NPR

What a dick

Didn't spot this yesterday

CHISINAU, Feb 22 (Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin revoked on Tuesday a 2012 decree that in part underpinned Moldova's sovereignty in resolving the future of the Transdniestria region - a Moscow-backed separatist region which borders Ukraine and where Russia keeps troops.

The decree, which included a Moldova component, outlined Russia's foreign policy 11 years ago which assumed Moscow's closer relations with the European Union and the United States.

The order revoking the 2012 document was published on the Kremlin's website and states that the decision was taken to "ensure the national interests of Russia in connection with the profound changes taking place in international relations".

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pu ... 023-02-22/

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:10 am

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 8:45 am How on earth do they even keep Transnistria supplied?

Seems like it's mostly through third countries

The rotation of the Russian military in unrecognized Transnistria takes place under the guise of tourists entering Moldova through European countries. The Russian Federation does not currently supply weapons to the so-called “PMR”, but they still deliver spare parts for repair and maintenance.

https://odessa-journal.com/oleg-zhdanov ... -supplied/

So a drain on Russian resources for precious little gain?
Sounds about right.

An article about Bulgarian ammo supply. Old news but adds some context:

https://us.yahoo.com/news/bulgarian-fac ... 33433.html

And the 8th Russian Oligarch to die in "mysterious circumstances"

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:14 pm And the 8th Russian Oligarch to die in "mysterious circumstances"

Nah, I'm sure it was just your ordinary every day sudden death,

The paramedics responded & found that the individual had tragically died in an ill judged tictok challenge, as he was discovered inside his dish washer, with cable tied wrists & ankles, a plastic bag over his head, & two .22 rounds in his head.

...

happens every week.

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:31 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:14 pm And the 8th Russian Oligarch to die in "mysterious circumstances"

Nah, I'm sure it was just your ordinary every day sudden death,

The paramedics responded & found that the individual had tragically died in an ill judged tictok challenge, as he was discovered inside his dish washer, with cable tied wrists & ankles, a plastic bag over his head, & two .22 rounds in his head.

...

happens every week.

Tea or window ...

laurent wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:46 pm

fishfoodie wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:31 pm

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:14 pm And the 8th Russian Oligarch to die in "mysterious circumstances"

Nah, I'm sure it was just your ordinary every day sudden death,

The paramedics responded & found that the individual had tragically died in an ill judged tictok challenge, as he was discovered inside his dish washer, with cable tied wrists & ankles, a plastic bag over his head, & two .22 rounds in his head.

...

happens every week.

Tea or window ...

FpRd_-3WYAAJLSP.jpeg

You're such a killjoy !

Aren't FSB hitmen allowed to express themselves a little ?

Any idiot can defenestrate someone; they should be able to use some new, more interesting methods; it's not like they have to worry about the Police deciding there's anything suspicious, & starting a proper investigation or anything !

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:38 am What a dick

One of the ways I bore and annoy Ms MungoSpouse is by responding to 'Every death is a tragedy' with 'No, every death is a necessity; it's the timing that's the problem. Some people live too long; others, not long enough.'. That deadshit Orban clearly falls in the former category.

And speaking of fall, what a mighty plummet by Hungary given it was a constituent part of a great power - the Austro-Hungarian Empire - within the (notional) living memory of the world's oldest people. Nek minit, it has a population of about 38%, and a GDP (PPP) per capita of maybe 68%, of Straya's.

Not a country about which the world at large a fuck must be forced to give.

Hungarian ultra-nationalism is a very weird place.

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:10 am

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 7:50 am Hungarian ultra-nationalism is a very weird place.

They were denuded of so much land and people post WW1 its not that surprising. They went from a bona fide world power to a sleepy back water for decades

Well The empire was a complete basket case though. (they could not beat Serbia on their own).

laurent wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:34 am

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:10 am

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 7:50 am Hungarian ultra-nationalism is a very weird place.

