Saffers

[Chilli2]

ACHTUNG Cape Town types!

Have any of you eaten at The Iron Grill in Bree street?

A mate of mine ate there last week and said that they specialize in Bavette [that is plankie steak to you Oom] and are KAK expensive.
The meat was good but over salty. R200 for a 200g bavette and salad.

Pricey.

If you live in the Eastern Cape then everything is expensive in CT.

That is no lie.

I bought EXCELLENT rump yesterday for R139 per kg.

[Chilli2]

ACHTUNG Cape Town types!

Have any of you eaten at The Iron Grill in Bree street?

A mate of mine ate there last week and said that they specialize in Bavette [that is plankie steak to you Oom] and are KAK expensive.
The meat was good but over salty. R200 for a 200g bavette and salad.

Pricey.

If you live in the Eastern Cape then everything is expensive in CT.

We went away last weekend to just have a break and recharge the body and mind. We went to the Baths in Citrusdal and soaked in the mineral springs for 3 days. I really felt the difference in my body and skin and could take my mind off all the drama of the cricket season.
Whenever we go away we never take food. We try to support the local restaurants and obviously explore the culinary experiences as part of our holiday experience.

Well. Citrusdal really does not have much to offer. A pity because their local beef is really tasty. We eventually came across Salomis in Citrusdal towards the edge of town close to the country club. What a delicious surprise. Once again very simple done properly. And a good product to work with. These prices were very reasonable. You pay R165.00 for a 300 to 400 gram Ribeye. The same would go for R300 plus in town.

We are at the point where we would rather pay extra to have our food done properly. There is no excuse for a steak not to have sear marks on the surface and a sauce that tastes like it has come from a packet. Unfortunately this is pretty much what we got from the other establishments in the area. It basically was like the farmers wife who has been complimented all her life by her husband and children now subjecting us patrons to her cooking.

I can't tell you when I last ate steak at a restaurant. Not even at a Spur.

I am always disappointed with the steak and price.

Charging R200 for a R200g is daylight robbery.

We pay R99.99 per kg for 21 day aged Bavette from Chalmar Beef. Spar has their house brand steak which is excellent for the same.

They have a 20% food cost on that steak. Fuck me!

[OomStruisbaai]

I also don't order steak from a steakhouse. Braai is the best. Bought steak special on Friday for R99 pk. Club, Tbone & rump combo. Sheep for R85 p kg.

[_Os_]

Ramaphosa's addiction to EWC is just insane. Signed that into law without even telling the DA he was going to do it, which has forced the DA to take the ANC to court when they're both in government together. Ramaphosa also now has the US breathing down his neck.

This Ramaphosa guy is a domkop, Zuma didn't even go to school and is smarter than this. How he has fucked this up I'll never know, by giving the DA so little power he has ended up with all the same old shit policies and if the DA walks out he has no government.

President domkop is meeting Trump next week, so I thought I would update this post from up the thread.

GNU/Budget.

What I know both from what's publicly available and through contacts:

1st budget was tabled without any consultation with the DA, it failed immediately. 2nd budget was tabled without any consultation with the DA and the DA actively calling for reforms. It was going to fail, so the ANC started negotiating with the DA, they reach an agreement which has at least some reforms there's a document and it's ready to go. Ramaphosa then backs out of the deal in literally the last hours and tries to go it alone with the Gauteng spivs (oom's new favourite word), in ASA/BOSA/Rise (Mashaba, Maimane and that pack of kants), that then blows up. The 3rd budget attempt is now loading.

Important to understand what happened in all that. Ramaphosa is purposely avoiding reforms. I know for a fact he refused to meet with Steenhuisen, it all had to be done through intermediaries which is ridiculous. It's also a fact most of the agreed reforms that so far haven't happened, were proposed by one faction of the ANC that was then overruled by another faction of the ANC.

Trump

This is where it really shows how stupid Ramaphosa is.

EWC. I'll say it again ... Zuma was smarter than this. EWC is a terrible fucking idea, because it destroys all property rights, which forces the US to fight for the interests of their companies invested in SA. Zuma never went anywhere close to what Ramaphosa is with this EWC stuff, he looked at it a few times and backed off.

