NPR

C69 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 12:46 pm I feel this is my Banshee moment with ER.
I am obviously the sexy brooding Farrell to his fat gnarled old miserable Gleeson.

So sad

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 6:37 pm Ref had a good game overall. My only issue was walking us back 10 because Ritchie apparently told him Ireland were off their feet. Assuming he didn’t say anything ruder than that, surely the captain is allowed to say things like this? OTOH, he warned the Irish lad about telling him to give a YC, which is something I detest.

Yes, he let a lot of stuff go, but all refs have things they will tolerate and things they won’t, and I don’t think he favoured one side over the other.

Lobby wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 6:47 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 6:37 pm Ref had a good game overall. My only issue was walking us back 10 because Ritchie apparently told him Ireland were off their feet. Assuming he didn’t say anything ruder than that, surely the captain is allowed to say things like this? OTOH, he warned the Irish lad about telling him to give a YC, which is something I detest.

Yes, he let a lot of stuff go, but all refs have things they will tolerate and things they won’t, and I don’t think he favoured one side over the other.

He marched him back because Ritchie shouted his disagreement with the penalty decision directly at the ref. The way to do it is to ask the ref for a discussion, suggest to him that the Irish keep going off their feet and then ask him to look out for this at the next tackle situation, not wave your hands in the air and complain that the ref’s decision is wrong.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:06 pm

Lobby wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 6:47 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 6:37 pm Ref had a good game overall. My only issue was walking us back 10 because Ritchie apparently told him Ireland were off their feet. Assuming he didn’t say anything ruder than that, surely the captain is allowed to say things like this? OTOH, he warned the Irish lad about telling him to give a YC, which is something I detest.

Yes, he let a lot of stuff go, but all refs have things they will tolerate and things they won’t, and I don’t think he favoured one side over the other.

He marched him back because Ritchie shouted his disagreement with the penalty decision directly at the ref. The way to do it is to ask the ref for a discussion, suggest to him that the Irish keep going off their feet and then ask him to look out for this at the next tackle situation, not wave your hands in the air and complain that the ref’s decision is wrong.

Fair enough - if you wanted a masterclass in how to play the ref, you’d ask the Irish

Slightly more seriously, Ritchie is early in his captaincy and will learn the softer approach.

TheFrog wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:57 pm

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 7:51 am

TheFrog wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:57 pm

Are you accusing him of nose candy? Or??

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 7:51 am

TheFrog wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:57 pm

Are you accusing him of nose candy? Or??

inactionman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:37 am Those glasses are really growing on me.

Not quite specs, not quite sunglasses, not quite goggles.

inactionman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:37 am Those glasses are really growing on me.

Not quite specs, not quite sunglasses, not quite goggles.

Jim Lahey wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 6:30 am

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:06 pm

Lobby wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 6:47 pm

He marched him back because Ritchie shouted his disagreement with the penalty decision directly at the ref. The way to do it is to ask the ref for a discussion, suggest to him that the Irish keep going off their feet and then ask him to look out for this at the next tackle situation, not wave your hands in the air and complain that the ref’s decision is wrong.

Fair enough - if you wanted a masterclass in how to play the ref, you’d ask the Irish

Slightly more seriously, Ritchie is early in his captaincy and will learn the softer approach.

I feel like I've seen him marched back for mouthing off a good number of times. He's a good player but if he isn't communicating with refs well, then he might not have the temperment to be an international captain.

laurent wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:34 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 7:51 am

TheFrog wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:57 pm

Are you accusing him of nose candy? Or??

Cécile Grès (the journalist) martyrized him and Laporte not long ago , maybe that's the reason .

She is fearless ... (having worked on sidelines in ProD2 before).

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 1:43 pm

laurent wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:34 am

Ymx wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 7:51 am

Are you accusing him of nose candy? Or??

Cécile Grès (the journalist) martyrized him and Laporte not long ago , maybe that's the reason .

She is fearless ... (having worked on sidelines in ProD2 before).

She's no Isabelle though

laurent wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 2:06 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 1:43 pm

laurent wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 10:34 am

Cécile Grès (the journalist) martyrized him and Laporte not long ago , maybe that's the reason .

