NPR

TheNatalShark wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:47 pm Wales came back in that game before the red, it should have been fairly wrapped by then, as they were utterly shite.

After the red there was complete and utter panic in defence. Very poorly prepared.

If England snatched a pen at the end of the game last week I would still have been in the Toony out camp. Just too many poor performances to follow up a decent or good one

Yeah, imagine telling your players to go and get an idiot red, what was Toony thinking

Begbie wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:48 pm I really wish England had capped Gary Graham. What a horror show from the bearded twat. I'm ashamed I ever hyped the prick.

I'm sorry I ever doubted Blade Thomson.

Begbie wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:08 pm Ah well, the bad feeling I had all week wasn't wrong. Nice to know I still have my touch.

Fuck off Fagerson you dumb prick.

I have had a lot of disappointments as a Scotland fan over the years, as have we all, but the moment ‘Zander Fagerson has been shown a red card’ popped up on my Twitter feed (I still can’t watch live) is possibly the most gutting moment of the last few years. With a much stronger bench than Wales, I was confident right up to the RC. After that we were always losing. Absolutely fucking gutted.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:50 pm

Begbie wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:48 pm I really wish England had capped Gary Graham. What a horror show from the bearded twat. I'm ashamed I ever hyped the prick.

I'm sorry I ever doubted Blade Thomson.

Same. Graham looked like he'd just been introduced to rugby and didn't really know what he's supposed to be doing.

Begbie wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:51 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:50 pm

Begbie wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:48 pm I really wish England had capped Gary Graham. What a horror show from the bearded twat. I'm ashamed I ever hyped the prick.

I'm sorry I ever doubted Blade Thomson.

Same. Graham looked like he'd just been introduced to rugby and didn't really know what he's supposed to be doing.

Looked like a Welsh sleeper cell. He was the player to get them back into the game.

That’s a fecking red card now? Seriously? Last week’s was a bit soft. That was bloody ludicrous.

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:49 pm After the red there was complete and utter panic in defence. Very poorly prepared.

Yeah, imagine telling your players to go and get an idiot red, what was Toony thinking
[/quote]

Indeed. The contrast between Russell yellow last week, and the level of organisation and confidence present during it, vs a red card and the players are suddenly doing incredibly outnumbered dog leg defensive arrangements was incredible.

So silly of Townsend to to send them out to do that.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:56 pm That’s a fecking red card now? Seriously? Last week’s was a bit soft. That was bloody ludicrous.

For me it was an unquestionable red

TheNatalShark wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:56 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:49 pm After the red there was complete and utter panic in defence. Very poorly prepared.

Yeah, imagine telling your players to go and get an idiot red, what was Toony thinking

Indeed. The contrast between Russell yellow last week, and the level of organisation and confidence present during it, vs a red card and the players are suddenly doing incredibly outnumbered dog leg defensive arrangements was incredible.

So silly of Townsend to to send them out to do that.
[/quote]

I don’t know what you’ve done with the quote there, but anyway.

I think we pride ourselves on keeping this thread sociable so I’m going to walk away, but your original post really annoyed me

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:57 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:56 pm That’s a fecking red card now? Seriously? Last week’s was a bit soft. That was bloody ludicrous.

For me it was an unquestionable red

Shoulder to the head = red. Every. Single. Time.

I just can't get my head around Price kicking that away on 78min. What was he expecting to happen? A line out where they can run down the clock?

I don't get it

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:01 pm I just can't get my head around Price kicking that away on 78min. What was he expecting to happen? A line out where they can run down the clock?

I don't get it

That summed it up for me. Should have kept possession, tried to milk a couple of penalties and worked our way up the pitch with patience. Fucking idiotic.

I thought M Fagerson was gash as well. So many times he seemed to be trying to annoy Wales rather than just getting stuck in. Gave away a load of penalties as well

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:59 pm
I don’t know what you’ve done with the quote there, but anyway.

I think we pride ourselves on keeping this thread sociable so I’m going to walk away, but your original post really annoyed me

Nothing personal given or taken. I'm equally annoyed (not with you of course)

Ireland were fairly composed with their 14 for a larger share of the game. I do think the coach has a massive role in how that pans out - credit to Toony for play during last week's yellow, credit taken back as it appears not enough was done on the defensive side of such a scenario. That's the crux of it, for me.

So back to square one.

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:57 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:56 pm That’s a fecking red card now? Seriously? Last week’s was a bit soft. That was bloody ludicrous.

