely get pinged for a squint front ball take.

[Slick]

Obviously always a bit depressing to lose, but really that was just the reality of where we are - Ireland are very deservedly number 1 and have a team that have been through all the bumps in the road together and come out of it. We are probably 3rd best team in the 6N and that's how it will probably finish - bit annoying to have the 1st and 2nd in the world in the comp for the first time ever.

In the backs I thought our centres outplayed theirs quite convincingly, full backs and 9's much the same, their wingers were leagues above ours. I found 10 quite interesting. Finn was obviously playing with an injury and just couldn't get his game going, but did OK. I've seen Sexton getting some shit for wandering around and not being as involved as he could be, but every single big moment he nailed it. Those touchline conversions were so important in the context of the game - the first put them 2 scores ahead which seemed ominous, and the second put them 3 ahead and game was over. Both will have really got Scotland's heads down under the posts.

Thought we defended pretty well overall. When you see an Irish ruck in or around the try line it's usually time to go for a piss as a score is inevitable, but we repulsed quite a few which was pleasing. Not pressurising the lineout when the 2 hookers went off was just insane, I don't understand how a top team, with a top coaching set up, doesn't do that. Disrupt a couple early on and it would have had a massive impact I think. Then again our lineout was pretty shite all day.

I did think Ireland got away with a lot more, as usual, but that's always been part of the game and they are very good at it.

But all in all, this 6N has been great so far and up until now has been a pretty fair reflection on where we all are.

[Lobby]

Obviously always a bit depressing to lose, but really that was just the reality of where we are - Ireland are very deservedly number 1 and have a team that have been through all the bumps in the road together and come out of it. We are probably 3rd best team in the 6N and that's how it will probably finish - bit annoying to have the 1st and 2nd in the world in the comp for the first time ever.

In the backs I thought our centres outplayed theirs quite convincingly, full backs and 9's much the same, their wingers were leagues above ours. I found 10 quite interesting. Finn was obviously playing with an injury and just couldn't get his game going, but did OK. I've seen Sexton getting some shit for wandering around and not being as involved as he could be, but every single big moment he nailed it. Those touchline conversions were so important in the context of the game - the first put them 2 scores ahead which seemed ominous, and the second put them 3 ahead and game was over. Both will have really got Scotland's heads down under the posts.

Thought we defended pretty well overall. When you see an Irish ruck in or around the try line it's usually time to go for a piss as a score is inevitable, but we repulsed quite a few which was pleasing. Not pressurising the lineout when the 2 hookers went off was just insane, I don't understand how a top team, with a top coaching set up, doesn't do that. Disrupt a couple early on and it would have had a massive impact I think. Then again our lineout was pretty shite all day.

I did think Ireland got away with a lot more, as usual, but that's always been part of the game and they are very good at it.

But all in all, this 6N has been great so far and up until now has been a pretty fair reflection on where we all are.

I thought White was much better at 9 than Murray, who was very slow. Gibson-Park made a big difference for Ireland when he came on. For Scotland, Price was a step down from White. Keenan was miles better than Hogg.

Scotland were also fortunate not to have VdM and Ritchie yellow carded. In both cases if Ireland hadn't scored, they would have been off for 10 minutes.

[C69]

Just reading that VDF is Leinster's backup thrower for sin bin situations where you might not have to replace your hooker. So he's practised there a fair bit. I reckon if Scotland had loaded the front, he'd have found the middle. It's probably why he went long for one throw too. To show he could throw properly (lost due to timing more than throw). I remember SOB was Leinster's backup years ago too but I have to say VDF's technique was far better.

Everyone of his throws was squint and the lack of a brake foot in the scrum should have been penalised every time.
But hey thems the breaks.
Ireland are the new NZ where officiating is concerned.
A green cloak of invisibility.

However not loading the front with their tallest forwards was retarded by Scotland it made VDFs job easy.
You rarely get pinged for a squint front ball take.

That's not true re his throwing. How very Tory to just make something up and try and get it to stick. Really worrying the depths Welsh rugby is now plumbing thankfully counterbalanced by VdF's Christianity

Revisionist nonsense, I even freeze framed every throw such is the vociferous nature of my interrogation of the matter. Oh and he should have been pinged.
That said so should have the Scots throws.
The passing of the ball to the second rows when Healy came on made a mockery of the laws
I wept out loud and was over taken by an involuntary wailing and gnashing of teeth by the injustice of it all.

ER you are at this point worse than Goebbels with your revisionism.
Have you thought of moving to the USA and getting a job with the GOP or Q Anon?
So sad to see such a respected poster go down the rabbit hole.

[C69]

This is like 1930's Germany and Italy and Japan

Your empathy for those regimes is clear and unfortunately might I add.
A modern day Charles Bewley.


Too far?

[Slick]

Obviously always a bit depressing to lose, but really that was just the reality of where we are - Ireland are very deservedly number 1 and have a team that have been through all the bumps in the road together and come out of it. We are probably 3rd best team in the 6N and that's how it will probably finish - bit annoying to have the 1st and 2nd in the world in the comp for the first time ever.