Israel. Again Ramaphosa is a clueless moron, Zuma wouldn't have touched this shit, SA can gain nothing from it. In terms of the foreign policy of SA, it doesn't matter at all what is happening in the ME, SA has no power. But going after Israel again forces the US to respond.

The US has now cut aid, imposed tariffs, isn't coming to the G20, expelled an SA ambassador, opened up a refugee programme. This is all being created by Ramaphosa, the guy is a domkop and way out of his fucking depth. There was a time when I think he could've averted needing to do much by ending his anti-Israel policy and doing some reforms, that isn't going to work now. The big error he keeps making is telling Trump he is wrong, "no there are no farm murders", "no Israel is bad", "no they are not refugees they are cowards", "no there is no racial discrimination" ... but there literally are farm murders, the US says Israel is not bad, the US says they are refugees, there literally is racial discrimination in law Ramaphosa just thinks that is good.

How is this going to work? Rock up at the White House and say Israel is doing a genocide but it's okay to say "kill the Boer"? Not sure if there's going to be Zelensky style moment, but just looking at how US actions are escalating that's where it's heading.

Can easily see Ramaphosa bringing about a situation where the US is forced to eject SA from AGOA and place targeted sanctions on the ANC leadership. Wrong to think it's just Trump also, some of this started under Biden, they weren't happy with stuff SA was doing with Russia/Iran/China.

SA Media

Worth quickly mentioning these bastards. Crazy that they're blaming SA twitter accounts that Musk follows for all this. No, the US State Department and intelligence community can read the expropriation act and all the other racist laws, they know what the ANC is doing without being told by some random person on twitter.

[OomStruisbaai]

I like the American Boere.

[Blake]

I like that the internet is calling them "The Voetsekkers" and their journey "Die Groot Tsek".

Fuck them and fuck Trump. Making a mockery of the refugee and asylum system that was put in place to assist people fleeing war zones, war lords and genocide.

Going to be fun watching them spin these folks wanting to come home when they realise how shit their lives in the USA is going to be.

[OomStruisbaai]

I like that the internet is calling the "The Voetsekkers" and their journey "Die Groot Tsek".

Fuck them and fuck Trump. Making a mockery of the refugee and asylum system that was put in place to assist people fleeing war zones, war lords and genocide.

Going to be fun watching them spin these folks wanting to come home when they realise how shit their lives in the USA is going to be.

I cant see why they would want to return to this shitehouse of getting killed at their farms in South Africa. Credit to Trump pissing on Ramaphosa and kie's batteries. For to long they tried their reverse apartheid blame on everything , going from bad to worse. Fuck know we are lucky the DA also bring a bit of a stop to them.

[OomStruisbaai]

Think I must also apply for that.

[Sards]

I like that the internet is calling the "The Voetsekkers" and their journey "Die Groot Tsek".

Fuck them and fuck Trump. Making a mockery of the refugee and asylum system that was put in place to assist people fleeing war zones, war lords and genocide.

Going to be fun watching them spin these folks wanting to come home when they realise how shit their lives in the USA is going to be.

It takes a bit of maturity and intelligence to follow what Trump is trying to achieve.
Too many young dooses thinking that they can make an internet, social media, name for themselves. Going to look pretty silly when the end game is achieved.

If you follow the reactions on social media you might get a clue. But right now I am having a good laugh at these " woke " young twats

[assfly]

I like that the internet is calling the "The Voetsekkers" and their journey "Die Groot Tsek".

Fuck them and fuck Trump. Making a mockery of the refugee and asylum system that was put in place to assist people fleeing war zones, war lords and genocide.

Going to be fun watching them spin these folks wanting to come home when they realise how shit their lives in the USA is going to be.

I've kind of gone full circle on this issue. At first thought the same as you, but seeing the photos of them actually made me pity them. They are obviously desperate and naive and now they are being used as pawns in a game of politics. They looked quite pathetic and vulnerable upon arrival in the US, and probably have no idea what they have let themselves in for, and are now hated at home and abroad.

Nobody is going to come out looking good from this shitshow.

[average joe]

No self-respecting person who calls himself a "boer" that I've spoken to would ever consider going anywhere as a refugee. Those are car guards from Brakpan, and maplotters whose properties look like scrap yards with a few Newcastle aids chickens and a malnourished three-legged goat hopping around.

