Official Paris Olympics 2024 thread

[Biffer]

On an entirely different topic, today I learned that Scotland won a bronze medal in the field hockey tournament in the 1908 Olympics, playing as Scotland.

England got the gold and Ireland the siver

Yeah, and Wales got the other bronze

[Calculon]

Had the boxing on in the background.

The commentators "Carini must be mad about something"... Commentator knows why but rather than treat the audience as grown ups they bring up that Carini is emotional and it could be about losing her Dad after Tokyo. The Italian was heard shouting "It is not right" after the final announcement.

Regardless of what one believes about the rights and the wrongs about who is competing in the boxing, the commentator should be truthful. There is controversary because the IOC have taken over running Olympic boxing from the IBA. The IBA had banned Khelif from the world championships due to not meeting the eligibility criteria to compete in the female boxing category. They are believed to have failed gender tests. The IOC apply a different set of rules and therefore two boxers are allowed to complete.

The IBA are incompetent clowns so their test could have been rubbish but those are the facts, and shouldn't be offensive to anyone if a commentator states them rather then talking absolute bollocks about someones upset about their Dad who died three years ago.

Does the IOC even have their own set of rules in place? All i can see is they supply advice, that is very "inclusive", to other sporting bodies

IOC rules on gender eligibility

The advice published by the IOC in 2021 to help give governing bodies support in determining rules around gender eligibility stated that no athlete should be excluded from competing based on an "unverified, alleged or perceived unfair competitive advantage due to their sex variations, physical appearance and/or transgender status."

The IOC document is not legally binding, but it clearly states what it expects from governing bodies responsible for regulating their own sports.

"Athletes should be allowed to compete but unfair advantage needs to be regulated," the IOC document says.

[Blackmac]

Had the boxing on in the background.

The commentators "Carini must be mad about something"... Commentator knows why but rather than treat the audience as grown ups they bring up that Carini is emotional and it could be about losing her Dad after Tokyo. The Italian was heard shouting "It is not right" after the final announcement.

Regardless of what one believes about the rights and the wrongs about who is competing in the boxing, the commentator should be truthful. There is controversary because the IOC have taken over running Olympic boxing from the IBA. The IBA had banned Khelif from the world championships due to not meeting the eligibility criteria to compete in the female boxing category. They are believed to have failed gender tests. The IOC apply a different set of rules and therefore two boxers are allowed to complete.

The IBA are incompetent clowns so their test could have been rubbish but those are the facts, and shouldn't be offensive to anyone if a commentator states them rather then talking absolute bollocks about someones upset about their Dad who died three years ago.

Does the IOC even have their own set of rules in place? All i can see is they supply advice, that is very "inclusive", to other sporting bodies

IOC rules on gender eligibility

The advice published by the IOC in 2021 to help give governing bodies support in determining rules around gender eligibility stated that no athlete should be excluded from competing based on an "unverified, alleged or perceived unfair competitive advantage due to their sex variations, physical appearance and/or transgender status."

The IOC document is not legally binding, but it clearly states what it expects from governing bodies responsible for regulating their own sports.

"Athletes should be allowed to compete but unfair advantage needs to be regulated," the IOC document says.

Fucking BBC doesn't even mention what the issue is, just that he failed eligibility rules. pathetic.

[Biffer]

Had the boxing on in the background.

The commentators "Carini must be mad about something"... Commentator knows why but rather than treat the audience as grown ups they bring up that Carini is emotional and it could be about losing her Dad after Tokyo. The Italian was heard shouting "It is not right" after the final announcement.

Regardless of what one believes about the rights and the wrongs about who is competing in the boxing, the commentator should be truthful. There is controversary because the IOC have taken over running Olympic boxing from the IBA. The IBA had banned Khelif from the world championships due to not meeting the eligibility criteria to compete in the female boxing category. They are believed to have failed gender tests. The IOC apply a different set of rules and therefore two boxers are allowed to complete.