In the backs I thought our centres outplayed theirs quite convincingly, full backs and 9's much the same, their wingers were leagues above ours. I found 10 quite interesting. Finn was obviously playing with an injury and just couldn't get his game going, but did OK. I've seen Sexton getting some shit for wandering around and not being as involved as he could be, but every single big moment he nailed it. Those touchline conversions were so important in the context of the game - the first put them 2 scores ahead which seemed ominous, and the second put them 3 ahead and game was over. Both will have really got Scotland's heads down under the posts.

Thought we defended pretty well overall. When you see an Irish ruck in or around the try line it's usually time to go for a piss as a score is inevitable, but we repulsed quite a few which was pleasing. Not pressurising the lineout when the 2 hookers went off was just insane, I don't understand how a top team, with a top coaching set up, doesn't do that. Disrupt a couple early on and it would have had a massive impact I think. Then again our lineout was pretty shite all day.

I did think Ireland got away with a lot more, as usual, but that's always been part of the game and they are very good at it.

But all in all, this 6N has been great so far and up until now has been a pretty fair reflection on where we all are.

I thought White was much better at 9 than Murray, who was very slow. Gibson-Park made a big difference for Ireland when he came on. For Scotland, Price was a step down from White. Keenan was miles better than Hogg.

Scotland were also fortunate not to have VdM and Ritchie yellow carded. In both cases if Ireland hadn't scored, they would have been off for 10 minutes.

Fair enough. I was at the game and haven't seen any of it on TV

[Lobby]

Everyone of his throws was squint and the lack of a brake foot in the scrum should have been penalised every time.
But hey thems the breaks.
Ireland are the new NZ where officiating is concerned.
A green cloak of invisibility.

However not loading the front with their tallest forwards was retarded by Scotland it made VDFs job easy.
You rarely get pinged for a squint front ball take.

That's not true re his throwing. How very Tory to just make something up and try and get it to stick. Really worrying the depths Welsh rugby is now plumbing thankfully counterbalanced by VdF's Christianity

Revisionist nonsense, I even freeze framed every throw such is the vociferous nature of my interrogation of the matter. Oh and he should have been pinged.
That said so should have the Scots throws.
The passing of the ball to the second rows when Healy came on made a mockery of the laws
I wept out loud and was over taken by an involuntary wailing and gnashing of teeth by the injustice of it all.

ER you are at this point worse than Goebbels with your revisionism.
Have you thought of moving to the USA and getting a job with the GOP or Q Anon?
So sad to see such a respected poster go down the rabbit hole.

The most ridiculous scrum put-in came from Scotland just after their scrum had been penalised and Healy forgot to tap the ball. In the ensuing scrum Price didn't even pretend to put the ball in straight, he simply threw it through the props legs and then immediately picked it up as squirted out of the side of the scrum next to him.

[Slick]

Everyone of his throws was squint and the lack of a brake foot in the scrum should have been penalised every time.
But hey thems the breaks.
Ireland are the new NZ where officiating is concerned.
A green cloak of invisibility.

However not loading the front with their tallest forwards was retarded by Scotland it made VDFs job easy.
You rarely get pinged for a squint front ball take.

That's not true re his throwing. How very Tory to just make something up and try and get it to stick. Really worrying the depths Welsh rugby is now plumbing thankfully counterbalanced by VdF's Christianity

Revisionist nonsense, I even freeze framed every throw such is the vociferous nature of my interrogation of the matter. Oh and he should have been pinged.
That said so should have the Scots throws.
The passing of the ball to the second rows when Healy came on made a mockery of the laws
I wept out loud and was over taken by an involuntary wailing and gnashing of teeth by the injustice of it all.

ER you are at this point worse than Goebbels with your revisionism.
Have you thought of moving to the USA and getting a job with the GOP or Q Anon?
So sad to see such a respected poster go down the rabbit hole.

I'd say you speak for us all. Even the Irish if they are honest

[Torquemada 1420]

Did you just write a critical post about Scotland, and not once mention Russell?

He made no glaring errors. OTTOMH, 1 aimless grubber kick to the right corner early on and was he offside for the tackle that conceded the pen under the posts? But that pen was probably a good one to concede. He was clearly at the centre of Sco's high tempo attempts to destructure the game which, in the end, did not work. So, he did his job. My only criticism would be he did seem to do a lot of lateral running.

[Torquemada 1420]

Call it sticking in the boot if you want but Hogg was pretty poor. Russell was fine I thought.

Yes. Agree. Made me think they'd be better giving Kinghorn a shot there.

[Torquemada 1420]

I think we might see a bigger crumbling in Dublin next Saturday….

Rugby rarely works out that way. Much talk of Wales facing the same prospect but I suspect neither games will result in such blowout margins.