Regardless of this, people leave SA for many reasons, and I wish them luck in Trumpland, living in a trailer park off food stamps with an old scrap iPhone 4. I hope the jobs they get are not too strenuous, cause that uncle with the big boep will have a hard time swinging a pickaxe.

[Sards]

The most important issue that has been highlighted for Americans and SouthAfricans, is the reverse racism which Trump has highlighted and put an end date on in terms of the sympathy received.

This is incredible going forward for all the citizens of the world. It's time to man up or shut up. And don't expect special treatment if you are not prepared to give whitey special treatment too.

There is no way that I am racist in any form. But one thing I can say.
I voted in the referendum to end apartheid. I believed in a better country for us all. Not many can say they were party to that.
But I did not vote for reverse racism.

The young twatish woke social media sensationalists need a smack around their wet ears

[_Os_]

I like that the internet is calling the "The Voetsekkers" and their journey "Die Groot Tsek".

Fuck them and fuck Trump. Making a mockery of the refugee and asylum system that was put in place to assist people fleeing war zones, war lords and genocide.

I'm honestly not sure. Before this it would never have occurred to me, a 4D chess move from the US I don't think anyone in the SA government saw coming.

This is what the 1951 refugee convention actually says on who is a refugee: "owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group or political opinion". It is just a fact SA has been generating a growing number of refugees (now in the 1000s), hard to know what the basis is but LGBT people seem to be part of it. The actual definition isn't about warzones or things which have progressed into an actual genocide. In country refugee programmes also existed before this, where people have not fled and apply from within a country.

Republicans seem to be making the argument the people coming over their southern border are not refugees, they're just poor people fleeing shitholes that face no persecution, but white South Africans (now expanded to all SA minority groups) are refugees. It's a stronger argument than it first looks and seems to be going down well with Republicans.

The amount of racial laws SA now has is completely insane, it basically covers everything: sports teams for children upwards, farmers ability to access water, business ownership, land ownership, employment at all levels in the state and private sector, business supply chains, COVID funds, university applications, and on and on. None of this is normal outside SA.
Then there's the direct calls for mass killings which are legally protected speech, in a country as violent as SA. Again outside SA there's nowhere something like "kill the Boer" is allowed, it's a direct call to harm others on the basis of the ethnicity, that's not free speech anywhere not even in the US.

Then there's the insane reaction of the SA government and media to all this. 500+ people were murdered in SA last week, 100+ people emigrated through normal means, not news and no one cares. Instead the ANC say in an official press release the refugees (the US says they are, if the Ramaphosa plans to tell the US they're not, that isn't going to work) are seeking "impunity from transformation", in other words transformation is a punitive measure intended to harm whites and they are escaping that. Afriforum is being investigated for "treason", for going to the US and saying "we are subject to racial discrimination on an industrial scale". If the aim was convincing people outside SA these are not refugees, this is the opposite to what they should be doing.

I wouldn't see this as a one off. 70k applied so far. The US could start putting on flights every week, the aim is to destroy South Africa's reputation. SA is throwing a lot of rocks at Israel and is in a very large glass house.

Going to be fun watching them spin these folks wanting to come home when they realise how shit their lives in the USA is going to be.

There's a myth in SA that whites are highly privileged and just need to exist to basically have everything handed to them. That somehow because apartheid gave someone's father a job on the railways or as a policeman, that means they're the inheritor of unlimited wealth beyond imagination. Reality is the work ethic of the average white South African dumped into the economic opportunity of some average Western country means they immediately start earning more than most. That's what happens if you can slot in 80 hours a week working two jobs, and on top of that running a small business that'll make $10k+ a year is like clubbing a baby seal (the business plan can be as kak as "buy stuff from second hand shop sell on Ebay", it'll work because of the market size). The US tracks median income by ethnic group, in 2023 South Africans were third on $107k, getting on for triple the US median.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_e ... old_income

All the stuff about white South Africans being rich because of apartheid is nearly the opposite of reality. Working in the police/military/railways/parastatals, was a good way to build a state (ANC mostly destroyed that now, good job them), it's a terrible way to get rich.

