NPR

Glaston wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 4:41 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:19 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:15 pm Yeah whatever the government say there are definitely going to be blackouts this winter, the only question is how bad will they be

I really do not understand why nobody is campaigning now for lower energy use. As you've said people are voluntarily (many won't be voluntarily just can't pay) going to try and reduce consumption. How about a national campaign?

Especially as covid has shown that people in the UK are more likely to overreact than underreact and don't actually care about govt intervening.

UK has pretty low electricity use compared to France/Germany.

Off the top of my head, the very rough power figures are France 2X UK usage/ Germany 3X UK usage

Dogbert wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:12 pm Because Health and Safety Executive states employers are legally obliged to keep the indoor temperature comfortable.

Obviously this could go on the Bonfire of red tape

maybe we can use this bonfire to warm houses

GogLais wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:07 pm

Dogbert wrote: ↑Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:12 pm Because Health and Safety Executive states employers are legally obliged to keep the indoor temperature comfortable.

Obviously this could go on the Bonfire of red tape

maybe we can use this bonfire to warm houses

There’s probably an “as far as reasonably practicable” in there somewhere.

Energy consultancy Auxilione said that at today's prices the cap might rise to £4,722 in January before hitting £5,601 in April.

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:49 am How many households will sink below the poverty line if this happens?

Energy consultancy Auxilione said that at today's prices the cap might rise to £4,722 in January before hitting £5,601 in April.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:06 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:49 am How many households will sink below the poverty line if this happens?

Energy consultancy Auxilione said that at today's prices the cap might rise to £4,722 in January before hitting £5,601 in April.

It's becoming more and more likely Europe will start dropping sanctions on Russia. There's no way Europe wide economies can survive this. The home energy cost rises are dwarfed by costs to industry. Europe's economies just can't survive at these levels of energy cost.

petej wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:07 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:06 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:49 am How many households will sink below the poverty line if this happens?

It's becoming more and more likely Europe will start dropping sanctions on Russia. There's no way Europe wide economies can survive this. The home energy cost rises are dwarfed by costs to industry. Europe's economies just can't survive at these levels of energy cost.

Why are europe is in a worse position than us? They have more storage and they have less inflation as no brexit. If the dumb brexit nationalists realise that more uk oil and gas is being exported this year as the companies sell it to highest bidder.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:49 pm Uniper on the brink of insolvency. Terrible for Germany

petej wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:07 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:06 pm

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 11:49 am How many households will sink below the poverty line if this happens?

It's becoming more and more likely Europe will start dropping sanctions on Russia. There's no way Europe wide economies can survive this. The home energy cost rises are dwarfed by costs to industry. Europe's economies just can't survive at these levels of energy cost.

Why are europe is in a worse position than us? They have more storage and they have less inflation as no brexit. If the dumb brexit nationalists realise that more uk oil and gas is being exported this year as the companies sell it to highest bidder.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:49 pm Uniper on the brink of insolvency. Terrible for Germany

Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:17 am State owned electricity companies etc don't need to make billions of profit in their country though. And the state owned ones in other countries (I think France? owns a ton of Britains offshore wind) can still make a tidy profit to send back home to help out their own.

Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:17 am State owned electricity companies etc don't need to make billions of profit in their country though. And the state owned ones in other countries (I think France? owns a ton of Britains offshore wind) can still make a tidy profit to send back home to help out their own.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:03 pm You have to be really alert to find fixed rate tariffs with some suppliers, look at my supplier's offerings quickly three days ago, went back today to do some math only to find "no fixed rate tariffs at this time". Don't think it would have been worthwhile anyway at this time but does make you wonder if you could miss out on a deal - and for those without internet access it must be very disadvantageous.

Checked out Octopus and the unit rates were outrageous. And this being electricity supposedly 100% renewables which surely shouldn't be affected by wholesale gas prices? I know that at times wind generated power is reduced due to calm conditions but if supply has to be supplemented with non-renewable from the grid then it shouldn't be marketed as 100% renewables, surely - merely as an aim?

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:03 pm You have to be really alert to find fixed rate tariffs with some suppliers, look at my supplier's offerings quickly three days ago, went back today to do some math only to find "no fixed rate tariffs at this time". Don't think it would have been worthwhile anyway at this time but does make you wonder if you could miss out on a deal - and for those without internet access it must be very disadvantageous.

Checked out Octopus and the unit rates were outrageous. And this being electricity supposedly 100% renewables which surely shouldn't be affected by wholesale gas prices? I know that at times wind generated power is reduced due to calm conditions but if supply has to be supplemented with non-renewable from the grid then it shouldn't be marketed as 100% renewables, surely - merely as an aim?