She is fearless ... (having worked on sidelines in ProD2 before).

She's no Isabelle though

I refuse to choose.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:46 am This is the incident where Ritchie was marched back 10.

He can't really help being six foot four, he didn't shout, he walked towards the referee.

Apparently Luke Pearce apologised to Ritchie afterwards

inactionman wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 10:57 am On the topic of off feet, is it just me or has more been let go in this 6N? Matey there was practically in a headstand and it was let go

CM11 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:05 am This isn't the first time someone has talked about a player being off his feet while only looking at how he finished up. Hansen got his hands on the ball straight away, on his feet. He only ends up the way he does because the player held on.

Refs are letting this pan out more, basically giving a chance for the player on the ground to let go and allowing the defender go off his feet if they're initially latched on their feet because they're trying to keep the game moving. Scottish player lets go there and Hansen comes away with the ball is far preferable to whistling for a penalty and there were certainly other incidents in the game where that's exactly what happened.

CM11 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:05 am This isn't the first time someone has talked about a player being off his feet while only looking at how he finished up. Hansen got his hands on the ball straight away, on his feet. He only ends up the way he does because the player held on.

Refs are letting this pan out more, basically giving a chance for the player on the ground to let go and allowing the defender go off his feet if they're initially latched on their feet because they're trying to keep the game moving. Scottish player lets go there and Hansen comes away with the ball is far preferable to whistling for a penalty and there were certainly other incidents in the game where that's exactly what happened.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:16 am

CM11 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:05 am This isn't the first time someone has talked about a player being off his feet while only looking at how he finished up. Hansen got his hands on the ball straight away, on his feet. He only ends up the way he does because the player held on.

Refs are letting this pan out more, basically giving a chance for the player on the ground to let go and allowing the defender go off his feet if they're initially latched on their feet because they're trying to keep the game moving. Scottish player lets go there and Hansen comes away with the ball is far preferable to whistling for a penalty and there were certainly other incidents in the game where that's exactly what happened.

The law is that the player has to be supporting his own weight, take the ball away and Hansen falls forward onto his face.

inactionman wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:18 am

CM11 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:05 am This isn't the first time someone has talked about a player being off his feet while only looking at how he finished up. Hansen got his hands on the ball straight away, on his feet. He only ends up the way he does because the player held on.

Refs are letting this pan out more, basically giving a chance for the player on the ground to let go and allowing the defender go off his feet if they're initially latched on their feet because they're trying to keep the game moving. Scottish player lets go there and Hansen comes away with the ball is far preferable to whistling for a penalty and there were certainly other incidents in the game where that's exactly what happened.

I can't see a lift when on feet, I can only see him place hands on ball and topple when trying to lift (and then being hit). He ultimately falls forwards.

We've discussed ruck laws to the point of painful nausea on the bored before, but this just seems weird to me - just reach out to place hands on the ball, even if you've not much chance of actually lifting it away whilst staying on feet. We got rid of the dragnet style (hands on floor past the ball and let the clearout drag you back over the ball) and this feels the same to me.

Anyway, it's tedious getting into whether it's on feet or off feet, my main observation is it just seems that this is being allowed more in this 6N than before.

Guy Smiley wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:27 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:16 am

CM11 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:05 am This isn't the first time someone has talked about a player being off his feet while only looking at how he finished up. Hansen got his hands on the ball straight away, on his feet. He only ends up the way he does because the player held on.

Refs are letting this pan out more, basically giving a chance for the player on the ground to let go and allowing the defender go off his feet if they're initially latched on their feet because they're trying to keep the game moving. Scottish player lets go there and Hansen comes away with the ball is far preferable to whistling for a penalty and there were certainly other incidents in the game where that's exactly what happened.

The law is that the player has to be supporting his own weight, take the ball away and Hansen falls forward onto his face.

The crucial change in the way this is ruled now came about sometime over the last year and a half. The tackled player must release immediately and that has done away with that bloody ridiculous place but not place, release but not release charade that went on in every tackle. It's taking me a while to adjust because it looks wrong... but the first defender to get hands on the ball usually is supporting their own weight at the instant of grabbing the ball and that's enough. They go to ground after that, then they have to release.