They were denuded of so much land and people post WW1 its not that surprising. They went from a bona fide world power to a sleepy back water for decades

Well The empire was a complete basket case though. (they could not beat Serbia on their own).

It was by the early C20th. Was a dominant power some time before that though.

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 10:50 am

laurent wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:34 am

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:10 am

They were denuded of so much land and people post WW1 its not that surprising. They went from a bona fide world power to a sleepy back water for decades

Well The empire was a complete basket case though. (they could not beat Serbia on their own).

It was by the early C20th. Was a dominant power some time before that though.

Not really, they could bully the Smaller nations but They got taken to the cleaners by the French and Prussians during the 19th century.

If Medvedev was ever a sane and rational human being, there is ever decreasing sign of it. Yet many "neutrals" still expect us to negotiate a peace now with these arseholes?

Russia's Medvedev floats idea of pushing back Poland's borders
Fri, February 24, 2023 at 9:14 AM GMT

LONDON (Reuters) - Former Russian president Dmitry Medvedev said on Friday that the only way for Moscow to ensure a lasting peace with Ukraine was to push back the borders of hostile states as far as possible, even if that meant the frontiers of NATO member Poland.

Medvedev, who is now deputy chairman of Russia's Security Council, made the comments in a message on his Telegram account exactly a year after Russia sent tens of thousands of troops into Ukraine in what it called a "special military operation" to protect Russian speakers and ensure its own security.

Ukraine says it is defending itself from an unprovoked colonial-style war of aggression and has vowed to retake all of its own territory by force, including Crimea, which Russia annexed in 2014.

Medvedev, an ally of President Vladimir Putin, forecast on Friday that Russia would be victorious and that some kind of loose agreement would eventually end the fighting.

"Victory will be achieved. We all want it to happen as soon as possible. And that day will come," said Medvedev. He predicted that tough negotiations with Ukraine and the West would follow that would culminate in "some kind of agreement."

But he said that deal would lack what he called "fundamental agreements on real borders" and not amount to an over-arching European security pact, making it vital for Russia to extend its own borders now.

"That is why it is so important to achieve all the goals of the special military operation. To push back the borders that threaten our country as far as possible, even if they are the borders of Poland," said Medvedev.

Poland shares long eastern borders with Ukraine and with Russia's ally Belarus, and a frontier of some 200 km (125 miles) in its northeastern corner with the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad.

Any encroachment on Poland's borders would bring Russia for the first time into direct conflict with NATO. U.S. President Joe Biden pledged in a speech in Warsaw this week to defend "every inch" of NATO territory if it was attacked.

Medvedev, 57, has adopted an increasingly hawkish tone and made a series of outspoken interventions since the war began with some political analysts suggesting he is one of the people that Putin might one day consider as a successor.

https://news.yahoo.com/russias-medvedev ... Du9g1o2dFG

laurent wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 12:55 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 10:50 am

laurent wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:34 am
Well The empire was a complete basket case though. (they could not beat Serbia on their own).

It was by the early C20th. Was a dominant power some time before that though.

Not really, they could bully the Smaller nations but They got taken to the cleaners by the French and Prussians during the 19th century.

Bullying smaller nations is quite a good description of an Empire.

But fair enough, dominant is the wrong word. They were just another bullying European imperial power.

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 1:01 pm

laurent wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 12:55 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 10:50 am

It was by the early C20th. Was a dominant power some time before that though.

Not really, they could bully the Smaller nations but They got taken to the cleaners by the French and Prussians during the 19th century.

Bullying smaller nations is quite a good description of an Empire.

But fair enough, dominant is the wrong word. They were just another bullying European imperial power.

India and many of the South American countries are hardly small.

