NPR

Cannot be delayed according to the constitution. If there is no election, Trump will be out anyway as his term will be over.

To be fair, trump should know about fraudulently voting by mail, having been caught doing it himself more than once. It's so rare that he's statistically significant in the figures

Fangle wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:11 pm Cannot be delayed according to the constitution. If there is no election, Trump will be out anyway as his term will be over.

As I understand it, the Speaker would take over, so all hail President Pelosi! (Spaceballs).

I can only imagine the Executive Orders he would attempt to spew out before they dragged him out of the White House.

However, I wouldn't put it past the American electorate to vote him back in.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:55 pm

Fangle wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:11 pm Cannot be delayed according to the constitution. If there is no election, Trump will be out anyway as his term will be over.

As I understand it, the Speaker would take over, so all hail President Pelosi! (Spaceballs).

I can only imagine the Executive Orders he would attempt to spew out before they dragged him out of the White House.

However, I wouldn't put it past the American electorate to vote him back in.

If there's no Presidential election you'd think there'd be no Congressional elections, on which basis there mayn't be a congress to put forward Pelosi as the Speaker

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:47 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:55 pm

Fangle wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:11 pm Cannot be delayed according to the constitution. If there is no election, Trump will be out anyway as his term will be over.

As I understand it, the Speaker would take over, so all hail President Pelosi! (Spaceballs).

I can only imagine the Executive Orders he would attempt to spew out before they dragged him out of the White House.

However, I wouldn't put it past the American electorate to vote him back in.

If there's no Presidential election you'd think there'd be no Congressional elections, on which basis there mayn't be a congress to put forward Pelosi as the Speaker

There's differing opinions there. However next would be the Senate - but only two thirds of them would have jobs, and there would be a Democrat majority there. SO the Speaker pro-tem in that scenario would get the job. By tradition that would be Patrick Leahy, as it's usually the oldest member of the majority, but there's nothing stopping it from being anyone the majority elects. So Liz or Bernie would be most likely......

Saint wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:04 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:47 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:55 pm

As I understand it, the Speaker would take over, so all hail President Pelosi! (Spaceballs).

I can only imagine the Executive Orders he would attempt to spew out before they dragged him out of the White House.

However, I wouldn't put it past the American electorate to vote him back in.

If there's no Presidential election you'd think there'd be no Congressional elections, on which basis there mayn't be a congress to put forward Pelosi as the Speaker

There's differing opinions there. However next would be the Senate - but only two thirds of them would have jobs, and there would be a Democrat majority there. SO the Speaker pro-tem in that scenario would get the job. By tradition that would be Patrick Leahy, as it's usually the oldest member of the majority, but there's nothing stopping it from being anyone the majority elects. So Liz or Bernie would be most likely......

Maybe between the Governors and the State Legislators they could reappoint the current Congress or who they think their voters want. If it goes to the Senate is it the majority of the 2/3rds, or are we again looking at the GoGovernors and the State Legislators to appoint people to Congress, in this case the Senate, absent of a vote from the general public?

All sort of outcomes seem possible, none of them pleasant

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:24 pm

Saint wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:04 pm

Rhubarb & Custard wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:47 pm

If there's no Presidential election you'd think there'd be no Congressional elections, on which basis there mayn't be a congress to put forward Pelosi as the Speaker

There's differing opinions there. However next would be the Senate - but only two thirds of them would have jobs, and there would be a Democrat majority there. SO the Speaker pro-tem in that scenario would get the job. By tradition that would be Patrick Leahy, as it's usually the oldest member of the majority, but there's nothing stopping it from being anyone the majority elects. So Liz or Bernie would be most likely......

Maybe between the Governors and the State Legislators they could reappoint the current Congress or who they think their voters want. If it goes to the Senate is it the majority of the 2/3rds, or are we again looking at the GoGovernors and the State Legislators to appoint people to Congress, in this case the Senate, absent of a vote from the general public?

All sort of outcomes seem possible, none of them pleasant

All sorts of things could theoretically happen. But, loads of people lose their jobs at noon on the 20th. So no-one can be replaced till then. Even if the governor's send appoint replacement senators, there's a couple of issues

1 - In some cases they're from different parties
2 - they need to be sworn in before they can take part. But the Senate would be in session in the meantime

So, you could end up with a Democrat majority anyway; or you could have a Democrat majority for a day or two who effectively select the next President. There is very little upside for the GOP here as they're as uninterested in a constitutional crisis as anyone - but Trump really doesn't give a damn about that.

Fortunately it isn't Donald's decision

So I'm going to guess that WH are dusting off the GOPs School Shooting press playbook, for Herman Cains death.