We got used to seeing players like David Pocock, for example, with the sheer strength to be able to hold their ground on their feet while they 'contested' for the ball. Now, there's no need for that... they've won it as soon as they grab it and it isn't released.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:29 am

inactionman wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:18 am

CM11 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:05 am This isn't the first time someone has talked about a player being off his feet while only looking at how he finished up. Hansen got his hands on the ball straight away, on his feet. He only ends up the way he does because the player held on.

Refs are letting this pan out more, basically giving a chance for the player on the ground to let go and allowing the defender go off his feet if they're initially latched on their feet because they're trying to keep the game moving. Scottish player lets go there and Hansen comes away with the ball is far preferable to whistling for a penalty and there were certainly other incidents in the game where that's exactly what happened.

I can't see a lift when on feet, I can only see him place hands on ball and topple when trying to lift (and then being hit). He ultimately falls forwards.

We've discussed ruck laws to the point of painful nausea on the bored before, but this just seems weird to me - just reach out to place hands on the ball, even if you've not much chance of actually lifting it away whilst staying on feet. We got rid of the dragnet style (hands on floor past the ball and let the clearout drag you back over the ball) and this feels the same to me.

Anyway, it's tedious getting into whether it's on feet or off feet, my main observation is it just seems that this is being allowed more in this 6N than before.

If you'll bear with me for a minute, I won't labour the point beyond this comment, but if you rewind that clip to the very first frame, Hansen's heel is on the line, plain as day. Every part of his body is in front of that. The only reason he doesn't topple forward immediately is because he is kneeling on Fagerson and supporting his weight with his hands on the top of the ball.

It's is physically impossible to support your own weight from the position he is in.

I won't say any more on it.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:29 am

inactionman wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:18 am

CM11 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:05 am This isn't the first time someone has talked about a player being off his feet while only looking at how he finished up. Hansen got his hands on the ball straight away, on his feet. He only ends up the way he does because the player held on.

Refs are letting this pan out more, basically giving a chance for the player on the ground to let go and allowing the defender go off his feet if they're initially latched on their feet because they're trying to keep the game moving. Scottish player lets go there and Hansen comes away with the ball is far preferable to whistling for a penalty and there were certainly other incidents in the game where that's exactly what happened.

I can't see a lift when on feet, I can only see him place hands on ball and topple when trying to lift (and then being hit). He ultimately falls forwards.

We've discussed ruck laws to the point of painful nausea on the bored before, but this just seems weird to me - just reach out to place hands on the ball, even if you've not much chance of actually lifting it away whilst staying on feet. We got rid of the dragnet style (hands on floor past the ball and let the clearout drag you back over the ball) and this feels the same to me.

Anyway, it's tedious getting into whether it's on feet or off feet, my main observation is it just seems that this is being allowed more in this 6N than before.

If you'll bear with me for a minute, I won't labour the point beyond this comment, but if you rewind that clip to the very first frame, Hansen's heel is on the line, plain as day. Every part of his body is in front of that. The only reason he doesn't topple forward immediately is because he is kneeling on Fagerson and supporting his weight with his hands on the top of the ball.

It's is physically impossible to support your own weight from the position he is in.

I won't say any more on it.

CM11 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:34 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:29 am

inactionman wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:18 am

I can't see a lift when on feet, I can only see him place hands on ball and topple when trying to lift (and then being hit). He ultimately falls forwards.

We've discussed ruck laws to the point of painful nausea on the bored before, but this just seems weird to me - just reach out to place hands on the ball, even if you've not much chance of actually lifting it away whilst staying on feet. We got rid of the dragnet style (hands on floor past the ball and let the clearout drag you back over the ball) and this feels the same to me.

Anyway, it's tedious getting into whether it's on feet or off feet, my main observation is it just seems that this is being allowed more in this 6N than before.

If you'll bear with me for a minute, I won't labour the point beyond this comment, but if you rewind that clip to the very first frame, Hansen's heel is on the line, plain as day. Every part of his body is in front of that. The only reason he doesn't topple forward immediately is because he is kneeling on Fagerson and supporting his weight with his hands on the top of the ball.