Thought I would look at the scores on the 1 year mark. All from Oryx's list and visually confirmed (photos/videos), with evidence for each item in the count. Personally think this is the most reliable count and over time it becomes more accurate. Official numbers from the Ukrainian side are somewhat accurate, but rely on battlefield reports, so their numbers on Russian aircraft shot down just look way out (because a Ukrainian operator may think they've shot down something looking at a 1980s Soviet AA system's screen, when they have not).

It's always been the case Ukraine has to kill as many Russians as possible as fast as possible, if they cannot win on attrition then they cannot win. Anything that has a 1:1 kill ratio means Ukraine is losing, because of how much equipment Russia has (it may be shit, but they have it). 1:2 in Ukraine's favour gets them into the fight. 1:4 in Ukraine's favour or better is Ukraine winning.

On the land Ukraine are definitely in it and have destroyed a quantity equal to roughly what Russia went in with this time last year, whilst Ukraine haven't lost anything like that. Ukraine is losing at sea and in the air. The air war could end up being critical, rumours of the Russians deploying their air force in a huge way in the coming months.


Russian losses - 9393, of which: destroyed: 5965, damaged: 269, abandoned: 374, captured: 2785

Tanks (1772, of which destroyed: 1043, damaged: 86, abandoned: 95, captured: 548)
Armoured Fighting Vehicles (793, of which destroyed: 492, damaged: 13, abandoned: 28, captured: 260)
Infantry Fighting Vehicles (2118, of which destroyed: 1343, damaged: 63, abandoned: 116, captured: 596)
Armoured Personnel Carriers (298, of which destroyed: 184, damaged: 5, abandoned: 12, captured: 97)
Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) Vehicles (44, of which destroyed: 29, damaged: 4, abandoned: 1, captured: 10)
Infantry Mobility Vehicles (180, of which destroyed: 124, damaged: 4, abandoned: 1, captured: 51)
Command Posts And Communications Stations (233, of which destroyed: 142, abandoned: 3, captured: 88)
Engineering Vehicles And Equipment (283, of which destroyed: 125, damaged: 5, abandoned: 41, captured: 112)
Self-Propelled Anti-Tank Missile Systems (38, of which destroyed: 14, abandoned: 4, captured: 20)
Artillery Support Vehicles And Equipment (91, of which destroyed: 40, abandoned: 2, captured: 49)
Towed Artillery (176, of which destroyed: 70, damaged: 8, abandoned: 5, captured: 93)
Self-Propelled Artillery (348, of which destroyed: 221, damaged: 15, abandoned: 7, captured: 105)
Multiple Rocket Launchers (177, of which destroyed: 117, damaged: 3, abandoned: 2, captured: 55)
Anti-Aircraft Guns (17, of which destroyed: 3, captured: 14)
Self-Propelled Anti-Aircraft Guns (23, of which destroyed: 12, abandoned: 3, captured: 8)
Surface-To-Air Missile Systems (95, of which destroyed: 62, damaged: 5, abandoned: 5, captured: 23)
Radars (23, of which destroyed: 13, damaged: 1, captured: 9)
Jammers And Deception Systems (25, of which destroyed: 16, damaged: 2, captured: 7)
Aircraft (74, of which destroyed: 67, damaged: 7)
Helicopters (78, of which destroyed: 67, damaged: 10, captured: 1)
Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicles (7, of which destroyed: 6, captured: 1)
Reconnaissance Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (186, of which destroyed: 96, captured: 90)
Naval Ships (12, of which destroyed: 8, damaged: 4)
Trucks, Vehicles and Jeeps (2302, of which destroyed: 1671, damaged: 35, abandoned: 49, captured: 547)


Ukrainian losses - 3002, of which: destroyed: 1905, damaged: 143, abandoned: 76, captured: 878