[_Os_]

Joel Pollak is a good person to follow if you want a sane description of the US view. He does video interviews with BizNews and SA Jewish Report, if you cannot be bothered to read. His family is from SA (Lithuanian Jewish background), they left in the 1980s. He worked for Tony Leon as a speech writer, married the daughter of a famous anti-apartheid activist. Anyway, this is what he says SA has to do ...

1. Amend the Expropriation Act to protect private property and eliminate the possibility of “nil compensation”;
2. Drop the use of racial quotas or targets in employment, and exempt foreign companies from burdensome racial regulations, such as Black Economic Empowerment;
3. Enforce South Africa’s existing laws on hate speech against Julius Malema, and speak out more forcefully against him;
4. Withdraw from the failing and immoral ICJ case against Israel;
5. Stop supporting Iran, and come clean about cooperation with the regime, including commercial ties and nuclear technology.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2025 ... ashington/

If SA refuses it's going to become an enemy of the US. Which means continued escalation against a super power, no more AGOA and targeted sanctions on the ANC leadership (which means them and all their family members and all businesses connected to them state or private, and everyone doing business with those businesses). It's going to be easy for the US to target corrupt ANC officials as they already have laws to sanction corruption and human rights abusers from hostile states, SA will become subject to Global Magnitsky enforcement. I strongly suspect we're already seeing the early stages of this with Malema being denied a UK visa (unless you believe it was because there were an unexpected amount of bank holidays and the UK couldn't process his visa). It'll be easy for the US to find targets because so much has been uncovered by the SA media/NGOs/institutions, but almost never acted on, they can just read the Zondo report and find a list of targets.

SA media is mostly lying to the public about all this.

[Sards]

Joel Pollak is a good person to follow if you want a sane description of the US view. He does video interviews with BizNews

Biznews is a good listen. They try to remain centered and neutral. But let's be honest. Anc just adds fuel to the fire.

Julius is kakking himself. If the ANC fails to convince Trump personal sanctions are going to be heading straight to him. That's why he is making so much noise about the ANC in America

[OomStruisbaai]

Great posts like usual from Ox.

[Tichtheid]

Former Cheetahs and Central University of Technology back row Rayno Nel has made history by becoming the first African to win the World’s Strongest Man [WSM] competition, edging out defending champion Tom Stoltman in a dramatic finish in California.

The 30-year-old South African, who now weighs 148kg (over 23 stone), claimed the title in Sacramento by just half a point, toppling three-time winner Stoltman in what was the first victory by a rookie at the event since 1997.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/former-r ... 8qvoWEb-RQ

[Blake]

I like that the internet is calling the "The Voetsekkers" and their journey "Die Groot Tsek".

Fuck them and fuck Trump. Making a mockery of the refugee and asylum system that was put in place to assist people fleeing war zones, war lords and genocide.

Going to be fun watching them spin these folks wanting to come home when they realise how shit their lives in the USA is going to be.

I've kind of gone full circle on this issue. At first thought the same as you, but seeing the photos of them actually made me pity them. They are obviously desperate and naive and now they are being used as pawns in a game of politics. They looked quite pathetic and vulnerable upon arrival in the US, and probably have no idea what they have let themselves in for, and are now hated at home and abroad.

Nobody is going to come out looking good from this shitshow.

I agree on all of this. I guess I just haven't come full circle like you have. They are getting used and I guess I can't blame them for being too naive to see it. Maybe because of their political value they'll have some benefactors on that side that will carry them for a while...until one day, they don't.

The USA is cutthroat, and I honestly can't see the majority of them making it there, especially not with the upheaval that that's going to hit the USA over the next 3 years.

[_Os_]

I like that the internet is calling the "The Voetsekkers" and their journey "Die Groot Tsek".

Fuck them and fuck Trump. Making a mockery of the refugee and asylum system that was put in place to assist people fleeing war zones, war lords and genocide.

Going to be fun watching them spin these folks wanting to come home when they realise how shit their lives in the USA is going to be.

I've kind of gone full circle on this issue. At first thought the same as you, but seeing the photos of them actually made me pity them. They are obviously desperate and naive and now they are being used as pawns in a game of politics. They looked quite pathetic and vulnerable upon arrival in the US, and probably have no idea what they have let themselves in for, and are now hated at home and abroad.

Nobody is going to come out looking good from this shitshow.