The IBA are incompetent clowns so their test could have been rubbish but those are the facts, and shouldn't be offensive to anyone if a commentator states them rather then talking absolute bollocks about someones upset about their Dad who died three years ago.

Does the IOC even have their own set of rules in place? All i can see is they supply advice, that is very "inclusive", to other sporting bodies

IOC rules on gender eligibility

The advice published by the IOC in 2021 to help give governing bodies support in determining rules around gender eligibility stated that no athlete should be excluded from competing based on an "unverified, alleged or perceived unfair competitive advantage due to their sex variations, physical appearance and/or transgender status."

The IOC document is not legally binding, but it clearly states what it expects from governing bodies responsible for regulating their own sports.

"Athletes should be allowed to compete but unfair advantage needs to be regulated," the IOC document says.

Fucking BBC doesn't even mention what the issue is, just that he failed eligibility rules. pathetic.

How is someone born with female genitalia meant to know they have xy chromosomes?

[Biffer]

More broadly on this topic, the IOC and other major sporting bodies addressing the topic of intersex athletes is well overdue. They just brushed it under the carpet with Caster Semenya, and they’ll probably do it again here. Despite the fact that it gives them a natural science basis to define who qualifies as a woman in sport.

[petej]

More broadly on this topic, the IOC and other major sporting bodies addressing the topic of intersex athletes is well overdue. They just brushed it under the carpet with Caster Semenya, and they’ll probably do it again here. Despite the fact that it gives them a natural science basis to define who qualifies as a woman in sport.

It is really not very hard. They are just being gutless. Mens sport is open category and women's sport is a closed category to those with xx chromosomes. These individuals trans or intersex always appear to opt for women's sport precisely because it is an advantage.

[Biffer]

More broadly on this topic, the IOC and other major sporting bodies addressing the topic of intersex athletes is well overdue. They just brushed it under the carpet with Caster Semenya, and they’ll probably do it again here. Despite the fact that it gives them a natural science basis to define who qualifies as a woman in sport.

It is really not very hard. They are just being gutless. Mens sport is open category and women's sport is a closed category to those with xx chromosomes. These individuals trans or intersex always appear to opt for women's sport precisely because it is an advantage.

Which level of sport do you start testing at? Have you ever had your chromosomal make up checked? Played any sport?

There are XX intersex conditions as well, which of these are you including or do you just think those are ok?

And well done on eliding trans and intersex there, precisely the point I was making about the two things being blended into one when they’re often very different circumstances.

Edit, also are you allowing women into men’s gymnastic competitions if you’re just saying men’s competitions are no open? Or diving?

[Calculon]

More broadly on this topic, the IOC and other major sporting bodies addressing the topic of intersex athletes is well overdue. They just brushed it under the carpet with Caster Semenya, and they’ll probably do it again here. Despite the fact that it gives them a natural science basis to define who qualifies as a woman in sport.

It is really not very hard. They are just being gutless. Mens sport is open category and women's sport is a closed category to those with xx chromosomes. These individuals trans or intersex always appear to opt for women's sport precisely because it is an advantage.

Which level of sport do you start testing at? Have you ever had your chromosomal make up checked? Played any sport?

There are XX intersex conditions as well, which of these are you including or do you just think those are ok?

And well done on eliding trans and intersex there, precisely the point I was making about the two things being blended into one when they’re often very different circumstances.

Edit, also are you allowing women into men’s gymnastic competitions if you’re just saying men’s competitions are no open? Or diving?

leave testing up to the sporting bodies but make it a requirement for olympic participation.

if they're XX male syndrome and SRY-positive they're going to have a typical male phenotype so unlikely to participate in female competition but in that unlikley event or if there is genital ambiguity they can also set limits on allowable blood testosterone level like the IAAF does

there's not going to be a perfect solution but the current situation is a farce

[Sandstorm]

make testing a requirement for olympic participation.

This

[Slick]

make testing a requirement for olympic participation.

This

Isn't an intersex boxer likely to do more damage to an opponent far under Olympic standard?