Tanks (468, of which destroyed: 278, damaged: 30, abandoned: 17, captured: 143)
Armoured Fighting Vehicles (266, of which destroyed: 178, damaged: 2, abandoned: 5, captured: 81)
Infantry Fighting Vehicles (493, of which destroyed: 346, damaged: 12, abandoned: 27, captured: 108)
Armoured Personnel Carriers (226, of which destroyed: 123, damaged: 10, abandoned: 8, captured: 85)
Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) Vehicles (42, of which destroyed: 27, damaged: 7, abandoned: 3, captured: 5)
Infantry Mobility Vehicles (288, of which destroyed: 152, damaged: 15, abandoned: 3, captured: 118)
Command Posts And Communications Stations (9, of which destroyed: 6, captured: 3)
Engineering Vehicles And Equipment (46, of which destroyed: 21, damaged: 2, captured: 23)
Self-Propelled Anti-Tank Missile Systems (21, of which destroyed: 8, abandoned: 1, captured: 12)
Artillery Support Vehicles And Equipment (22, of which destroyed: 10, captured: 12)
Towed Artillery (103, of which destroyed: 63, damaged: 19, abandoned: 3, captured: 18)
Self-Propelled Artillery (116, of which destroyed: 71, damaged: 18, captured: 27)
Multiple Rocket Launchers (39, of which destroyed: 28, damaged: 3, captured: 8)
Anti-Aircraft Guns (4, of which captured: 4)
Self-Propelled Anti-Aircraft Guns (5, of which destroyed: 1, damaged: 1, captured: 3)
Surface-To-Air Missile Systems (87, of which destroyed: 76, damaged: 3, abandoned: 1, captured: 7)
Radars And Communications Equipment (51, of which destroyed: 34, damaged: 5, abandoned: 1 captured: 11)
Jammers And Deception Systems (1, of which captured: 1)
Aircraft (59, of which destroyed: 58, captured: 1)
Helicopters (30, of which destroyed: 26, damaged: 1, captured: 3)
Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicles (17, of which destroyed: 17)
Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (66, of which destroyed: 35, captured: 31)
Naval Ships (25, of which destroyed: 8, damaged: 1, captured: 16)
Trucks, Vehicles and Jeeps (517, of which destroyed: 338, damaged: 14, abandoned: 7, captured: 158)

tabascoboy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 12:59 pm If Medvedev was ever a sane and rational human being, there is ever decreasing sign of it. Yet many "neutrals" still expect us to negotiate a peace now with these arseholes?

Russia's Medvedev floats idea of pushing back Poland's borders
Fri, February 24, 2023 at 9:14 AM GMT

LONDON (Reuters) - Former Russian president Dmitry Medvedev said on Friday that the only way for Moscow to ensure a lasting peace with Ukraine was to push back the borders of hostile states as far as possible, even if that meant the frontiers of NATO member Poland.

Medvedev, who is now deputy chairman of Russia's Security Council, made the comments in a message on his Telegram account exactly a year after Russia sent tens of thousands of troops into Ukraine in what it called a "special military operation" to protect Russian speakers and ensure its own security.

Ukraine says it is defending itself from an unprovoked colonial-style war of aggression and has vowed to retake all of its own territory by force, including Crimea, which Russia annexed in 2014.

Medvedev, an ally of President Vladimir Putin, forecast on Friday that Russia would be victorious and that some kind of loose agreement would eventually end the fighting.

"Victory will be achieved. We all want it to happen as soon as possible. And that day will come," said Medvedev. He predicted that tough negotiations with Ukraine and the West would follow that would culminate in "some kind of agreement."

But he said that deal would lack what he called "fundamental agreements on real borders" and not amount to an over-arching European security pact, making it vital for Russia to extend its own borders now.

"That is why it is so important to achieve all the goals of the special military operation. To push back the borders that threaten our country as far as possible, even if they are the borders of Poland," said Medvedev.

Poland shares long eastern borders with Ukraine and with Russia's ally Belarus, and a frontier of some 200 km (125 miles) in its northeastern corner with the Russian exclave of Kaliningrad.