I agree on all of this. I guess I just haven't come full circle like you have. They are getting used and I guess I can't blame them for being too naive to see it. Maybe because of their political value they'll have some benefactors on that side that will carry them for a while...until one day, they don't.

The USA is cutthroat, and I honestly can't see the majority of them making it there, especially not with the upheaval that that's going to hit the USA over the next 3 years.

Their package is: support for 1 year including help finding work, green card in that year, citizenship in 5 years.

If someone wants to move to the US it doesn't come better than that.

Ramaphosa's move now. I'm expecting him to say the US is "mistaken" and so on, smile like a chump and lie. Doubt the US will buy any of it, but they'll give SA some time. Then if nothing happens there'll be a strong response from the US in the coming months. SA has no cards and Trump enjoys abusing both opponents and allies who are weak.

[_Os_]

Joel Pollak is a good person to follow if you want a sane description of the US view. He does video interviews with BizNews

Biznews is a good listen. They try to remain centered and neutral. But let's be honest. Anc just adds fuel to the fire.

Julius is kakking himself. If the ANC fails to convince Trump personal sanctions are going to be heading straight to him. That's why he is making so much noise about the ANC in America

I would be kak scared if I were Malema. SA isn't like Russia or China, it's highly integrated into Western systems. If they really go for Malema with targeted sanctions, his entire family will be de-banked and assets frozen, no SA financial institution will open itself up to sanction busting litigation especially if they do business outside SA. He'll then need someone to be his wallet and hold all his money, and hope that person isn't a crook. They'll also go after some dodgy businesses he's allegedly involved with.

This is where the stupidity of the ANC's foreign policy will become apparent. They don't understand that SA is Western economically. They don't even understand all their supposed friends in BRICS are nowhere, not even other African countries are sticking up for them. ZANU-PF, of all people, have stated publicly that Afrikaners are African.

[OomStruisbaai]

The biggest worry for South Africa is the amount of Africa foreigners. Looking at the smallest of towns is changing in numbers overnight. The people are hungry and need work.

[Chilli2]

Former Cheetahs and Central University of Technology back row Rayno Nel has made history by becoming the first African to win the World’s Strongest Man [WSM] competition, edging out defending champion Tom Stoltman in a dramatic finish in California.

The 30-year-old South African, who now weighs 148kg (over 23 stone), claimed the title in Sacramento by just half a point, toppling three-time winner Stoltman in what was the first victory by a rookie at the event since 1997.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/former-r ... 8qvoWEb-RQ

Freestaters leading the way as per usual.

[Chilli2]

The biggest worry for South Africa is the amount of Africa foreigners. Looking at the smallest of towns is changing in numbers overnight. The people are hungry and need work.

This is very true.
The company rebuilding the Hotel has no full time labourers. They get all their labour from a labour broker. They are all from elsewhere is southern Africa. Zimbabwe, Malawi, Mozambique etc. They are paid just above minimum wage and work well. Some of the local farmers are hiring "foreigners" to replace South African staff. They are mostly better educated, look after the implements better and are more reliable.

The Boere are now all speaking English deliciously so that the staff understand them.

If only Oom would also learn.

[assfly]

Some of the local farmers are hiring "foreigners" to replace South African staff. They are mostly better educated, look after the implements better and are more reliable.

Sounds like it's not the foreigners that are the problem.

[OomStruisbaai]

The biggest worry for South Africa is the amount of Africa foreigners. Looking at the smallest of towns is changing in numbers overnight. The people are hungry and need work.

This is very true.
The company rebuilding the Hotel has no full time labourers. They get all their labour from a labour broker. They are all from elsewhere is southern Africa. Zimbabwe, Malawi, Mozambique etc. They are paid just above minimum wage and work well. Some of the local farmers are hiring "foreigners" to replace South African staff. They are mostly better educated, look after the implements better and are more reliable.

The Boere are now all speaking English deliciously so that the staff understand them.

If only Oom would also learn.

Oom's red tale improved a lot. Have to give training to end users and communicating with global personal. First my family laughed at me, now they ask me to do the communication. My help desk is obvious afrikaans aswell and many users really appreciate this. All businesses Helpdesks is a nightmare when you ask for afrikaans.

[Blake]

Some of the local farmers are hiring "foreigners" to replace South African staff. They are mostly better educated, look after the implements better and are more reliable.