[Biffer]

make testing a requirement for olympic participation.

This

Isn't an intersex boxer likely to do more damage to an opponent far under Olympic standard?

Exactly.

The number and variety of conditions involved here automatically precludes simple black and white decisions.

This all goes back to the idea that sex is 100% binary. That’s factually untrue and some people are very uncomfortable with that.

[Sandstorm]

make testing a requirement for olympic participation.

This

Isn't an intersex boxer likely to do more damage to an opponent far under Olympic standard?

Of course, which is why Calculon said: "Leave it up to the sporting body"

But since this is an Olympic thread about an event in the Olympics, I didn't bother to include that here.

[Biffer]

In lighter news

[Insane_Homer]

We need a Trans Olympic games,

Where a bunch of men who ID as women compete for women's medals and bunch of women who ID as men compete for men's medals?

PS this is JOKE, a shit one, so no need to get testerical.

[petej]

More broadly on this topic, the IOC and other major sporting bodies addressing the topic of intersex athletes is well overdue. They just brushed it under the carpet with Caster Semenya, and they’ll probably do it again here. Despite the fact that it gives them a natural science basis to define who qualifies as a woman in sport.

It is really not very hard. They are just being gutless. Mens sport is open category and women's sport is a closed category to those with xx chromosomes. These individuals trans or intersex always appear to opt for women's sport precisely because it is an advantage.

Which level of sport do you start testing at? Have you ever had your chromosomal make up checked? Played any sport?

There are XX intersex conditions as well, which of these are you including or do you just think those are ok?

And well done on eliding trans and intersex there, precisely the point I was making about the two things being blended into one when they’re often very different circumstances.

Edit, also are you allowing women into men’s gymnastic competitions if you’re just saying men’s competitions are no open? Or diving?

Certainly elite level sport and professional sport which to be honest is mostly where this is an issue.

[Calculon]

This

Isn't an intersex boxer likely to do more damage to an opponent far under Olympic standard?

Exactly.

The number and variety of conditions involved here automatically precludes simple black and white decisions.

This all goes back to the idea that sex is 100% binary. That’s factually untrue and some people are very uncomfortable with that.

The ones who seem most uncomforatble with it are the IOC who appearto be too scared to deal with the situation other than pretending everything is fine. And being complicated, and i havent seen anyone specifically denying the existance of disorders of sex development, shouldn't be an excuse for inaction from them. Other sporting bodies have devised solutions that may not be perfect, but is still a great deal better than the IOC that doesnt have any actual rules in place

[Random1]

This

Isn't an intersex boxer likely to do more damage to an opponent far under Olympic standard?

Exactly.

The number and variety of conditions involved here automatically precludes simple black and white decisions.

This all goes back to the idea that sex is 100% binary. That’s factually untrue and some people are very uncomfortable with that.

It’s not factually untrue.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

More broadly on this topic, the IOC and other major sporting bodies addressing the topic of intersex athletes is well overdue. They just brushed it under the carpet with Caster Semenya, and they’ll probably do it again here. Despite the fact that it gives them a natural science basis to define who qualifies as a woman in sport.

It is really not very hard. They are just being gutless. Mens sport is open category and women's sport is a closed category to those with xx chromosomes. These individuals trans or intersex always appear to opt for women's sport precisely because it is an advantage.

Which level of sport do you start testing at? Have you ever had your chromosomal make up checked? Played any sport?

There are XX intersex conditions as well, which of these are you including or do you just think those are ok?

And well done on eliding trans and intersex there, precisely the point I was making about the two things being blended into one when they’re often very different circumstances.

Edit, also are you allowing women into men’s gymnastic competitions if you’re just saying men’s competitions are no open? Or diving?

Once you get past puberty, women competing in men's categories isn't really an issue as for the most part they won't be able to. The male/female difference is far too big. This is why several sports are moving towards an open category and a protected female category. Women aren't going to qualify for men's gymnastics or diving. If we has women who were good enough to compete then I don't see a problem - it would be very impressive.