Any encroachment on Poland's borders would bring Russia for the first time into direct conflict with NATO. U.S. President Joe Biden pledged in a speech in Warsaw this week to defend "every inch" of NATO territory if it was attacked.

Medvedev, 57, has adopted an increasingly hawkish tone and made a series of outspoken interventions since the war began with some political analysts suggesting he is one of the people that Putin might one day consider as a successor.

https://news.yahoo.com/russias-medvedev ... Du9g1o2dFG

Medvedev is a raging alcoholic. He's a running joke among the Russian political elite.

Sweden will transfer 10 Stridsvagn 122s (Leopard 2A5s) to Ukraine and Spain has increased the number of 2A4s it will transfer from 6 to 10. Total now comes to 63.

Germany will send 18 Leopard 2A6 tanks instead of 14 to form together with Portugal (3 Leopard 2A6) and Sweden (10 Strv 122) 1 tank battalion of 31 A6 level tanks.

Canada has pledged another 4 Leopard 2A4s. Total now stands at 71.

I don't remember seeing this video at the time, gives a clear sense of the size of the first Russian airborne wave that went into Antonov Airport. The Battle of Antonov Airport and the (early part of the) Battle of Hostomel in the first days were crucial for the whole war. If Russia had immediately secured a Kyiv air bridge they may have been able to quickly take Kyiv.

By the end of the first day all the Russian airborne troops in those Mi-8 transports were either dead or had been driven back into the woods around Hostomel, Russian aircraft carrying 1000s of troops couldn't land, and the Russia column rushing towards Antonov airport was being taken apart in Hostomel. Russia took the airport by the end of day two, but it was unusable through artillery strikes by then and they had lost the element of surprise.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:51 pm

I don't remember seeing this video at the time, gives a clear sense of the size of the first Russian airborne wave that went into Antonov Airport. The Battle of Antonov Airport and the (early part of the) Battle of Hostomel in the first days were crucial for the whole war. If Russia had immediately secured a Kyiv air bridge they may have been able to quickly take Kyiv.

By the end of the first day all the Russian airborne troops in those Mi-8 transports were either dead or had been driven back into the woods around Hostomel, Russian aircraft carrying 1000s of troops couldn't land, and the Russia column rushing towards Antonov airport was being taken apart in Hostomel. Russia took the airport by the end of day two, but it was unusable through artillery strikes by then and they had lost the element of surprise.

I counted 24 helicopters. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if they're attack only or carrying troops, anyone enlighten me? And if troops how many per helicopter? Presumably this wasn't the only wave, and most of what was I evolved there was destroyed / killed - and these were likely premium weapons and well trained special forces?

Hellraiser wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:44 pm Canada has pledged another 4 Leopard 2A4s. Total now stands at 71.

I wondered what else we've sent, and see that a whole bunch of 8-wheeled APCs have been working their way over, along with smaller armoured vehicles according to this story the other day:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ukrainia ... -1.6754475

Niegs wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 11:21 pm

Hellraiser wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:44 pm Canada has pledged another 4 Leopard 2A4s. Total now stands at 71.

I wondered what else we've sent, and see that a whole bunch of 8-wheeled APCs have been working their way over, along with smaller armoured vehicles according to this story the other day:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ukrainia ... -1.6754475

That's an excellent story Niegs.

_Os_ wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:51 pm

I don't remember seeing this video at the time, gives a clear sense of the size of the first Russian airborne wave that went into Antonov Airport. The Battle of Antonov Airport and the (early part of the) Battle of Hostomel in the first days were crucial for the whole war. If Russia had immediately secured a Kyiv air bridge they may have been able to quickly take Kyiv.

By the end of the first day all the Russian airborne troops in those Mi-8 transports were either dead or had been driven back into the woods around Hostomel, Russian aircraft carrying 1000s of troops couldn't land, and the Russia column rushing towards Antonov airport was being taken apart in Hostomel. Russia took the airport by the end of day two, but it was unusable through artillery strikes by then and they had lost the element of surprise.