For me it was an unquestionable red

You’ve obviously seen something I didn’t. I haven’t watched the game yet, only seen the clip of the incident.

TheNatalShark wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:04 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:59 pm
I don’t know what you’ve done with the quote there, but anyway.

I think we pride ourselves on keeping this thread sociable so I’m going to walk away, but your original post really annoyed me

Nothing personal given or taken. I'm equally annoyed (not with you of course)

Ireland were fairly composed with their 14 for a larger share of the game. I do think the coach has a massive role in how that pans out - credit to Toony for play during last week's yellow, credit taken back as it appears not enough was done on the defensive side of such a scenario. That's the crux of it, for me.

So back to square one.

Cool mate, all good

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:00 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:57 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:56 pm That’s a fecking red card now? Seriously? Last week’s was a bit soft. That was bloody ludicrous.

For me it was an unquestionable red

Shoulder to the head = red. Every. Single. Time.

Not what I saw, but as I say I’ve only seen it briefly and on my phone.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:06 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:00 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:57 pm

For me it was an unquestionable red

Shoulder to the head = red. Every. Single. Time.

Not what I saw, but as I say I’ve only seen it briefly and on my phone.

It was the shoulder the chin and he didn't tuck his arms. It's a red every day of the week.

Did Fagerson headhunt? Probably not. But you put yourself in the position to be red carded and you're red carded.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:06 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:00 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:57 pm

For me it was an unquestionable red

Shoulder to the head = red. Every. Single. Time.

Not what I saw, but as I say I’ve only seen it briefly and on my phone.

To the letter of the law it was a red and he had to go especially after last week, but I reckon exactly the same happens multiple times every game. The amount of times you see players flying in to mauls it’s inevitable.

Tattie wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:03 pm

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:01 pm I just can't get my head around Price kicking that away on 78min. What was he expecting to happen? A line out where they can run down the clock?

I don't get it

That summed it up for me. Should have kept possession, tried to milk a couple of penalties and worked our way up the pitch with patience. Fucking idiotic.

It was fucking brainless - so frustrating.

Fagerson is going to.jave to be careful. He is a little bit of a liability sometimes.

On the plus side, good to see Hogg playing well againbacking up last weeks good performance.

Tattie wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:10 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:06 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:00 pm

Shoulder to the head = red. Every. Single. Time.

Not what I saw, but as I say I’ve only seen it briefly and on my phone.

To the letter of the law it was a red and he had to go especially after last week, but I reckon exactly the same happens multiple times every game. The amount of times you see players flying in to mauls it’s inevitable.

I think you are right, but he came from a long way away and gave himself no chance of getting the benefit of the doubt

Tattie wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:10 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:06 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:00 pm

Shoulder to the head = red. Every. Single. Time.

Not what I saw, but as I say I’ve only seen it briefly and on my phone.

To the letter of the law it was a red and he had to go especially after last week, but I reckon exactly the same happens multiple times every game. The amount of times you see players flying in to mauls it’s inevitable.

The actual contact was fairly minimal. The TMO was trying to walk the ref back but he was having none of it.

WTF was Price thinking??

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:11 pm Fagerson is going to.jave to be careful. He is a little bit of a liability sometimes.

On the plus side, good to see Hogg playing well againbacking up last weeks good performance.

Yes, the upside, he was fucking brilliant again. Both centres were good, as was Jones when he came on. Darcy was good, IrnDu was fine, Jones looked good when he came on. Gray had another very decent game

Tattie wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:10 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:06 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:00 pm

Shoulder to the head = red. Every. Single. Time.

Not what I saw, but as I say I’ve only seen it briefly and on my phone.

To the letter of the law it was a red and he had to go especially after last week, but I reckon exactly the same happens multiple times every game. The amount of times you see players flying in to mauls it’s inevitable.

That was exactly my feeling. If that’s the letter of the law now then a lot of games should by rights be finishing as 9 v 10.

But then, fuck it. It makes no difference what the reasons are. The record books won’t care.We’ve screwed up after the perfect start and we will do nothing in the tournament yet again. That’s why I am so bloody angry right now.

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:57 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:56 pm That’s a fecking red card now? Seriously? Last week’s was a bit soft. That was bloody ludicrous.

For me it was an unquestionable red

Have to agree. I'm sick of seeing these pricks flying in shoulder first when players have their head down competing over the ball. What part of that players body do they think they will hit. If it takes a few clowns like Fagerson and POM to get reds for them to get the message, so be it.