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:18 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:03 pm You have to be really alert to find fixed rate tariffs with some suppliers, look at my supplier's offerings quickly three days ago, went back today to do some math only to find "no fixed rate tariffs at this time". Don't think it would have been worthwhile anyway at this time but does make you wonder if you could miss out on a deal - and for those without internet access it must be very disadvantageous.

Checked out Octopus and the unit rates were outrageous. And this being electricity supposedly 100% renewables which surely shouldn't be affected by wholesale gas prices? I know that at times wind generated power is reduced due to calm conditions but if supply has to be supplemented with non-renewable from the grid then it shouldn't be marketed as 100% renewables, surely - merely as an aim?

Renewables includes biomass, burnt in power stations. That will be in high demand and therefore high prices.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:25 pm

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:18 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:03 pm You have to be really alert to find fixed rate tariffs with some suppliers, look at my supplier's offerings quickly three days ago, went back today to do some math only to find "no fixed rate tariffs at this time". Don't think it would have been worthwhile anyway at this time but does make you wonder if you could miss out on a deal - and for those without internet access it must be very disadvantageous.

Checked out Octopus and the unit rates were outrageous. And this being electricity supposedly 100% renewables which surely shouldn't be affected by wholesale gas prices? I know that at times wind generated power is reduced due to calm conditions but if supply has to be supplemented with non-renewable from the grid then it shouldn't be marketed as 100% renewables, surely - merely as an aim?

Renewables includes biomass, burnt in power stations. That will be in high demand and therefore high prices.

I see, personally I wouldn't call anything you burn as "renewable", was rather thinking wind, hydroelectric, tidal but I guess they would be considered "green" instead...

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:18 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:03 pm You have to be really alert to find fixed rate tariffs with some suppliers, look at my supplier's offerings quickly three days ago, went back today to do some math only to find "no fixed rate tariffs at this time". Don't think it would have been worthwhile anyway at this time but does make you wonder if you could miss out on a deal - and for those without internet access it must be very disadvantageous.

Checked out Octopus and the unit rates were outrageous. And this being electricity supposedly 100% renewables which surely shouldn't be affected by wholesale gas prices? I know that at times wind generated power is reduced due to calm conditions but if supply has to be supplemented with non-renewable from the grid then it shouldn't be marketed as 100% renewables, surely - merely as an aim?

Renewables includes biomass, burnt in power stations. That will be in high demand and therefore high prices.

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:25 pm

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:18 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:03 pm You have to be really alert to find fixed rate tariffs with some suppliers, look at my supplier's offerings quickly three days ago, went back today to do some math only to find "no fixed rate tariffs at this time". Don't think it would have been worthwhile anyway at this time but does make you wonder if you could miss out on a deal - and for those without internet access it must be very disadvantageous.

Checked out Octopus and the unit rates were outrageous. And this being electricity supposedly 100% renewables which surely shouldn't be affected by wholesale gas prices? I know that at times wind generated power is reduced due to calm conditions but if supply has to be supplemented with non-renewable from the grid then it shouldn't be marketed as 100% renewables, surely - merely as an aim?

Renewables includes biomass, burnt in power stations. That will be in high demand and therefore high prices.

I see, personally I wouldn't call anything you burn as "renewable", was rather thinking wind, hydroelectric, tidal but I guess they would be considered "green" instead...

Dinsdale Piranha wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:51 pmAt industrial scale it's mostly leftovers from forestry and agriculture. you burn it, you grow more. That's pretty renewable.

My cousin has a biogas plant on his farm. That takes animal waste and crops and the gas is sold to a power station. It's a pretty efficient use of resources.

TB63 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 9:00 pm Some farmers turned to planting willow as a biomass crop, harvest in 3 years on a cycle..

petej wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:03 pm

Raggs wrote: ↑Thu Aug 18, 2022 8:17 am State owned electricity companies etc don't need to make billions of profit in their country though. And the state owned ones in other countries (I think France? owns a ton of Britains offshore wind) can still make a tidy profit to send back home to help out their own.

EDF, Eon and RWE all have some. SSE have quite a lot. We currently have approx 12GW off shore capacity with 18GW planned but hoping to get a further 20GW planned and built in this decade to reach 50GW capacity.