While culturally they are different issues, from a physical development perspective the trans/intersex issue is the same issue. It's people with male physical development competing in female categories.

[Biffer]

Isn't an intersex boxer likely to do more damage to an opponent far under Olympic standard?

Exactly.

The number and variety of conditions involved here automatically precludes simple black and white decisions.

This all goes back to the idea that sex is 100% binary. That’s factually untrue and some people are very uncomfortable with that.

It’s not factually untrue.

Aye it is.

[Random1]

Exactly.

The number and variety of conditions involved here automatically precludes simple black and white decisions.

This all goes back to the idea that sex is 100% binary. That’s factually untrue and some people are very uncomfortable with that.

It’s not factually untrue.

Aye it is.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36543364/

[Calculon]

Isn't an intersex boxer likely to do more damage to an opponent far under Olympic standard?

Exactly.

The number and variety of conditions involved here automatically precludes simple black and white decisions.

This all goes back to the idea that sex is 100% binary. That’s factually untrue and some people are very uncomfortable with that.

It’s not factually untrue.

Sex in mammals is not 100% binary but it is overwhelmingly so and the very rare exceptions do not negate the concept of sex as binary, and should also not serve as an excuse to allow intersex athletes to compete in the female category

[Biffer]

It’s not factually untrue.

Aye it is.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36543364/

Oooohhhh, let’s swap individual papers!

https://academic.oup.com/icb/article/63 ... ogin=false

[Biffer]

Exactly.

The number and variety of conditions involved here automatically precludes simple black and white decisions.

This all goes back to the idea that sex is 100% binary. That’s factually untrue and some people are very uncomfortable with that.

It’s not factually untrue.

Sex in mammals is not 100% binary but it is overwhelmingly so and the very rare exceptions do not negate the concept of sex as binary, and should also not serve as an excuse to allow intersex athletes to compete in the female category

I haven’t said that they should.

[Slick]

Exactly.

The number and variety of conditions involved here automatically precludes simple black and white decisions.

This all goes back to the idea that sex is 100% binary. That’s factually untrue and some people are very uncomfortable with that.

It’s not factually untrue.

Sex in mammals is not 100% binary but it is overwhelmingly so and the very rare exceptions do not negate the concept of sex as binary, and should also not serve as an excuse to allow intersex athletes to compete in the female category

This

[Slick]

It’s very British to have Andy Murray’s games on iPlayer when he’s winning but switch to the main channel when he looks like losing.

Of course Murray being Murray he then wins a set he shouldn’t

[petej]

It’s not factually untrue.

Sex in mammals is not 100% binary but it is overwhelmingly so and the very rare exceptions do not negate the concept of sex as binary, and should also not serve as an excuse to allow intersex athletes to compete in the female category

This

[JM2K6]

Had the boxing on in the background.

The commentators "Carini must be mad about something"... Commentator knows why but rather than treat the audience as grown ups they bring up that Carini is emotional and it could be about losing her Dad after Tokyo. The Italian was heard shouting "It is not right" after the final announcement.

Regardless of what one believes about the rights and the wrongs about who is competing in the boxing, the commentator should be truthful. There is controversary because the IOC have taken over running Olympic boxing from the IBA. The IBA had banned Khelif from the world championships due to not meeting the eligibility criteria to compete in the female boxing category. They are believed to have failed gender tests. The IOC apply a different set of rules and therefore two boxers are allowed to complete.

The IBA are incompetent clowns so their test could have been rubbish but those are the facts, and shouldn't be offensive to anyone if a commentator states them rather then talking absolute bollocks about someones upset about their Dad who died three years ago.

From what little is actually stated about this, it sounds as if Khelif has an intersex condition, rather than being a trans athlete.

One of the small percentage of people that contradicts the rather dumb idea that everyone is either a man or a woman, and there’s no other possibility.

Sounds like men and intersex fighters still shouldn't be in the ring battering women.