Sounds like it's not the foreigners that are the problem.

It rarely is.

[Blake]

Their package is: support for 1 year including help finding work, green card in that year, citizenship in 5 years.

If someone wants to move to the US it doesn't come better than that.

Completely agree, I just don't see why anybody would. I understand that they feel that anywhere would be better than South Africa, but I just don't think they know what they have let themselves in for. As Trump would say "we are not sending them our best". I'm waiting to see the bullwhip effect of all the tariff nonsense hit the USA. Prices are going to go through the roof.

Ramaphosa's move now. I'm expecting him to say the US is "mistaken" and so on, smile like a chump and lie. Doubt the US will buy any of it, but they'll give SA some time. Then if nothing happens there'll be a strong response from the US in the coming months. SA has no cards and Trump enjoys abusing both opponents and allies who are weak.

While Cyril will no doubt be his mealy-mouthed self, I don't know why he has to respond at all. Basically what was always going to happen is going to happen anyway. The world will have 3 centers of power:
- USA will insulate themselves
- EU led coalition with Canada & Australia
- The rest of the world led by China

SA was always going to fall in the third group. Trump's actions just cements it more.

[_Os_]

Their package is: support for 1 year including help finding work, green card in that year, citizenship in 5 years.

If someone wants to move to the US it doesn't come better than that.

Completely agree, I just don't see why anybody would. I understand that they feel that anywhere would be better than South Africa, but I just don't think they know what they have let themselves in for. As Trump would say "we are not sending them our best". I'm waiting to see the bullwhip effect of all the tariff nonsense hit the USA. Prices are going to go through the roof.

I can see the appeal of the US, which is money. The amount of opportunity there is hard to fully grasp, just the scale of their economy. Starting a business in the US has always been a bucket list item of mine (ie, it'll never happen but sounds lekker). Actually wanting to live in the US forever and become an American, is entirely less appealing.

Personally I wouldn't consider going anywhere that didn't have an SA community. There's a lot of advantages in having old boys around, SA chamber of commerce, even an SA shop. Can get going without all that but why make life harder.

Ramaphosa's move now. I'm expecting him to say the US is "mistaken" and so on, smile like a chump and lie. Doubt the US will buy any of it, but they'll give SA some time. Then if nothing happens there'll be a strong response from the US in the coming months. SA has no cards and Trump enjoys abusing both opponents and allies who are weak.

While Cyril will no doubt be his mealy-mouthed self, I don't know why he has to respond at all. Basically what was always going to happen is going to happen anyway. The world will have 3 centers of power:
- USA will insulate themselves
- EU led coalition with Canada & Australia
- The rest of the world led by China

SA was always going to fall in the third group. Trump's actions just cements it more.

SA's position has always been the halfway point between Europe and Asia, neither one nor the other, and not completely dominated by Africa like say Nigeria or DRC. It's a very Western orientated place, Malema cries about not being able to go to the UK, everyone watches European soccer and listens to American music, not many people know anything about Africa beyond the immediate neighbouring states. If forced to choose where they would live if not SA nearly everyone would pick a Western country (not BRICS, not Africa). It's what informs the insane outrage from some of our compatriots who over the years have been keen to tell whites to emigrate, as always with them it's envy (would they care if some whites left for Malawi? I doubt it). Other Africans know all this about South Africans, it forms a lot of their stereotypes ("they think they're too good for us").

The next thing to remember is the views of the ANC elite are the exact opposite views of the people. Only 10%-20% want BEE overwhelming majority actively dislike it and see it as inherently corrupt, no one cares about Israel and Palestine, Iran is disliked if anyone even cares, the polling there is shows Ukraine is supported not Russia. This is why the ANC always lies ("racial discrimination, us the glorious ANC? there is none!", "support Russia, us the glorious ANC? We are neutral in that conflict!"), they cannot be honest with their supporters because they know their supporters do not agree with them.

So, SA is always going to have a hedged position if it wants that or not, but given the geography that'll always mean more Western than anything else. If SA had a land border with China it would be different, but SA only gets to trade with Asia if the imperial power of the day allows it (first the Portuguese, then the Dutch, then the British, now America). If SA tries to pivot towards China ultimately that is underwritten by the US Navy, which is the same as saying a pivot isn't possible.