- Thoughts & Prayers
- Too soon to discuss why it happened
- Be outraged if someone asks if Tulsa was a great idea.
- Storm offstage

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:40 pm So I'm going to guess that WH are dusting off the GOPs School Shooting press playbook, for Herman Cains death.

- Thoughts & Prayers
- Too soon to discuss why it happened
- Be outraged if someone asks if Tulsa was a great idea.
- Storm offstage

I shouldn't, but

Did anyone see Don jr pissed off at being banned for 12hrs from Twitter?

New(?) Lincoln Project Video, worth a watch

https://youtu.be/4TogbPPyQQM

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... obal-en-GB

Interesting read

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:40 pm So I'm going to guess that WH are dusting off the GOPs School Shooting press playbook, for Herman Cains death.

- Thoughts & Prayers
- Too soon to discuss why it happened
- Be outraged if someone asks if Tulsa was a great idea.
- Storm offstage

Trump has, with his usual lack of human sentiments, turned what any reasonable GOP President would be expected to deliver - thanks to his ally for service to the country, regret at the loss, sympathy to the family and a bit of a soundbite to say how this will galvanise efforts to combat Coronavirus - into just another Trump vs. Chinese Virus dribble.

I would wonder just how screwed up the man's psyche is, but he puts it out there on display for all to see. Has he ever managed to comment on anyone or anything without making it about him?

ASMO wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:35 pm https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... obal-en-GB

Interesting read

Mary better not take any long walks near knotted ropes in the future.

Biffer wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:42 pm Trump now calling for the election to be delayed. Lining himself up to refuse to give up the office

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-53597975

Just when you think stuff can't get any more farcical.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:56 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:40 pm So I'm going to guess that WH are dusting off the GOPs School Shooting press playbook, for Herman Cains death.

- Thoughts & Prayers
- Too soon to discuss why it happened
- Be outraged if someone asks if Tulsa was a great idea.
- Storm offstage

Trump has, with his usual lack of human sentiments, turned what any reasonable GOP President would be expected to deliver - thanks to his ally for service to the country, regret at the loss, sympathy to the family and a bit of a soundbite to say how this will galvanise efforts to combat Coronavirus - into just another Trump vs. Chinese Virus dribble.

I would wonder just how screwed up the man's psyche is, but he puts it out there on display for all to see. Has he ever managed to comment on anyone or anything without making it about him?

Never.


He's a modern version of the Sun King; the world revolves around him.

At least the Sun King threw decent parties.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:06 pm At least the Sun King threw decent parties.

Impotus Americanus knows all the best people; he relied on them to throw the party.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:19 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:06 pm At least the Sun King threw decent parties.

Impotus Americanus knows all the best people; he relied on them to throw the party.

Can someone who knows a bit more on amerkian politics than I confirm the following is accurate?

It could be true, but my understanding was that essentially the Electoral College was designed to ensure that the more populous states didn’t get to override the wishes of the less populous.

EDIT: If so, there are still plenty of insidious strings attached, such as not considering African-American or Native-Americans as part of the population.

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:40 am It could be true, but my understanding was that essentially the Electoral College was designed to ensure that the more populous states didn’t get to override the wishes of the less populous.

EDIT: If so, there are still plenty of insidious strings attached, such as not considering African-American or Native-Americans as part of the population.

That was my (distant and hazy) recollection - thanks

Hong Kong wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:02 am

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:40 am It could be true, but my understanding was that essentially the Electoral College was designed to ensure that the more populous states didn’t get to override the wishes of the less populous.

EDIT: If so, there are still plenty of insidious strings attached, such as not considering African-American or Native-Americans as part of the population.

That was my (distant and hazy) recollection - thanks

Well, don't take my word for it. That's all based on an audiobook I listened to (and didn't always fully understand) a couple of years ago.

To bring nuance to the discussion, the Electoral College system isn't as batshit crazy as it might seem. An age-old weakness in democracy is that it gives so much say to the populous areas, be they London, Auckland, New York etc., that the people in the less populated areas have all their concerns and issues disregarded. I can see how this could lead to disaster.

Of course, the Electoral College system has led to a massive, orange disaster in this case. But its designers weren't "dumb" or even perhaps that sinister in their motivations for it.

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:09 am

Hong Kong wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:02 am

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:40 am It could be true, but my understanding was that essentially the Electoral College was designed to ensure that the more populous states didn’t get to override the wishes of the less populous.

EDIT: If so, there are still plenty of insidious strings attached, such as not considering African-American or Native-Americans as part of the population.

That was my (distant and hazy) recollection - thanks

Well, don't take my word for it. That's all based on an audiobook I listened to (and didn't always fully understand) a couple of years ago.