Jock42 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:13 pm WTF was Price thinking??

Brainless. Work to within a few yards of a drop goal and then he kicks it. It's still the shit decision making we see time and time again.

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:24 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:57 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:56 pm That’s a fecking red card now? Seriously? Last week’s was a bit soft. That was bloody ludicrous.

For me it was an unquestionable red

Have to agree. I'm sick of seeing these pricks flying in shoulder first when players have their head down competing over the ball. What part of that players body do they think they will hit. If it takes a few clowns like Fagerson and POM to get reds for them to get the message, so be it.

As a doctor, I don’t actually disagree with the idea we need to take head injuries a lot more seriously. The issue I have is that players do this literally all the time and it isn’t being refereed consistently.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:32 pm

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:24 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:57 pm

For me it was an unquestionable red

Have to agree. I'm sick of seeing these pricks flying in shoulder first when players have their head down competing over the ball. What part of that players body do they think they will hit. If it takes a few clowns like Fagerson and POM to get reds for them to get the message, so be it.

As a doctor, I don’t actually disagree with the idea we need to take head injuries a lot more seriously. The issue I have is that players do this literally all the time and it isn’t being refereed consistently.

Possibly, it's just a reckless roll of the dice though, and a professional international should show a bit more composure.

Blackmac wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:26 pm

Jock42 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:13 pm WTF was Price thinking??

Brainless. Work to within a few yards of a drop goal and then he kicks it. It's still the shit decision making we see time and time again.

Are they not talking about the last 5 mins in the team tactics? Time after time they fuck it up. I'm not sure you can even blame flapping.

Good god guys, do you really think the red card was the difference? You’re just making the same excuses we’ve been making for twenty years if you do.

I don’t think there is any way we lose that game if we keep 15 men on the field. That’s what is so maddening. We are our own worst enemies.

Once it was 14 v 15 it was the end of us. I know this has been debated on here before, but I’d love to see the stats on who wins games with a man advantage for >30 mins. The depleted team may put up a fight, as we did today, but 95% of the time they still lose.

A red card ends a game as a contest the vast majority of the time.

Edit: this was not in response to Biffer.

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:44 pm Good god guys, do you really think the red card was the difference? You’re just making the same excuses we’ve been making for twenty years if you do.

I agree although I do wonder whether keeping it 7 on 8 I the forwards would have been a better move.

On another note, I'm not stepping off the Hogg for Lions captain bandwagon nor removing my tongue from my cheek. May as well ride this one out.

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:44 pm Good god guys, do you really think the red card was the difference? You’re just making the same excuses we’ve been making for twenty years if you do.

This. Its like the QF. Stupid mistakes cost the win.

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:44 pm Good god guys, do you really think the red card was the difference? You’re just making the same excuses we’ve been making for twenty years if you do.

I haven’t watched it back yet, so perhaps I’m wrong. But at the time of the red card we were still ahead by 2 points, and with a better bench than Wales and likely to end the game more strongly.

Perhaps we could still have won with 14 and we passed up chances to do so, but we played half the game one short and the points margin changed by 3. If we had kept a full complement I’m confident we’d have won.

I’ll probably get slaughtered for this but I would rather the results of the last two weekends were reversed, from a “feeling positive about Scottish rugby” point of view. Losing a tight away game v England, a fixture we expect to lose and a decent win against wales at home and I would be feeling a lot more positive.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:50 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:44 pm Good god guys, do you really think the red card was the difference? You’re just making the same excuses we’ve been making for twenty years if you do.

I haven’t watched it back yet, so perhaps I’m wrong. But at the time of the red card we were still ahead by 2 points, and with a better bench than Wales and likely to end the game more strongly.

Perhaps we could still have won with 14 and we passed up chances to do so, but we played half the game one short and the points margin changed by 3. If we had kept a full complement I’m confident we’d have won.

We should have been a distant memory by halftime.

Big D wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:46 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Sat Feb 13, 2021 7:44 pm Good god guys, do you really think the red card was the difference? You’re just making the same excuses we’ve been making for twenty years if you do.

I agree although I do wonder whether keeping it 7 on 8 I the forwards would have been a better move.

On another note, I'm not stepping off the Hogg for Lions captain bandwagon nor removing my tongue from my cheek. May as well ride this one out.

I’m joining it wholeheartedly. He, with the really French, Frenchman, has been the player of the tournament so far by a distance.

I’ve actually been mulling it over as I cook a valentines meal with the wife which is not going down well