[_Os_]

Trump is absolutely fucking mauling Ramaphosa and the ANC, brutal. He's throwing the photos of the Boer dead into his face.

Targeted sanctions are coming.

[_Os_]

Steenhuisen is the only one actually managing to inject some facts into proceedings and stop the rampaging Trump bull briefly. The utter humiliation of the ANC, they now need the DA guy from Durban North to save them, fuck me.

[_Os_]

Trump: "Dim the lights, play the Malema video, whilst you watch here's some photos of Boer dead, and what about all your racist laws. Apartheid was bad, really bad, aren't you doing the same thing in reverse?".

[assfly]

I thought it was going pretty well until the video started. CR was pretty calm and didn't raise the temperature, but perhaps he could have fought back a bit more.

I thought Steenhuisen and Els were both excellent.

Listening to 702 this morning, a lot of people seem to think it went well. But the international news headlines are not good.

[Blake]

I thought it was going pretty well until the video started. CR was pretty calm and didn't raise the temperature, but perhaps he could have fought back a bit more.

I thought Steenhuisen and Els were both excellent.

Listening to 702 this morning, a lot of people seem to think it went well. But the international news headlines are not good.

It went pretty much as expected. The White House is currently run by a bunch of internet trolls and you will exhaust yourself trying to debunk each and every bullshit accusation. It's like a Twitter feed being broadcast on live television. You'll never get ahead of it and since they have home court advantage you aren't going to be able to defend yourself when the host starts playing a propaganda video. The SA delegation did as much as they possibly could under the circumstances.

The alternative was to antagonise Trump and call him and his staff out for being liars and hypocrites, and what would that achieve? Play a video of a bunch of American politicians threatening to shoot immigrants in their campaign videos and ask Trump if they are going to get arrested for doing effectively what Malema is doing? Play videos of protesters in America lighting symbolic candles for every unarmed citizen killed by America police or every school child killed in a shooting? You could, but what would it actually achieve?

There was nothing to really gain from this meeting, but given the Trump Administration's attacks on us since they got into power (Tariffs, cutting USAID, threatening AGOA and now the Afrikaner Genocide & Refugee thing) old Cyril had to try to do something, as futile as it seemed and ended up being. Glad it only cost the South African tax payer a golf book and not Boeing.

As with all things Trump; those that hate him sees this as another embarrassment and those that worship him see it as another massive victory and in the end nothing really changed, except SA maybe moving a little further away from the USA and more towards China.

[_Os_]

I thought Steenhuisen and Els were both excellent.

Steenhuisen was good from any perspective (DA, ANC, neutral viewer). Which is very amusing to me.

Els isn't a politician and went off script, definitely not what the ANC wanted, "the ANC have had 31 years, two wrongs don't make a right", "thankyou America for helping us in Angola during the war". Goosen was even less helpful for the ANC "my family have been attacked on a farm". They just gave average white South African responses, personally I liked what they had to say and I'm happy they said it.

Listening to 702 this morning, a lot of people seem to think it went well. But the international news headlines are not good.

Definitely a "fish doesn't know it is in water" situation. South Africans see incitement to racially motivated hate crimes as normal, an international audience definitely doesn't see it that way. The ANC isn't actually good at politics when there's a real contest, as the Budget situation has shown. If they cannot dominate everything and set the entire narrative it all falls apart, as their situation in the Western Cape and now KZN shows, and now the Oval Office too.

They're trying to control the situation using their propaganda tools targeted at a domestic audience, because that's how they do politics. Going to get some traction because the SA electorate isn't used to international politics when SA is an active player and not a spectator. SA can decide what it likes about Trump, but it's not the same as lying about the DA or Zille. The US has a list of substantive issues it wants action on, if what Afriforum says is true targeted sanctions are on the table (they have said recent trips to the US were about pleading not to use broad sanctions against SA).

The messaging indicates the ANC are going to keep saying everything is "misinformation" and not change what they're doing. Which means they keep escalating against a super power.

[Sandstorm]

The messaging indicates the ANC are going to keep saying everything is "misinformation" and not change what they're doing. Which means they keep escalating against a super power.

Yup. Really stupid to keep going in the same direction.

