NPR

handyman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:00 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:57 am

handyman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:20 am

Gatland influenced the tmo in the run up to the first test.

'The TMO should be from a neutral country' is both true and very different to an hour long monologue, this isn't complicated.

I agree, but World Rugby (not SARU) appointed Jonker and Gatland used it to put massive pressure on him.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:57 am

handyman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:20 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:18 am Sure someone has mentioned it above, but in literally every game of rugby ever you could put together a video of calls that didn't go your way. The shame is that if this does actually appear to influence a ref in the final two games everyone will start doing similar. Pathetic stuff that does the game no credit at all.

Gatland influenced the tmo in the run up to the first test.

'The TMO should be from a neutral country' is both true and very different to an hour long monologue, this isn't complicated.

PCPhil wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:09 am Can’t believe that a majority of SA posters seem to be now taking it as read that everything the ‘large verbal assaulter of refs’ insinuated is true. It was just how he said it that was a ‘tad’ strong. Every other rugby playing nations news considers it a national embarrassment.

More wagons please?

SaintK wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:10 am

PCPhil wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:09 am Can’t believe that a majority of SA posters seem to be now taking it as read that everything the ‘large verbal assaulter of refs’ insinuated is true. It was just how he said it that was a ‘tad’ strong. Every other rugby playing nations news considers it a national embarrassment.

More wagons please?

Can you imagine the howls of rage and indignation if Jones, Gatland or Hansen or any other tier 1 nation head coach had done the same thing when playing SA?

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:07 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:57 am

handyman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:20 am

Gatland influenced the tmo in the run up to the first test.

'The TMO should be from a neutral country' is both true and very different to an hour long monologue, this isn't complicated.

The TMO doesn't even need to be in the same country as the match either. There's really no excuse.

SaintK wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:10 am

PCPhil wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:09 am Can’t believe that a majority of SA posters seem to be now taking it as read that everything the ‘large verbal assaulter of refs’ insinuated is true. It was just how he said it that was a ‘tad’ strong. Every other rugby playing nations news considers it a national embarrassment.

More wagons please?

Can you imagine the howls of rage and indignation if Jones, Gatland or Hansen or any other tier 1 nation head coach had done the same thing when playing SA?

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:59 am

handyman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:00 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:57 am

'The TMO should be from a neutral country' is both true and very different to an hour long monologue, this isn't complicated.

I agree, but World Rugby (not SARU) appointed Jonker and Gatland used it to put massive pressure on him.

I'm not blaming the SARU, WR should have shipped out a larger team of officials than they did.
As mentioned it also put Jonker in the nasty spot of needing to appear fair, all of us who've ever reffed our own team will understand that pressure. Gatland pointed this out, and realistically they had time to ship in another official.

ScarfaceClaw wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:17 am Sir Clive Woodworm was rightly mocked for his PowerPoint presentations in NZ in 2005. Rassie is completely in the wrong with how he has delivered this and deservedly needs to be ridiculed for it. It’s deeply disappointing to see this sort of thing being done.

Blake wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:16 am

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:07 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:57 am

'The TMO should be from a neutral country' is both true and very different to an hour long monologue, this isn't complicated.

The TMO doesn't even need to be in the same country as the match either. There's really no excuse.

I think you underestimate the complexity of broadcasting and the time delays involved, as well as how the TMO is getting the feed that is used for decision making.
Maybe get some of that detail before making a comment?

Big Nipper wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:39 am

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:13 am Hey Handyman. Still waiting for some evidence of my baggage with everything South African. Any progress on that yet?

Don't expect much from him. Probably the worst Saffer poster out there, and that says a lot

Blake wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:16 am

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:07 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:57 am

'The TMO should be from a neutral country' is both true and very different to an hour long monologue, this isn't complicated.

The TMO doesn't even need to be in the same country as the match either. There's really no excuse.

I think you underestimate the complexity of broadcasting and the time delays involved, as well as how the TMO is getting the feed that is used for decision making.
Maybe get some of that detail before making a comment?

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:18 am

ScarfaceClaw wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:17 am Sir Clive Woodworm was rightly mocked for his PowerPoint presentations in NZ in 2005. Rassie is completely in the wrong with how he has delivered this and deservedly needs to be ridiculed for it. It’s deeply disappointing to see this sort of thing being done.

But the points he raises in the video are correct and require a response from World Rugby.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:18 am

ScarfaceClaw wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:17 am Sir Clive Woodworm was rightly mocked for his PowerPoint presentations in NZ in 2005. Rassie is completely in the wrong with how he has delivered this and deservedly needs to be ridiculed for it. It’s deeply disappointing to see this sort of thing being done.

But the points he raises in the video are correct and require a response from World Rugby.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:26 am Jesus Christ, no. I can guarantee you that every single match has mistakes and missed offences by the bucketload. That's the sport, unfortunately. WR will not respond publicly and they absofuckinglutely should not be expected to give a detailed response every time some insane poor loser has a meltdown and spends an hour complaining about marginal decisions.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:20 am

Big Nipper wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:39 am

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:13 am Hey Handyman. Still waiting for some evidence of my baggage with everything South African. Any progress on that yet?