It's is physically impossible to support your own weight from the position he is in.

I won't say any more on it.

You'd need his arrival. He's already over the ball with his hands on it at the start of the clip.

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:30 am Hansen could have been called either way, personally I see the argument for off feet more than winning the ball.

However, I think Ritchie had been on Pearce's case a bit beforehand, so coming upto him and basically telling him he'd made the wrong call (it wasn't a question, it wasn't a clarification, he straight up told Pearce he was wrong), is an easy way to get marched back.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 12:57 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:30 am Hansen could have been called either way, personally I see the argument for off feet more than winning the ball.

However, I think Ritchie had been on Pearce's case a bit beforehand, so coming upto him and basically telling him he'd made the wrong call (it wasn't a question, it wasn't a clarification, he straight up told Pearce he was wrong), is an easy way to get marched back.

Right. It needs a bit of context and even if he is captain, walking up to complain about the call in the referee's face isn't going to help. Captains get leeway to talk to the ref but it's never intended to be an argument.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 1:01 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 12:57 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 11:30 am Hansen could have been called either way, personally I see the argument for off feet more than winning the ball.

However, I think Ritchie had been on Pearce's case a bit beforehand, so coming upto him and basically telling him he'd made the wrong call (it wasn't a question, it wasn't a clarification, he straight up told Pearce he was wrong), is an easy way to get marched back.

Right. It needs a bit of context and even if he is captain, walking up to complain about the call in the referee's face isn't going to help. Captains get leeway to talk to the ref but it's never intended to be an argument.

If he'd have stayed where he was he'd have needed to shout at Pearce in order to be heard.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:03 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 1:01 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 12:57 pm

Right. It needs a bit of context and even if he is captain, walking up to complain about the call in the referee's face isn't going to help. Captains get leeway to talk to the ref but it's never intended to be an argument.

If he'd have stayed where he was he'd have needed to shout at Pearce in order to be heard.

Yup, those were the two options: shout at the referee to complain about the decision, or walk over and complain about the decision from 6 inches away.

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:59 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:03 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 1:01 pm


If he'd have stayed where he was he'd have needed to shout at Pearce in order to be heard.

Yup, those were the two options: shout at the referee to complain about the decision, or walk over and complain about the decision from 6 inches away.

There was a bit of noise happening around them, you may have heard it, after the penalty is awarded Ritchie walks over to Pearce and says, quite calmly, "He's off his feet, Sir"*. He didn't shout nor did he sound intimidating, it's there on the clip. There is a reason he is the one doing it, it's because he's the captain and as such he is entitled to do so.

He can't be penalised for being the height he is and having to stand close the ref to make himself heard, Shirely?


*it's either "off his feet" or "He's lost his feet, Sir", meaning he wasn't supporting his own weight, which he certainly wasn't.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 4:10 pm

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:59 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 3:03 pm

Yup, those were the two options: shout at the referee to complain about the decision, or walk over and complain about the decision from 6 inches away.

There was a bit of noise happening around them, you may have heard it, after the penalty is awarded Ritchie walks over to Pearce and says, quite calmly, "He's off his feet, Sir"*. He didn't shout nor did he sound intimidating, it's there on the clip. There is a reason he is the one doing it, it's because he's the captain and as such he is entitled to do so.

He can't be penalised for being the height he is and having to stand close the ref to make himself heard, Shirely?


*it's either "off his feet" or "He's lost his feet, Sir", meaning he wasn't supporting his own weight, which he certainly wasn't.

He marches over to the ref and questions his decision having previously pissed him off - I'm not sure what outcome you're expecting. It's far from the worst I've seen but you always run a risk of this if you're on the wrong side of the ref and all you want to tell him is that he's wrong.

It was also a fair decision so let's not start making out it was some travesty - he was on his feet, had his hands on the ball, and had it in the air at the start of the cleanout, before he lost his balance thanks to the guy sitting on the floor pulling him over. You could quibble it wasn't actually holding on and should've been play on, but a) it's clear that throughout that the Scottish player never releases the ball, even after it's been lifted, and b) it's in line with how those have been reffed for the last few years - it's not like the cleanout player didn't go straight to deck and continue to interfere with play...