I'd like to see Malema arrested and questioned for 8 hours. Put it on the front pages and even say that "Trump suggested it when we were in the White House...." Play to the cnuts ego and de-escalate this.

[Blake]

The messaging indicates the ANC are going to keep saying everything is "misinformation" and not change what they're doing. Which means they keep escalating against a super power.

Just like with Zuma, calling out Trump's lies hasn't seemed to work. But it really is all you can do.

As much as I don't like the ANC, the current BEE policies and the new Land Expropriation Act...if I were them I wouldn't blink either. You can't make these kinds of demands from a foreign, sovereign nation and expect them to just bend the knee and comply. That's why these negotiations have typically been done behind closed doors so that parties can negotiate and save face if they have to make a 180 on their previous position.

All that will happen now is Trump will do what he always does, and both sides will harden their positions. It's like what many of the other African leaders have said after they sold off parts of their countries to China: "When the US/Europe/IMF come to visit we get a lecture, when China comes we get roads/railways/hospitals/bridges".

[Blake]

The messaging indicates the ANC are going to keep saying everything is "misinformation" and not change what they're doing. Which means they keep escalating against a super power.

Yup. Really stupid to keep going in the same direction.

I'd like to see Malema arrested and questioned for 8 hours. Put it on the front pages and even say that "Trump suggested it when we were in the White House...." Play to the cnuts ego and de-escalate this.

On what charges? He's already been to court on the issue and the High Court and Constitutional Court and it was judged to be protected political speech. I don't personally agree with the rulings, but should we keep taking swings at Malema and missing? He has become less relevant in each election and is the weakest he has ever been politically. His top lieutenants have all abandoned him and the EFF has had scandal after scandal. All this attention has shoved him into the international spotlight and just rekindled his political career.

[_Os_]

The messaging indicates the ANC are going to keep saying everything is "misinformation" and not change what they're doing. Which means they keep escalating against a super power.

Just like with Zuma, calling out Trump's lies hasn't seemed to work. But it really is all you can do.

As much as I don't like the ANC, the current BEE policies and the new Land Expropriation Act...if I were them I wouldn't blink either. You can't make these kinds of demands from a foreign, sovereign nation and expect them to just bend the knee and comply. That's why these negotiations have typically been done behind closed doors so that parties can negotiate and save face if they have to make a 180 on their previous position.

All that will happen now is Trump will do what he always does, and both sides will harden their positions. It's like what many of the other African leaders have said after they sold off parts of their countries to Chine: "When the US/Europe/IMF come to visit we get a lecture, when China comes we get roads/railways/hospitals/bridges".

But this is of the ANC's making, they're handing the opening to Trump. The ANC has had plenty of chances through the GNU and most obviously in the budget to say "we didn't win the election, we have 40%, we need to share power so we have included some DA policies". It would've been really easy for them to do that. They could've of gone to the Oval Office and said "we know we've got some things wrong, all South Africans know that, these are some changes we've made", instead they rocked up with nothing, Ramaphosa just holding his dick in his hand and smiling basically.

There's an irony to all this. If the ANC replaced BEE with a means tested system (help people who need help, not those who do not), got rid of the bad parts of the expropriation act, did some other DA reforms. The economy would boom. Very likely the ANC would win 50%+ of the vote again.

But instead we have the hard way, the humiliating way, the way with unnecessary damage. Vorster dumped Rhodesia because he was forced by the US. Die Groot Krokodil didn't start implementing reforms out of the goodness of his heart or because his supporters demanded it, he was forced by the US.

[Blake]

But instead we have the hard way, the humiliating way, the way with unnecessary damage. Vorster dumped Rhodesia because he was forced by the US. Die Groot Krokodil didn't start implementing reforms out of the goodness of his heart or because his supporters demanded it, he was forced by the US.

Yes, but during that time the choices were US or USSR, and that USA had their shit together. You got in line or you got crushed.

There is little to be gained from being seen as America's lackey and kowtowing to Trump.
He has 2 levers to pull: Tariffs and sanctions...targeted to broad. Both will hurt us economically for sure...but China is waiting in the wings to provide relief for both.

There is little we can do when Trump keeps swinging sticks and isn't providing any carrots.

[Yeeb]

Is it worth watching all that Trump v Cyril stuff ? Was it as awful as the Zelensky set up ?