To bring nuance to the discussion, the Electoral College system isn't as batshit crazy as it might seem. An age-old weakness in democracy is that it gives so much say to the populous areas, be they London, Auckland, New York etc., that the people in the less populated areas have all their concerns and issues disregarded. I can see how this could lead to disaster.

Of course, the Electoral College system has led to a massive, orange disaster in this case. But its designers weren't "dumb" or even perhaps that sinister in their motivations for it.

For sure but when it was created, it was a completely different USA.

And no for something completely different - please let this be true and happen

That's very good. Agreed that the Electoral College has caused the almighty clusterfuck the US is in now. But the threat of city folk blithely making a whole lot of decisions that will negatively affect people in the heartland still exists. I don't know how this could best be addressed. I'm not a political scientist.

I wouldn't blame the system on what's happening in the US. Perhaps blame education system but even then there are educated people on Trump's side.
There's really no way to check the power of a guy like Trump. He's openly corrupt and does it so often that people accept it. He refuses to acknowledge facts that eventually people tolerate it. Trump can only be checked if he acknowledges that his wrongdoing.

Those in his own party controlling the senate could check him if they wanted to. But it’s in their own interests not to - for the time-being.

Politics is a massively high earning career at the top end rather than a vocation, moral calling or whatever. And like most massively high earning careers, the shit floats to the top.

Sinkers wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:53 am Those in his own party controlling the senate could check him if they wanted to. But it’s in their own interests not to - for the time-being.

Politics is a massively high earning career at the top end rather than a vocation, moral calling or whatever. And like most massively high earning careers, the shit floats to the top.

They chose not to in the impeachment hearing and continue to ignore his corruption. It comes down to Trump himself. He's got rid of anyone who disagrees with him and replace them with puppete.They fear him. There's nothing in the system to stop a person like Trump.

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:09 am

Hong Kong wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:02 am

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:40 am It could be true, but my understanding was that essentially the Electoral College was designed to ensure that the more populous states didn’t get to override the wishes of the less populous.

EDIT: If so, there are still plenty of insidious strings attached, such as not considering African-American or Native-Americans as part of the population.

That was my (distant and hazy) recollection - thanks

Well, don't take my word for it. That's all based on an audiobook I listened to (and didn't always fully understand) a couple of years ago.

To bring nuance to the discussion, the Electoral College system isn't as batshit crazy as it might seem. An age-old weakness in democracy is that it gives so much say to the populous areas, be they London, Auckland, New York etc., that the people in the less populated areas have all their concerns and issues disregarded. I can see how this could lead to disaster.

Of course, the Electoral College system has led to a massive, orange disaster in this case. But its designers weren't "dumb" or even perhaps that sinister in their motivations for it.

The Electoral College is part of the great compromise. There was a philosophical dispute between those who believed that the constitution should create one nation divided into states, or a collection of free states that had a loose federal government.

One camp wanted the federal government to have equal numbers of representatives (and voting power) from each state, the other camp wanted each states population to determine their influence.

The compromise was that population determined the House seats, while in the senate each state got an equal number.

Each states EC total is made up of adding its senate and House seats. It was a sensible compromise at the time between people who disagreed about the fundamental nature of the new country being created.

These days the USA is more of a single country rather than a collection of states, so the Electoral College seems a bit silly. Made sense at the time though.

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:27 am

That's very good. Agreed that the Electoral College has caused the almighty clusterfuck the US is in now. But the threat of city folk blithely making a whole lot of decisions that will negatively affect people in the heartland still exists. I don't know how this could best be addressed. I'm not a political scientist.

They still have the Senate which weighs things heavily towards less populous states, and their state by state governance. Actually something the GOP have done a much better job about in the last 10-20 years is going after state level control, oftentimes Washington is little more than a talking shop with the real governing happening much more locally

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:09 am

Hong Kong wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:02 am

FujiKiwi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:40 am It could be true, but my understanding was that essentially the Electoral College was designed to ensure that the more populous states didn’t get to override the wishes of the less populous.

EDIT: If so, there are still plenty of insidious strings attached, such as not considering African-American or Native-Americans as part of the population.

That was my (distant and hazy) recollection - thanks

Well, don't take my word for it. That's all based on an audiobook I listened to (and didn't always fully understand) a couple of years ago.

To bring nuance to the discussion, the Electoral College system isn't as batshit crazy as it might seem. An age-old weakness in democracy is that it gives so much say to the populous areas, be they London, Auckland, New York etc., that the people in the less populated areas have all their concerns and issues disregarded. I can see how this could lead to disaster.

Of course, the Electoral College system has led to a massive, orange disaster in this case. But its designers weren't "dumb" or even perhaps that sinister in their motivations for it.