[Biffer]

Obviously always a bit depressing to lose, but really that was just the reality of where we are - Ireland are very deservedly number 1 and have a team that have been through all the bumps in the road together and come out of it. We are probably 3rd best team in the 6N and that's how it will probably finish - bit annoying to have the 1st and 2nd in the world in the comp for the first time ever.

In the backs I thought our centres outplayed theirs quite convincingly, full backs and 9's much the same, their wingers were leagues above ours. I found 10 quite interesting. Finn was obviously playing with an injury and just couldn't get his game going, but did OK. I've seen Sexton getting some shit for wandering around and not being as involved as he could be, but every single big moment he nailed it. Those touchline conversions were so important in the context of the game - the first put them 2 scores ahead which seemed ominous, and the second put them 3 ahead and game was over. Both will have really got Scotland's heads down under the posts.

Thought we defended pretty well overall. When you see an Irish ruck in or around the try line it's usually time to go for a piss as a score is inevitable, but we repulsed quite a few which was pleasing. Not pressurising the lineout when the 2 hookers went off was just insane, I don't understand how a top team, with a top coaching set up, doesn't do that. Disrupt a couple early on and it would have had a massive impact I think. Then again our lineout was pretty shite all day.

I did think Ireland got away with a lot more, as usual, but that's always been part of the game and they are very good at it.

But all in all, this 6N has been great so far and up until now has been a pretty fair reflection on where we all are.

In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king. Ireland were bummed by the ref but never mind

So Ireland weren't permanently offside and lying all over tge ball at every breakdown? And allowed to take as long as they liked at lineouts despite Scotland getting warned on their first throw?

[Biffer]

That's not true re his throwing. How very Tory to just make something up and try and get it to stick. Really worrying the depths Welsh rugby is now plumbing thankfully counterbalanced by VdF's Christianity

Revisionist nonsense, I even freeze framed every throw such is the vociferous nature of my interrogation of the matter. Oh and he should have been pinged.
That said so should have the Scots throws.
The passing of the ball to the second rows when Healy came on made a mockery of the laws
I wept out loud and was over taken by an involuntary wailing and gnashing of teeth by the injustice of it all.

ER you are at this point worse than Goebbels with your revisionism.
Have you thought of moving to the USA and getting a job with the GOP or Q Anon?
So sad to see such a respected poster go down the rabbit hole.

The most ridiculous scrum put-in came from Scotland just after their scrum had been penalised and Healy forgot to tap the ball. In the ensuing scrum Price didn't even pretend to put the ball in straight, he simply threw it through the props legs and then immediately picked it up as squirted out of the side of the scrum next to him.

Because he'd seen the irish had been doing it for twenty minutes and the ref didnt give a toss.

[Biffer]

In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king. Ireland were bummed by the ref but never mind

So Ireland weren't permanently offside and lying all over tge ball at every breakdown? And allowed to take as long as they liked at lineouts despite Scotland getting warned on their first throw?

No they weren't. Scotland on the other hand started a new game were you could run around a ruck slap at the ball and then ask the ref if that was alright while retreating amd holding your hands up as if in a 1920s cops and robbers extravaganza. Another element of this new game was to repeatedly and blatantly infringe when the other team were about to score under the posts so they could stop Jonny going clear in the all time scorers list. Look I like this new game but think it needs some structure

Well we can dispute some of the penalties but if you think repeated infringements at the goal line is new you haven’t been watching rugby long, so welcome to the sport.

And Ireland have done that, many, many times.

And Ireland were lying all over the ball all day.

[C69]

I feel this is my Banshee moment with ER.
I am obviously the sexy brooding Farrell to his fat gnarled old miserable Gleeson.

So sad

[JM2K6]

So Ireland weren't permanently offside and lying all over tge ball at every breakdown? And allowed to take as long as they liked at lineouts despite Scotland getting warned on their first throw?

No they weren't. Scotland on the other hand started a new game were you could run around a ruck slap at the ball and then ask the ref if that was alright while retreating amd holding your hands up as if in a 1920s cops and robbers extravaganza. Another element of this new game was to repeatedly and blatantly infringe when the other team were about to score under the posts so they could stop Jonny going clear in the all time scorers list. Look I like this new game but think it needs some structure

Well we can dispute some of the penalties but if you think repeated infringements at the goal line is new you haven’t been watching rugby long, so welcome to the sport.

And Ireland have done that, many, many times.

And Ireland were lying all over the ball all day.

Cannot believe you are falling for his schtick, honestly

[Hal Jordan]

I feel this is my Banshee moment with ER.
I am obviously the sexy brooding Farrell to his fat gnarled old miserable Gleeson.

So sad

I think you two should just shag each other and get it out of your systems.

[TheFrog]

So Ireland weren't permanently offside and lying all over tge ball at every breakdown? And allowed to take as long as they liked at lineouts despite Scotland getting warned on their first throw?

That is the one thing that bugs me with the way Ireland are managed by the refs. There is a high level of tolerance for players being sluggish to roll away, which kills all momentum for the attack. Yet, because Ireland go for the choke tackle, the tackler(s) often end up flopping on the attacking side, and take forever to roll away.