Not sure how that applies to the woman who won the fight. Incidentally, her record is relatively unremarkable, she has very few KOs, has plenty of losses, and has competed for years without issue except for what seems to be an extremely dodgy IBA interruption.

Her opponent threw a shit jab that left her wide open, copped a decent punch flush to the face, and quit. Wasn't knocked out, wasn't "battered", wasn't knocked off her feet, wasn't even groggy. One punch that hurt, and she quit.

The IOC's statement on this also pulls no punches:

[Calculon]

Nah, that’s a pretty weak statement

Their passports says they’re female and they’ve been boxing as females for a while so what can we do, hey - and besides we have to respect the human rights of these athletes (but presumable not the female athletes that have to compete against non-females.)

and we also can’t change eligibility criteria mid competition (true, they should have realized this shit storm was going to happen well before the Olympics), and the last paragraph is just saying we told the boxing federations to sort it out before the next games otherwise boxing won’t be included (so we are addressing the issue and it won’t happen again)

[Guy Smiley]

(but presumable not the female athletes that have to compete against non-females.)

there's your problem

[Uncle fester]

Intersex - 46XY DSD being the common one and likely in this case - still means full male development during puberty. They are male with all the strength advantages of that. Boxing is the sport where this is the most dangerous as punching power is where the difference between males and females is the greatest.

Yeah, I’m not defending their participation here, I’m just highlighting that most coverage of this has been incredibly lazy and as such SM has assumed they’re trans. And as you’ll know, people are very often unaware of it themselves.

Calling the coverage lazy is putting a VERY generous spin on it.

I'd call it deliberately misleading.

It goes back to the Caster saga. Is it right that intimate details of her medical condition and body get plastered on media for three world to see?

It's certainly not right that the DAC's of the world get to set the agenda on this.

Probably unpopular slant in this, maybe Carini is soft as wet shite?

[bok_viking]

Maybe the best would be that they just do the same as they do with Paralympics sports, have different classes that athletes compete in.
But when it comes to sports that depends on strength, I cannot see how anyone can think it is ok that someone that grew up as a male during their teen years does not have an advantage over those who were born female no matter how long they identify as female afterwards. Even the treatments they undergo will never fully erase the changes muscles underwent during the male puberty time.

[JM2K6]

Nah, that’s a pretty weak statement

Their passports says they’re female and they’ve been boxing as females for a while so what can we do, hey - and besides we have to respect the human rights of these athletes (but presumable not the female athletes that have to compete against non-females.)

and we also can’t change eligibility criteria mid competition (true, they should have realized this shit storm was going to happen well before the Olympics), and the last paragraph is just saying we told the boxing federations to sort it out before the next games otherwise boxing won’t be included (so we are addressing the issue and it won’t happen again)

You've completely ignored the bit about the IBA. Where is the evidence she's not a woman? It's claim made by a disgraced and laughably corrupt organisation - even by boxing standards - who suddenly banned her right after she beat Russian and Uzbek fighters and have refused to provide any details.

In any other scenario, a boxer who quits at the start of the fight after a regulation punch from an opponent not known for their power would be viewed with incredible suspicion, and yet here we are. Have people seen the "fight"? It's astonishing.

[JM2K6]

Maybe the best would be that they just do the same as they do with Paralympics sports, have different classes that athletes compete in.
But when it comes to sports that depends on strength, I cannot see how anyone can think it is ok that someone that grew up as a male during their teen years does not have an advantage over those who were born female no matter how long they identify as female afterwards. Even the treatments they undergo will never fully erase the changes muscles underwent during the male puberty time.

She was born a woman and grew up a woman and identifies as a woman because she is one. This is not a self ID thing. She is not trans. There isn't even any evidence she's intersex.

[Slick]

Yeah, I’m not defending their participation here, I’m just highlighting that most coverage of this has been incredibly lazy and as such SM has assumed they’re trans. And as you’ll know, people are very often unaware of it themselves.

Calling the coverage lazy is putting a VERY generous spin on it.

I'd call it deliberately misleading.