Don't expect much from him. Probably the worst Saffer poster out there, and that says a lot

Can't say I've really noticed him in a negative way before. Probably being overly sensitive, but I've never said a bad word about SA on here or PR, so I'm genuinely confused at being labelled in that way.

It's certainly an interesting build up to a test match this week. Hopefully we get a decent game to wash away all this nonsense.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:31 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:26 am Jesus Christ, no. I can guarantee you that every single match has mistakes and missed offences by the bucketload. That's the sport, unfortunately. WR will not respond publicly and they absofuckinglutely should not be expected to give a detailed response every time some insane poor loser has a meltdown and spends an hour complaining about marginal decisions.

They weren't marginal decisions.

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:26 am

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:18 am

ScarfaceClaw wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:17 am Sir Clive Woodworm was rightly mocked for his PowerPoint presentations in NZ in 2005. Rassie is completely in the wrong with how he has delivered this and deservedly needs to be ridiculed for it. It’s deeply disappointing to see this sort of thing being done.

But the points he raises in the video are correct and require a response from World Rugby.

Jesus Christ, no. I can guarantee you that every single match has mistakes and missed offences by the bucketload. That's the sport, unfortunately. WR will not respond publicly and they absofuckinglutely should not be expected to give a detailed response every time some insane poor loser has a meltdown and spends an hour complaining about marginal decisions.

PCPhil wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:33 am

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:31 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:26 am Jesus Christ, no. I can guarantee you that every single match has mistakes and missed offences by the bucketload. That's the sport, unfortunately. WR will not respond publicly and they absofuckinglutely should not be expected to give a detailed response every time some insane poor loser has a meltdown and spends an hour complaining about marginal decisions.

They weren't marginal decisions.

Bless

tc27 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:36 am I think the SA posters need to step back and consider what they are trying to defend here - the best possible spin you can put on Rassie's actions is that its an utterly cynical move that's going to sent a awful precedent but the most likely on is he's having some kind of publically played out breakdown about loosing last week.

SaintK wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:21 am They manage to do it remotely in Premier league soccer albeit within the same country.
You appear to be an expert, perhaps you could explain the technical issues involved.

tc27 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:36 am I think the SA posters need to step back and consider what they are trying to defend here - the best possible spin you can put on Rassie's actions is that its an utterly cynical move that's going to sent a awful precedent but the most likely on is he's having some kind of publically played out breakdown about loosing last week.

handyman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:32 am

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:20 am

Big Nipper wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:39 am

Don't expect much from him. Probably the worst Saffer poster out there, and that says a lot

Can't say I've really noticed him in a negative way before. Probably being overly sensitive, but I've never said a bad word about SA on here or PR, so I'm genuinely confused at being labelled in that way.

It's certainly an interesting build up to a test match this week. Hopefully we get a decent game to wash away all this nonsense.

I might have mixed you up with someone else, if so, apologies

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:41 am

handyman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:32 am

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:20 am

Can't say I've really noticed him in a negative way before. Probably being overly sensitive, but I've never said a bad word about SA on here or PR, so I'm genuinely confused at being labelled in that way.

It's certainly an interesting build up to a test match this week. Hopefully we get a decent game to wash away all this nonsense.

I might have mixed you up with someone else, if so, apologies

No worries mate. Apologies, if I've been a dick about any of this.

Looking forward to some actual rugby now and will probably give this subject a wide berth until after the game.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:41 am

handyman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:32 am

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:20 am

Can't say I've really noticed him in a negative way before. Probably being overly sensitive, but I've never said a bad word about SA on here or PR, so I'm genuinely confused at being labelled in that way.

It's certainly an interesting build up to a test match this week. Hopefully we get a decent game to wash away all this nonsense.

I might have mixed you up with someone else, if so, apologies

No worries mate. Apologies, if I've been a dick about any of this.

Looking forward to some actual rugby now and will probably give this subject a wide berth until after the game.

tc27 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:36 am I think the SA posters need to step back and consider what they are trying to defend here - the best possible spin you can put on Rassie's actions is that its an utterly cynical move that's going to sent a awful precedent but the most likely on is he's having some kind of publically played out breakdown about loosing last week.

average joe wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:40 am Ja, the TMO should have been replaced. The problem is not that Gatland raised it, it's how he raised it. I'm sure there's protocols and official channels to raise concerns about officials. Why blurt it out to the media instead? Because he wanted to apply pressure and effect the outcome of the match? Because he wanted to paint the Springbok camp as the villains with their hometown refs? Why did he make a big hoohaa about it in the media and why is it OK for only him to do it?

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:18 am

Blake wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:16 am

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:07 am

The TMO doesn't even need to be in the same country as the match either. There's really no excuse.

I think you underestimate the complexity of broadcasting and the time delays involved, as well as how the TMO is getting the feed that is used for decision making.
Maybe get some of that detail before making a comment?

You need to look up what 'raw feed' is. And it isn't that shit you call sausage for your BBQ.

“Rugby Australia has noted with dismay and concern the recent public commentary by South African Director of Rugby Rassie Erasmus, regarding Australian referee Nic Berry and other match officials,” the statement read.