The federalist papers record the both arguments were true, as well as many others.

Ironically, it was thought that the EC would prevent someone of "low intrigue" from winning the presidency....

The EC is a much lesser problem than the gerrymandering and ridiculous levels of voter suppression.

The shit Trump's newly appointed Head of the US Postal Service (price $2m donation to Trump) is corruption, pure and simple.

Shut down sorting machines so it has to be done by hand. Banned overtime. And so on.

And all with one thing in mind; destroy the ability to vote by post.

And over here, the latest list of peers. Straight out of the playbook of "break democracy to rebuild it our way" that some seriously horrible people are pushing.

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:05 am The shit Trump's newly appointed Head of the US Postal Service (price $2m donation to Trump) is corruption, pure and simple.

Shut down sorting machines so it has to be done by hand. Banned overtime. And so on.

And all with one thing in mind; destroy the ability to vote by post.

And over here, the latest list of peers. Straight out of the playbook of "break democracy to rebuild it our way" that some seriously horrible people are pushing.

If the DNC sweeps the elections in November, I hope they fill the Prisons with these crooks.

Then with control of the legislator they need to put in place, checks on the unbridled power that made it possible for this level of corruption.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:03 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:05 am The shit Trump's newly appointed Head of the US Postal Service (price $2m donation to Trump) is corruption, pure and simple.

Shut down sorting machines so it has to be done by hand. Banned overtime. And so on.

And all with one thing in mind; destroy the ability to vote by post.

And over here, the latest list of peers. Straight out of the playbook of "break democracy to rebuild it our way" that some seriously horrible people are pushing.

If the DNC sweeps the elections in November, I hope they fill the Prisons with these crooks.

Then with control of the legislator they need to put in place, checks on the unbridled power that made it possible for this level of corruption.

That might be a precursor to an actual conflict.
I believe a conflict along the lines of Spanish civil war is becoming increasingly likely.

Republicans won the election and were more numerous but the nationalists were better armed and organised.
Unless there's serious de-escalation, that's where this could be headed.

Benjamin Franklin will be spinning in his grave.

Ata Rangi wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:46 pm Benjamin Franklin will be spinning in his grave.

Presumably at 60Hz

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:19 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:03 pm

Hal Jordan wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:05 am The shit Trump's newly appointed Head of the US Postal Service (price $2m donation to Trump) is corruption, pure and simple.

Shut down sorting machines so it has to be done by hand. Banned overtime. And so on.

And all with one thing in mind; destroy the ability to vote by post.

And over here, the latest list of peers. Straight out of the playbook of "break democracy to rebuild it our way" that some seriously horrible people are pushing.

If the DNC sweeps the elections in November, I hope they fill the Prisons with these crooks.

Then with control of the legislator they need to put in place, checks on the unbridled power that made it possible for this level of corruption.

That might be a precursor to an actual conflict.
I believe a conflict along the lines of Spanish civil war is becoming increasingly likely.

Republicans won the election and were more numerous but the nationalists were better armed and organised.
Unless there's serious de-escalation, that's where this could be headed.

It does seem to be heading that way - ominously gun sales in the US have been triple the average since COVID19. Apparently half of the sales have been to first time buyers.

Hugo wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:57 pm

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:19 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:03 pm


If the DNC sweeps the elections in November, I hope they fill the Prisons with these crooks.

Then with control of the legislator they need to put in place, checks on the unbridled power that made it possible for this level of corruption.

That might be a precursor to an actual conflict.
I believe a conflict along the lines of Spanish civil war is becoming increasingly likely.

Republicans won the election and were more numerous but the nationalists were better armed and organised.
Unless there's serious de-escalation, that's where this could be headed.

It does seem to be heading that way - ominously gun sales in the US have been triple the average since COVID19. Apparently half of the sales have been to first time buyers.

Surely the military would be still too strong? Or are they going to split too?

CrazyIslander wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:12 pm

Hugo wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:57 pm

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:19 pm

That might be a precursor to an actual conflict.
I believe a conflict along the lines of Spanish civil war is becoming increasingly likely.

Republicans won the election and were more numerous but the nationalists were better armed and organised.
Unless there's serious de-escalation, that's where this could be headed.

It does seem to be heading that way - ominously gun sales in the US have been triple the average since COVID19. Apparently half of the sales have been to first time buyers.

Surely the military would be still too strong? Or are they going to split too?

The Military, (excluding the States National Guards), command authority comes from the President. If there's no POTUS, there's a difficult hole to bridge.

It would also be unprecedented, to say the least; to deploy Federally controlled Soldiers to the States, without the States requesting them.