It goes back to the Caster saga. Is it right that intimate details of her medical condition and body get plastered on media for three world to see?

It's certainly not right that the DAC's of the world get to set the agenda on this.

Probably unpopular slant in this, maybe Carini is soft as wet shite?

Unpopular? Maybe. Pretty daft? She's an Olympic boxer who has also won medals at the Worlds, so you can probably answer that yourself.

[S/Lt_Phillips]

Maybe the best would be that they just do the same as they do with Paralympics sports, have different classes that athletes compete in.
But when it comes to sports that depends on strength, I cannot see how anyone can think it is ok that someone that grew up as a male during their teen years does not have an advantage over those who were born female no matter how long they identify as female afterwards. Even the treatments they undergo will never fully erase the changes muscles underwent during the male puberty time.

She was born a woman and grew up a woman and identifies as a woman because she is one. This is not a self ID thing. She is not trans. There isn't even any evidence she's intersex.

Do we know that? Or is it just that the evidence isn't in the public domain? Certainly the Italian fighter seemed to think there was something dodgy (she shouted "it's not right") - though she might not be the most objective witness, to be fair.

I wonder if the IOC might have unwittingly left themselves open to legal action here. Pure speculation, but I would imagine that boxers have an understanding (or signed waiver?) that they allow themselves to be assaulted by their opponents (by legal definition), but does that understanding extend to a female being assaulted by someone who is genetically male? If the two boxers in question are indeed 46XY, then it could be argued that the IOC have been negligent in allowing this situation that the IBA has already dealt with. This is not athletics, it's well known that boxing can cause serious trauma, so allowing genetic males to fight females could represent a significant risk that the IOC did not plan for.

And yes, this is viewing gender as 100% binary (I'm sure some will remind me that's not the case), but I'm talking about the potential for legal action. Caster Semenya's case highlights that the courts are more likely to have a definitive view.

[JM2K6]

Maybe the best would be that they just do the same as they do with Paralympics sports, have different classes that athletes compete in.
But when it comes to sports that depends on strength, I cannot see how anyone can think it is ok that someone that grew up as a male during their teen years does not have an advantage over those who were born female no matter how long they identify as female afterwards. Even the treatments they undergo will never fully erase the changes muscles underwent during the male puberty time.

She was born a woman and grew up a woman and identifies as a woman because she is one. This is not a self ID thing. She is not trans. There isn't even any evidence she's intersex.

Do we know that? Or is it just that the evidence isn't in the public domain? Certainly the Italian fighter seemed to think there was something dodgy (she shouted "it's not right") - though she might not be the most objective witness, to be fair.

I wonder if the IOC might have unwittingly left themselves open to legal action here. Pure speculation, but I would imagine that boxers have an understanding (or signed waiver?) that they allow themselves to be assaulted by their opponents (by legal definition), but does that understanding extend to a female being assaulted by someone who is genetically male? If the two boxers in question are indeed 46XY, then it could be argued that the IOC have been negligent in allowing this situation that the IBA has already dealt with. This is not athletics, it's well known that boxing can cause serious trauma, so allowing genetic males to fight females could represent a significant risk that the IOC did not plan for.

And yes, this is viewing gender as 100% binary (I'm sure some will remind me that's not the case), but I'm talking about the potential for legal action. Caster Semenya's case highlights that the courts are more likely to have a definitive view.

Literally the only "evidence" is the extremely dodgy IBA accusation, for which they've repeatedly failed to provide any detail on the testing, let alone actual results.

Khelif has been competing for years without being a problem. She didn't win a medal at the previous Games, isn't considered a heavy hitter in her weight class, has a reasonable but not incredible record, and is very clearly not the poster child for "the dangers of men fighting women", but that's not stopping the people who feed the culture war.

Carini’s record isn't as good but I was shocked by the fight - it didn't look like a man vs a woman, it looked like a good woman boxer against an untrained one who quit as soon as she fucked up. And I would've expected Carini to be far, far better than that.