Yep, and that wasn't even the full assault group - they lost a bunch of helicopters on the way in, including their commander, one of the issues the Russians had with the assault. The Ukrainians had been forewarned by the US and prepared for it.

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 10:50 am

laurent wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:34 am

EnergiseR2 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:10 am

They were denuded of so much land and people post WW1 its not that surprising. They went from a bona fide world power to a sleepy back water for decades

Well The empire was a complete basket case though. (they could not beat Serbia on their own).

It was by the early C20th. Was a dominant power some time before that though.

There's a reason the Austrians came first in the Austro-Hungarian empire.

Nice video showing the options, & capabilities of the 90x Strykers being sent to Ukraine, in addition to the 50x Bradleys.

Everyone is being cagey about which of the 18x variants will go to Ukraine, because this would give away what the plan is for using them; but a combination of scout/mine-clearing, with AA, & other options, when paired with the MTBs, & Bradleys will make for one hell of an armored fist !

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 11:08 pm

_Os_ wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:51 pm

I don't remember seeing this video at the time, gives a clear sense of the size of the first Russian airborne wave that went into Antonov Airport. The Battle of Antonov Airport and the (early part of the) Battle of Hostomel in the first days were crucial for the whole war. If Russia had immediately secured a Kyiv air bridge they may have been able to quickly take Kyiv.

By the end of the first day all the Russian airborne troops in those Mi-8 transports were either dead or had been driven back into the woods around Hostomel, Russian aircraft carrying 1000s of troops couldn't land, and the Russia column rushing towards Antonov airport was being taken apart in Hostomel. Russia took the airport by the end of day two, but it was unusable through artillery strikes by then and they had lost the element of surprise.

I counted 24 helicopters. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if they're attack only or carrying troops, anyone enlighten me? And if troops how many per helicopter? Presumably this wasn't the only wave, and most of what was I evolved there was destroyed / killed - and these were likely premium weapons and well trained special forces?

It was a mix of mostly Mi-8s which have a capacity of about 20 men (with seats removed and gear on), with some Ka-52 attack helicopters escorting them (no transport capacity). 30-ish helicopters were used, but I had never seen a video showing them in a row like that, could be them returning and minus some helicopters (at least one Ka-52 was forced to land and two Mi-8s were shot down). The first Russian wave had 150-350 elite VDV (airborne/paratroopers), they've picked up a reputation for being shit mostly because of the battles around Hostomel where a lot were wiped out (plenty of videos of piles of their bodies in the streets and burnt vehicles). But that's not really the whole story I don't think, Russian airborne gave Ukraine some trouble in Kherson.

The initial Ukrainian defence was 300 National Guard conscripts, they did okay, put up some air defence. Lots of rapid reaction units were rushed there, Ukrainian special forces and a whole odd mix of stuff. Some interesting stories about the Georgian Legion running over Russians with their vehicles. There were definitely US and UK volunteers there also, there's some audio of them getting ready to face the first wave and an interview with the UK guy that fought there. The Wiki page is quite good for this battle:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Antonov_Airport

Some more famous video from this battle:

I find this fella often interesting to listen to

_Os_ wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 12:20 am

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 11:08 pm

_Os_ wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:51 pm

I don't remember seeing this video at the time, gives a clear sense of the size of the first Russian airborne wave that went into Antonov Airport. The Battle of Antonov Airport and the (early part of the) Battle of Hostomel in the first days were crucial for the whole war. If Russia had immediately secured a Kyiv air bridge they may have been able to quickly take Kyiv.

By the end of the first day all the Russian airborne troops in those Mi-8 transports were either dead or had been driven back into the woods around Hostomel, Russian aircraft carrying 1000s of troops couldn't land, and the Russia column rushing towards Antonov airport was being taken apart in Hostomel. Russia took the airport by the end of day two, but it was unusable through artillery strikes by then and they had lost the element of surprise.