“There is no place for abuse of match officials in Australian Rugby, with Rugby Australia committed to promoting a fair, safe and inclusive Rugby experience for all participants, officials and fans.”

RA CEO Andy Marinos confirmed they have taken the issue up with World Rugby as they continue to show support for Berry.

“Match officials form the very fabric of our game – simply, the game would not exist without them. As a highly regarded and respected international referee appointed by World Rugby, the attack on Nic’s integrity, character and reputation is unacceptable,” Marinos said.

“We have been in contact with World Rugby, under whose auspices this Test Series sit, and understand that they are actively reviewing this matter as some facts presented were not accurate.

“It is important to ensure public attacks of this nature are not tolerated. We will continue to provide support to Nic at this time, as both his physical and mental wellbeing remains a priority for us.”

SaintK wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:51 am

average joe wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:40 am Ja, the TMO should have been replaced. The problem is not that Gatland raised it, it's how he raised it. I'm sure there's protocols and official channels to raise concerns about officials. Why blurt it out to the media instead? Because he wanted to apply pressure and effect the outcome of the match? Because he wanted to paint the Springbok camp as the villains with their hometown refs? Why did he make a big hoohaa about it in the media and why is it OK for only him to do it?

Ahh I see! Erasmus's utter stupidity is all Gatlands's fault....got it.

Sards wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:57 am

“Rugby Australia has noted with dismay and concern the recent public commentary by South African Director of Rugby Rassie Erasmus, regarding Australian referee Nic Berry and other match officials,” the statement read.

“There is no place for abuse of match officials in Australian Rugby, with Rugby Australia committed to promoting a fair, safe and inclusive Rugby experience for all participants, officials and fans.”

RA CEO Andy Marinos confirmed they have taken the issue up with World Rugby as they continue to show support for Berry.

“Match officials form the very fabric of our game – simply, the game would not exist without them. As a highly regarded and respected international referee appointed by World Rugby, the attack on Nic’s integrity, character and reputation is unacceptable,” Marinos said.

“We have been in contact with World Rugby, under whose auspices this Test Series sit, and understand that they are actively reviewing this matter as some facts presented were not accurate.

“It is important to ensure public attacks of this nature are not tolerated. We will continue to provide support to Nic at this time, as both his physical and mental wellbeing remains a priority for us.”

Oops.....now the Aussies are pissed off

SaintK wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:51 am Ahh I see! Erasmus's utter stupidity is all Gatlands's fault....got it.

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:31 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:26 am Jesus Christ, no. I can guarantee you that every single match has mistakes and missed offences by the bucketload. That's the sport, unfortunately. WR will not respond publicly and they absofuckinglutely should not be expected to give a detailed response every time some insane poor loser has a meltdown and spends an hour complaining about marginal decisions.

They weren't marginal decisions.

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:11 am

assfly wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:31 am

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:26 am Jesus Christ, no. I can guarantee you that every single match has mistakes and missed offences by the bucketload. That's the sport, unfortunately. WR will not respond publicly and they absofuckinglutely should not be expected to give a detailed response every time some insane poor loser has a meltdown and spends an hour complaining about marginal decisions.

They weren't marginal decisions.

What, the whole hour wasn't marginal decisions? Nothing in the hour was marginal at all? Not even the squint lineouts?

Blake wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:16 am

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:07 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:57 am

'The TMO should be from a neutral country' is both true and very different to an hour long monologue, this isn't complicated.

The TMO doesn't even need to be in the same country as the match either. There's really no excuse.

I think you underestimate the complexity of broadcasting and the time delays involved, as well as how the TMO is getting the feed that is used for decision making.
Maybe get some of that detail before making a comment?

Blake wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:49 am
If a new set of officials were going to be in charge for the second test, I'd be inclined to agree with you. Then whatever happened in the first test is water under the bridge and Rassie and Nienaber should just move onto the next match. Nothing about the first test's decisions have any baring on the second test.

But that's not the case in this series. It's the exact set of officials, just shuffled around, so it is important for the Bok team to understand the rulings of the first test and adapt their tactics.
The fact that World Rugby is so slow to release the referee report of the match is problematic, in this unique edge case, and them being so dismissive of Rassie's formal request is what has led to him airing his grievances out in public.

There is an official process, it was followed, but the machinery at WR wasn't able to provide the report as required in the condensed timeframe; which puts the Boks in a bit of a bind because they need clarity on a couple of the calls that went against them or were ignored or were dismissed when Kolisi raised them in the match.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:29 am That is all total and utter bollocks.

You might have a point if Erasmus had said in a press conference that he was unhappy with some of the calls so he's keen to communicate and learn from the team of officials as they're going to be the same for all three tests. But he didn't do that. He made an hour long video implying they were either bent, incompetent, arrogant, stupid and/or all of the above.

He's an idiot.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:22 am WR should have sent a team of 5/6 officials who could all run the game if necessary, and one should be TMO. Not beyond the wit of man.

As ever, the test for Rassie's defenders should be 'how would I react if England had done this?'. I suspect not in the manner they are.