[Biffer]

Maybe the best would be that they just do the same as they do with Paralympics sports, have different classes that athletes compete in.
But when it comes to sports that depends on strength, I cannot see how anyone can think it is ok that someone that grew up as a male during their teen years does not have an advantage over those who were born female no matter how long they identify as female afterwards. Even the treatments they undergo will never fully erase the changes muscles underwent during the male puberty time.

She was born a woman and grew up a woman and identifies as a woman because she is one. This is not a self ID thing. She is not trans. There isn't even any evidence she's intersex.

Do we know that? Or is it just that the evidence isn't in the public domain? Certainly the Italian fighter seemed to think there was something dodgy (she shouted "it's not right") - though she might not be the most objective witness, to be fair.

I wonder if the IOC might have unwittingly left themselves open to legal action here. Pure speculation, but I would imagine that boxers have an understanding (or signed waiver?) that they allow themselves to be assaulted by their opponents (by legal definition), but does that understanding extend to a female being assaulted by someone who is genetically male? If the two boxers in question are indeed 46XY, then it could be argued that the IOC have been negligent in allowing this situation that the IBA has already dealt with. This is not athletics, it's well known that boxing can cause serious trauma, so allowing genetic males to fight females could represent a significant risk that the IOC did not plan for.

And yes, this is viewing gender as 100% binary (I'm sure some will remind me that's not the case), but I'm talking about the potential for legal action. Caster Semenya's case highlights that the courts are more likely to have a definitive view.

Is there any evidence that you're not (insert criminality or perversion of your choice here) that's just not in the public domain?

See how easy that is?

The only organisation that's actually accused her is a Russian led, discredited and corrupt one that isn't clear on what she's failed and in their minutes say the decision was taken by the CEO rather than a testing body.

If you want a reasonable view on it, it's worth spending the time to Find Steve Bunce on Radio five this morning, think it was just before seven am.

[Uncle fester]

Calling the coverage lazy is putting a VERY generous spin on it.

I'd call it deliberately misleading.

It goes back to the Caster saga. Is it right that intimate details of her medical condition and body get plastered on media for three world to see?

It's certainly not right that the DAC's of the world get to set the agenda on this.

Probably unpopular slant in this, maybe Carini is soft as wet shite?

Unpopular? Maybe. Pretty daft? She's an Olympic boxer who has also won medals at the Worlds, so you can probably answer that yourself.

I went to the trouble of watching the fight and it's pretty glaring.

[Sandstorm]

In any other scenario, a boxer who quits at the start of the fight after a regulation punch from an opponent not known for their power would be viewed with incredible suspicion, and yet here we are. Have people seen the "fight"? It's astonishing.

You're not wrong here, JM. I watched it later and the Italian bird quit faster than Paula Radcliff when the going got a little warm. Full Italian WWII-surrender mode.
It wasn't a battering at all.

The other fighter looks rather blokey vs the cuter Italian and the media have gone to town as usual.

[JM2K6]

In any other scenario, a boxer who quits at the start of the fight after a regulation punch from an opponent not known for their power would be viewed with incredible suspicion, and yet here we are. Have people seen the "fight"? It's astonishing.

You're not wrong here, JM. I watched it later and the Italian bird quit faster than Paula Radcliff when the going got a little warm. Full Italian WWII-surrender mode.
It wasn't a battering at all.

The other fighter looks rather blokey vs the cuter Italian and the media have gone to town as usual.

The fact that she's a non white north African who looks masculine by certain western standards is clearly a big part of it, sadly.

I don't want to believe that Carini did this on purpose. Charitably you could say that maybe she was a mess before the fight and quit because she knew she wasn't in any position to compete against a serious opponent. However, the circumstances of the fight itself, the weird behaviour afterwards, the claims of a broken nose despite looking picture perfect after the fight, and her coach saying people were telling her before the fight not to do it because Khelif is a man and it's dangerous... I can't help but be deeply suspicious of all of this. I hope I'm wrong.