I counted 24 helicopters. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if they're attack only or carrying troops, anyone enlighten me? And if troops how many per helicopter? Presumably this wasn't the only wave, and most of what was I evolved there was destroyed / killed - and these were likely premium weapons and well trained special forces?

It was a mix of mostly Mi-8s which have a capacity of about 20 men (with seats removed and gear on), with some Ka-52 attack helicopters escorting them (no transport capacity). 30-ish helicopters were used, but I had never seen a video showing them in a row like that, could be them returning and minus some helicopters (at least one Ka-52 was forced to land and two Mi-8s were shot down). The first Russian wave had 150-350 elite VDV (airborne/paratroopers), they've picked up a reputation for being shit mostly because of the battles around Hostomel where a lot were wiped out (plenty of videos of piles of their bodies in the streets and burnt vehicles). But that's not really the whole story I don't think, Russian airborne gave Ukraine some trouble in Kherson.

The initial Ukrainian defence was 300 National Guard conscripts, they did okay, put up some air defence. Lots of rapid reaction units were rushed there, Ukrainian special forces and a whole odd mix of stuff. Some interesting stories about the Georgian Legion running over Russians with their vehicles. There were definitely US and UK volunteers there also, there's some audio of them getting ready to face the first wave and an interview with the UK guy that fought there. The Wiki page is quite good for this battle:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Antonov_Airport

Some more famous video from this battle:

Is it not the case that they are elite but badly misused in Ukraine?

Flockwitt wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 11:49 pm Yep, and that wasn't even the full assault group - they lost a bunch of helicopters on the way in, including their commander, one of the issues the Russians had with the assault. The Ukrainians had been forewarned by the US and prepared for it.

Yes it was a large attack, Russia claims the second wave was 200 helicopters (probably bullshit, but 50 or 100 is still large). Ukraine had prepared but it was still just one normal garrison and some entrenchments, the rapid reaction force was strong though. Could've gone very differently and then the whole war looks different, probably lower quality Western support if Kyiv fell, very difficult to win Kyiv back if Russia took it and stacked forces there, probable outcome would be a very bad peace deal for Ukraine (and the filtration camps and mass war crimes inflicted on Kyiv's large population ... Kyiv would've been destroyed).

Uncle fester wrote: ↑Sat Feb 25, 2023 8:39 am Is it not the case that they are elite but badly misused in Ukraine?

Sounds right to me. There was some analysis early on that they were show ponies and more of a propaganda tool, but that hasn't stood up to what we've seen since. They just got used in crazy frontal assaults against prepared defences early on. A lot of Russia's best troops died in the opening weeks taking on untrained Ukrainians in prepared positions.

Biffer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 11:08 pm

_Os_ wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:51 pm

I don't remember seeing this video at the time, gives a clear sense of the size of the first Russian airborne wave that went into Antonov Airport. The Battle of Antonov Airport and the (early part of the) Battle of Hostomel in the first days were crucial for the whole war. If Russia had immediately secured a Kyiv air bridge they may have been able to quickly take Kyiv.

By the end of the first day all the Russian airborne troops in those Mi-8 transports were either dead or had been driven back into the woods around Hostomel, Russian aircraft carrying 1000s of troops couldn't land, and the Russia column rushing towards Antonov airport was being taken apart in Hostomel. Russia took the airport by the end of day two, but it was unusable through artillery strikes by then and they had lost the element of surprise.

I counted 24 helicopters. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if they're attack only or carrying troops, anyone enlighten me? And if troops how many per helicopter? Presumably this wasn't the only wave, and most of what was I evolved there was destroyed / killed - and these were likely premium weapons and well trained special forces?

The carry capacity of Mi-17s is 24 troops, excluding crew. If all 24 were Mi-17 transports you'd be looking at almost 600 paratroopers. Reports after the battle were that the VDV suffered over 400 KIA.