I surprised there isn't more of a government drive to encourage solar and batteries particularly trying to nudge and encourage the older and/or better off demographics (maybe some patriotic uk energy self-sufficiency). Any lowering of grid demand is a plus.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:56 am The UK government spox saying yesterday households don't need to cut back on energy. They DO because of the cost of it. It's such nonsense ideology. (a) everyone is cutting back anyway due to the cost and (b) people easily would club together as with covid. It's just incredibly frustrating.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:34 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:56 am The UK government spox saying yesterday households don't need to cut back on energy. They DO because of the cost of it. It's such nonsense ideology. (a) everyone is cutting back anyway due to the cost and (b) people easily would club together as with covid. It's just incredibly frustrating.

They should just go full bore, & give families free LED / CFL lights, & draft excluders, & other simple & cheap energy reduction fixes; & then have a ten year strategy of insulating the shit out of houses.

For this winter, all of Europe needs to learn lessons from Countries that deal with severe cold every year, & reduce the energy requirements across the board.

One of my Aunts was from North Dakota, & when she & my Uncle retired to Ireland, to a damp & cold house in Galway, one of the first things they did was staple a sheet of plastic inside all the windows (as they do in ND), to reduce the heat leakage. I know the conventional wisdom is that this will cause mold, & CO could be a problem, but the reality was the CO source was in a shed with a gale blowing thru it, & the leakage from all the places they couldn't plug, & a CO alarm meant they never saw the doomsday predictions.

There are a lot of simple solutions that can combine to save 1-2% of national energy requirements, without any serious work, but someone needs to put them together & publish them, before the schools are back !

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:54 pm Labour should start releasing energy saving tips to follow immediately and put pressure on them.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:54 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:34 pm

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:56 am The UK government spox saying yesterday households don't need to cut back on energy. They DO because of the cost of it. It's such nonsense ideology. (a) everyone is cutting back anyway due to the cost and (b) people easily would club together as with covid. It's just incredibly frustrating.

They should just go full bore, & give families free LED / CFL lights, & draft excluders, & other simple & cheap energy reduction fixes; & then have a ten year strategy of insulating the shit out of houses.

For this winter, all of Europe needs to learn lessons from Countries that deal with severe cold every year, & reduce the energy requirements across the board.

One of my Aunts was from North Dakota, & when she & my Uncle retired to Ireland, to a damp & cold house in Galway, one of the first things they did was staple a sheet of plastic inside all the windows (as they do in ND), to reduce the heat leakage. I know the conventional wisdom is that this will cause mold, & CO could be a problem, but the reality was the CO source was in a shed with a gale blowing thru it, & the leakage from all the places they couldn't plug, & a CO alarm meant they never saw the doomsday predictions.

There are a lot of simple solutions that can combine to save 1-2% of national energy requirements, without any serious work, but someone needs to put them together & publish them, before the schools are back !

The UK has reduction templates from every country in Europe it can follow because none of them are insane enough to say "don't cut your energy consumption". It's really beggars belief the Tories have come up with nothing. I just can't believe they all know Truss is winning and continue with this nonsense of inaction.

Labour should start releasing energy saving tips to follow immediately and put pressure on them.

dkm57 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:16 am Another idea would to cover warehouse roofs in solar panels, the amount of available space huge and VARTs along the M'ways and dual carriageways. Even if it required grant assistance the payback in the long term would be very significant. I know Scotland is already self sufficient in renewables but we've barely begun to exploit our resources of wind, wave, tidal, hydro solar and geothermal. If Western Europe had got their act together they wouldn't need Russian oil.

MungoMan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 8:17 am Youse euros need to take a series of deep, slow breaths to drop your heart-rate a bit. The notion that skyrocketing energy prices are principally a European phenomenon fails the test of fact.

And yes, I get that you don’t necessarily give a tinker’s about what’s happening outside pastyville. In this case, tho’, what’s happening outside Europe is kinda crucial since so many of you are belabouring the point about energy prices and export/import competitiveness.

Here’s the thing: opportunity cost doesn’t disappear just because a country is outside Europe and / or isn’t reliant on Russia for oil, gas or coal.

Here in Straya, for example, export prices of the latter two commodities have responded to the new international benchmarks and hence domestic prices have shadowed that. Similar effects are being seen in other national economies largely dependent on FF energy and exposed to market conditions.

dkm57 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 24, 2022 7:16 am Another idea would to cover warehouse roofs in solar panels, the amount of available space huge and VARTs along the M'ways and dual carriageways. Even if it required grant assistance the payback in the long term would be very significant. I know Scotland is already self sufficient in renewables but we've barely begun to exploit our resources of wind, wave, tidal, hydro solar and geothermal. If Western Europe had got their act together they wouldn't need Russian oil.